What do we do with all the people who won't have a living wage under Hillary?

[pinebox]

Millions upon millions of people will be affected if Hillary is elected and won't see a living wage.
Hillary's plans currently calls for raiding federal minimum wage to $12/hr while Bernie wants $15/hr.
So what are we supposed to do with the millions who will be affected still because we have a candidate who refuses to think that people who work 40/hrs a week should earn a living wage?

It's math.

Hillary-- 12/hr @ 40 hours = $480/ week and $1920/month GROSS.
Bernie--$15/hr @ 40 hours = $600/ week and $2400/month GROSS.

Bernie's plan would pay minimum wage workers $480 more a month. An entire WEEKS worth of pay under Hillary's plan. That is 12 extra weeks worth of pay a year.

Breaking it down on a yearly gross comparison....

Hillary--- $23,040 a year GROSS.
Bernie--- $28,800 a year GROSS.

Bernie's plan would employees to make a whopping $5760 a year GROSS.


So what are we supposed to do with the millions of people who will still have to rely on Gov't assistance for things like food? Let people keep working while their employers, like Walmart, rake in billions in profits on the back of their employees? While we subsidize their low wages?

Sorry but on this one, Hillary is so far behind the ball, she's effectively out of the stadium at this point.

[ibegurpard]

1. Camp Weathervane is going to say

We can't get 15 dollars an hour but we'll be able to get 12. As if they think everyone is dumb enough not to notice we are dealing with people who are ACTIVELY promoting the idea of no minimum wage at all.

[pinebox]

4. Precisely

and yet in the end, the fact remains, Hillary isn't calling for a federal living wage which leaves millions still relying on Govt assistance.
Cue the "my Big Mac will cost $50!" crowd at any second.

[PowerToThePeople]

2. Are there no prisons?

No workhouses?

[pinebox]

7. I'm thinking

the poor houses will comeback rather soon

[w0nderer]

52. Notice of corporate merger

We are writing you to inform you that PoorHouses(inc) and WorkHouse(ltd) has merged with Prison(ltd)

under the corporate name PrivatePrison(ltd)

all duties and responsibilities of the first three parties will be taken over by PrivatePrison(ltd)

Thank you

[upaloopa]

3. First of all, nobody is going to get $15 just by

electing someone President. Congress sets the federal minimum wage.
Second Bernie is not going to be the nominee.
Third we will be working together to elect Hillary president after Super Tuesday.
All these anti Hillary screeds are getting old and past their sale date.

[pinebox]

5. First off your first sentence says it all

and for some reason you think that $12 will pass and that would actually still make people rely on Gov't assistance.
It''s sad your camp DOESN'T EVEN TRY and raises the white flag before the battle has even begun.
Second, Bernie will be.
Third, maybe you will be.
Fourth, almost as old as your camp doing nothing for the working person and enables people to work while starving.

It is what it is.

[upaloopa]

11. Don't tell me I said something I didn't

I am not your ally to elect Bernie so don't put your words in a thread and say they are mine.

[Armstead]

12. Your are putting words in people's mouths by saying they are Clinton allies

What's the difference?

[upaloopa]

13. Stop making up shit

[Armstead]

18. You just wrote a whole post of shit, with presumptious assumptions

then you criticized someone for making presumptions.

[pinebox]

22. lol Good one!

[pinebox]

16. Hey you said it

Not I.
You support a candidate who enables a system where people starve and people work for pennies. It doesn't take a mental heavyweight to figure out that you agree with her and her policies and your statement aboves only proves that YOU think this is right.

This is reality. You support a candidate who enables this. OWN IT.

No you are certainly NOT my ally under any disguise. You support corporate welfare and paying people pennies no matter how many hours they work. I don't.

Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance
http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/
Americans for Tax Fairness, a coalition of 400 national and state-level progressive groups, made this estimate using data from a 2013 study by Democratic Staff of the U.S. Committee on Education and the Workforce.

