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lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

123. Your argument depends upon him self identifying as a misognynist. Right? Surely you can see that?

Wed Dec 18, 2013, 09:51 PM

Dec 2013

Last edited Wed Dec 18, 2013, 10:29 PM - Edit history (1)

"Smoking is addictive. I know because I'm addicted."

is like

"A desire for jealous control of all women causes misogyny. I know because ____________"

You would have me accept "...all y'all other men are misogynists!" as an answer.

I'm in a position to know that it's false and he is therefore wrong.

I'm sorry that I'm not a sensitive enough guy. C'est la vie.

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There is nothing that causes outrage among men like female sexual autonomy. [View all] Recursion Dec 2013 OP

women are not a passive receptacle all forms of male violence FatBuddy Dec 2013 #1

Sexuality is used as a way to control both men and women quinnox Dec 2013 #2

I grant the large point, and sex has always been used to control men too Recursion Dec 2013 #3

I would tend to agree with you on this quinnox Dec 2013 #6

Really? What about all the posts that seem to resent men "jacking off"? Bonobo Dec 2013 #126

Who actually resents men for "jacking off"? No one sane. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #129

"Jack off", "jerk off", "get their rocks off", "get their jollies"... Bonobo Dec 2013 #131

It may be, on some level. Rooted in a time when masturbation was considered shameful. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #135

I agree that it is not that simple. Bonobo Dec 2013 #136

Yeah, but we're the only targets of all current bagger legislation, not men. catbyte Dec 2013 #4

I can't argue with that quinnox Dec 2013 #8

Bingo Recursion Dec 2013 #11

I'm thinking of wording that another way-- BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2013 #47

or posts about the same Puzzledtraveller Dec 2013 #5

. Squinch Dec 2013 #82

So how do you deal with your rage? Capt. Obvious Dec 2013 #7

I don't know that I have to "deal with" it; I've just felt it Recursion Dec 2013 #9

I've thought many times that men who have hostility problems BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2013 #51

You said it, Blanche! Great post! CTyankee Dec 2013 #86

I think that's the root of it: we have "excused male aggression...for millenia, while Squinch Dec 2013 #90

You made some excellent points FrodosPet Dec 2013 #145

It might work the same way for jobs The2ndWheel Dec 2013 #146

Well, that's a completely different topic, but OK. Squinch Dec 2013 #148

Excellent post! In_The_Wind Dec 2013 #10

What you are feeling is jealousy, and you're not uniquely vulnerable to it because you are a man. nt lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #12

That's what I was thinking. woolldog Dec 2013 #28

Agreed LordGlenconner Dec 2013 #48

Why do you guys take this so personally? Like it applies equally to *all* men? nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #107

The OP is a big logic fail. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #114

When has men's sexual agency ever been restricted to the same degree as women's? nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #119

Bullshit. MadrasT Dec 2013 #128

That's cool. woolldog Dec 2013 #132

Half of Taylor Swift's music catalog just as an example. nt ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #160

Organized religion was primative(unenlightened) man's means of controlling society. Dawson Leery Dec 2013 #13

It would be nice if you added just one word to your subject line. trotsky Dec 2013 #14

But are observations of large-scale social phenomena necessarily a "broad brush"? nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #109

Do you think ALL men are "outraged" by a woman choosing a different partner? trotsky Dec 2013 #142

No. But I didn't take the OP as a statement on all men, universally. Just a general observation. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #153

Large Brush you are using there. bvar22 Dec 2013 #15

Umm... speak for yourself. DanTex Dec 2013 #16

^^^THIS^^^ cherokeeprogressive Dec 2013 #57

Yes there is. Bad beer. postulater Dec 2013 #17

K&R beautifully said n/t LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #18

What a mess. mathematic Dec 2013 #19

Where are men widely shamed for their sexual expression? BainsBane Dec 2013 #44

well, I think for men to be anti-choice, it is really about the question of women being CTyankee Dec 2013 #89

Very true. Stomping down and controlling women is at the very heart of the patriarchal monotheisms. Arugula Latte Dec 2013 #20

