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Atypical Liberal

(5,412 posts)
145. "Per your post, if the militia no longer exists, then the 2nd Amendment has NO meaning anymore. "
Wed Apr 4, 2012, 12:50 PM
Apr 2012
Per your post, if the militia no longer exists, then the 2nd Amendment has NO meaning anymore. IOW, the 2nd Amendment can't be used as a defense for laissez-faire gun ownership.

I disagree vehemently. The militias, made up of the people, were to serve as a way to prevent forceful tyranny by the central federal government.

The militias have been usurped by that same central federal government. This does not invalidate the rest of the sentiment or rationale behind the second amendment.

It simply means there is no longer an organized mechanism (the militias) by which to enforce it. But the people still retain the military power to protect their interests.

This is exactly what the founders intended. There is a reason why every single iteration of the second amendment specifically enumerates firearm ownership as a right of the people, and not a right of the states or the militias or any other branch of government.

And in fact, a proposal to insert the words "for the common defence" next to the words "bear arms" was defeated in Congress. Which indicates that not only is this a right of the people, it is not restrained only for exercising as a collective!. It is an individual right.

Most of the gun-adorers in this thread have let my clearly- and repeatedly-posted point fly right over their heads in their rush to judgement: The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with laissez-faire gun ownership.

There, I said it again, maybe for the 10th time. Hopefully some of you will read it this time.


That's because need to define what you mean by "laissez-faire gun ownership".

Also it's because you have not stated what you think the second amendment is actually supposed to do.

If somebody can show me a post of mine that says that guns should be outlawed, feel free. You won't be able to find one, except in your fervid imaginations.

The problem is that we have heard these code words like "laissez-faire gun ownership" before. Which basically means "hands-off gun ownership". Usually this is code for "you can't have unregulated gun ownership", which, when pressed, usually means the speaker supports onerously-regulated gun ownership.

We don't have laissez-faire gun ownership in this country. There are a host of laws and regulations that govern firearm possession. If we had liassez-fair gun ownership I'd be able to buy them through the mail out of the Sears catalog like my father did, and I wouldn't have to get government permission before buying one.

So you'll have to provide some details as to what constitutes "laissez-faire gun ownership and how you would change it.





