Sanders supporters should stop trying to invoke Martin Luther King's legacy on DU...

[Bread and Circus]

First off, it is just embarrassing. Second, it does no good and will have no effect anywhere outside of DU. Third, the effect on DU is likely to backfire and just plays into the progressive whites as soft on racism frame. How that third item ever became a thing on DU I will never know but there it is.

This whole forum board has been gummed up with racial tension but without talking racial issues and sadly, I think that is a feature not a bug.

What is also kind of crazy is how the Orwellian conflation of 1960's white moderates with 2010's white progressives has become a bludgeon of the Clinton crew here on DU. Rovian to say the least.

If Clinton can do this (excerpted from wiki):

===

Around the same time, Hillary Clinton discussed Martin Luther King, Jr. and PresidentLyndon Johnson in an interview for Fox News. She stated that, "I would point to the fact that that Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, when he was able to get through Congress something that President Kennedy was hopeful to do, the President before had not even tried, but it took a president to get it done. That dream became a reality, the power of that dream became a real in people's lives because we had a president who said we are going to do it, and actually got it accomplished."[124] Some African-American leaders took this statement as a denigration of the accomplishments of King and the largerAmerican civil rights movement.[123] Hillary Clinton blamed Obama for the controversy, claiming his campaign had fanned the flames, a charge which Obama dismissed as "ludicrous".[123] Shortly before, and during, a January 15 Democratic debate in Nevada, Clinton and Obama declared a truce on the matter, with both making reconciliatory statements about race, gender, and each other.[125] However, there was concern that Clinton's support among some African Americans may have been damaged,[125] with SUNY Albany's Debra Dickerson stating "The Clintons have to do something dramatic and symbolic to win back the trust of many African-Americans."[125]

===

And basically walk away from it while white progressives are somehow blamed for the oppression of minorities then you know this discussion isn't about right or wrong, truth or untruth. This is just about politics as usual and you can't win.

Addtionally I think it's pretty cool Killer Mike endorsed Sanders. He seems like an astute intelligent guy but it is not a game changer by any means. The momentum shift in the AA electorate is not going to come from a celebrity endorsement or two. It's fun to talk about and re-affirming but keep it in perspective.

Let's be honest, if you look at the factors that almost elected Clinton in 2008, they are all still there. The Democratic Party is a lot more moderate than you think and this is even true (? maybe more true according to certain reasearch) of minorities and low education low SES whites in the Democratic Party.

Sanders voters, truly liberal and progressive voters, at best represent a solid 1/4 to 1/3 of the Party and that's about it. When was the last time we nominated a real non-establishement non-status quo candidate? That's what we thought we were getting with Obama but that is obviously not true. This time is not going to be different.

Sanders chance of winning is very low. Not zero, but barring a major legal issue by Clinton (not even sure that would make a difference), Sanders is not going to win.

That doesn't mean we need to give up. Sanders has accomplished most of what he could accomplish, he has moved the message to the left, has kept the Clinton machine a bit more accountable, and has shown a far left candidate can raise a serious amount of money. There is a purpose for the Sanders campaign that is useful and healthy for the Democratic Party.

[daleanime]

1. Remember, you want it short and punchy......

'Stop saying good things about Bernie.'


My donation to the Hillary campaign, no charge.

[HooptieWagon]

2. Clinton supporters are welcome to invoke Barry Goldwater.

That's who Hillary was supporting at the time Sanders was active in the Civil Rights movement.

[onehandle]

7. When she was a kid in college and could not vote.

By the time of her first vote she became a Democrat. She was a 'Republican' because her family were Republicans.

Additionally at that time Republicans were not the Republicans of today.

Right when she became a Democrat, the roles of the parties were reversing.

If she had been a Democrat in her first year of college, she might have been a conservative racist or a progressive.

Senator Sanders was a fully formed adult at the time. Good for him and his history.

Before the 'Not Hillary' Party settled for Senator Sanders, they were begging Elizabeth Warren. Who was a Republican well into her 40s, after the Republican party was taken over by conservative racists.

Labeling Hillary a 'Goldwater Girl' is pointless and will accomplish nothing for the 'Not Hillary' Party.

