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flashman13

(739 posts)
Thu Feb 23, 2023, 06:39 PM Feb 2023

When it comes to railroad safety, everyone here is missing the forest for the trees. [View all]

By first world standards, the American rail system, like much of our other infrastructure, is totally antiquated. That makes it inherently dangerous.

Why you ask? There are two main reasons. First, the railroad industry is making big profits from their obsolete systems thank you very much, and has no incentive too improve anything that might diminish those profits. Cleaning up derailments is a cost of doing business and its far cheaper than upgrading the system. Second, and here is the main point that is being missed, the Obama regulation that Trump abandoned was so tiny as to be almost meaningless. Its main purpose was an attempt to keep Bakken oil unit trains (100 to 120 cars all carrying that single cargo) from burning down another town such as the 2013 disaster in Lac Megantic, Quebec which killed 47 people. It would have had no effect on other trains. That rule mandated improved braking systems in one class of train while leaving the vast majority of obsolescent trains unaffected.

The entire rail system is obsolescent from top to bottom. Many rail beds are in poor repair from being pounded by ever heavier trains (the same is true for interstate highways). Weakened road beds force reduced speeds and cause trains to shimmy and rock unnecessarily making derails more likely. We are still using creosoted wood ties, an environmental nightmare in themselves, which have to be replaced periodically. As those ties deteriorate trains again become less safe. The rest of the first world systems went to concrete ties years ago. Significant parts of traffic control systems are also obsolete. The vast majority of our rail lines are single track which puts an especially high demand on control systems. Most first class systems are double track. Double track lines can carry more freight, more efficiently, with greater safety. A large percentage of rail cars are old and obsolescent. Many should be replaced a.s.a.p. A contributing factor to many of the destructive Bakken oil fires was that the tank cars were of single walled construction. At least for those specific cargoes, those old tankers have been replaced by double walled tankers that are much less prone to rupture. As far as I could tell, all of the hazardous chemical tankers involved in the Ohio derail were single walled. Improved braking on a few unit trains is meaningless until every car on every train is upgraded or replaced with new cars incorporating the newer systems. Finally, in the interest of maximizing profits, many of the railroads have eliminated employees that were tasked with watching for hazardous situations and preventing accidents before they happen. Companies have not built enough automated sensors to replace those employees. Oh, and BTW, maybe we could create a passenger system efficient and fast enough (not to mention more comfortable), to compete with air travel. All of these changes could help to reduce our carbon footprint.

I have tried to point out how large the problems of railroad safety are. As I have said, there are no real incentives for the railroads to change. A few tweaks to regulations, no matter how well intended, are not going to cure the problems. Too bad we don't have a Congress that is interested in governing. Congress could mandate that all of these safety problems must be comprehensively addressed. The problems really are more extensive than what the industry can address on its own. A massive Railroad Investment Infrastructure bill, spent over decades, budgeting funds for everything from right-of-way acquisition, total rebuilt of the old lines, replacement of obsolescent equipment, especially the electrification of the entire fleet of locomotives to replace dirty diesel units, and hiring of more personnel, would be required to do the job. Not only would that bill be a creator of a vast number of new jobs, it would be and investment in the future of the country in an ever more competitive world.

And if only pigs could fly, I mean ride the train!