Would publishing the personal information... [View all] discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 OP
Not really. Oneka Apr 2012 #1
Huh? bongbong Apr 2012 #2
"Nothing happened to O'Liely" Oneka Apr 2012 #6
WTF? rl6214 Apr 2012 #7
If a news organization Oneka Apr 2012 #8
WTF? bongbong Apr 2012 #9
Your turn rl6214 Apr 2012 #25
Thanks bongbong Apr 2012 #30
You wanna talk about something O'Reilly said, why don't you say it instead of O'Liely rl6214 Apr 2012 #55
SORRY! bongbong Apr 2012 #61
I would suggest... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #3
"Social benefit" my rear. More guns in public are a detriment to society. Hoyt Apr 2012 #15
Get a grip. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #19
so is more bloviateing on the internet yet here you are rl6214 Apr 2012 #26
It would seem to me that issuing safeinOhio Apr 2012 #17
I lean toward all public actions being open to the public. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #20
Sure, I would think so. safeinOhio Apr 2012 #22
we just don't agree there. n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #24
Agreed. mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #28
You don't vote? safeinOhio Apr 2012 #29
Sure. mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #46
In my state and most others, of course there is a list safeinOhio Apr 2012 #115
And what good would you suggest that does? mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #124
That is not the point. safeinOhio Apr 2012 #125
Gotcha. mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #127
I'm not worried about burglars. BiggJawn Apr 2012 #21
Really? bongbong Apr 2012 #68
Funny. Clames Apr 2012 #126
ROFL bongbong Apr 2012 #132
No... Clames Apr 2012 #140
OK bongbong Apr 2012 #144
That's a good point. If the public has a right to know who is carrying guns, why not carry openly? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #4
If the public has a right to know who is carrying guns discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #5
2nd Amendment bongbong Apr 2012 #10
an Individual is a Member of the Militia. In order to be well regulated the Individual must have a Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #11
In order to be well regulated bongbong Apr 2012 #32
excuse me -- are you saying that I am not well trained? Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #35
Simple bongbong Apr 2012 #39
I got one of those gejohnston Apr 2012 #41
OK but, does this mean that one is not well regulated if one can not produce papers from a Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #44
such simple questions.! bongbong Apr 2012 #52
then I am very well regulated. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #63
Nope! bongbong Apr 2012 #69
trust me dude - Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #75
Really? bongbong Apr 2012 #79
in the immortal words of jpak...you are wrong. yup Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #93
HA HA! bongbong Apr 2012 #95
I am a well regulated militia of One. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #97
Yawn part 543,638 bongbong Apr 2012 #112
night night Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #117
Okey dokey bongbong Apr 2012 #119
you are very condescending - Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #66
Does my DD-214 count? GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #122
What a laugh! bongbong Apr 2012 #130
that needs to be further discussed and refined, imo.... still, did you forget to produce your Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #47
Wow! bongbong Apr 2012 #53
go do another bong hit, dude. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #76
Go do another hit of meth, dude. bongbong Apr 2012 #80
Thanks for establishing how completely you missed the point. eqfan592 Apr 2012 #90
Thanks bongbong Apr 2012 #91
that is some stretch you have there Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #94
Yawn-o bongbong Apr 2012 #96
I bow to the MasterBater. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #98
Hmmm bongbong Apr 2012 #102
! Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #106
That's too bad... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #12
At least the other 4 members understand the phrase "well regulated militia." Hoyt Apr 2012 #16
there are no objective justices gejohnston Apr 2012 #18
None? bongbong Apr 2012 #33
so they are objective if they agree gejohnston Apr 2012 #51
Mind-reading bongbong Apr 2012 #54
not mind reading gejohnston Apr 2012 #60
Yawn bongbong Apr 2012 #62
bored yet? Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #64
get a double refund where you learned gejohnston Apr 2012 #67
More fail! bongbong Apr 2012 #70
"the pro-guns-in-every-corner-of-society-culture" rl6214 Apr 2012 #27
I love it! bongbong Apr 2012 #31
Are members of a militia "people"? nt rrneck Apr 2012 #34
Are bongbong Apr 2012 #37
There is no militia. rrneck Apr 2012 #43
As a well regulated Individaul, is it wrong to consider oneself a Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #45
Um, I would consider it rrneck Apr 2012 #49
Learn what "well-regulated" actually meant at that time then get back with it rl6214 Apr 2012 #57
Std talkin point bongbong Apr 2012 #71
Wrong, guess again rl6214 Apr 2012 #89
Nah Nah! bongbong Apr 2012 #92
Yeah, you've got a funny definition and I've got the correct one rl6214 Apr 2012 #105
Yes bongbong Apr 2012 #113
You didn't answer my question bongbong Apr 2012 #56
You can run but you can't hide. rrneck Apr 2012 #73