[demwing]

9. It's Hillary that started that label, talk to her

Hillary Clinton ("Living History," page 21): I was also an active Young Republican and, later, a Goldwater girl, right down to my cowgirl outfit and straw cowboy hat emblazoned with the slogan "AuH20." … I liked Senator Goldwater because he was a rugged individualist who swam against the political tide.

https://books.google.com/books?id=H78s9ZbLXCIC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

[onehandle]

10. Exactly missing the point. nt

[SidDithers]

13. Hillary's been a Democrat for almost 50 years...

Bernie's been a Democrat for about 15 minutes.

Sid

[Eric J in MN]

18. Bernie Sanders has admired MLK since at least 1963.

His first trip to DC was to hear MLK that year.

[Number23]

22. So.. that makes the endlessly stupid comparison to MLK okay?

As well as the ghoulish "phantom" endorsements from this great man?

[Eric J in MN]

23. I've never written that MLK would endorse Sanders.

But I think it's fine to discuss the influence of MLK, FDR, and others on Bernie Sanders.

[Number23]

25. I agree with you 100% on that and no one has suggested otherwise

Discussing their influence on anyone is fine. But pretending that MLK would endorse any one candidate is ignorant and offensive.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

3. Are people still bothering?

Other than ironically? Everyone here already knows that Bernie is the candidate with the most political 'MLK DNA' in his policies and goals, so I can't imagine most folks are still bringing it up other than to irritate Hillary supporters as Bernie starts to cut into voter blocks Hillary thought she had locked down and was counting on to be the way she stopped him from passing her up.

[cantbeserious]

4. Riddle Me This - Who Are You To Tell This Citizen Whom To Invoke

eom

[Duckhunter935]

5. Nope

[ucrdem]

6. It appears that Sanders did *NOT* march with MLK Jr. in 1963,

and suggesting that he did is "swift boating," per a busy Bernie supporter:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251846817#post138

So a strange campaign just got stranger.

[aikoaiko]

8. Bernie would be polling like OMalley if we STFU like so many advise

[seabeyond]

11. One pretty afternoon in DC 250K people gathered to march. Sanders own words. He was way in the back.

That is it on the MLK connection.

[ucrdem]

12. That's exactly what he claims in his own video.

So you're 100% right.

p.s. Happy TG sea!

[seabeyond]

14. Happy Turkey Day, right back at you. Family that are totally Apolitical this year, lol. Nt

[ucrdem]

15. Better keep the TV on...

[AgingAmerican]

16. Try as they might, Hillary supporters can't extinguish MLKs legacy

nt

[Robbins]

17. I get tired of having to say this

there is no message to the left

Clinton Is corporatist and neocon.

she has moved to right to attack bernie on taxes.the idea she can be moved anywhere to left is totally bullcrap.

Clinton as nominee means bernie,liberals,and progressives have lost.

the idea Clinton was moved to left by bernie running is total bullcrap.

If clinton wins primaries,which i refuse to concede,get prepared to hear words President Trump From 2017 to 2021

Clinton is republican lite on war
national security state
militazian of police
wall street
trade

[Eric J in MN]

19. Whom are you're referring to as "1960's white moderates"?

Are you calling Bernie Sanders in the 1960s a "white moderate"?

[Bread and Circus]

21. I think you have to go back to MLK's statements on white moderates

Whom I think he perceived as holding civil rights movements back. At least that is my take.

No, I don't think Sanders is or was a moderate then or now. I also think his base are white progressives which I don't think are the kind of people Martin Luther King was addressing with his "white moderates" comments.

However I have seen comments here in DU that basically blur all these lines where 1960's white moderate holding Civil Rights back = 2015 Bernie Sanders white progressives because.... reasons.

I have also heard here recently that Clinton's base is not white moderates, which makes no sense at all and is a refutation of history yet is true because.... reasons.

Hence we are in a bizarre world where Clinton is the champion of all things Progressive no matter what you say and nothing she has done or said can be held against her because to do so would be to become a freeperish RW part of the Hillary Hate industry.... because.... reasons.

