"ALL men are rapist."

[seabeyond]

i am hearing SOME men say this, and often. whenever discussion comes up, regardless of issue, i then hear SOME men say, ya ... and those women say ALL men are rapist.

out there in computer land, i know somewhere there has been a discussion, idea, thought, that might say in some scheme or way, all men are rapist for whatever reasoning the person/woman has. i do not know. i dont read stuff like that so whatever it is, i do not have any understanding what the argument is or what is being said.

i do know (or am pretty sure) that no one on du has said ALL men are rapist.

yet, i hear it repeatedly.

this is bothersome. as we see a concerted effort to reduce rape to victim blaming. categorize "honest, legitimate, forcible" rape. no means yes. 45-75% false rape claims. rape entertainment in our social media.

A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That’s not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?

Rapists do.

They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.

Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men rape, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like rape jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of rape.

http://dbzer0.com/blog/feminists-dont-think-all-men-are-rapists-rapists-do

i was looking for MRA's position that feminist say "all men are rapists" i came across a voice for men. a popular site that is on southern poverty law site as a hate group. i ran into a list of their stories. take a look at some of the articles. this is what SOME men are feeding off of.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/tag/rape-culture/

The unspoken side of rape
Study Reveals Female Rape Victims Enjoyed the Experience
My name is Typhonblue and I am a survivor of rape hysteria
No means no. Sure, whatever.
Time to blame the victims: only women can stop rape
Rape is not Special and Neither are You

wow. that kinda put me in a funk. much more on this site. and then we wonder... where this garbage is coming from.

The Southern Poverty Law Center

A Voice for Men
A Voice for Men is essentially a mouthpiece for its editor, Paul Elam, who proposes to “expose misandry [hatred of men] on all levels in our culture.” Elam tosses down the gauntlet in his mission statement: “AVfM regards feminists, manginas [a derisive term for weak men], white knights [a similar derisive term, for males who identify as feminists] and other agents of misandry as a social malignancy. We do not consider them well intentioned or honest agents for their purported goals and extend to them no more courtesy or consideration than we would clansmen [sic], skinheads, neo Nazis or other purveyors of hate.” Register-Her.com, an affiliated website that vilifies women by name who have made supposedly false rape allegations (among other crimes against masculinity), is one of Elam’s signature “anti-hate” efforts. “Why are these women not in prison?” the site asks.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/misogyny-the-sites

[hlthe2b]

1. SB, I know what you are trying to convey, but would you please put your subject line in quotes?

I think that otherwise the outcome is almost preordained. There will be meta thread after meta thread saying that HOF is SAYING this, followed by 300 or more reply post outcries and angry recriminations towards our group.

Thanks. I know it shouldn't be necessary, but it seems that it is.

[seabeyond]

2. thank you. i get in trouble with things like that.

though it is clearly not what i am saying, i think it is purposely misconstrued as anything else.

i appreciate the reminder.

[hlthe2b]

3. Not hard for any of us to do, sometimes....

thanks

[Vox Moi]

4. I have a question about rape as a legal issue. I sincerely want to know more about this.

There are degrees of murder.
In none of these cases is it question of blaming the victim or trivializing the offense but rather it's an inquiry into the intentions and actions of the offender.
This question is debated in the courts to the most exacting degree.
Nobody claims in court that murder is murder or that all homicides are equal.
There isn't even a generic murder charge as far as I know. You must specify the degree.
-------
How does this square with the notion that 'rape is rape'?
-------
Just asking.

[seabeyond]

5. googling, i picked up the first site, oregon law

If sexual activity occured while the minor was under the age of 14, this is a violation of 163.365 Rape in the second degree. Rape in the second degree is a class B felony. Maximum sentences include 10 years and $250,000.

The statute of limitations clock does not begin to run on sexual crimes against minors until the minor reaches the age of 18.

Given your description, the 20 year old could potentially be in violation of any of the following Oregon Sexual Offense laws.

ORS 163.365 Rape in the second degree.
ORS 163.375 Rape in the first degree.
ORS 163.415 Sexual abuse in the third degree.
ORS 163.435 Contributing to the sexual delinquency of a minor
ORS 163.445 Sexual misconduct.

For a full description of sexual offense laws in Oregon see 163.305-479 Sexual Offenses.

See 161.605 and 161.265 for Prison Terms and Fines respectivly.

http://www.sexlaws.org/answer_board_question-statutory_rape_235

[Vox Moi]

6. Thanks, seabeyond ....

but I see a disconnect between the facts in your reply and the 'rape is rape' statement by Obama and others.
I'm confusing a political issue with a legal one, I guess.