???? bongbong Apr 2012 #81
Still running. rrneck Apr 2012 #84
Hmm.... bongbong Apr 2012 #99
Nope, thats it. rrneck Apr 2012 #108
Yep bongbong Apr 2012 #114
Actually it's rather simple: discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #116
Your point? bongbong Apr 2012 #120
And what point was that? rrneck Apr 2012 #118
Read, baby, read! bongbong Apr 2012 #121
Oh, that. rrneck Apr 2012 #123
Well.... bongbong Apr 2012 #131
Awwww.... rrneck Apr 2012 #133
Yawn againT bongbong Apr 2012 #136
I dunno rrneck Apr 2012 #161
Learn what bearing arms really means... rl6214 Apr 2012 #58
Really? bongbong Apr 2012 #65
typical BS from the anti-gun zealots rl6214 Apr 2012 #88
OK bongbong Apr 2012 #101
No, it's commonly accepted that the foot soldier carries the modern weapon of THE FOOT SOLDIER rl6214 Apr 2012 #107
If he did, he wouldn't do it so much. X_Digger Apr 2012 #109
+1 n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #110
You're still losing bongbong Apr 2012 #111
thank god for that "pesky little phrase" Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #48
Even if the second amendment specifically said you had to be in a militia to keep and bear arms... Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #78
Are members of the militia "people"? nt rrneck Apr 2012 #23
*** and crickets *** Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #36
Kinda nice to hear sometimes. rrneck Apr 2012 #42
and a day later... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #164
love it, sitting on my porch, sipping on a mint julep and listening to: Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #165
Are bongbong Apr 2012 #38
There is no militia. rrneck Apr 2012 #40
Try again bongbong Apr 2012 #50
At last count rrneck Apr 2012 #74
Still dodging bongbong Apr 2012 #82
Fine. rrneck Apr 2012 #85
There are no militias that serve the role that they did in the founders' day. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #87
That's not my problem bongbong Apr 2012 #103
It's a problem for anyone who wants to restrict the right to keep and bear arms. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #129
reply bongbong Apr 2012 #135
what precedent? gejohnston Apr 2012 #137
You call it potato bongbong Apr 2012 #143
we have more laws gejohnston Apr 2012 #152
Hmm bongbong Apr 2012 #156
the rest of the world discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #163
A simple question discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #139
asdf bongbong Apr 2012 #142
Okay discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #147
But there is no answer in post #141. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #148
asdf bongbong Apr 2012 #154
I did, and have not seen anything that looks like an answer. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #158
asdf bongbong Apr 2012 #159
He refuses to answer that question. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #149
I can wait. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #155
"Per your post, if the militia no longer exists, then the 2nd Amendment has NO meaning anymore. " Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #145
Don't expect a cogent response.. X_Digger Apr 2012 #150
What a trainwreck of a trouncing. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #151
hmmm bongbong Apr 2012 #153
There are no answers in post #141. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #157
asdf bongbong Apr 2012 #160
Try answering a little faster. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #162
"Communicating badly and acting smug when you're misunderstood is NOT CLEVERNESS."- XKCD friendly_iconoclast Apr 2012 #169
asdf bongbong Apr 2012 #170
I wasn't aware you were advocating *anything*, (that 'communicating badly' thing)... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2012 #171
Really? bongbong Apr 2012 #172
OK, then. Kindly point out for us what the NRA got wrong. Here's a link to their site: friendly_iconoclast Apr 2012 #174
No way! bongbong Apr 2012 #176
Well then, what you have asserted without evidence can be likewise dismissed without evidence. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2012 #177
asdf bongbong Apr 2012 #178
You don't know what "well-regulated" at that time means rl6214 Apr 2012 #59
FAIL! bongbong Apr 2012 #72
All 9 judges agreed the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #77
And... bongbong Apr 2012 #83
I dont' know what you mean by "laissez-faire gun ownership" Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #86
Interesting bongbong Apr 2012 #104
You'll have to do the research yourself, I'm afraid. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #128
I've done the research bongbong Apr 2012 #134
OK, so based on your research... Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #138
Thats four questions bongbong Apr 2012 #141
Feel free to ask away. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #146
"Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be" friendly_iconoclast Apr 2012 #166
That's a good one bongbong Apr 2012 #167
And what do *you* believe "...The NRA Imagines Constitution To Be"? friendly_iconoclast Apr 2012 #168
The NRA Imagines Constitution To Be Glassunion Apr 2012 #173
Bwahaha! friendly_iconoclast Apr 2012 #175
Whoa, dude..... Callisto32 Apr 2012 #13
Cool discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #14
huge hands, large arms Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2012 #100
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