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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
29. I was waiting for your unruly 'children' to go to bed
Thu May 24, 2012, 10:03 AM
May 2012

In my initial post demonstrating the problem with EIA/IEA methods, I compared the projection of the WEO to the actual performance of wind and solar.
I added nothing, I speculated on nothing.

The only thing not controlled for was the content of what was being compared. For the WEO it was "other renewables"; a category poorly defined that appears to include not only solar PV and wind but also solar thermal, geothermal, and whatever else they saw on the horizon.

The achieved numbers reflect solar and wind only, are measured, and span 20 years with 20 individual evenly spaced data points.

Therefore the exercise I presented erred on the side of being conservative in regard to the point being made; which was that the forecasts from the EIA and the IEA are, in relation to the performance of renewable energy, invalid.


**********************


Here is your description of what you'd done:
Post 12

[font size="1.5"]Let's look at the electrical generation from Table 6.1. From 2010 to 2020, they expected renewables (ex-hydro) to add 85 TWh/year. But they expected fossil fuels to add 6000 TWh, or 70 times as much. They expected fossil fuels to add 8 times as much over that period as hydro and renewables combined.
Extending the curves out another 20 years to 2040, renewables make a respectable showing, adding 1250 TWh. The problem is that fossil fuels add over 20,000 TWh - 16 times as much. And in that case hydro doesn't help - fossil fuels still add 9 times as much electricity as hydro and renewables combined.
Going by this table, fossil fuels go from generating 70.5% of the world's electricity today, to 81% in 2020, to 85% in 2040.[/font]


To create your slopes you used the WEO data from a summary table, which means you covered 49 years with 4 points of data - 2 real and 2 hypothetical. (That's 49 years with 4 data points vs 20 years with 20 data points)

The gap between the 1st/2nd point was 24 years, between the 2nd/3rd was 15 years;and between the 3rd/4th was 10 years.

This means you were trying to establish a complex set of trend lines only two real data points.

With this you make the point (I suppose you saw it as a point anyway) that the relative share of renewables is not adequate to be meaningful.

Your errors are clear.

Your sample size was small and the period you extrapolated to was large.

You used 4 points - 2 real and 2 hypothetical - over a 69 year period. Essentially giving you only a straight line between those first 2 measured points from which to derive the slope of the next 45 years from the remaining data (that you knew to be compromised at least in the area of renewables).


**************************

You obviously realized there were problems so you then did this in post 15:
[font size="1.5"]Here's another version using the actual 2009 data instead of their projection. The main difference in the EIA actuals is that non-hydro renewables turned out over twice as much electricity as they estimated in 1998.
So for the following graph I used the 2009 actuals in place of the estimated 2010 values. I also boosted the 2020 estimate for non-hydro renewables from 239 TWh to 600 TWh.[/font]


What that amounts to is that you:
a) removed hypothetical 3rd data points to use the actual numbers and;
b) addressed your error in using known false renewable data through inflation of the final renewable data point by 250%.

While a) is commendable it still leaves you with extremely poor granularity for your slopes and, more importantly there is a problem with your assumption about the amount of renewable generation in 2020.

We don't need to wing it, we can make the fit more accurate by recognizing the firmly established trend that is pretty created by the performance of solar and wind between 1992 and 20012.

The numbers below are year, capacity and amount generated for renewables from the WEO table:
1971 - 0
1995 - cap 13 gen 49
2010 - cap 43 gen 154
2020 - cap 79 gen 239


You changed it to:
1971 - 0
1995 - cap 13 gen 49
2009 - cap ?? gen ??
2020 - cap 79 gen 600


The slope established by the 20 data points predicts that instead achieving 79GW of installed renewable capacity by 2020 we are on track to hit 1200GW of solar and wind by 2020.

That suggests the WEO projection for 2020 is <6.5% of what we might expect given the limits of out modeling here.

In other words you have flattened your renewable curve by using a number the data does not support. You recognize that 239TWh is ruled out, but 600TWh is hardly better.