“The study estimated the cost to Wisconsin’s taxpayers of Walmart’s low wages and benefits, which often force workers to rely on various public assistance programs,” reads the report, available in full here.

“It found that a single Walmart Supercenter cost taxpayers between $904,542 and $1.75 million per year, or between $3,015 and $5,815 on average for each of 300 workers.”

Americans for Tax Fairness then took the mid-point of that range ($4,415) and multiplied it by Walmart’s approximately 1.4 million workers to come up with an estimate of the overall taxpayers’ bill for the Bentonville, Ark.-based big box giant’s staffers.


The report provides a state-by-state breakdown of these figures, as well as some context on the other side of the coin: Walmart’s huge share of the nationwide SNAP, or food stamp, market.

“Walmart told analysts last year that the company has captured 18 percent of the SNAP market,” it reads. “Using that figure, we estimate that the company accounted for $13.5 billion out of $76 billion in food stamp sales in 2013.”

[Live and Learn]

49. +1000 nt

[Scuba]

66. + another

[Blue_Adept]

28. Jury Results

On Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:04 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

First off your first sentence says it all
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=859541

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Over the top nasty attack on other DUers or supporters of a democratic candidate do not constintute constructive criticism or good community standards. The accusations in this post are beyond the pale and do not belong here.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:11 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: You guys are going back and forth. Ya give, ya get. Suck it up and get back in there!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerted on post is just a response to another post. Nothing disruptive, hurtful, rude, etc. That alert was beyond the pale and the alerter does not belong here.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Outright lies about what the poster is saying within their first sentence of the post. Too much of that going on these days.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Contentious, yes. A violation of TOS. Not in my view.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alert, attacking DU does not agree with TOS

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[ibegurpard]

6. Hillary is aiming low

When dealing with people who want to get RID of the minimum wage and will never work with her. Do you actually support this?

[upaloopa]

15. I put no stock in anything a Bernie supporter

says about Hillary.

[pinebox]

17. Facts hurt

#SorryNotSorry

[upaloopa]

19. You have no facts so nothing hurts

What will hurt you (and not hurt me) is this bull shit stream will end soon.

[pinebox]

25. No facts?

Let's see, where to begin.

Is Hillary supporting a living wage? My my camp weathervane, what an intricate little web you've woven yourselves. Flip meet flop!
What will hurt you the most is when voters show up in droves voting for REAL CHANGE and rally around a candidate who has their backs!

[ibegurpard]

23. Hope you're stocked up on Kleenex

For November 2016

[sleepyvoter]

67. The firewall states are not going to deliver for Clinton.

The nomination will not be ending on that date. In fact, the nomination will continue through June. The result will be someone else not named Clinton.

[NCTraveler]

8. The political discourse here has gone from painful to flat out amusing.

It's just hard to take this serious here anymore.

[Armstead]

14. How is a living wage amusing?

I like to think I have a fairly good sense of humor, and am not even opposed to a little self-deprecating hurmor at my expense or the expense of peoplee and ideas I support.

But I fail to see how a legitimate comparison of the potential REAL WORLD impact of the proposed wage policies of candidates is a laughing matter.

Not being able to pay the rent, or forcing working parents to feed their kids cheap slop like Chef Boyardee 7 nights a week isn't my idea of humorous.

[NCTraveler]

27. The political discourse is amusing. I was pretty clear on that. Not sure how you missed it.

How long has Sanders been a member of the Senate? Why hasn't he used his leadership skills to get this bill passed. Oops. You seem to have forgotten that must be a part of the conversation. The op is pie in the sky garbage not based in political reality. Most of us haven't forgotten that Sanders is a career politician. I do like your bluster though. Lot's of spunk.

[Armstead]

39. Pie in the sky?

Hillary-- 12/hr @ 40 hours = $480/ week and $1920/month GROSS.
Bernie--$15/hr @ 40 hours = $600/ week and $2400/month GROSS.

