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would like me to be the embodiment of all those that have dismissed the conspiracies so you can vent, but your post contains so many straw men I'm not sure where to begin.
Do you even know what the deleted posts said?
Try getting called a troll 50 times, getting called DU's boogey man anonymous army by prominent members of this site because I came here to challenge all the Leopudlians that think it is ok to engage in behavior that brings our entire movement in to disrepute.
Try going into another thread to express an opinion held by a majority of the online progressive community and have those same people question your motives.
Then and maybe then you will understand why I see posts like the ones the mods deleted offensive, destructive, and juvenile.
"Personally and thus far, I wouldn't look to you to instruct us on what "real progressives" are and do. If you strived for some kind of objectivity for the sake of compromise, maybe."
I don't ask anyone to follow MY interpretation of progressiveness, I ask people to follow standard progressive values when engaging in debate on political forums. This is not a tribe with secret handshakes. The registration calls for progressive discussion.
It is outrageous you bring up objectivity when any evidence not fitting into a stolen 04 election narrative is instantly dismissed with a troll accusation.
"I note that here you choose to defend the subtly questionable OP, rather than full-out attack the idea that the election was stolen, as you often do. In fact you have taken delight in the mockery of the growing numbers of Americans who now have come to suspect that the election in 2004 was stolen. They are full of shit, as you tell us on some occasions. "bullshit", you say to those whom you call "conspiracy theorists". "prove it" you say."
I never full out attack the premise that the election was stolen, go look for my discussion with sfepaxt2000 to see that I respect everyones ideas as long as they can substantiate them and offer the same respect for mine in return.
I think you need to quote me if you are going to say I've called DU'ers full of shit. Again you lump me in with all of your critics. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, I ask for nothing more before any discussion of the theories can begin in ernest.
"You defend and cheer Kos for banning certain talk, but want us all to welcome with open arms the subtle armies of provocative posters and possible agents provocateur now emerging at a critical juncture in the internets' history, and months before an enormously important election. Yes. I know. "Alert"."
I defend kos for banning people that refuse to provide evidence for their claims after being REPEATEDLY asked to. I defend KOS against smears by people here that makeup stories of banning, when a simple search of Kos proves there are 355 Diebold diaries, and 144 stolen election diaries sitting on his servers, and their authors remain active users. Including one of the people here making the claims.
I expect that people in the election reform forum, and DU generally are equipped mentally to argue the points made by the troll army you so fear. If you are not is it your arguments that are lacking or your intellect.
"Besides casting aspersions on the intelligence of DUers, you have stated that you would rather focus on the "60 million morons" that voted for Bush. Well, many of us saw proof that your estimated number of Bush voters can't be trusted. Machines changed votes from Kerry to Bush. Precincts had more votes than voters. Do you believe those were merely glitches? Alright then, we disagree about the nature of those mistakes. But they did happen. Do we agree that machine voting is too troublesome, perhaps too dangerous, to trust?"
Cast aspersions, me? And for the record how many reported cases of votes switching have there been, 55? After making the assumptions about my positions why are you even asking now? Machines don't seal votes, people do. That's my position. And it is a position that a majority of democrats hold.
"And why focus on the Bush voters anyway? some have changed their minds and now regret their Bush vote. Some never will. Get out the Democratic vote, as I seem to recall you saying at least once. If you focused on that more than deriding and browbeating in your posts, you would accomplish much more of what the body of sincere DUers hope to achieve. "
You once again contradict yourself. If as you say you have seen me arguing that getting out the vote is vital how can you say my focus is on the morons? I only ever said the morons are a bigger problem than the machines. Because you think the machines are most important you took that statement as a repudiation of all that you hold dear. That's not my fault.
"Do you believe that too? "
No, not if you and others insist on saying 04 was stolen without proof. People here demand an investigation but can't even prove there was a crime committed to investigate.
Would you seriously forgo working toward a trustworthy voting system merely because you find those of us who see evidence of election theft personally unpleasant, merely for believing so?
Strawman. People here calling Troll whenever they face an idea they can't easily rebut are unpleasant not because of their beliefs, it's their behavior.
"It is very simple: all we need to do is respect the conclusions each party has come to. You're not blind or naive for not believing in a theft, and I'm not a conspiracy whack-job for thinking "theft". Our personal opinions need not matter to any important extent if the goal for both is to get transparent, verifiable elections in the United States of America."
I do not have to respect someone that says martians are controlling the president for world domination any more than I have to respect someone that claims every election official in the country is complicit in fraud for wanting to use voting machines. If can't back up your ideas with solid argument nobody needs to respect you or your ideas. They do however have to respect your right to hold those beliefs, but this is a political discussion forum and your ideas are what are being discussed.
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