Why be in denial of our candidates flaws?
No one is perfect.
But in this primary we don't have a battle that results in the lesser of two evils.
We literally have a candidate who speaks in half truths and nuance and then we have a candidate who spells it out, boisterously and honestly.
We have this candidate who says she's against Citizens United yet she continues to primarily benefit from its ill gotten wealth without even blinking an eye while our other candidate is majorly funded by the people.
We have a candidate who speaks in hawkish terms in a time where war clearly isn't the right answer and we have another candidate who fully understands that war is exactly what the enemy wants and it will benefit no one.
We have one candidate (and I know this is gonna sting a bit for some of you) that says Republicans are the enemy! While the other candidate sees them as coworkers with different (and grossly incorrect) opinions. Who do you think of these 2 candidates would work best with the Republicans?
We have one candidate who has a history of acting on expedience and saying things only when it benefits her most while our other candidate has had the correct opinion for about 40 years.
So what can be said about Bernie? He's okay with the right to bear arms? Fine by me personally. After all he does want stronger and more strict gun laws like any other Democratic candidate.
Theres a SuperPAC that prints literature for him? Hey, at least its not holding up his campaign and since that's the case he's not indebted to their needs, he's indebted to us, the donators. What did he say about Hillary's funders again? Something about "They don't just donate their money and expect nothing in return."
True. Hillary's funders aren't expecting her to use their billions and then work for us. I mean...
That's just common sense.
Either way, neither candidate is perfect.
But one of them isn't the lesser of two evils.
And he just makes perfect sense.
#FeelTheBern
...It's good to be back! Hope you've all had a great Thanksgiving!
= new reply since forum marked as read
But is it only a sad op because its true?
sorry to hurt your feelings. I'm only pointing out Hillary's AND Bernie's flaws, not yours! So maybe don't get all riled up?
and yeah this was nonpartisan and I pointed out the flaws I know of. You accuse the OP of glossing over reality yet you neglect to offer a counterpoint of your reality so...
Either put up or sit down?
to summarize your post:
call an opposing opinion "sad" and leave it at that.
that's not really a winning strategy am I right? 
Lemme break yours down then.
-Still didn't offer an opposing view point.
-Threatened to tell me things that would make my hair curl, but... didn't. I wonder why.
-Complained about my op not being fair when the sad fact is, it's still true and you haven't refuted that. I'll be honest and say, no I'm not sorry that the cards are stacked against Hillary. Tough cookies. She's worse than Bernie.
-Ended with a "Just stop attacking other candidates" statement. Nope, that's not how the primaries should work. Ever. We the people were given the RIGHT to scrutinize and pick apart these human beings that dare to run for the PRIVILEGE of being our leaders. We owe them no protections from criticism so I well tear down every candidate that has a valid reason to be scrutinized.
Still not putting up or sitting down I see. Take that as a threat if you want but, the fact is you entered my thread and complained about it, not expecting repercussions, then reprimanded me for expecting more of you.
Here's a bit of advice, if all you ever have to say to someone who has an opposing viewpoint is something along the lines of "nuh uh, that's stupid and it's not worth replying to" then....
Don't reply to it.
It's a bit different from a response.
Now -- unless you've got a language issue -- I can pretty much figure out that all you're looking for is a fight.
Let's save this stuff:
33. still no retort
View profile
still saying my op isn't worth replying to..
and you keep replying... wow
you've got nothing and you keep showing that with every reply that isn't an actual retort with real facts or information. thats sad.
you know just calling them lies doesn't help your stance, you gotta actually refute the lies. lol
you said you had stuff that would make my hair curl and yet.... nothing. what are you even doing? lol
And let's give you a quick English lesson, while we're at it:
rəˈtôrt/
verb
1.
say something in answer to a remark or accusation, typically in a sharp, angry, or wittily incisive manner.
"“No need to be rude,” retorted Isabel"
synonyms: answer, reply, respond, say in response, return, counter, rejoin, riposte, retaliate, snap back
"“Oh, sure,” she retorted"
2.
archaic
repay (an insult or injury).
"it was now his time to retort the humiliation"
noun
1.
a sharp, angry, or wittily incisive reply to a remark.