[lovemydog]

20. Thanks for your thoughtful post.

I agree the Sanders campaign adds valuable voices to policy. Many will contribute to politics in the future, and that's a welcome addition.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Number23]

24. This thread beautifully (if unintetionally) illustrates why racism is so slow to die

You have a white, Sanders supporter telling others that they are engaging in behavior that is flat out offensive, not to mention incredibly counter-productive. That this behavior is alienating far more minorities than its appealing to, thereby making its effect the exact OPPOSITE of what its intended.

And are people listening? Not even pretending to. Flat out saying "no" to what would seem to any moderately intelligent person to be a no-brainer -- don't use dead civil rights icons, people who are damn near worshiped in minority communities, to prop up your candidate.

For the life of me, I can't understand why this seems to be such a difficult thing for some to grasp. So convinced that they "know better" that they are dismissing flat out advice from their own contemporaries that they are engaging in behavior that is insulting, offensive and does the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what it's intended to do.

And this is done to a fellow white Sanders supporter, is it any wonder why so few posters of color even bother? This is why bravenak wears their hate and endless attempts to smear and dismiss her point of view like a badge of honor. And I don't fucking blame her.

[Bread and Circus]

27. Honestly it is all just very sad and shameful.

The back and forth on this matter has been harmful for everyone involved.

In think all it has served to do is to build enmity and disaffection for many here.

It is ugly.

[lovemydog]

45. +1

I can't understand it either Number23.

[peacebird]

26. LOL! As far as 'moving the message to the left', Hillary mouths platitudes but means none of it.

Bernie actually talks the talk and walks the walk.

[WillyT]

30. + 1,000,000,000 - What You Said !!!

[SusanCalvin]

28. Sigh...

Bernie speaks for me. Hillary will spring back, if nominated. DU probably makes no difference, but who knows. Bashing (as opposed to telling verifiable, relevant facts about) any candidate doesn't help. Why am I here? Sheer boredom - obviously I need to get a life....

[pangaia]

29. Go listen to Clara. >)))))))

[SusanCalvin]

31. Yeah, I really should do that.

The hotel is expensive, but the gas and ticket are cheap!

Please post the info for DFW-area DUers. (Tickets and vid.)

[pangaia]

33. Should I post in TEXAS GROUP or.. where?

[SusanCalvin]

36. I'd do Texas a and GD. Music group if there is one. nt

[pangaia]

37. OK; I just did in Texas and Classical Music.

GD is not allowed according to the rules. :&gt ((

[WillyT]

32. Curious... What Lions Of Progressivism Are We Allowed To Highlight ???

Not MLK, not Ceasar Chavez, not RFK, not JFK, not FDR, not Elanor...

These are some of the people that caused many of us to BECOME Democrats.

Why ignore our history NOW?

It is the ignoring of our very own history that has led led to both the destruction of our labor unions, and our very own rights to survive.

Seems to me... we need a wake up call.

Here's a start:

[Crystalite]

34. Yeah, MLK would probably like to be forgotten, am I right?

/sarcasm

Your logic escapes me.

[Douglas Carpenter]

35. they were/are both Democratic Socialist and supported a major redistribution of wealth and certainly

non-status quo types.

I think is the first major candidate in a long time who has that in common with Dr. King. But, I suppose using the quotes of him for political points should be done judiciously.

[MrWendel]

38. Its downright...

goulish. Trying to score political points by invoking his name (Shout out to Killer Mike). Saying who Dr. King would vote for is akin to grave robbing.

[bravenak]

40. I agree

[MrWendel]

41. "You know....

If Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Pope John Paul, and Jesus were still walking on the earth they would vote for Bernie too!"

[bravenak]

42. LOL

And Lincoln!! Harriet Tubman. Etcetera.

[moobu2]

39. Yes it's very sad to see them resort to this.

[AtomicKitten]

43. It's part of his bio whether some like it or not.

Trying to sideline a plus/strength/assett of a political opponent and turn it into a negative is so very Karl Rove.

Nice try. No sale.

[mmonk]

44. When the opposition drops it, gladly.

[Armstead]

46. I worry the "honesty and accountability" will stop the day the primaries are over

IMO whether or not Clinton';s nomination is inevitable, those who believe we should be able to do better than another status-quo, Wall St. corporate crony should not "go gently into that good night."

Instead, if it comes to that we should only be pulled kicking and screaming, and fighting to do better than this. because THIS (the status quo) isn't working.