General Discussion

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)

372. And do we blame Nader for corporate takeover of the Democratic Party?

Fri Jul 4, 2014, 10:28 AM

Jul 2014

Or do we take an honest look at what has happened to a system that allows corporations to buy elections and control our elected officials or do we keep beating the If only Nader had dropped out of Florida dead horse?

Blaming voters and trying to make them feel guilty for looking for alternatives to a party "that left them" eight years before the SCOTUS selected Bush over Gore is not the way to bring them to the polls.

Institutions become obsolete not because the people they were created to serve fails them, they fail because they stopped serving the people they were created to serve.

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Yes, Nader cost Al Gore the presidency in 2000. [View all] DanTex Jul 2014 OP

Well said. Thanks. nt el_bryanto Jul 2014 #1

Badly said. AL GORE won the election fasttense Jul 2014 #176

Exactly, Nader is a Republican diversion. I can't believe people still spew these lies. n/t A Simple Game Jul 2014 #198

I can, there is an election coming up. zeemike Jul 2014 #213

People need a scapegoat. Nader fits the bill. [n/t] Maedhros Jul 2014 #218

The Election wouldn't have been close enough to steal without Nader. el_bryanto Jul 2014 #257

Still stolen and that is the crime and should be the focus rather than seen as secondary. TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #292

Neither uncomfortable nor accurate. merrily Jul 2014 #322

The fix was in no matter what Nader did or did not do. fasttense Jul 2014 #361

This assumes that Nader's votes would have been votes for Gore... elzenmahn Jul 2014 #365

The fact that you hated Gore kind of says more than you might have intended it too. nt el_bryanto Jul 2014 #371

I'm fully aware of what I said... elzenmahn Jul 2014 #376

Recced with a kick MohRokTah Jul 2014 #2

Which states would Gore have won if Nader had not taken votes? JDPriestly Jul 2014 #225

Florida would have been enough by itself. JPZenger Jul 2014 #234

In case this is an attempt to bully people into supporting Hillary Clinton, count me out. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #250

Floriduh. nt WhiteTara Jul 2014 #287

And Gore would have gotten those votes if he had geared his choice of vice president JDPriestly Jul 2014 #293

Thanks, most excellent post - eom dreamnightwind Jul 2014 #356

Definitely agree... DoctorRobert Jul 2014 #373

Big ol' kick and and Rec. riqster Jul 2014 #3

No, he really didn't. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #4

Nader bucks the system and they hate him for that Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #5

Nope, Nader LIED to naive supporters like I was. "Not a dime's worth of difference", remember? MH1 Jul 2014 #359

Yes he did. DanTex Jul 2014 #12

It's simple-minded stupidity to assume that all of those votes would have gone to Gore instead. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #14

Not all, but most, and enough to avoid a recount. It's not stupidity, it's what polls suggested. DanTex Jul 2014 #21

No, it isn't: Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #31

The best analysis I've seen suggests that Nader voters would have gone about 60-40 Dem. DanTex Jul 2014 #38

And most of the socialist/workers' party votes would probably have gone to Gore as well. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #44

At 60-40, Nader's vote had far more influence than the Socialist party votes would have. DanTex Jul 2014 #51

A lot of people would have just stayed home because merrily Jul 2014 #325

If more people were like Nader we would be far better off as a country. jtuck004 Jul 2014 #348

You're welcome. merrily Jul 2014 #351

I should have said merrily Jul 2014 #349

Yep dreamnightwind Jul 2014 #357

AL GORE WON the election, don't buy into the RepubliCON spin fasttense Jul 2014 #142

it appears they are selling it reddread Jul 2014 #185

Trying to sell it, anyway. merrily Jul 2014 #326

terrorism has no grip on me reddread Jul 2014 #334

Cowards die a thousand deaths while the brave die only once. merrily Jul 2014 #336

Yes, but it absolved Democrats from any culpability whatsoever. vi5 Jul 2014 #327

You assume that Nader voters would have voted for Gore. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #236

The analyses I've seen suggest that Nader voters would have gone about 60-40 for Gore. DanTex Jul 2014 #238

Let's pretend there was no Nader on the ballot. jeff47 Jul 2014 #16

Not likely at all actually. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #29

Reading. It's a nice thing to try sometimes. jeff47 Jul 2014 #41

I did read Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #56

I'm not saying they don't have the right to do so jeff47 Jul 2014 #62

Essentially, you are. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #104

People have the right to make decisions I don't like. jeff47 Jul 2014 #130

Gore's inability to make a compelling argument to the contrary isn't Nader's fault. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2014 #172