Aiming for either of those levels for people working full time to be earning is hardly a princely income under either plan.

And in several years, when either would kick in, $15 an hour will probably be the equivalent of $10 today.

And Sanders has been fighting for these things for years. It's not his fault that the Congress and the political leadership class has allowed the minimum wage to fall so far behind the rising cost of living for so many years.

[ibegurpard]

24. yeah it's fucking hilarious isn't it?

Must be nice to not have to worry about that extra 3 to 4 hundred dollars per month and yet get a tax bill for not paying useless premiums to insurance companies who won't pay out for anything...

[NCTraveler]

29. Yes, this level of political discourse is hilarious.

Outrage meter set to pegged.

[NCTraveler]

31. ooops.

The political discourse here has gone from painful to flat out amusing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=859545

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Disagreement is fine, but laughing at a discussion of helping low-wage workers is what Republicans do, not Democrats. Families going to bed hungry and cold is not funny at all.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:42 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: ...which is why you write a reply to the post instead of hitting "alert".
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This post is accurate. It's flat out delusional to think this OP of wishful thinking is immune from challenge. The alerter should be banned frankly. There's no violation of the TOS, unlike a lot of other posts in this thread. It's the posters right to challenge and editorialize about an out-of-this-world OP. Leave it.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter needs to get a grip. The post is fine.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I rather think that the poster is laughing at Bernie supporters, rather than the plight of low-wage workers. And it's perfectly fine to laugh at Bernie supporters at DU.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't even agree with NCT on presidential candidate preference but still this is a dumb alert.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[Armstead]

40. That should not have been alerted on

But the dismissive tone towards people who believe in issues strongly -- especially a very basic and rather traditional liberal issue -- is still rather obnoxious.

It's like if I said I find the people who care that Clinton is female is hilarious because getting all worked up about gender equality is ridiculous and funny.

[riversedge]

45. I have a tad

bit of hope for humanity.


In solidarity

[UglyGreed]

9. I believe the Walmart

strategy may help.

When Stephanie Ballam finishes her shift at a Walmart Supercenter near Columbus, Ohio, she sometimes picks up a few groceries—items she might have put on the shelves herself hours before: a box of oatmeal, a can or two of mini ravioli.

At the checkout, first she swipes her Walmart employee card to get her store discount. Then, because she doesn’t earn enough money at her job to make ends meet, she will often pay for the groceries with food stamps, using her Electronic Benefit Transfer card. Eventually, that money will show up in Walmart’s annual earnings report as sales.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2014/04/walmart_employees_on_food_stamps_their_wages_aren_t_enough_to_get_by.html

[w0nderer]

10. I'm sure 'A modest Proposal' J.Swift has some ideas the R's and DL's (dem lite) would love n/t

[JaneyVee]

20. Not raise their taxes.

[MannyGoldstein]

26. Has either candidate proposed raising taxes on the working poor?

Thanks in advance.

[Melurkyoulongtime]

21. If companies can do that

then they can afford to pay a livable wage, period, end of freaking story. These greedy asshats have got to go! ETA: Also, considering their profits they could afford to subsidize benefits too, but I digress.

[MineralMan]

30. When does Bernie's $15 minimum wage go into effect,

assuming he could get his plan through Congress? How soon does everyone get that $15 per hour? Do you know?

Don't know? It's 2020. Here's a link that explains:

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/07/22/bernie-sanders-proposes-federal-minimum-wage-of-15-an-hour/

[pinebox]

35. When does Hillary's plan go into effect?

Do you know? it's 2020.
Here's the link.
My point stands.

[Armstead]

41. And by 2020 that's probably be the equivalent of $9 an hour today

and that's why Clinton's refusal to even embrace that low wage is not justifiable.,

[pnwmom]

57. That's not based on the current low rate of inflation. What are you basing it on?

[Armstead]

62. Do you ever go shopping, or go to restauraunts or basically do anythiing involving money?

About four or five years agio I could buy a smasll carton oif milk fior $1.50. Today it's over $2.60 and rising.

