Obama said that Ronald Reagan offered voters "clarity .. optimism .. dynamism".

[Apollo11]

Hillary said that John McCain offers voters "a lifetime of experience", based on his 23 years in the US Navy plus 25 years in the US Congress.

And yet folks here are saying that Hillary should be kicked out of the Democratic Party? :eyes:


Barack Obama on Ronald Reagan

I don't want to present myself as some sort of singular figure. I think part of what's different are the times. I do think that for example the 1980 was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.

www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3263

[NYCGirl]

1. Reagan isn't running for president on the Republican ticket this year.

McCain is.

[rug]

4. The Republicans are always running with Reagan.

Including McCain. And now Obama.

[NYCGirl]

7. I'm not speaking figuratively. NT

[rug]

9. Me either.

[NYCGirl]

15. I believe you have to be over 35 years old, have been born in the US, and

be alive to run for president. McCain barely meets the last criteria, but he, not Reagan, does.

[rug]

20. Obama meets those criteria.

[NYCGirl]

41. Reagan doesn't. NT

[alteredstate]

40. Good point!

n/t

[LeftCoast]

2. Well, Reagan was dead at the time and not running as the republican candidate

I'm not calling for Clinton's head, but it's not helpful. I don't think this is doing her candidacy any good at all.

[ingac70]

3. ....

Psst.. Reagan isn't running this cycle.

[Apollo11]

5. Nice picture!

Looks like McCain brought his own sandwich! B-)

[rug]

6. ....

[StClone]

11. Obama is telling Lieberman and MaCain F oFF!

I was there! I LOVE that picture. GO Obama GO! You tell 'em.

[rug]

14. Yeah, his lips are moving.

[JI7]

8. Reagan is dead and not running this year

no matter how much the wingnuts pray for that to happen.

[cali]

10. He said precisely what almost all political historians say

he analyzed Reagan's political success. He wasn't praising him. He was talking about why Reagan was able to build such a formidable coalition. And Reagan is dead. He's not running for President- obviously. Hillary praised the REPUKE presidential candidate while in the same breath slamming the likely DEM presidential candidate. If you can't see the difference, you've got a severe case of partisan blindness.

[Apollo11]

12. I am not saying that Obama should be kicked out of the Democratic Party.

But many folks here are saying that Hillary should be kicked out of the Democratic Party.

Apparently, Hillary should wait until after John McCain has died before she is allowed to make factual statements about his record of public service.

[cali]

16. I know. And that shit is stupid.

but the point is that Hillary is saying nice things about the repuke candidate whilst simultaneously slagging off a potential dem nominee.

And Hill has said plenty of more glowing things about Reagan than Obama. That's the way politicians speak about iconic dead presidents. And like it or not, for much of the country that's precisely what Reagan is.

Hillary can praise any repuke she wants, but not the the repuke nominee and not when she's touting him over a potential dem nominee.

[rug]

13. "we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing"

He didn't say he, he said we.

[Apollo11]

17. Hillary has been slammed for mentioning "McCain" and "experience" in the same sentence.

She did not say that McCain has the most experience or the best experience.

[rug]

21. Correct. You have to be blinded by hate or ignorance to translate that into an endorsement.

[cali]

27. actually you have to be blinded

by Hillary adulation and Obama detestation not to see that her comments are damaging to the party. And if you think SDs are happy with her comments and her behavior, take a look at what they're doing- and it ain't endorsing her.

[rug]

29. Amusing you say adulation.

[cali]

38. Really? Why? Unlike YOU, I've criticized my candidate

many times. He's far from my ideal candidate, and I have no trouble recognizing his shortcomings. You can't say the same about how you regard Hilly.

[cali]

26. She clearly said that McCain had the requisite experience to be

President and that she also did, but that Obama did not. And that's what people- including dem movers and shakers- have taken exception to. She's taken the repukes main attack on Obama and amplified it by dint of being the most prominent voice in the democratic party.

[cali]

18. So what?

Hillary has said glowing things about Reagan that outshine anything Obama said. And once again: Reagan is dead and thus not running for President. If Obama had said that McCain was fit to president and Hillary wasn't, I imagine you wouldn't be so charged up in his defense.

[rug]

22. As you know, she didn't say that. And Obama is pandering to living Reaganites.

Which resonates with you.

[cali]

28. ugh. revisionist history. my pet peeve. she surely did say that

She said that she has the experience, McCain has the experience and that all Obama has is a speech in 2002. It couldn't be clearer except to deluded repuke loving hillbots.