And as I said above, Nader was one piece of the puzzle. jeff47 Jul 2014 #179

Good point about serving to excuse Gore's shortcomings and the malfeasance of the Republicans. A Simple Game Jul 2014 #313

On another thread, Jeff347 accused me of not reading in merrily Jul 2014 #207

"Vote like an idealist in primaries." merrily Jul 2014 #32

Nope, not a joke. jeff47 Jul 2014 #47

Okay, then disingenous. merrily Jul 2014 #71

Nope. jeff47 Jul 2014 #117

This is another lie, Jeff merrily Jul 2014 #190

Then why bring them up? jeff47 Jul 2014 #215

You already settled that to your own satisfaction, Jeff347. merrily Jul 2014 #256

This ^ ^ ^ Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jul 2014 #345

Nader cost Gore votes and Gore had to adjust his campaign because of him. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #37

Yes, he really did. gcomeau Jul 2014 #127

AL Gore DID WIN THE ELECTION fasttense Jul 2014 #129

Also more democrats voted Glaisne Jul 2014 #153

A friend of mine is an example of that. thucythucy Jul 2014 #221

What bullshit*... lame54 Jul 2014 #6

Yes, events can have multiple causes. Nader was a big one, but there are others. DanTex Jul 2014 #18

dream on reddread Jul 2014 #35

Don't necessarily disagree rpannier Jul 2014 #354

PLUS ONE, a whole bunch! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #121

^^^this^^^ progressoid Jul 2014 #194

Spot on. wundermaus Jul 2014 #208

hell, when it's that close, you could argue that bad sushi cost us the election unblock Jul 2014 #7

There is always noise. But Nader wasn't noise. Nader was signal, and in the wrong direction. DanTex Jul 2014 #19

Dems who voted for Nader are a problem. Those who voted for Bush are not a problem? eridani Jul 2014 #381

I subscribe to your explanation. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #134

Damned evil sushi. I knew it! merrily Jul 2014 #178

"Nader is 'supposed' to be on our side". The same could be said about Gore. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #8

This has been your daily pragmatic two-minutes of hate bobduca Jul 2014 #9

You forgot the photo leftstreet Jul 2014 #13

Boo Hiss! bobduca Jul 2014 #25

Where were you Tennessee, could have used you. . nt clarice Jul 2014 #10

Nope! He still didn't. Bush stole it with help from Harris and 5 justices. morningfog Jul 2014 #11

Exactly fasttense Jul 2014 #151

Gore lost because he could not get a majority of the voters in his home state to vote for him. Jenoch Jul 2014 #15

No he didn't. nt City Lights Jul 2014 #17

I went out of my way to say that it wasn't all Nader's fault. DanTex Jul 2014 #24

True, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2014 #20

Remove any of the factors and the 536 votes go away. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #364

What Pins The Culpability On Nader, Sir, Is That He Was The Novel Factor The Magistrate Jul 2014 #374

Nader was among the last of the factors leading to Gore's defeat Orrex Jul 2014 #22

It depends what you mean by "chiefly responsible". DanTex Jul 2014 #30

As long as we allow a range of decisive factors, then I agree Orrex Jul 2014 #34

One reason that identifying the Nader factor is helpful is to prevent something like this DanTex Jul 2014 #45

If it gets out the vote, then I'm all in favor of it. Orrex Jul 2014 #50

So your solution to the claim that the Dems are too corporatist is to drag out the boogeyman? winter is coming Jul 2014 #72

I also feel that the Democrats are too corporatist. DanTex Jul 2014 #77

Every time we lessen that difference, we shoot ourselves in the foot. winter is coming Jul 2014 #105

Single-issue corporatism voters would have been much better served by a Gore presidency. DanTex Jul 2014 #113

"Single-issue corporatism voters would have been much better served by a Gore presidency" winter is coming Jul 2014 #163

And the Nader voters were wrong. DanTex Jul 2014 #174

Please tell me you know corporatism is not a single issue, but affects all. merrily Jul 2014 #175

Of course. All the more reason that arguing that Bush and Gore were the same was stupid. DanTex Jul 2014 #183

Huh? Then why did you say "Of course?" when I posted merrily Jul 2014 #266

I agree that corporatism affects many issues. DanTex Jul 2014 #271

I'll take it up with both of you, because you went along with the idea merrily Jul 2014 #278

