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Samantha

(9,314 posts)
53. This is a very thoughtful post
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:21 PM
Oct 2013

I remember the shutdown in the 90s very distinctly. I would like to say, however, those times are not these days.

I am not disputing any legislator's right to vote or to coordinate a strategy.

I do think what is happening today is beyond political. Some of the participants, legislators along with those who donate to their campaigns, are so extremely to the right they fight to re-make this Country into something other than a democratic society. I am sure from the news that has been reported you can think of many examples of this.

What I am looking for is a legitimate (read legal) way to interfere. I do think it is possible to make a case that one cannot find "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" while facing each new day without food to eat or a home to call his or her own. It is also kind of difficult if one cannot access affordable health care. And I will not pretend to know how a parent must feel to learn his or her child cannot access cancer treatments due to the financial crisis created, yes deliberately created, by a partisan political player or players. I can't imagine it, I can't imagine it.

So if the only legitimate way to fight back is to find another venue in which rests a stop-gap to the extremists, we all need to be looking for it, I would think.

The closest I have come is to present the risk to our national security and a civil tort which is so weak, I did not post it. But take a look at the national security angle:

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/325829-spy-agencies-warn-shutdown-will-hurt-national-security

"According to the Defense Department's shutdown plan, intelligence and surveillance activities necessary for national security are excepted from the shutdown. But the document notes that "general political and economic intelligence unrelated to ongoing or contingency military operations" are not excepted.

Clapper and NSA Director Gen. Keith Alexander will testify about their controversial surveillance programs at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing Wednesday.

Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) warned on Tuesday that the furloughs will "cripple" the CIA, the NSA, the Defense Intelligence Agency and other intelligence offices.

"Our shutdown is the biggest gift we could possibly give our enemies," she said in a speech on the Senate floor."
(emphasis added).

You are obviously very intelligent. Perhaps you could give some thought to legitimate ways citizens can fight back rather than sit on the sidelines and watch its economy crumble and its Constitutionally-guaranteed rights evaporate.

Thank you for posting on our thread.

Sam

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis landolfi Oct 2013 #1
Thank you for your response Samantha Oct 2013 #2
Thank you for commenting 2naSalit Oct 2013 #5
Thank you for 2naSalit Oct 2013 #3
Totally fascinating Samantha Oct 2013 #7
I agree that "malice" 2naSalit Oct 2013 #10
And for actual evidence... 2naSalit Oct 2013 #4
You can't criminalize legislators' actions in proposing or voting on a bill pinboy3niner Oct 2013 #6
And here is the definition which I quoted in my original thread Samantha Oct 2013 #9
I think the comments were made by 2naSalit Oct 2013 #12
I thought the individual I heard speak was referencing the NSA Samantha Oct 2013 #18
The only thing I could find 2naSalit Oct 2013 #24
I liked the words "betraying America" because that is exactly what they are doing Samantha Oct 2013 #25
I have no doubt that you are sincere pinboy3niner Oct 2013 #15
What we are 2naSalit Oct 2013 #17
Exactly (n/t) Samantha Oct 2013 #23
Of course you grant this same right for those that disagree with Dem policies, right? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #40
Of course she would! Samantha Oct 2013 #54
"I believe she is currently tied up in the woods" Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #55
So in your opinion we citizens should sit quietly in the bleachers and say nothing but hope Samantha Oct 2013 #20
Of course we don't sit quietly, we aggressively OPPOSE them pinboy3niner Oct 2013 #22
While it is arguable that what the Repubs are doing is "equivalent" to treason, Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #8
I am not suggesting they could be arrested for the way they vote on a bill Samantha Oct 2013 #11
and that is 2naSalit Oct 2013 #13
Well, wait a minute Samantha Oct 2013 #21
Even if it is "collusion" its simply not illegal. onenote Oct 2013 #49
This is a very thoughtful post Samantha Oct 2013 #53
Another factor in this 2naSalit Oct 2013 #14
I looked back and found the reference to that article Samantha Oct 2013 #16
An important point at another thread 2naSalit Oct 2013 #19
I see this as the beginning of the second chapter of the civil war Tumbulu Oct 2013 #26
I would appear taht they 2naSalit Oct 2013 #28
Like you, I fear that this is far more serious than Tumbulu Oct 2013 #30
It very well could be Samantha Oct 2013 #29
Thank you for starting it- it is full of thought provoking Tumbulu Oct 2013 #31
Thank you for posting on our thread Samantha Oct 2013 #34
Yeah, and when we were fighting WW2 the Japanese printed all sorts of unflattering Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #41
Excellent post! Tumbulu Oct 2013 #27
Excellent thread, will return to this and the link post tomorrow. freshwest Oct 2013 #32
K&R thanks Sam! Cha Oct 2013 #33
Doesn't the PATRIOT Act say something G_j Oct 2013 #35
Hmmm 2naSalit Oct 2013 #36
there is also the issue of national security, G_j Oct 2013 #37
That's also a good point 2naSalit Oct 2013 #38
thanks for your efforts! nt G_j Oct 2013 #39
Oops, responded above before I saw this Samantha Oct 2013 #44
I thought it was an excellent question and planned to see what I could find as well Samantha Oct 2013 #43
So in the PATRIOT Act, as per Wiki... 2naSalit Oct 2013 #42
Kudos to 2naSalit Oct 2013 #45
Yes, very good Tumbulu Oct 2013 #46
That requires 2naSalit Oct 2013 #48
Thanks to another diligent 2naSalit Oct 2013 #47
Are you being serious? DragonBorn Oct 2013 #50
Welcome to Ignore (n/t) Samantha Oct 2013 #51
Wow! Just Wow! oldhippie Oct 2013 #52
Another thread that has some good info 2naSalit Oct 2013 #56
Treason Party Graphic ... napkinz Oct 2013 #57
Thank you so much for posting this - it is so appropriate Samantha Oct 2013 #59
Well thought out post! K&R B Calm Oct 2013 #58
Thank you - I am really glad you liked it Samantha Oct 2013 #60
This borders on legal quackery. dairydog91 Oct 2013 #61
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Economic Treason: The def...»Reply #53