"she opened her mouth to make a suitably cutting retort"
synonyms: answer, reply, response, return, counter, rejoinder, riposte, retaliation; informal comeback
"a sarcastic retort"
I'm not terribly interested in fighting with you, sorry. Perhaps you can find someone else who might rise to your bait?
Oh ... LOL.
Bernie wins.
If you're trying to defend my remarks against Hillary then... This has been a very poor show.
and according to the definition of retort, I've been using it correctly this whole time soo... what was the point of that?
I made a remark and accusation against Hillary. check.
you retorted with a supposedly sharp, witty and elaborate breakdown of how my op was sad. check! lmao yes that's a retort buddy, you know you were trying to be witty with that breakdown. but I'm not here to argue definitions with you.
you said my op was full of lies. where is your refuting evidence to make my hair curl? You obviously don't have it! haha I'm seeing that you really are just making stuff up.
Me starting a fight? again buddy, YOU came onto MY thread and called ME a liar, then offered no evidence to back up your claim and I'M the one trying to start fights? lmao what kind of logic is that?? My thread was simply a fact filled post. Biased? hard not to be when the cards are actually stacked that way.
like I said before and please, please, please take this to heart this time... If all you have as a retort is "Nuh uh that's lies and this op is sad and not worth replying to" then.... don't reply. Its really that simple. but you keep proving yourself wrong and respondng to the op that deserves no response. I can't wrap my head around that, maybe you can but whatever.
point still stands, you came into a thread that you claimed wasn't worth a response, responded to it (what? lol) called it full of lies and threatened to tell me things that would make my hair curl (still haven't refuted my "lies" or revealed hair curling epiphanies) and you're still here, not putting up and not sitting down.
congratulations.
One candidate who voted for the Iraq War, and one who didn't.
It's pretty darned simple to decide who should be in the White House in 2017.
Last edited Tue Dec 1, 2015, 09:23 PM - Edit history (1)
Ya. K. A list. You ready? ... You have to promise to read it all.
Lets see.
I stepped into the politics of DU in April. Here is the thing. wWe had so many absurd conversations making Obama out to be.... (wait for it)....
evil.
Sounding familiar to you? So, though I love politics, the strategy of politics, how we create by what we do, watching how Obama moved.... I was unable to talk about fuckin' politics.
Sad, right? Because there was such extreme hate, what a fuckin waste of time, of my time, to look at the fun stuff, which I use to have this being a Democratic board. Kinda like talking to a rw'er (are we still allowed to scorn the rw'er? Or is that out?) ... arguing with a fuckin teabagger. I live in ALL red. I am the only progressive, liberal, Democrat I know. I could no longer talk politics from the position of a Democrat, on DU any more, without the constant onslaught of "Obama is evil, satan", and a number of other things. Republican, lazy, do nothing. I do not like that conversation, so I stopped participating in politics.
Mid April, I started hearing the same thing toward Clinton. It caught my attention. I was seeing the same adjectives toward Clinton, and I hadn't been seeing that for the last couple years. All of a sudden, Clinton is .... evil, republican, cold, uncaring, hawk, 1%.
Now, I was not a supporter of Clinton. I adamantly did not want her to win. I was excited listening to Sanders and considering others.
I love our Dems, and I love how smart our Dems are, I love listening to them and watching them strategically create their campaigns. The more I understand, the more I get what people are doing and saying. So, my "list" has developed over a lot of months, listening to a lot of people, and drawing my own conclusions.
1. Social issues. From day one I said it was my top priority. From day one I was being told Sanders was the best. As I listened to Sanders previously, since in his 30's, thru out his career, I disagree. Social issues is a weakness for Sanders. Sanders and supporters do not see it. I think he thinks he is good. But, I do not think that he is good. I have many many reasons why I think social issues are a weakness for him.
I have been consistent on that since he was only putting out feelers to run. I immediately recognized that he totally failed, with social politics. I consistently stated that was my number one issue. Being my number one issue, I aggressively and often pointed out the error of his ways.
Now, I was far from the only one. We were well before BLM stepped up. Documented.
We started seeing media pick up on it when he threw his hat in. It really was not a very hard one to see.
From May until today, I can show you how he continually is telling me he does not "get it".