I agree with you. DanTex Jul 2014 #280

I don't know that. Neither do you. No one can know it. merrily Jul 2014 #283

We can be pretty confident of it, based on where the two stood on the issues. DanTex Jul 2014 #284

Sorry, but, only in your imagination, can you be confident. merrily Jul 2014 #291

Corporatism is not a single issue. Please see Reply 278. merrily Jul 2014 #281

True enough. n/t winter is coming Jul 2014 #282

Hello! My voter registration is not a marriage vow. merrily Jul 2014 #149

+1. I'm a member, not a captive, of the Democratic party. winter is coming Jul 2014 #171

in the time line of events happening Nader happened first so It is hard put to make him last. Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #109

Al Gore won the vote fasttense Jul 2014 #184

Poorly constructed and self-contradictory position. Orsino Jul 2014 #23

The existence of other factors doesn't change the fact that, if Nader was not on the ballot, DanTex Jul 2014 #27

Stupid sophistry. Orsino Jul 2014 #33

It's not sophistry, it's factual. DanTex Jul 2014 #40

So why not start another thread about all the other factors? Why is this ONE factor, THE factor? progressoid Jul 2014 #202

Well, I haven't seen anyone on DU defend Scalia or Thomas or Katherine Harris. DanTex Jul 2014 #204

If this is a team sport, what do we do with those former Nader and Green voters? progressoid Jul 2014 #219

We vote for liberal candidates in primaries. DanTex Jul 2014 #222

Like Kucinich? Because, as it turned out, he was the only merrily Jul 2014 #305

Liberal isn't an all-or-nothing thing. There are degrees. DanTex Jul 2014 #308

I wouldn't know. I'm not a liberal. I'm a traditional Democrat. merrily Jul 2014 #310

Dupe. Self delete (even though saying it twice might help.) merrily Jul 2014 #311

No real Democrat denies the damage Nader did. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #26

lol reddread Jul 2014 #39

Few people at any point in the political spectrum would deny that. But if you feel guilty, you might stevenleser Jul 2014 #92

No real Scotsman denies the damage Nader did. U4ikLefty Jul 2014 #347

No true Scotsman uses the phrase "real Scotsman." Orsino Jul 2014 #380

Exactly mcar Jul 2014 #28

The problem is nothing is "somehow a good thing for liberal causes." merrily Jul 2014 #36

there are a lot of SCOTUS crimes to cover up this week reddread Jul 2014 #42

exactly. bbgrunt Jul 2014 #260

I'm not sure what you mean. DanTex Jul 2014 #61

Nader was a contributing factor and I just don't get those who can't see that. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #43

So 14 years later, we would still rather demonize Nader than merrily Jul 2014 #49

You can do both at the same time. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #54

No kidding, but, funny, I missed all the DU threads about why he got so many votes. merrily Jul 2014 #82

Gore could have won his home state if he didn't have to spend so much time in other states that hrmjustin Jul 2014 #90

Pulled that Gore bit about winning his home state right out of your elbow. merrily Jul 2014 #100

There is no need to be rude. I said I because it is true. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #111

I wasn't rude. I pointed out that your claim had no basis. merrily Jul 2014 #137

your putting words in my mouth. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #144

oh, so you fudged it, but I'm to blame for putting words in your mouth. merrily Jul 2014 #158

Nader did damage to himself. it is his own fault. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #160

Please see Reply 158. Thanks. merrily Jul 2014 #170

My apologies if I got too argumentative. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #189

Not too argumentative. I, of all people, have no problem with merrily Jul 2014 #199

Well, given that people are still making excuses for Nader and denying his role in 2000, DanTex Jul 2014 #57

Yeah because anyone who supported Nader supported slavery bobduca Jul 2014 #63

Probably not slavery, but some of them probably supported Reaganomics. DanTex Jul 2014 #66

I voted Gore and Kerry, not Nader. But these threads are ludicrous. merrily Jul 2014 #108

Yeah I voted for Gore too bobduca Jul 2014 #126

Not everyone, but I'm sure some are. merrily Jul 2014 #195

Al Gore won the election fasttense Jul 2014 #192

Hello, preacher. Choir, here. merrily Jul 2014 #216

Did the GOPers do this with Ross Perot? leftstreet Jul 2014 #68

92 and 96 were not close. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #165