Could get a decent breakfast in a basic coffee shop or restaurant for under $5. Now tyhe equivalent is around $9 or $10.


Whatever official figured are now (factoring in the temporarily lower price of gas) it seems likr prices go up erverytimne you stepo into a store or do anything involving a cash register.

[Todays_Illusion]

32. Hillary is making an appearance with Warren Buffet and will push more people onto EITC a plan where

the taxpayer supports the worker, not the employer but where the worker is always poor and has no option but to accept food and income assistance.

Why does Hillary want to use tax money to support WalMart, Corporate Agriculture, food servers and food processor corporations, all national fast food chain workers and so on?

They all support Hillary so Hillary will use tax money to support them. Hillary has proposed an infrastructure plan, who does she think will pay the bill, it won't be that billionaire class, nor the largest corporations who don't pay much of their income in taxes. It will be the middle and working class supporting the lowest paid workers just like now.

[Sancho]

33. Besides the fact that the OP ignores the reality of passing a minimum wage=$15 in a repub Congress

Hillary's plan for profit sharing is much more effective. Hillary's plan for wage transparency so that women can see and challenge low wages is best. Union analysis demonstrates why Hilary's plans are better for workers - who want to make much more than $15. Finally, you have to start with voting rights and a path to citizenship to overcome the GOP foothold in state capitals. Bernie is in the minor leagues on all fronts.

What are you going to do with 30-40 million people that don't work for "minimum wage" because they are undocumented!
They work for cash under the table now. The Trump plan to deport them? Vermont doesn't even have tuition equity. Say one thing, but don't walk the walk?

25% of Florida (at least) was born out side of the the US. If you want fairness and justice, you start with something more rational than "minimum wage". A minimum wage increase is too little, too late, and too easy to defeat. There are 20 times the population of Vermont who think Hillary is on the right track, and Bernie's 1960's rants are irrelevant.

Bernie is an old-fashioned light-weight who doesn't understand economics, social justice, or education. He just sells snake oil by opposing everything and he doesn't have a real plan to actually do anything.

That's why he was ineffective in Congress, he has not gotten any traction in the Sunbelt, and he doesn't fare well in debates.

[ibegurpard]

34. And you ignore the fact

That we are dealing with people who want to eliminate the minimum wage entirely.
And you think Hillary, who they hate with a passion, is going to get anything through?
Get real.

[Sancho]

36. Yes, she will make a difference...

because fixing those voting rights, a path to citizenship, and even profit sharing are real, winnable issues!!!
Register everyone at birth!! Does Vermont do that? Has Bernie suggested it?

Doesn't matter if you money is offshore - if you have profit sharing the employees make more. You want a tax break - then share the wealth. You want a government contract - then share the wealth. It's a brilliant idea. Something that Bernie never thought of in all the years in Congress.

There are a LOT more people who love Hillary than hate her - and the combination of women, immigrants, union workers, and minorities love Hillary's policies and know that she will be the best candidate.

Hillary is on a record setting pace for political endorsements for all modern candidates - so elected officials think they can work with her.

Yep, Hillary will be as effective a Democrat as we've see in a long time.

[ibegurpard]

47. profit sharing???

Oh come on...talk to any accountant. There are plenty of ways to mask profits.

[Sancho]

54. Would you rather work for SAMS or Costco?

If you have a government contract, you have to share the profit. Do you or don't you get the concept?

That's the easy one.

[mythology]

50. And you think they are going to leap at the chance to work with Sanders?

Both (and O'Malley) would have problems getting Republican cooperation. You may have noticed the Republicans don't play nicely with others.

[pinebox]

37. And for some reasom you think $12 will be easier in a GOP congress?

Yet you fight for less and it does what? It enables people to live in starvation.