Well, I dunno... pipi_k Dec 2013 #21

You won't get any argument from me. nt raccoon Dec 2013 #22

I think you meant "some" men RedCappedBandit Dec 2013 #23

Probably true, but it depends on the context, right? Helen Borg Dec 2013 #24

What if a woman uses her sexual autonomy to choose to become a porn actress? redgreenandblue Dec 2013 #25

Most anti-porn activists are right-wing men. I think they would be the "outraged" ones. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #113

I first read that as "anatomy" jberryhill Dec 2013 #26

++ FarCenter Dec 2013 #68

"among men" <---- ALL OF THEM! NoOneMan Dec 2013 #27

Get over yourself Mopar151 Dec 2013 #31

No NoOneMan Dec 2013 #46

So, I take it you realized that your original post, before all your edits, the one that Squinch Dec 2013 #32

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #38

Well, I voted to hide it. Squinch Dec 2013 #40

It should no more be hidden than an OP that says all "men/women/white people/AA's/heteros/".... NoOneMan Dec 2013 #42

Well, but what you said was Squinch Dec 2013 #45

Thats a perfectly acceptable response to prejudice and stereotypes NoOneMan Dec 2013 #49

"you happen to have had 1 single bad experience" BainsBane Dec 2013 #33

Yes, broadbrush stereotypes against an entire gender tend to create reactions that miss the point NoOneMan Dec 2013 #39

Do you think Aerows Dec 2013 #78

Yes, but its not reason to hate an entire group of people due to their gender, race, religion, etc. NoOneMan Dec 2013 #85

I do not understand this Bok_Tukalo Dec 2013 #29

I would say 'some men', rather than 'men', which seems overly-inclusive. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #30

The point is about endemic sexism BainsBane Dec 2013 #36

You mean the type of sexism that leads to broadbrush stereotypes? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #41

No, I don't mean having your feelings hurt BainsBane Dec 2013 #50

Oh, so now ignorant stereotypical broadbrushes just hurt our poor wittle feelings NoOneMan Dec 2013 #52

Which evidently you find more significant BainsBane Dec 2013 #53

Oh, ffs! AAO Dec 2013 #58

If you want to discuss the violence against women, do you blame ALL men first? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #60

I blame misogyny BainsBane Dec 2013 #66

I didn't miss the point. Rather, I didn't get to it. I stopped at the stereotype. NoOneMan Dec 2013 #69

Seems to me you have no idea of what sexism or racism are BainsBane Dec 2013 #70

Yep, thats it. My objection to prejudice is just a bothersome character flaw NoOneMan Dec 2013 #72

Yeah, because everybody knows there's no basis whatsoever for women to be distrustful of men. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #116

It certainly is, and I don't dispute that. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #43

In some ways it's worse than 50 yrs ago BainsBane Dec 2013 #56

I do see some of that in certain online avenues. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #61

I agree he might have phrased it more carefully BainsBane Dec 2013 #62

"But many would respond the same regardless" NoOneMan Dec 2013 #64

So the fact that 1 in 3 women is abused by a man is a "stereotype"? nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #120

I would agree that it could have been phrased better LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #73

+1 nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #121

Well said. And it is an interesting area for discussion. But, of course, that won't happen. Squinch Dec 2013 #34

What a ridiculous post tkmorris Dec 2013 #35

Could you please restate this? The Green Manalishi Dec 2013 #37

Could you at least title the OP: "causes outrage among SOME men" AAO Dec 2013 #54

Might be YOUR issue whatchamacallit Dec 2013 #55

Well the main flaw in your logic is... SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #59

The secondary flaw is the presumption that women don't feel the same thing. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #65

The idea that they don't is sexist in an of itself Major Nikon Dec 2013 #80

I agree tazkcmo Dec 2013 #79

There is nothing that causes outrage like a hasty generalization TheSarcastinator Dec 2013 #63

I'm not outraged that women don't want to fuck you. Your issues are your own. Throd Dec 2013 #67