Not close only because Perot was in the race. merrily Jul 2014 #295

Yes I see your point. What I shoukd have added is that because the race in the end was not razor hrmjustin Jul 2014 #299

Again, a state by state analysis would be required to see merrily Jul 2014 #300

Perot "cost" Bush the popular vote. merrily Jul 2014 #319

Ross Perot split votes evenly between Clinton and Bush... Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #332

Gore ran a lousy campaign and choose a lousy running mate WI_DEM Jul 2014 #46

It is called an election and Gore failed to win those betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #48

Gore would have been much better for progressive goals than Bush. DanTex Jul 2014 #74

Yeah, yeah. Lesser of two evils. Got it. zzzzzz merrily Jul 2014 #116

Gore was the better of the two candidates. By far. DanTex Jul 2014 #124

What you don't seem to grasp, is that you attack Bush for what he merrily Jul 2014 #297

One of the fallacies I often see pushed is embedded in your logic BootinUp Jul 2014 #306

Over 100,000 Iraqis would be alive, I'd call that MUCH LESSER of two evils Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #333

Remind me: How did DLC types, like Lieberman and Clinton, merrily Jul 2014 #335

The Iraq War was only possible with an administration as hellbent on it as Bush's Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #337

But, it had the full throated support of the DLC types, of which merrily Jul 2014 #339

this extremely LAME bogyman is making the propaganda circuits again.. 2banon Jul 2014 #52

people who blame Nader do not believe in democracy noiretextatique Jul 2014 #377

Yes, that was the immediate revelation at the time.. 2banon Jul 2014 #379

It is funny watching people pretend Al Gore didn't win the 2000 election. Rex Jul 2014 #53

He didn't win the presidency. But without Nader, he would have. DanTex Jul 2014 #64

Yes he did he won the popular vote and won the election. Rex Jul 2014 #67

Let me put it this way. He wasn't inaugurated president. Without Nader, he would have been. DanTex Jul 2014 #96

Not true at all, not even close. Rex Jul 2014 #101

Of course it's true. DanTex Jul 2014 #107

Once again not true at all. All Gore won the election by popular vote Rex Jul 2014 #112

Without Nader, it wouldn't have gone to the SCOTUS. Are you seriously denying that? DanTex Jul 2014 #119

Without 300k democratic voters it would have never gone to the SCOTUS. Rex Jul 2014 #128

Like I said, there are multiple causes (did you read the OP?). Nader is (obviously) one reason. DanTex Jul 2014 #133

Well anyone that believed Nader in 2000 was niave. Rex Jul 2014 #139

Again, if you read the OP, I recognize that there are multiple causes. DanTex Jul 2014 #152

Your thread title blames one person for 2000. You give lip service to the rest of the reasons Rex Jul 2014 #169

That's why it's good to read the whole OP. DanTex Jul 2014 #182

I did, but Nader did not cost Gore the Presidency...he actually WON the office he ran for. Rex Jul 2014 #186

It's also funny watching people pretend he was the President from 2001-2009. nt stevenleser Jul 2014 #93

Examples? Rex Jul 2014 #106

lol, so true. nt BootinUp Jul 2014 #132

This message was self-deleted by its author Rex Jul 2014 #188

GOLDSTEIN!!! frylock Jul 2014 #55

Stupid threads like this always remind me of this quote: Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2014 #58

No he did not abelenkpe Jul 2014 #59

Gore lost because of a Republican Coup d'etat rickyhall Jul 2014 #60

Hilariously wrong. MNBrewer Jul 2014 #65

It's funny watching 'DUers' carry water for the GOP. Rex Jul 2014 #69

Some DUers carry water for the NSA, so it shouldn't surprise you too much...[n/t] Maedhros Jul 2014 #228

Gosh, it seems to be the same people. Rex Jul 2014 #232

Just like the "Reagan Democrats" jumped ship and put Ronnie in the White House, Maedhros Jul 2014 #239

BINGO! Rex Jul 2014 #248

it's like an exercise in collective guilt frylock Jul 2014 #352

can you do it standing on one leg? reddread Jul 2014 #70

If we had election rules like Australia does with instant runoff voting, Nader wouldn't matter... cascadiance Jul 2014 #73

we dont even rate recounts, just try to get one for important "close calls" like Prop 37 in CA reddread Jul 2014 #76

I agree completely. We should have IRV. DanTex Jul 2014 #79

And Nader could have gotten more "first round" votes and Gore still would have won... cascadiance Jul 2014 #84