2. Economic scam. Over the months of him gathering crowds, and speaking, ... speaking, that is what he loves. He loves to speak. I have learned, he does not do the work. Just talking about it is his reward.
Personal experience as an example: I have rw in my family. I have learned, they sit back and gripe about every damn thing. EVERY damn thing. No one gets a break. Nothing and no one is good enough. They sit back and criticize, and they have no solution, no interest in a solution, cause that is not their goal.
This is what I am learning about Sanders. His first run in congress was merely for the jollies of seeing if he could get a Repug win, by pitting himself against a Democrat. If he could effect results of the election. It was to bust up the Democratic party. A populist. That is what turned me onto the populist group here on DU. I started better understanding the intent and goal. They do not do the work, and it isn't about solutions. Only to complain.
It is yelling about what they want, without doing any of the work. And now. They want it NOW!
Or everyone is going to suffer the repercussions of them not getting everything they want right now. (sounds like the baggers).
Sanders declares all these wonderful things, without rationality, reason or logic. And then he and his people demand I lock step and agree, and you know..... I can't do it. I have to make my decisions off of facts. That is just the kind of person I am.
SO, to me, that is pretty big. Everything Sanders is preaching about is undoable. That is the biggest waste of my time. I am getting old. I do not have that kind of time to waste. I won't do something so stupid, at work. I won't look at the issue, and consider only the solutions that are actually UNdoable. My ass would be fired if I only tried UNdoable stuff. Same in my personal life. As a mom, I do not go over and over and over, the shit that doesn't work. I do not have the time. I do not want to listen to the whining and complaining. I a about solving the problem. I feel that is one of Sanders scariest fails.
3. Did i say social issues? Well, I am still all over that.
4. I have some real issues with what I see as games, that he is playing. I do not like them. I have only seen this the last couple months. I think his ego is really getting a good stroke, and he is liking it. I think he is losing his authenticity. That was what I liked about the man in the first place. Now I am questioning the perception of authenticity from the start.
The more and more I look at his ability to work with people, the way I have seen him manipulate party affiliation with his vote, as he claims he is pure, has me bothered.
Some of the things he has stuck footing on, I do not think is true. I do not like things like saying, he was for marriage equality, always. That is blatantly not true. He knows it. I know it. So, when he looks me in the eyes and says, ..... I was for marriage equality. I say, bullshit.
He doesn't do war because of one vote he was comfortable and unthreatened in making. He would bomb and kill like al the rest if he felt it necessary, but how he and his supports play it bothers me.
Now, he is a politician, I get that. I at least know he is a politician. I am continually told by him and his supporters he is not. He has been a politician for over 30 years. I gotta stick with facts.
5. He is not interested in foreign policy any more than he is interested in social issues. That matters to me.
6. I do not think most of the people he will work with likes or respects him.
7. I do not trust him with the Supreme Court. I think he might go toward his middle class "white class" issues in placing a person instead of MY social issues. An over site after all, because it simply is not the important issue of the day. The social issues have already progressed so far. The social issues are not resolved, true; but, they have progressed. Women can vote and Blacks have MLK and gays can marry. Lets move on. (his words)
8. He has been willing to be disruptive, twenty five years in congress. Call everyone out. No one does anything, both the same, and Sanders has accomplished little to nothing. I do not respect that.
9. I do not believe he will get the vote as a socialist. That one is only a personal belief that i do not argue, because I can be as wrong as right.
10. I think if he were to win, he would be totally ineffective and his negative, angry mood would feed the anger and hate that much more.
11. I think with a lot of people, the more they get to know him, the more they will not like him. I think that is why his numbers have stopped moving and why he is backsliding.
12. He doesn't listen. He wants others to listen to him, only.
13. It is not a revolution. If it were a revolution we would be starting local and working our way up and thru out. Like the teabaggers. We are not doing that. One man complaining, and a percentage of the nation agreeing, none willing to do the work. Start local, go to State, work toward national. Instead we just simply have one man at the top. For me, that is simply foolishness, that I laugh and shake my head, that I cannot take seriously.
14. He reacts first. I like Obama's steady and I think Clinton or O'malley would bring the same.
15. ...
Meh, I have probably missed some big ones. I may have to add.
I like Red Buttons better.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]
