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dairydog91

(951 posts)
61. This borders on legal quackery.
Sun Oct 6, 2013, 02:01 PM
Oct 2013

Congressional members have extensive immunity under Article One, Section 6. Yes, they can do stuff that would be a crime anywhere else if they do it while they are legislating (See, for example, Mike Gravel entering reams of classified information into the Congressional Record).

Legislators aren't immune against charges of Treason, but that is a technical term under the Constitution. Specifically, it is "levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort". Those are used way, WAY more narrowly than you seem to think they are. Levying war is levying war; it's not going to apply until John Boehner signs a formal declaration of war against the United States or starts levying a rebel army. As for "aid and comfort", about the cases you'll find where the U.S. charged someone with treason involved the actual provision of services, weapons, or supplies to a country which the U.S. was at war with. Treason is not "John Boehner is using Congress's power of the purse to extract political concessions", it is "Rand Paul provided AK-47s to al Qaeda, shanked a pilot, and flew a plane into the Federal Reserve Building". Even defaulting is not treason; it's a choice by legislators to default.

This is not a grey area; bringing a treason case against a Congressman for voting or refusing to vote is spectacularly out of sync with the precedents. The only possible reason to try to bring this as a legal case is that you hope Antonin Scalia dies of a heart attack as all 9 Justices howl with laughter at the idea of bringing treason charges against a legislator for voting in a manner which you find disagreeable. Seriously, here's the legal principle you're advancing: A President can declare that members of Congress, by supporting an economic/fiscal policy he disagrees with, are committing treason and can hence be prosecuted as traitors. If Congress can be punished in such a manner for voting, it is basically worthless as an independent entity. The concept you're advocating, in practice, is basically a populist military dictatorship.

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the hue and cry that would arise by the Republicans would accuse President Obama and his Attorney General of using the power of their offices to retaliate against their political opponents.

Considering that is what they would doing, it would seem like it would be an accurate charge on the Republicans' part.

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Malfeasance has been defined by appellate courts in other jurisdictions as a wrongful act which the actor has no legal right to do

Which is why this is not malfeasance. There is no such thing as a vote that a legislator does not have the legal right to make. They might pass a law which is unconstitutional, and the courts cannot enforce, but that doesn't mean that it is illegal for the legislature to vote that way. The legislature can vote to turn Wednesday into "Holocaust Appreciation Day", or vote to load the entire Social Security trust fund into a rocket and shoot it into the sun, or vote to create the Department of Twerking. By definition, the legislature makes the laws. The Constitution is the only bounds on Congressional power, and it does not obligate Congress to vote to borrow money.

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis landolfi Oct 2013 #1
Thank you for your response Samantha Oct 2013 #2
Thank you for commenting 2naSalit Oct 2013 #5
Thank you for 2naSalit Oct 2013 #3
Totally fascinating Samantha Oct 2013 #7
I agree that "malice" 2naSalit Oct 2013 #10
And for actual evidence... 2naSalit Oct 2013 #4
You can't criminalize legislators' actions in proposing or voting on a bill pinboy3niner Oct 2013 #6
And here is the definition which I quoted in my original thread Samantha Oct 2013 #9
I think the comments were made by 2naSalit Oct 2013 #12
I thought the individual I heard speak was referencing the NSA Samantha Oct 2013 #18
The only thing I could find 2naSalit Oct 2013 #24
I liked the words "betraying America" because that is exactly what they are doing Samantha Oct 2013 #25
I have no doubt that you are sincere pinboy3niner Oct 2013 #15
What we are 2naSalit Oct 2013 #17
Exactly (n/t) Samantha Oct 2013 #23
Of course you grant this same right for those that disagree with Dem policies, right? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #40
Of course she would! Samantha Oct 2013 #54
"I believe she is currently tied up in the woods" Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #55
So in your opinion we citizens should sit quietly in the bleachers and say nothing but hope Samantha Oct 2013 #20
Of course we don't sit quietly, we aggressively OPPOSE them pinboy3niner Oct 2013 #22
While it is arguable that what the Repubs are doing is "equivalent" to treason, Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #8
I am not suggesting they could be arrested for the way they vote on a bill Samantha Oct 2013 #11
and that is 2naSalit Oct 2013 #13
Well, wait a minute Samantha Oct 2013 #21
Even if it is "collusion" its simply not illegal. onenote Oct 2013 #49
This is a very thoughtful post Samantha Oct 2013 #53
Another factor in this 2naSalit Oct 2013 #14
I looked back and found the reference to that article Samantha Oct 2013 #16
An important point at another thread 2naSalit Oct 2013 #19
I see this as the beginning of the second chapter of the civil war Tumbulu Oct 2013 #26
I would appear taht they 2naSalit Oct 2013 #28
Like you, I fear that this is far more serious than Tumbulu Oct 2013 #30
It very well could be Samantha Oct 2013 #29
Thank you for starting it- it is full of thought provoking Tumbulu Oct 2013 #31
Thank you for posting on our thread Samantha Oct 2013 #34
Yeah, and when we were fighting WW2 the Japanese printed all sorts of unflattering Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #41
Excellent post! Tumbulu Oct 2013 #27
Excellent thread, will return to this and the link post tomorrow. freshwest Oct 2013 #32
K&R thanks Sam! Cha Oct 2013 #33
Doesn't the PATRIOT Act say something G_j Oct 2013 #35
Hmmm 2naSalit Oct 2013 #36
there is also the issue of national security, G_j Oct 2013 #37
That's also a good point 2naSalit Oct 2013 #38
thanks for your efforts! nt G_j Oct 2013 #39
Oops, responded above before I saw this Samantha Oct 2013 #44
I thought it was an excellent question and planned to see what I could find as well Samantha Oct 2013 #43
So in the PATRIOT Act, as per Wiki... 2naSalit Oct 2013 #42
Kudos to 2naSalit Oct 2013 #45
Yes, very good Tumbulu Oct 2013 #46
That requires 2naSalit Oct 2013 #48
Thanks to another diligent 2naSalit Oct 2013 #47
Are you being serious? DragonBorn Oct 2013 #50
Welcome to Ignore (n/t) Samantha Oct 2013 #51
Wow! Just Wow! oldhippie Oct 2013 #52
Another thread that has some good info 2naSalit Oct 2013 #56
Treason Party Graphic ... napkinz Oct 2013 #57
Thank you so much for posting this - it is so appropriate Samantha Oct 2013 #59
Well thought out post! K&R B Calm Oct 2013 #58
Thank you - I am really glad you liked it Samantha Oct 2013 #60
This borders on legal quackery. dairydog91 Oct 2013 #61
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Economic Treason: The def...»Reply #61