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another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
Fri Feb 6, 2015, 08:17 PM Feb 2015

Europeans warn Washington: arming Kiev will backfire. [View all]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - European defense officials warned on Friday that arming Ukraine in its fight against pro-Russian separatists would only inflame the conflict, but were told by NATO's top soldier, an American general, that the West should consider using "all tools" if diplomacy with Moscow wasn't working. The debate at the Munich Security Conference highlighted an emerging rift between Europe and Washington over how to confront Russian President Vladmir Putin as Moscow-backed rebels make territorial gains in eastern Ukraine. President Barack Obama is under pressure from some in Congress to provide Kiev with lethal weapons.

German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen voiced Europe's misgivings about this strategy: "Are we sure we would be improving the situation for the people in Ukraine by delivering weapons? Are we really sure that Ukraine can win against the Russian military machine? And would this not be an excuse for Russia to intervene openly in the conflict?" asked the German minister.

Britain also fears that sending weapons could "escalate the conflict", her British counterpart Michael Fallon told the conference. As they spoke, Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande held talks in Moscow with Putin to try to end the conflict in Ukraine that has killed more than 5,000 people and driven Russia's relations with the West to new lows. Their initiative was partly prompted by the debate about arming Kiev.

(snip)

Germany's von der Leyen questioned the strategic sense of providing weapons to Kiev when the separatists were so well-supplied by the Russians. "The support with arms from Russia to the separatists is potentially unlimited," she said. "And do we really count on being able to provide as many arms to the Ukrainian army that they could potential conquer the other side?"


Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/06/us-ukraine-crisis-germany-minister-idUSKBN0LA1S420150206



If we take this step we will be setting course for a confrontation with the World's number two major nuclear power. This is not a game of chicken with Iran or North Korea. All of our lives could easily be at risk if this terrifyingly ill-advised plan to arm the Ukrainians is allowed to proceed. Is everyone really in that much of a damn hurry to die? Are you really?

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Obama will never arm Kiev, the same geopolitical forces that sent him to Saudi to pay respects to Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #1
I hope you are right . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #2
Obama summed it up best in his amazing CNN International interview in New Delhi...he is not a totally free man. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #5
Few Presidents have ever been free to make policy as they would truly like . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #10
Obama knows what is up and what he is doing with .Ukraine and Saudi.....and the GOP. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #14
The greatest victory of all . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #24
Almost exactly as Obama has said it many times, in different ways. And delivered each time. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #26
Ah . . . Brigid Feb 2015 #27
There are problems that cannot be solved. Igel Feb 2015 #3
Nuclear war . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #4
I oppose direct offensive arms to Kiev, but.... Adrahil Feb 2015 #31
If no one ever acted stupidly . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #37
So you answer is let Putin have whatever he wants? n/t Adrahil Feb 2015 #52
Of course Putin is not that stupid... MattSh Feb 2015 #45
They are pretty stupid, but I doubt they will ever hold Adrahil Feb 2015 #53
Well I guess you get your news this way... MattSh Feb 2015 #56
No offence, but I do not see the analogy...not at all. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #6
And the onlooker is himself a rapist who prefers Latin or Arab women... cprise Feb 2015 #21
You're right, and I think Obama himself only tolerates so much cprise Feb 2015 #15
He takes sips of offered Koolaide, impolite to insult his Koolaide loving "allies", but spits it out unnoticed. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #17
If America starts to arm Ukranians we are arming the enemies of Russia. EEO Feb 2015 #7
Adding lethal weapons to a civil war which is taking place on Russia's border is highly reckless. another_liberal Feb 2015 #8
Is it reckless for Russia to add lethal weapons or is that ok. FSogol Feb 2015 #9
No one adding arms is "OK." . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #11
The difference is called intellectual dishonesty. FSogol Feb 2015 #12
Are you justifying Russian intervention? Sounds like it. n/t Adrahil Feb 2015 #34
No, of course not. I'm not even sure such a thing is happening in Ukraine . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #36
And what is your solution? Start a war with Russia by openly arming Ukraine? EEO Feb 2015 #13
Some folks simply think vomiting on any situation solves it. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #16
Nice reposte daleo Feb 2015 #23
MH17 again? cosmicone Feb 2015 #18
And you would think that if they had actual proof... MattSh Feb 2015 #47
I am a Malaysian OverseaVisitor Feb 2015 #51
It has been a source of amazement to me how thoroughly that story has been buried. bemildred Feb 2015 #54
We also cannot explain OverseaVisitor Feb 2015 #55
How did Latin America fare with US armaments? cprise Feb 2015 #19
Russia will not allow people who are hell bent on genocide... MattSh Feb 2015 #46
.... 840high Feb 2015 #38
Profound. EEO Feb 2015 #40
Why thank you. 840high Feb 2015 #43
I think arming Ukraine was part of psy-ops cosmicone Feb 2015 #20
A neutral Ukraine would be an excellent idea . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #22
Sure. Sending all those arms to Afghans when they were trying to oust Russia turned out so well... Panich52 Feb 2015 #32
Russia isn't messing around folks lovuian Feb 2015 #25
If it happens, if we actually war with Russia . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #29
But the USA might actually want a major land war in Europe. MattSh Feb 2015 #49
That would be an enormous payday for the greedheads . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #58
Listen to the Europeans, Mr. President. Brigid Feb 2015 #28
It is their continent, after all . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #33
...^ that 840high Feb 2015 #39
Since Europe depends on the Ukraine let them figure it out Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2015 #30
If our best idea is just to add more guns and tanks so as to increase the fighting . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #35
The U.S. Should provide air support with drone strikes. luke102938 Feb 2015 #41
Now we are going to give Ukraine weaponized drones . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #42
Yes, let's kill some babies. FA! n/t :-| DeSwiss Feb 2015 #44
Oh well, as long as no Americams are at risk PaulaFarrell Feb 2015 #50
K&R DeSwiss Feb 2015 #48
Great quote! another_liberal Feb 2015 #57
Yes, but the 81st chairborne on DU wants a war!! n/t cosmicone Feb 2015 #59
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