Undocumented? We can talk about that. Shall we bring up how Hillary was just an apology tour for calling people "illegal" or how about her disparaging remarks about children of migrants?

Your candidate is isn't just old fashioned and fighting for the 1%, she's out of touch proposing stuff that goes about 50%. Why fight for bronze when you can have gold?

A lot more who love Hillary than hate her? Uh how about NO.



You say it's irrelevant. These people think otherwise. But they don't count do they?



?5

[Sancho]

42. I know that profit sharing will work better than any minimum wage.

...and I see pictures of NE and Midwest white people marching, when we have more people in the county I live in than Vermont - and about half are immigrants of all backgrounds. I see a thousand times the number in front of that Walmart hitting our shores everyday. Some immigrants saw the work of the Clinton Foundation in their home country.

I also am VP of a union here and on a state-wide political committee, so I see the actual polls of union members, likely voters, and registered voters. Hillary could not be more popular. In fact, Bernie is often in third place.

From Florida to California, in most urban centers like NY and Chicago, and with the majority of union members: Hillary is loved. They have seen her and worked with her for decades. In government and also seeing the wonderful work of the Clinton Foundation and Children's Defense Fund. I've been in downtown AA churches in Charleston (where I grew up), and taught in rural schools in GA and SC. I know for a fact that Hillary is well-liked and respected almost universally. I work with immigrants almost every day now. Hillary is on Univision 20 times more than Bernie, and has been for many years. With immigrants, she is loved and respected.

Whether you go with polls or first hand experience. Hillary is the candidate for the Democrats this election, and she may be the one who really starts a revolution that changes lives in America.

[Armstead]

43. Tax credit for profit sharing in lieu of higher wages? More Conservative Clintonomics

Like robbing Peter to pay Paul -- and giving corporations another nice tax break to Big Business in the process.

More Conservative Clintonomics.

[Sancho]

44. Sorry you don't understand...

If you want a government contract - then profit sharing and employee ownership would rule. No tax break unless those employees are paid a piece of the pie. You make money, the employees are paid more. See how that works?

If you want a tax break, or want to have your headquarters overseas, then you better be on board.

There's not time on DU for a graduate class in economics, but it's a great plan.

[Armstead]

46. I write about and talk to business for a living

I don't think I need your graduate course, thanks anyway.

Actual, you'd be surprised at the number of business owners and managers I have talked to over the years also believe the minimum wage should be raised and also feel that the current levels are an injustice. Many already start their employees at the levels being discussed.

It's often the biggest and baddest corporations with the overpaid executives and greedy fat owners who complain about it the most.

BTW I also think profit sharing is a good idea. But not as a tax-subsidized substitute for decent wages.

[whatthehey]

38. Math is the trouble here.

CEO's overpaid? Absolutely.

Front line fast-food employees underpaid? Sure, although I've met a few I personally wouldn't hire at any rate. Let's assume they get weeded out.

But Yum has 41000 RESTAURANTS. There is a lot of variation of course but using rough rules of thumb let's say each QSR is open on average 17 hours a day and has on average 6 employees working at any time (much more at lunch/breakfast of course, often fewer late night). Lets be generous and throw in 5 closed days.

That's 360 * 17 * 6 employee hours * 41000 restaurants. About 1.5 BILLION hours.

If they had no CEO at all, executive infighting, loss of strategic focus and Wall Street panic be damned, they could pay 2.9c an hour more.

I'm really not sure that's enough to end starvation wages....

Note to the perpetually poutraged who will assume all kinds of nonsense about my perceptions rather than arguing reality: I support a $15 min wage and strict limits on deductibility of executive pay. I've also donated to Sanders this cycle and will probably vote for him in the primary, though it's doubtful I'll have the chance. I just have better arithmetic and critical thinking skills than to conflate the issues. Minimum wage boosts are needed to drive demand by getting more money to those who have the highest marginal propensity to consume. CEO pay won't even make a fractional dent in paying for it. Increased custom from people who can now spend will (it will have to, because Yum doesn't make enough profit now to pay $7.15 * 1.5 billion in wages)

[Armstead]

48. The math is the same as rent, utilities and supplies

If a business can't afford to be in their ideal high traffic location, they go to the next best site they can afford. They can;t tell the electric company that they can only afford x amont less per kilowatt hour than the going rate.