Yup. With IRV, Gore would have won. DanTex Jul 2014 #87

I'd certainly favor instant runoff voting. If nothing else, it would save the time and winter is coming Jul 2014 #83

And greater voter participation in the "runoff" than standard runoffs get. cascadiance Jul 2014 #88

Tell me about it. I always expect to see tumbleweeds at runoffs for municipal elections. n/t winter is coming Jul 2014 #110

Which is why I'm starting to hate the open primary initiatives on Oregon's ballot this year... cascadiance Jul 2014 #181

If Gore had picked a better running mate, less Democrats would have voted for Nader corkhead Jul 2014 #75

Well, that's democracy. marybourg Jul 2014 #78

I've learned that some Dems don't like democracy very much. Rex Jul 2014 #80

In that case, quit yer' bitchin' about everything else, too. DanTex Jul 2014 #86

just for you reddread Jul 2014 #98

Meh. If you have an argument to make, simply make it. DanTex Jul 2014 #102

nothing says "I got nothin" quite like "meh" reddread Jul 2014 #131

LOL. Actually, I think posting a link to a google search says "I got nothin" pretty darn well!! DanTex Jul 2014 #136

dont know ya, dont care reddread Jul 2014 #143

Personal attacks, calling me "stupid", etc. Like I said: meh. DanTex Jul 2014 #155

as I said, reading comprehension is essential n/t reddread Jul 2014 #162

That makes no sense. marybourg Jul 2014 #383

I personally blame Yoko. edbermac Jul 2014 #81

Oh yeah, vote for Lieberman! JEB Jul 2014 #85

This guy is a Dem nightmare! mylye2222 Jul 2014 #95

over the actual Democrat because Bill Clinton supports the non-Democrat and others reddread Jul 2014 #114

i AGREE mylye2222 Jul 2014 #89

Howard Dean taking over the DNC in late 2004 saved the country from a deep slide into the abyss DFW Jul 2014 #122

Yes, no matter how much the Nader-Egotists deny it you nailed it. we can do it Jul 2014 #91

I am a Florida Voter DonCoquixote Jul 2014 #94

Nader cost Gore some votes rock Jul 2014 #97

Actually AlbertCat Jul 2014 #99

I'll keep saying it: The PMRC lost it for Gore. beerandjesus Jul 2014 #103

The 2000 election was STOLEN. MASSIVELY and blatantly stolen... DesertDiamond Jul 2014 #115

and covered up, right here, even now, to the best of their ability reddread Jul 2014 #125

I guess they seem to inadvertently like to carrying the GOPs water around. Rex Jul 2014 #135

Both 2000 AND 2004 where massivly stolen. mylye2222 Jul 2014 #140

Yeah and there are STILL (funny it is the same people on here) that pretend vote Rex Jul 2014 #146

Thanks for this response, Rex! mylye2222 Jul 2014 #150

Oh man, I remember doing a million facepalms as Kerry sat by and watched the GOP Rex Jul 2014 #159

Kerry really wanted to more powerfully respond ( he did in some way but media didn't recorded it) mylye2222 Jul 2014 #167

Yeah, I was dumbfounded that nobody stood up for him in 2004 and let the slander continue. Rex Jul 2014 #173

I have the SAME HIGH DOUBT as yours!!!!!!!! mylye2222 Jul 2014 #180

DU rec... SidDithers Jul 2014 #118

lol nt BootinUp Jul 2014 #147

Thank you for stating clearly. It's amazing so many people on here lack HERVEPA Jul 2014 #120

Yes our system very clearly is ONLY for two parties, and he should have known that huh! cascadiance Jul 2014 #141

Ralph ran and doing so caused irreparable harm HERVEPA Jul 2014 #157

So you are saying that ANY third party could cause irreparable harm then? cascadiance Jul 2014 #168

Read my fucking post. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #187

But how could you not feel the same about any third party candidate that is a spoiler in other races cascadiance Jul 2014 #203

In some cases third parties may have an influence. HERVEPA Jul 2014 #211

I think there were several causes as to why Gore lost but that is one of them LynneSin Jul 2014 #123

GORE DID NOT LOSE. HE WON THE ELECTION. DON'T BUY THE LIES fasttense Jul 2014 #138

Point taken. I should have said "lost". And btw Kerry "lost" too LynneSin Jul 2014 #148

