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In reply to the discussion: I still haven't seen any evidence of the NSA spying on Americans. [View all]phleshdef
(11,936 posts)61. I'm still operating under the assumption that wiretapping is only being done...
...with the standard warrant that only covers particular individuals. There is plenty of legal precedent established by past court cases that says that phone calls made on your own private phone can't be intercepted without a warrant.
Emails on the other hands are a different question. I believe we need more legal precedent there. I'm inclined to say that it depends on the privacy agreement that you and your email provider both agree to.
Google's privacy policy states:
For legal reasons
We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google if we have a good-faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of the information is reasonably necessary to:
meet any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request.
enforce applicable Terms of Service, including investigation of potential violations.
detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security or technical issues.
protect against harm to the rights, property or safety of Google, our users or the public as required or permitted by law.;
We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google if we have a good-faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of the information is reasonably necessary to:
meet any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request.
enforce applicable Terms of Service, including investigation of potential violations.
detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security or technical issues.
protect against harm to the rights, property or safety of Google, our users or the public as required or permitted by law.;
That last part can be interpreted with a fairly broad reading in my opinion. Its saying that if Google administrators believe that its necessary to disclose information to protect against the harm of the public, then they will disclose it. Everyone who signs up for an account is forced to agree to this as well and as far as I know, there is no law saying they can't allow the government to have that information within those parameters.
Don't get me wrong. I want this NSA bullshit scaled down about 20 notches. But my feeling is, the laws are not structured the way we would probably prefer them to be or how some might assume.
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Judgments? If the poster says she hasn't seen any evidence of NSA spying, why isn't that good enough
AnotherMcIntosh
Aug 2013
#3
I don't need the likes of you telling me how to make judgments, that's for sure.
DisgustipatedinCA
Aug 2013
#106
It's not the stuff you know, it's the unknown you should be paranoid about!
DontTreadOnMe
Aug 2013
#6
and if that evidence was posted here, the poster would have to flee to russia lol nt
msongs
Aug 2013
#7
Wha... WHA!!?!?!! You DOUBT Limbaugh, SNOWDEN, Greenwald, Some Random Guy on a blog!!?!?!?!?!
uponit7771
Aug 2013
#8
http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/nsa-surveillance-order-explained-aclu
Warren Stupidity
Aug 2013
#10
"regularly tracking" and "potentially" in the same sentence is rather odd phrasing.
randome
Aug 2013
#14
nobody is seriously contesting that the government hasn't been engaged
Warren Stupidity
Aug 2013
#23
Could and actually are doing are 2 different things altogether. When I worked in law enforcement I
appleannie1
Aug 2013
#129
The problem with the ACLU's argument is that it has been tossed out of court
Warren Stupidity
Aug 2013
#143
"if" = she hasn't been presented with evidence...but who gives a shit about facts?
uponit7771
Aug 2013
#49
The government itself TOLD US ALL that they ARE spying on us but that is not enough for the OP
KurtNYC
Aug 2013
#95
They are collecting and storing our data communications without warrant or probable cause
davidn3600
Aug 2013
#26
Its not "our" data, it actually belongs to the companies that provide us with these services.
phleshdef
Aug 2013
#51
I'm still operating under the assumption that wiretapping is only being done...
phleshdef
Aug 2013
#61
The emails belong to you. The routing logs belong to me (or whoever your mail provider is)
Recursion
Aug 2013
#144
So, when we send a letter by regular mail, the words don't belong to us, either?
Th1onein
Aug 2013
#68
Nope. You bought that envelope from a company, right? And the paper. And the pen.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2013
#120
USPS has taken photos of the outside of every letter mailed since World War 1
Recursion
Aug 2013
#145
Good point, Davidn3600, this information is gathered by the communication companies. The
Thinkingabout
Aug 2013
#101
For once, I agree with you. When actual US terrorist attacks occurred, NSA spying was useless.
leveymg
Aug 2013
#33
I had hopes for constructive change to CIA Counter-terrorism operations in 2008.
leveymg
Aug 2013
#160
You'd think in those 20,000 files, there'd be at least one recording of a phone call...
millennialmax
Aug 2013
#34
Good. Apparently, Snowden revealed nothing and they can call off the dogs and return his passport.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Aug 2013
#55
Yeah, he told us nothing, plus everyone already knew it all already, plus it's a danger to national
GoneFishin
Aug 2013
#60
Well shit... Hey kids! Fold the tents! ProSense has links to ProSense posts proving no spying!
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2013
#62
Collecting logs of everyone's calls, emails and websites = looking outside at crap...
limpyhobbler
Aug 2013
#70
"logs" = hell yes, if that's all they're collecting by law that's equivalent of looking at people in
uponit7771
Aug 2013
#71
So you're saying everyone's phone and internet use is public information like something hanging on a
limpyhobbler
Aug 2013
#72
No, you said logs...I know the difference between "use" and logs like what IP address's a computer
uponit7771
Aug 2013
#73
So you're saying everyone's phone & internet logs are public information like something hanging on
limpyhobbler
Aug 2013
#78
The people sending the email don't own the switches, like people don't own the street they travel on
uponit7771
Aug 2013
#84
But there is a reasonable expectation of privacy with web browsing history.
limpyhobbler
Aug 2013
#86
This is nonsense. It would be completely illegal for a citizen hack in and read such logs.
limpyhobbler
Aug 2013
#97
No, internet routers are run by organizations. Companies, governments, universities.
limpyhobbler
Aug 2013
#99
Warrants that require collection of data of millions of people not suspected of any crime...
limpyhobbler
Aug 2013
#139
It's one one of those open your eyes experiences, not close your eyes and imagine
on point
Aug 2013
#83
Uh, Why would the DEA have to perform "parallel construction" (read: Lie in court) to cover up
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2013
#105
The DEA is getting tips from the NSA and the DEA is covering it up in court. That's obvious.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2013
#117
well nixon didn't spy and didn't lie so i guess it's ok for our government to have toys like this.
unblock
Aug 2013
#126
You would think that if Snowden had something, it would be evidence of that very thing
liberal N proud
Aug 2013
#127
I'm not white or that young, but it's an interesting attempt at a personal attack. n/t
ProSense
Aug 2013
#164