As the installed capacity numbers show, accurately plotting the trend line over the last 7 years gives us a lot of confidence that the 600TWh 2020 projection is woefully inadequate.

Since we don't have the latest globally aggregated production numbers, we can use the ratio WEO has established for us between cap/gen and carry it forward as a point of departure. Remember, the 1200GW is only solar and wind, thus we have some degree of buffering as the mix changes and small scale hydro , geothermal, storage etc. increase their effect on the overall capacity factor. (We'll leave out the recent crash in solar costs that is expanding the unsubsidized solar PV market to between 600 - 1000GW by 2020.)

That would make your final projected data point for renewables about 3676TWh, wouldn't it?
79/1200 = .065
239/.065 =3,676



The EIA and the IEA are not reliable predictors, they are owned by the established energy system and their forecasts are based on what makes that system work. They are structurally incapable it seems of altering their methods to explore the economics of an energy system that reduces the significance of the old to 20% or so of its present glory.

What this argues for is that in reviews like this the optimistic trajectories, which DO focus on what happens when there is an evolution in the system, are more likely correct than those that are shackled to EIA type assumptions about the future value of the present infrastructure.

IPCC on Renewable Energy
Close to 80 percent of the world‘s energy supply could be met by
renewables by mid-century if backed by the right enabling public policies a new report shows.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/112715489



I wish the Earth well, she'll do better without us. Lionessa May 2012 #1
I've said it many times on DU, the human race is too dumb to survive. nt ladjf May 2012 #4
. XemaSab May 2012 #2
"Look your children in the eye, while you still can" --NNadir phantom power May 2012 #3
For all the crazy stuff that guy wrote, that one line rings true. NT NickB79 May 2012 #8
XXX is happening faster than expected. kristopher May 2012 #5
Table 6.1 really hammers home what a lot of us have felt for a long time here on E/E NickB79 May 2012 #9
And as always it ignores the transportation issue... GliderGuider May 2012 #11
More sour grapes GG? kristopher May 2012 #14
No, just pointing out that as usual GliderGuider May 2012 #16
No one has overlooked anything kristopher May 2012 #17
Look again NickyB, and tell us truly what you see. kristopher May 2012 #13
Funny that you choose to use GW values instead of TWH values in your reply to my point about TWH's NickB79 May 2012 #35
Thank you. That seems a good source. kristopher May 2012 #36
Let's look at the electrical generation from Table 6.1 GliderGuider May 2012 #12
Here's another version using the actual 2009 data instead of their projection GliderGuider May 2012 #15
You're just tossing out nonsense and wrapping it in a graph... kristopher May 2012 #19
Amusing that you were fine with the graph that was based on 1998 WEO. joshcryer May 2012 #20
Are you all right? There is no graph for the 1998 WEO forecast. kristopher May 2012 #23
Are you all right? GG posted the graph he made in #12. joshcryer May 2012 #24
Given that you seem awfully concerned about what sources other people are using... XemaSab May 2012 #25
??? GliderGuider May 2012 #27
I was waiting for your unruly 'children' to go to bed kristopher May 2012 #29
TL; DNR GliderGuider May 2012 #30
Did you flatten the curve deliberately or is it too complicated for you. kristopher May 2012 #31
The renewables curve was an exponential trend line. GliderGuider May 2012 #32
You understated a key data point by 600% to grossly understate the renewable trendline kristopher May 2012 #33
Please try to understand GliderGuider May 2012 #34
Thank you for charting the data, GG. It shows quite nicely that while... joshcryer May 2012 #22
All you've done is illustrate my point kristopher May 2012 #18
Wait, I thought that was nonsense wrapped up into a graph? joshcryer May 2012 #21
At least somebody gets the point... GliderGuider May 2012 #28
These graphs from New Scientist always drove the point home for me. GliderGuider May 2012 #6
Nah ... Nihil May 2012 #26
This time, no lifeboats... even for the RICH. bvar22 May 2012 #7
I'm not that pessimistic, but the old Chinese curse still applies. Odin2005 May 2012 #10
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