[seabeyond]

8. "I'm confusing a political issue with a legal one, I guess. " yes. nt

[ismnotwasm]

11. Apparently you missed the "legitimate" rape part?

As well as the efforts by the RW To redefine rape as "forcible rape" ? These are the issues that caused the "rape is rape" response, not the legal degrees of rape
Here is a good article on the topic


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/19/712251/how-todd-akin-and-paul-ryan-partnered-to-redefine-rape/

[One_Life_To_Give]

7. Sometimes you have to tick people off to be heard.

Most feminist sites are not Landing Pads where uninitiated men are expected to feel welcomed into the discussion/movement. And I don't think that most of them should be either.
But that doesn't mean that the casual reader doesn't see "Patriarchal Rape Culture" on a page and not feel punched in the gut. A quick google search shows that phrase appears in several threads on DU. And while it's not what is intended. The uninitiated guy stumbling across that is likely to interpret that as "all men are rapists".


There was a good blog post recently about landing pads and feminism. But I can't find a link at the moment.

[seabeyond]

10. and their interpretation of something not being said is my fault, how?

this is what i do not get.

as a white, i can read something that minorities say about the culture and not hear.... ALL are...

at what point is it a mans responsibility that if they are confused, per their personal interpretation, to get educated since no one is saying all men rape. to me, it is as much as being aware that people are not saying it, but used in a way to dismiss womens issues. it has continually been clarified on du that NO ONE is saying all men rape. yet, i am seeing it in some posts repeatedly from the very people that have been NO ONE on du has said that. they know. and still they use that meme.

i also get that men have to get past the initial punch in the gut thing. but, maybe if it was actually expected of them not to take it personally, the more they do it, the less of a punch it will be, until they no longer feel attacked and merely see it as info given for understanding and knowledge.

anyway.... i do appreciate your post.

[ismnotwasm]

9. It came, in part from grossly misquoting Dworkin

From her book "intercourse" who says nothing of the kind and she herself repudiated that interpretation of her work.

As far as I'm concerned, It a meme now, perpetrated by the porn industry, where so much of sex is linked to to violent, or dominant acts. It's an unspoken tenant of religions that demand submission or obedience including sexual obedience from women. Mostly it's implied in the sexual entitlement of males, who can obtain sexual gratification of one sort of another as easily as ordering at certain espresso stands.

No, all men are not rapists, sex is not rape and nobody know this better than feminists. We understand the difference between sex and rape. We try to point out what entitlement means, for anybody. We 'rally the troops' not just when politically expedient, but at all times. We point out the difference between sex and rape clearly, using studies and words and personal experiences.

Despite all that, there are men who refuse to understand, who won't look at rape as so something they can do anything about, wanting to stay personally disconnected from rape. The result of this isn't good. A man is look with suspicion walking down the street with his own young daughter. A women will be nervous alone with a male she doesn't know for any length of time.

And that putrid site you linked to is also connected, men tired of being viewed with suspicion---OF COURSE are going to blame women. There're not going to blame themselves now are they?

[seabeyond]

12. this is an interesting perspective. i hadnt thought of that.

As far as I'm concerned, It a meme now, perpetrated by the porn industry, where so much of sex is linked to to violent, or dominant acts. It's an unspoken tenant of religions that demand submission or obedience including sexual obedience from women. Mostly it's implied in the sexual entitlement of males, who can obtain sexual gratification of one sort of another as easily as ordering at certain espresso stands.

football game last night. i asked hubby who the quarterback was on the steelers. Roethlisberger. "sexual assault allegations in Lake Tahoe in 2008 and in Milledgeville, Georgia, in 2010." he raped. cant stand the man. cant stand the defenders. cant stand glorifying him saying winning a superbowl would make it all better for him.

so, sittin in our room and made a couple comments about the rapist. my 15 yr old son is the one that gathered the info on this man and told me about it, educated me. he yells out from his room.... and he just plays football, with all the fans, and he raped. no one says anything. they allowed it. and he got MARRIED.

my son is so damn offended by this man.

he went into about a 20 minute rant about it all.

my husband does not get it like my boys do. i sit here seeing this man play football when we all know what he did. it is just really powerful what it all says about this society.

[ismnotwasm]

13. And that's the good news

I think our younger people are starting to understand, the feminists of the 60's probably didn't realize it would take a century at least for their message and their revolution to fully bear fruit, in spite of the continuing sexism, the misogyny our little ones continue to grow out of malignant forced gender roles and find the human being inside. We grow, we advance.

I want men and women to honor one another. And each other. Someday.