General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Yes, Nader cost Al Gore the presidency in 2000. [View all]davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Nader took votes away from Gore? Are you suggesting that, any time a third party candidate runs and someone actually votes for them - it's taking votes away from the better candidate? From the more "electable"? Perhaps we need to mandate it by law then, that there are only two parties - that no one else is allowed to bring their view points or their candidates to the table. Perhaps we should further dictate that only democrats who are popular with the media may be permitted to run.
This strikes me as fearful politics, as the politics of a people who have become so apathetic and cringing that we are willing to vote for someone we don't like and don't approve of - just so long as they are "electable".
If Bernie Sanders runs as an independent - even if he runs against a more moderate democrat such as Clinton - he will get my vote. You're damn right I'll vote for a third party candidate when he better represents my interests, my principles, and pretty much everything I believe in. So take away my democrat card - go ahead. Blame me and people like me who vote for the better candidates as opposed to the letter. Please do.
This is the kind of nonsense that is ultimately going to kill both parties. We see it happening right now with the established GOP and the tea party lunatics. By driving away third party candidates, by blaming them for things that actually aren't their fault - by alienating anyone who is unwilling to vote in lockstep with us, we do far more harm to our cause than good.
Perhaps it's time. Perhaps it's time we had more of a choice. Perhaps it's time that the American people had someone who really represents THEM, as opposed to the 1%. Everyone who says it can't be done forgets history. They forget the wall that could not be conquered. They forget the ship that could not be sunk. They forget the black man, who, because of the color of his skin, could, supposedly, never be President. They forget that we landed on the moon, they forget the inventions of wonderful medicines, brilliant technologies and sciences.
The impossible becomes possible all the time. The politics of fear, of, "Let's hold our noses and vote for the one who doesn't suck quite as bad..." is no longer good enough for me.
It is my right, your right, the right of every American citizen - to vote for whomever they please. I will not be brow beaten, bullied, or pushed into voting for the lesser of two evils or holding my nose at the polls - voting against my principles.
It would be great if Sanders ran as a democrat - but even if he does not, if I can - I will vote for him. I would just as eagerly cast my vote for Elizabeth Warren.
Finally - no, it's actually not Nader's fault. Gore WON the election. He won. Period. There is rarely anymore serious argument about this among those who have studied the election of 2000. Nader did not steal the election by earning - earning - a few votes. Bush CO, through the despicable application of coercion, voter intimidation, lies, media manipulation - they stole this election. The Supreme Court stole the election. A number of those who counted the vote, or mysteriously "lost" truckloads full of ballots - they stole the election.
Once again - it is a case of blaming the wrong people. There is nothing inherently grand or wonderful about the two party system. Democrats are, to me, far preferable to republicans... in general. I would still not vote for a Democrat like Lieberman. I would still vote for a third party candidate over certain blue dog democrats who we all know quite well.
Is the democratic tent no longer large enough to include independents, greens - and more left of center liberals? You know what - I think it is. I think we can be democrats without surrendering our principles and voting for candidates we don't like. I think we can be democrats even if we don't like Clinton or Obama. I think we can be democrats even if we vote third party.
Hate Nader all you want. Hate third party voters or independents. Blame them for all the ills of our corrupted system. The reality of the situation is that it is far more the fault of the established democrat and republican parties. The corporations and the money have taken over. The media tells us who we're allowed to vote for. Talking heads suggest we're traitors if we should ever dare to differ from the majority.
Screw that. I'm a democrat - but you do not own my vote.