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Atheists & Agnostics

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Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
Fri Apr 14, 2023, 02:35 AM Apr 2023

My missive to a Friend trying to convince me 'eternal souls' are a real thing ... [View all]

Thank you for trying to convince me that this magical concept you're discussing is actually a 'real thing'. I think we all wish that we (and our loved ones, human or otherwise) are magically in possession of 'eternal life'. I WANT to believe like you, but I just can't.

At the most basic level, there should be tangible, testable evidence for the existence of afterlives, but there's not. The sorts of anecdotal evidence individuals provide of 'visitations' (that you're relying on) never actually stand up to rigorous scientific scrutiny.

EVER.

But here's the bright side for me ... I look around at what we know about the universe we live in, an unfathomably immense vacuum for the most part, cold, black, hostile and devoid-of-life everywhere we've ever been able to observe (with really advanced equipment) ... and yet, here I am, alive!

I'm not saying the planet Earth is the only time the Universe has had life at our level, but I believe it's likely very rare. As such, ALL OUR LIVES, and the lives of every being that's ever existed on this planet ... are, statistically-speaking, a friggin miracle. Not a magical one, but a statistical one. On a cosmic scale, we've all won the lottery.

Your belief system relies on the idea that there's an additional, basically WAY MORE EVOLVED overlay ... than what the greatest scientists (MANY of whom wanted to believe in exactly what you do) have ever scientifically observed to exist.

IMHO, 'afterlives' are just a form of made-up magical shit, like witches and leprechauns, souls, and psychics, and similar things. There's no TANGIBLE evidence for any of it.

I mean ... what's your explanation for why 'souls' exist? What forces in this universe caused them to come into being? Why WOULD they exist? You have no idea, you just 'suppose' they exist. For no actual reason.

Well, here's the reason many people do. We are the product of over 2B years of evolution on this planet, and EVERY species that are our ancestors ... possessed an innate desire TO SURVIVE.

And once our brains advanced to the point where we could conceive of the idea of 'eternal life' ... humanity began fostering it. Esp. as a means of 'leaders' to control others, give themselves a competitive advantage. See for example the Roman Catholic church, though they're far from the first.

Dangling the concept of eternal life over people's heads (if they comply with 'leaders') has led to a lot of evil throughout history. Lot's of good too I imagine mostly in the form of 'comfort', but ultimately, it's a tool of control.

Anyways, I focus on the fact that my life ... all of our lives ... are incredibly unlikely given the conditions of the universe as we know it. The lives we get to live are damn near miracles ... but the reason why we have these lives is supported by scientific observations. We KNOW why we're here now. We largely understand the processes and the science behind the forces that allow for us to exist as CORPOREAL beings.

I believe, at the core of my being ... that eternal life is a made-up concept. At the same time, I'd LOVE for it to be true. We ALL WOULD.

I feel like I'm incredibly blessed to have ever lived in this corporeal form, and I don't expect anything as drastically more complex, like 'magical eternal souls', to be underlying this whole experience.

I am ... my body and brain. Period. When it dies, I die. Except for people's memories of me. I'm okay with it, and I think it's a liberating idea for humanity

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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'Except for people's memories of me.' elleng Apr 2023 #1
+1 progressoid Apr 2023 #8
Thanks! Here's one with an orchestra in performance progree Apr 2023 #23
Thank you. elleng Apr 2023 #24
I don't know anything for sure, but evidence is on your side... dchill Apr 2023 #2
We as humans (generally speaking) have an inherent proclivity to SURVIVE Hugh_Lebowski Apr 2023 #3
When the tantalizing becomes the real... dchill Apr 2023 #13
I have had many experiences over the years BigmanPigman Apr 2023 #4
What happens is that the living will perceive 'signs' as a result of grief/stress Hugh_Lebowski Apr 2023 #5
"W know why we are here now" Why? nt Samrob Apr 2023 #6
Sorry that was poorly phrased ... Hugh_Lebowski Apr 2023 #7
This atheist agrees. Still. Why do we imagine a distant past? Why science, beauty, stories, love? ancianita Apr 2023 #9
When I was 16 I had a long conversation with myself about the soul. cachukis Apr 2023 #10
The only ones who know for sure..... joshdawg Apr 2023 #11
Actually there is some excellent scientific research on this topic. Irish_Dem Apr 2023 #12
Thank you!!!!! I've referred people to his writing before. Also, Your Eternal Self (which deals with Karadeniz Apr 2023 #15
Research by PhDs and MDs resonate the most with me, because I am a PhD Irish_Dem Apr 2023 #16
Since it seems to be hard wired in so many people Warpy Apr 2023 #20
Yes humans could be hard wired to have fantasy religious beliefs as a coping mechanism. Irish_Dem May 2023 #29
Okay, nothing wrong with 'no ruling anything out', being open-minded Hugh_Lebowski Apr 2023 #21
If you get a PhD you quickly learn how rigid and narrow the academic community tends to be. Irish_Dem May 2023 #30
Why didn't he win the Nobel prize? Farmer-Rick May 2023 #25
Because eastern religions already believe in reincarnation and have since ancient times. Irish_Dem May 2023 #31
Eastern Religions have no more proof or evidence than any other religion Farmer-Rick May 2023 #32
I see a lot of the same old reactions here. There's tons of evidence about the existence of Mind Karadeniz Apr 2023 #14
If one frees themselves from the bonds of time, Mr.Bill Apr 2023 #17
The list of things that humans once believed had origins in Gods and Magic is IMMENSE Hugh_Lebowski Apr 2023 #19
No offense taken, but that Japanese physicist... you know him... said there were eleven Karadeniz May 2023 #28
Well, if you got the evidence Farmer-Rick May 2023 #26
Memeory, likes and dislikes, outlook on life, all that stuff Warpy Apr 2023 #18
This is something that resonates (smiley face) with me Easterncedar Apr 2023 #22
I like to think when I visit my dead spouse's grave Farmer-Rick May 2023 #27
I don't want it ExWhoDoesntCare May 2023 #33
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