And he would have had a PUBLIC recount op, mylye2222 Jul 2014 #154

Gore.Didint.Lost.He .Was.Robbed.Period. mylye2222 Jul 2014 #145

Exactly. fasttense Jul 2014 #161

As a person that has never voted for a third party candidate tiredtoo Jul 2014 #156

The way to pull the Dems to the left is via primaries. DanTex Jul 2014 #166

Voting for the candidate you believe best represents you is called "democracy", not "sabotage". winter is coming Jul 2014 #273

Nader was the one doing the sabotage, not the voters. DanTex Jul 2014 #276

"base." wyldwolf Jul 2014 #191

it apears you forgot tiredtoo Jul 2014 #315

No I didn't wyldwolf Jul 2014 #318

Yes, EXACTLY. BootinUp Jul 2014 #164

agree but what about Clinton? ALBliberal Jul 2014 #177

ML? wyldwolf Jul 2014 #193

Monica Lewinsky sorry! ALBliberal Jul 2014 #197

Polling proved "ML" didn't hurt Clinton or the Dem brand at all wyldwolf Jul 2014 #201

Then Gore should have campaigned with Clinton ALBliberal Jul 2014 #220

I said it then and I'll say it now...I will NEVER forgive Nader KauaiK Jul 2014 #196

Ralph Nader said "There is not a dime's worth of difference between Republicans and Democrats. world wide wally Jul 2014 #200

That line wouldn't have worked unless people believed it. Maedhros Jul 2014 #241

Instead we get "I agree with Governor Bush". TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #375

the 43 going on 44 million dumb asses who voted for dipshit Cosmocat Jul 2014 #205

God damn that Ralph Nader for giving some voters what they thought hughee99 Jul 2014 #206

Yes, we did need those stupid people to vote for Gore. DanTex Jul 2014 #210

So is it Nader's fault or the people that voted for him? hughee99 Jul 2014 #212

Both. If Nader hadn't run, Nader voters would mostly have gone to Gore, giving him FL DanTex Jul 2014 #214

Personally, I blame stupid voters for making stupid votes. hughee99 Jul 2014 #231

I agree about stupid voters. But Nader isn't stupid. He knew what he was doing, DanTex Jul 2014 #237

Now that is REALLY scarey to think of... Thanks, Ralphie world wide wally Jul 2014 #270

Well they have their conscience bluestateguy Jul 2014 #223

Let's do some math bluestateguy Jul 2014 #209

In which states did the minority that voted for Nader tip the election to Bush? JDPriestly Jul 2014 #217

Umm... in Florida. DanTex Jul 2014 #226

I bet that the Bush government in Florida would have rigged the election for GWB in any event. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #262

Without Nader, Gore would have won by a recount-proof margin. DanTex Jul 2014 #265

NAFTA, GATT, DOMA, Welfare Reform were anathema to Liberals. Maedhros Jul 2014 #251

This is something you and I agree upon completely. aikoaiko Jul 2014 #224

No blame for elected Democrats JoeyT Jul 2014 #227

Wrong. It's surprising this idiotic meme still gets pushed. DirkGently Jul 2014 #229

Actually, you can infer what Nader voters would have done. DanTex Jul 2014 #235

None of that GUESSING makes Nader the "cause" of anything. DirkGently Jul 2014 #253

Polls and statistics aren't "guessing". DanTex Jul 2014 #259

That is the job of the party and its candidates. NOT the voters. DirkGently Jul 2014 #264

Of course it's sabotage. DanTex Jul 2014 #268

It was not incumbent on Nader to protect Democrats. DirkGently Jul 2014 #274

True. He had the option of sabotaging the Democrats. And that's the option he chose. DanTex Jul 2014 #279

Plain silly. It's not "sabotage" to run OR to vote. DirkGently Jul 2014 #301

Of course it's sabotage. DanTex Jul 2014 #302

Of course it wasn't "sabotage." DirkGently Jul 2014 #312

I'm not saying it's "incumbent on Nader" to help Gore win. DanTex Jul 2014 #314

Funny watching some Dems show their true hatred for democracy. Rex Jul 2014 #307

It's a take on party loyalty I can't get behind either. DirkGently Jul 2014 #316

I think you have it right and I am just being a snarker. Rex Jul 2014 #317

Oh, I totally agree it's anti-(d)emocratic. DirkGently Jul 2014 #320

Oh my! Emocratic...THAT one is getting added to the lexicon. Rex Jul 2014 #321

^^ Thread win. winter is coming Jul 2014 #277

SCOTUS Cost Gore The Election cantbeserious Jul 2014 #230

Interesting logic. davidthegnome Jul 2014 #233

Yes, Nader took away votes from Gore, obviously. DanTex Jul 2014 #242

If Buchanan hadn't run, there might not have even been a move towards recounts too.... cascadiance Jul 2014 #252