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great post, and thanx onethatcares Feb 2023 #1
Indeed a great post. 3auld6phart Feb 2023 #59
Won't get better until we nationalize the railways. OAITW r.2.0 Feb 2023 #2
I totally agree. Every time I say anything about our need for new, light rail japple Feb 2023 #8
Why not have the U.S. own the rails like it owns the interstate highway system and then tax those LiberalArkie Feb 2023 #13
Privitizing the rails means doing the bare minimum to keep them operable. OAITW r.2.0 Feb 2023 #14
I guess what I meant was the US owning the rails, repair them, bring them up to euro standards LiberalArkie Feb 2023 #18
We are on the same page. OAITW r.2.0 Feb 2023 #19
Nationalization implies that the government also owns the trains, cars and pays the employees MichMan Feb 2023 #38
How do we do air traffic control? OAITW r.2.0 Feb 2023 #39
Ever driven on the roads in Michigan? MichMan Feb 2023 #40
At least nationalize traffic control naitionwide - as air traffic control is. Mopar151 Feb 2023 #60
on ties - Kali Feb 2023 #3
great post and you are right. Southern yellow pine is not the same as oak. Anything to save $. Evolve Dammit Feb 2023 #10
There isn't the lumber to replace those. plimsoll Feb 2023 #23
Yes Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2023 #32
There are some concrete ties in service. They are generally on freight lines that also carry flashman13 Feb 2023 #35
K&R pandr32 Feb 2023 #4
Hear Hear, Sir The Magistrate Feb 2023 #5
thanks. informative. stopdiggin Feb 2023 #6
why should they change? onethatcares Feb 2023 #7
Thanks for this post - very informative. 2 questions for you: diva77 Feb 2023 #9
I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here but, we no longer have the will to make big projects happen flashman13 Feb 2023 #29
Thanks for your response, flashman. Can't hurt to contact one's congresspeople -- diva77 Feb 2023 #42
This is a really excellent post, flashman13. calimary Feb 2023 #11
Nothing like a good fire to get peoples attention flashman13 Feb 2023 #30
Thank you Wild blueberry Feb 2023 #12
Great info! And I'd like to add how it was a corporation/government...... jaxexpat Feb 2023 #15
You have done well, Grasshopper...... MyOwnPeace Feb 2023 #28
The foxes have always slept with the hens....... jaxexpat Feb 2023 #31
Thank you, flashman. brer cat Feb 2023 #16
Sad, but very informative Pepsidog Feb 2023 #17
Thank you flashman13 .. bsiebs Feb 2023 #20
THANK YOU!!! AverageOldGuy Feb 2023 #21
Excellent post, thanks. 10 years ago a friend who was returning appalachiablue Feb 2023 #22
Freight vs Freight, I'll take U.S. rail over European. nt Gore1FL Feb 2023 #25
When I worked for Union Pacific, we were better than most industries in our utilized technology Gore1FL Feb 2023 #24
can't speak to 'systems' stopdiggin Feb 2023 #54
That wasn't my experience in my 15 years of professional service in the industry. nt Gore1FL Feb 2023 #56
Here are your links Farmer-Rick Feb 2023 #62
I thank you for finding them to support your arguments. nt Gore1FL Feb 2023 #63
I am not sure those are supportive articles though Gore1FL Feb 2023 #64
It kind of depends on exactly what infrastructure and safety you are talking about Farmer-Rick Feb 2023 #67
I am former railroader, you are spot on! Puppyjive Feb 2023 #26
Rentier capitalism? Nasruddin Feb 2023 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author Hiawatha Pete Feb 2023 #33
Dynamic braking has been used since the coming of the diesel electric locomotives. flashman13 Feb 2023 #34
"dynamic braking has evolved and gotten better" Hiawatha Pete Feb 2023 #36
This is how they work Puppyjive Feb 2023 #43
I know, see 2nd last line in my op. Good explanation for others though. n/t Hiawatha Pete Feb 2023 #44
AC Locomotives like the AC4400 which use inverter control have better dynamic braking range Hiawatha Pete Feb 2023 #58
That was very interesting. Liberal In Texas Feb 2023 #37
Your second point is what I was thinking, as well as raising their shipping rate, as well. JudyM Feb 2023 #66
Rail tax of $100,000 per mile traveled would be a start MichMan Feb 2023 #69
Think of all the jobs a federally owned rail system outlet provide. Not to mention flying_wahini Feb 2023 #41
This won't help much in the derailment dept. but, Mr. Evil Feb 2023 #45
Lil ole me thoroughly enjoyed the conversation on this thread. sprinkleeninow Feb 2023 #46
As Bill-O liked to say... czarjak Feb 2023 #47
Pigs won't ride on trains anymore liberal N proud Feb 2023 #48
Great post. Very informative. Thanks. n/t Captain Stern Feb 2023 #49
Excellent post. Thanks for the information. momto3 Feb 2023 #50
Electrification of our railways would take 100 yrs to accomplish oldsoftie Feb 2023 #51
Thank You For This !!! GGoss Feb 2023 #52
So grateful Delphinus Feb 2023 #53
Tort reform also contributes to the RR cutting corners. Dustlawyer Feb 2023 #55
With a better rail system we could reduce oil dependency. twodogsbarking Feb 2023 #57
At least until moving freight by trucks becomes cheaper.... MichMan Feb 2023 #70
Saw this earlier on FB. LiberalFighter Feb 2023 #61
"...big profits from their obsolete systems" Yes. Grins Feb 2023 #65
I think there is a big difference in how we deal with railroads compared to other countries tornado34jh Feb 2023 #68
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