And on a bigger scale, how many businesses have taken on huge debt by acquiring and otehr financial chicanery to artificially "grow" suddenly?

You have to live within your means. That goes for businesses as well as individuals. They should only hire as many employees as they can reasonably afford, and pay them decently.

[Thinkingabout]

51. The same as they will do when Sanders is unable to get $15 an hour.

[Purveyor]

53. She'll "let them eat cake, then"...

[demwing]

59. Boom. Nailed it. /nt

[doc03]

55. Do really think that a $15 an hour minimum wage is going to pass with

a Republican congress?

[Andy823]

56. Hell no!

The on thing people seem to forget is that as long as republicans control even on branch of congress, there will be NO wage increase at the national level.

If people really want to get the minimum wage raised, they need to start at the state level and get the issue on the ballot. Let the people vote for it. If it's on the ballot it will win, and the leaders of your state will either do the will of the people, or the people should remove them from office.

[pinebox]

58. Do you think a $12 an hour minimum wage will pass with a Republican congress?

Same difference. In the end, Hillary is still fighting for a non living wage, Bernie is fighting for a wage that allows people to survive.

[doc03]

63. Actually a $12 minimum wage may be obtainable. The $12 figure would still

be higher than the minimum wage has ever been adjusted for inflation. Hey if you elect me I will go for a $30 minimum wage.

[pinebox]

64. Doubtful

The first thing we have to do is change congress but in the end, people will be working their collective butts off and still have to rely on Gov't assistance while we give corporate welfare out like it's nobody business.

Ya, $30/hr is a common RW propaganda smear of "why not a $30 wage? $50? Heck let's make it $100!"
which only serves to let the problem go on and on. Meanwhile millennials are the first generation to ever make less than their parents.

The time has come to start giving a damn about the American people!

[doc03]

69. Wages are stagnent because we have lost all our middle class UNION jobs. In the last

45 years both parties had a hand in that. I see people here on DU that will argue against unions all the time. Unless people start voting Democrats in office and we
get control of the SCOUS I don't see how it can be turned around.

[pinebox]

70. I think it's deeper than that

I think a lot of it has to do not with unions but rather companies moving off shore. It's all about maximizing profits. You should see the American industry that's moved right across the border to Reynosa, Mexico which is a border town. Personally I think companies penalized for doing this but that's just my 2¢.

SCOTUS is important and that worries me with Hillary. Do we want a judge who supports Citizens United or not? I don't and I believe Hillary would put one in place who does.

[JTFrog]

71. "I don't and I believe Hillary would put one in place who does."

Well if you would just quit repeating every fucking right wing bullshit that you run across on the internet you wouldn't have such a "perception" problem.

Citizen's United was created specifically to attack Hillary Clinton. You would have to be a complete moron to think that she would do anything in support of Citizen's united.

[Autumn]

60. They can do as they always have.

They can eat cake.

Just in case

[yardwork]

61. JEB will fix it.

[oasis]

65. Easy solution. $12.00 to start. Ease up to $15.00.

Bernie's a great guy but he tends to be overly dramatic at times. "Starvation wages"? c'mon now.

[pinebox]

68. Yes starvation wages

You can't live off food stamps, it's literally impossible.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-kitchn/what-its-really-like-to-cook-on-a-food-stamp-budget_b_7664740.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/gwyneth-paltrow-attempts-to-live-on-29-food-stamp-budget-for-a-week-in-earnest-gets-roasted-on-the-10172129.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/surprising-realization-from-living-off-food-stamps-2015-5