Some Dems do not like democracy when it inconveniences them. Rex Jul 2014 #243

Well said. CanSocDem Jul 2014 #255

Al Gore lost his home state of Tennessee. 4lbs Jul 2014 #240

Good point. And without Nader, Gore would have become the first president to DanTex Jul 2014 #245

Although if Gore had been able to win Tennessee, the whole Florida recount and Nader voters 4lbs Jul 2014 #343

silly H2O Man Jul 2014 #244

I disagree. lol DanTex Jul 2014 #246

No pothos Jul 2014 #247

Yes! He did! DanTex Jul 2014 #249

What about that bastard John Hagelin?!??!?!?!11! klook Jul 2014 #254

it's posts like this that bbgrunt Jul 2014 #258

Looks like you're not quite as good at ignoring threads as you claim. DanTex Jul 2014 #263

I was thinking the same thing. beerandjesus Jul 2014 #272

Completely agree. It was never Repubs Nader wanted to defeat. It was always Democrats. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2014 #261

No he didn't rock Jul 2014 #267

No he didn't rock Jul 2014 #269

His running caused Gore some problems, but he also made highways a lot safer to drive too! cascadiance Jul 2014 #275

+1 beerandjesus Jul 2014 #288

Shame on you for your hatred of democracy. beerandjesus Jul 2014 #285

What? Hatred of democracy? DanTex Jul 2014 #286

I read your post, you can read mine. beerandjesus Jul 2014 #289

Ok, on second thought, maybe I came down on you a little hard.... beerandjesus Jul 2014 #290

+1 Rex Jul 2014 #303

Really? Personal Damon Jul 2014 #294

Yes, really. Without Nader taking votes away from Gore, there wouldn't have been DanTex Jul 2014 #296

No, not really Personal Damon Jul 2014 #298

+Thank You Dan...I will tell my story one more time, the most liberal person in America, just about randys1 Jul 2014 #304

Stupid hats? Okay, how about crazy pants? davidthegnome Jul 2014 #369

Kick & Rec. nt COLGATE4 Jul 2014 #309

stupid...and tragically wrong noiretextatique Jul 2014 #323

Yes you do. ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2014 #328

amazing how many people are willing to minimize Nader's involvement Skittles Jul 2014 #324

kick & recommended. William769 Jul 2014 #329

One word: Tennessee lordsummerisle Jul 2014 #330

I voted for Nader in 2000 jimlup Jul 2014 #331

Poor Nader.. we're just suppose to sweep him and tweedledum and tweedledee little self Cha Jul 2014 #338

Oh no, I am having a Deja Moo moment from this. RoccoR5955 Jul 2014 #340

yeah, and the Martians caused the fall of Rome MisterP Jul 2014 #341

I'm pretty sure the fall of Rome caused Gore to lose the election. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #366

Kick! Cha Jul 2014 #342

...along with a lot of other stupid fuckers, including Gore himself. Hissyspit Jul 2014 #344

Like HELL! burrowowl Jul 2014 #346

K & R SunSeeker Jul 2014 #350

Few things rpannier Jul 2014 #353

While I voted for Gore, maybe he shouldn't have campaigned in "Centrist" mode, or did that LIEberman blkmusclmachine Jul 2014 #355

I might argue that Joe Lieberman cost Gore the election, but not Nader. Scuba Jul 2014 #358

I Nader-tradered Bickle Jul 2014 #360

this tired bullshit meme again? blackspade Jul 2014 #362

Time to make like a bridge and get over it. Daemonaquila Jul 2014 #363

Thanks for your input. Alkene Jul 2014 #367

scape·goat (skpgt) n. 1. One that is made to bear the blame of others.* rhett o rick Jul 2014 #368

Another Blame Ralph thread? HoosierRadical Jul 2014 #370

And do we blame Nader for corporate takeover of the Democratic Party? raindaddy Jul 2014 #372

SCOTUS deserves ALL the blame noiretextatique Jul 2014 #378

Well, that's the thing about democracy, I suppose. stone space Jul 2014 #382