[casus belli]

32. This one was born without ears.

You're wasting your time. Plus...they're too angry and opinionated to have a reasonable discussion.

[rug]

34. I'm glad you've receded to the balcony with the mutterers.

[casus belli]

37. I can tell when words are being wasted.

These last few posts are fine examples.

I haven't attacked your candidate. I have only tried to clarify an inaccurate portrayal of mine's position. You, however, have decided that you want to pick a fight, with closed ears, for the sake of proving yourself right....to yourself. If you want to have a discussion with points and counter points fine, but I'm not inclinced to be easily dragged into a tit for tat discussion where all you can offer are blanket statements and condemnations without any sources or information to back up your attacks.

[rug]

33. I don't mind the namecalling but please wipe your spittle first.

As has been pointed out repeatedly, it was a head to head comparison of her strength against McCain versus Obama's against McCain.

And it was a sharp political jab at Obama.

Clearly your skin is too thin for this forum.

[casus belli]

19. The rest of that speech...

which helps put what he said in context:

Which is, people wanted clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing, all right? I think Kennedy, 20 years earlier, moved the country in a fundamentally different direction. So I think a lot of it just has to do with the times.

“I think we’re in one of those times right now. Where people feel like things as they are going aren’t working. We’re bogged down in the same arguments that we’ve been having, and they’re not useful.”

“And, you know, the Republican approach, I think, has played itself out. I think it’s fair to say the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years, in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom. Now, you’ve heard it all before. You look at the economic policies when they’re being debated among the presidential candidates and it’s all tax cuts. Well, you know, we’ve done that, we tried it. That’s not really going to solve our energy problems, for example. So, some of it’s the times. And some of it’s, I think, there’s maybe a generation element to this, partly ... I didn’t come of age in the battles of the ’60s. I’m not as invested in them.

“And so I think I talk differently about issues. And I think I talk differently about values. And that’s why I think we’ve been resonating with the American people.”


When you actually care about what is being said, instead of parsing for ammunition, you get a different picture. This is clearly NOT a pro-conservative or pro-Reagan stance. This is a condemnation of failed policies.

Nice try though...

[rug]

23. The battles of the 60s included the war on poverty, feminisim, civil rights and ending a war.

He's not as invested in them.

And he admires Reagan who resisted them.

[casus belli]

24. You're reaching...

Those issues still exist today, albeit in a very different form. That's his point. These are not the same battles that were fought in the 60's. The dynamics have changed far too much. The battleground has changed, the players have changed, the strategy has changed, and all of the issues have been complicated by dynamics which didn't exist in the 60s.

But hey, if you want to shut off your PC and go fight an analog battle....have at it.

[rug]

25. His rhetoric is reaching . . . and telling.

And you're spinning by saying "the issues have been complicated".

Bullshit smells the same year after year.

But you stay in front of your PC and fight your complicated different battles.

[casus belli]

30. Ah, I get it..you've made up your mind

why bother having a discussion then? You're too bitter to have any real chance at persuading anyone to see your point. And if all you want to do is parse for a straw man argument you can make to try to invalidate the points of others, then we're both wasting our time.

But you're right. The battles of the 60's were EXACTLY the same. Socio-economic factors were the same, legislation was identical, racism and sexism were pervasive on the 60s internet (slow as it was), violence was as rampant, the divide between the upper and middle class was about the same, poverty was just as rampant, homelessness was just as rampant, global warming was wreaking havoc on the summer of love, and the digital age had completely transformed the way organizers in the 60s fought many of those issues.

:sarcasm:

[rug]

35. OK, run away to comforters while shouting bitter over your shoulder.

But ponder this. No one is saying things are exactly the same. But it's much more alike than different.

Read some Hegel.

[cali]

31. dogshit smells and that's what you're peddling.

and it's YOUR blindly adored candidate, dear Hill, who's under fire from dems for her stupid comments praising McCain. She'll regret those words and try to eat them, but she won't be able to.

[rug]

36. Have some chamomile, cali.

It enhances bilnd adoration.

[cali]

39. No thanks, dear

I prefer fog chaser coffee and unlike you I don't do blind adoration.

[jody]

42. Reagan promised "Hope, Change" and his FAITHful followers were ecstatic. n/t

[workinclasszero]

43. Reagan is dead...McCain is alive and Hillary is endorsing him for President

over fellow dem Obama.

You fail.