Not all men. Feral Child Dec 2013 #71

This isn't the Sudan swishyfeet Dec 2013 #74

3% of rapists in this country do jail time BainsBane Dec 2013 #101

Speak for yourself DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #75

Thank you Aerows Dec 2013 #76

I can think of lots of thing nt arely staircase Dec 2013 #77

This thread is very interesting. athena Dec 2013 #81

Why is his generalization based on a personal anecdote any more valid... lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #84

You are not addressing the argument he made. athena Dec 2013 #100

If you want to start a conversation, you don't accuse others of something right off the bat The2ndWheel Dec 2013 #106

That's not what he said. athena Dec 2013 #122

Fair enough The2ndWheel Dec 2013 #133

What if it's something they're actually *doing*? If only subconsciously? nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #124

Then it will be much more difficult to consciously change it The2ndWheel Dec 2013 #137

Agreed. Some will more or less willingly acquiesce to change, others will have to be dragged nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #139

You're paraphrasing and projecting your own views. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #111

Nice try. athena Dec 2013 #118

Your argument depends upon him self identifying as a misognynist. Right? Surely you can see that? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #123

He did reveal personal weaknesses The2ndWheel Dec 2013 #141

Bravo! Squinch Dec 2013 #152

Personally, I thought his observation was very astute. smirkymonkey Dec 2013 #155

This thread goes beyond someone recognizing their own person actions or instincts NoOneMan Dec 2013 #88

You have no idea what the OP is arguing BainsBane Dec 2013 #102

I don't know that I'd go so far as to call it "disturbing." Sexual jealousy/frustration is a common- nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #125

Really, the issue is what a culture does with it. Every culture uses it's rage cudgel Squinch Dec 2013 #149

I don't find it inappropriate either. And I've never physically harmed anyone but I've certainly nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #154

That is someone who at least has the awareness to work toward egalitarianism BainsBane Dec 2013 #96

Exactly! athena Dec 2013 #104

Yes, because we are raised in a society with endemic sexism and racism BainsBane Dec 2013 #105

For one example BainsBane Dec 2013 #83

"Some of the same people..." NoOneMan Dec 2013 #91

I'm not calling out names BainsBane Dec 2013 #93

+1000 smirkymonkey Dec 2013 #156

Bullshit! Springslips Dec 2013 #87

Are you here trying to find a girlfriend something? TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #92

Since the obvious eludes many here BainsBane Dec 2013 #94

. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #95

From the body of your post The2ndWheel Dec 2013 #97

Do you think there is any difference between men in general and women in general Squinch Dec 2013 #150

If a grasp of "the obvious" requires reading all of DU every day... TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #98

If you go back 10,000 years, you'll find that religions worshiped the female. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #99

Yeah .... those men ... Trajan Dec 2013 #103

Please don't project your rage issues on to other men LittleBlue Dec 2013 #108

Yes, of course. They hate us for our freedoms. nt Courtesy Flush Dec 2013 #110

"It has angered me when women wanted to be sexually involved with men other than me" Kaleva Dec 2013 #112

Wanting to control other human beings is a bad part of human nature. Bonobo Dec 2013 #115

Someone is into the Christmas cheer a tad early! whistler162 Dec 2013 #117

LOL, I've always enjoyed it - far from outraged;) grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #127

Well stated. MadrasT Dec 2013 #130

Broadbrush attacks calling out an entire gender for collective guilt will do that. Throd Dec 2013 #134

Too many of the replies are hung up on "all" versus "some" Jim Lane Dec 2013 #138

I don't care if a woman wants to fuck other men. PeteSelman Dec 2013 #140

Someone upthread said, "This isn't the Sudan." That is true, but Squinch Dec 2013 #143

This is illogical Harmony Blue Dec 2013 #144

How many men are straight, yet some are homophobes darkangel218 Dec 2013 #151

Those men are from traditional Harmony Blue Dec 2013 #157

Everyone's so flipped out about your subject line, when the point is really your last sentence. CrispyQ Dec 2013 #147

Let me offer a different take Harmony Blue Dec 2013 #158

Sooo....when a woman says.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #159

Speak for yourself. 99Forever Dec 2013 #161

Whoa. A bit TMI there with your inner rages. Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #162

I believe the OP has abandoned this steaming pile of illogic. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #163