Syria will assist Lebanon and Hizbollah

[The Straight Story]

Syria will assist Lebanon and Hizbollah
By JPOST.COM STAFF

The ruling Syrian Baath-party stated early Saturday that it was prepared to give all available support to the "heroes of the resistance" in order to assist Hizbullah and Lebanon against the "barbaric attacks" of the IDF.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150886003848&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Behind the Aegis]

1. Of course they will...

...they are a terrorist supporting regime and, hey, the fighting is in someone else's land...it's win-win for them. :puke:

[Clark2008]

4. One man's terrorist group is another man's freedom fighter.

When are you going to learn this?

Hezbollah is no more or less a terrorist organization than the Israeli government. Both have too much blood on their hands.

[The Straight Story]

6. Ok, Israelis are freedom fighters then, works for me :) (nt)

[Clark2008]

9. You're missing the point.

And exacerbating the situation.

The Arab people need someone to protect them. They don't have nukes, afterall.

Oh, call me anti-Semitic, btw. I double-dog-dare ya.

[The Magistrate]

16. The Gentleman Is Disagreeing With Your Point, Ma'am, Not Missing It

And it is hard to see how his doing so exacerbates anything.

You will notew that tyhe action of Hezbollah has protected no one, but rather placed a great many people in acute danger. The leadership of Hezbollah thinks this will work to their advantage, but does not seem overly concerned buy the consequences to others.

Like the "one m,an's terroprist..." tag, Ma'am, the "I bet I'll be called an Anti-Semite!" ploy is badly over-worked. If anyone does call you that, please use the alert function, and it will be dealt with....

[The Straight Story]

18. I am just saying, label both side freedom fighters

And we can look at it in a similar light.

Both sides are fighting for a cause and for a reason, basically their freedom to exist.

Which side you take I suppose depends on which side you think would best be suited to rule when it is all said and done.

Both can't win - one will come out ahead. Peace out that way has not been something that has occured in a long long time and probably won't until one or the other eliminates the other.

THAT is what is sad to me. They WON'T get along. With all that said I DO wonder why the arabs are so fired up over a small strip of land. Sure they are pissed the jews came back to it, they think they should own it, etc - but they won't be happy - EVER - until the jews are gone. The jews aren't wanting to take over the countries there, just live where they are. So it was unfair that they got some land - is that reason to kill them, drive them into the sea, etc and so on?

What is the solution?

[The Magistrate]

10. Un-Assailable Logic, Sir

If A=B, then B=A....

"Like an accusation of crime leveled by a felon at a policeman: not necessarily false, but unconvincing."

[Clark2008]

13. I can assail the logic.

My point is being missed.

You can't take sides. That's been the problem all along.

Sir.

[The Magistrate]

17. If Can Do that, Ma'am, Please, By All Means, Do So

But that comment above does not assail it at all.

[Clark2008]

21. My point has always been that the U.S. defends Israel

right or wrong. And they've been increasingly wrong in a lot of ways.

And we have to understand WHY the Arabs are willing to die. WHY they're voting, overwhelmingly, for groups WE consider "terrorists."

Why? Because they've been bullied for too long.

Damnit - give the Palestinians some land.

Why would the Jews, who were tortured, tossed, killed... why would they do that to another group of people? WHY?

Hell, I fear it's too far gone now to reverse the course.

[The Straight Story]

23. Maybe Syria could pony up some land? (nt)

[Clark2008]

26. That wouldn't work.

I can tell you why - it's two-fold.

First, the Palestinians want some of the land they owned and then were kicked off of. Makes sense. I wouldn't want someone to take my land.

Secondly, Palestinians aren't "true" Arabs. They're a Greek/Arab mix. They're not as Nomadic. They really are of a different Tribe.

Jordan tried it and my former father-in-law was assassinated because of it.

[The Magistrate]

30. Not The Best Line To Press, Sir

For two reasons. One, Syria has in the past claimed Palestine was really party of Syria, owing to the claims of the "Arab Kingdom" briefly established at Damascus at the end of the Great War. One of the reasosn Syria went to war in '48 was to try and take the place over for itself. Some very hard-line advocates of Israel argue that Arab Palestinians themselves in the past considered they were Syrians.

The second reasopn is that it is not just a question of some land. It cannot be forgitten that a great many Arab Palestinians fled and were forced from their homes in '48. The U.N. Partition of that year envisioned two states, and apportioned the land between the peoples.

[The Straight Story]

34. And THAT is the problem

"It cannot be forgotten"

Well then I would say someone has some issues :)

Simple fact is the jews are there - and have no where else to go. What's done is done. Now they both need to make it work. Land for peace, etc and so on have continued to fail because no one is willing to forgive and forget and get on with it all.

[The Magistrate]

38. We Are In Agreement there, Sir

People must indeed learn to forgive and forget and get on with it all.

[Clark2008]

45. I'm a Ma'am, but... OK

You're correct regarding Syria.

And the Palestinians would no more like that than they like the Israelis.

They really, really, really just want their own place. Really.

In regards to 1948, this is true. However, didn't work that way. My former mother-in-law, God rest her soul, saw her first husband killed in 48 for their land. She and three small children were forced off the land they owned and made to walk to Jordan on foot with the three babies.

We hear that it was the Arabs who resented Britians proposals. I heard, personally, that the Israelis simply took over. The truth is in between.

[The Magistrate]

53. The Partition, Ma'am

Was devised by a United Nations commission, not the English. The area, a Mandatory territory of the defunct League of Nations administered by England, was in a real sense a chattel of the new world body. The Zionist leadership accepted the proposal, the Arab Nationalist leadership in Palestine, and the Arab League, did not. War commenced. Certainly during that war, Israel took over a portuon of the land alloted by the Partition to the Arabs of Palestine, and without doubt a large proportion of the Arabs who fled were driven off by violence. Advocates for Israel do themselves and their cause no favor by glossing over the facts: that never helps sustain a forthright effort.

[The Magistrate]

24. You Will Find, Ma'am, That The Leading Point Of The Opposition

Runs alonmg the line of "If the various militant groups would only stop killing Israelis, then the Arab Palestinians would have land and a state of their own."

In most exchanges, people simply talk past one another. What one group or the other has a right to do is always held paramount, and very little attention is paid to whether what they have a right to do is the best way for them to get the things they say they want.

[Clark2008]

27. OK - a dialog is started because you're always so polite.

On the Palestinian side, however, they're constantly given promises of land and then Israel encroaches.

Then they get mad and fight back with the only thing they have - bombs on bodies in crowded squares.

What can they do when no one of power has helped them for 60 years?

[The Magistrate]

36. As Matters Stand Now, Ma'am

It is hard to suggest a solution, at least one both sides would accept without some heads being knocked, and elements of both people's current leadership removed. But it is an unfortunate fact that had the Arab Nationalist leadership of Arab Palestine accepted the original Partition, the condition of that people today would be far better than it is. The decision to go double or nothing, so to speak, then, echoes disasterously down the years. Every spasm of violence engaged in by Arab Palestinian militants, from that day to this, has had the measureable result of worsening the people's conditions and prospects. You may, Ma'am, have had in life the experience of watching a loved one or family member or friend embarked on a course of resolute self-destruction, behaving consistently and continually in ways that damaged him or her badly, and seeming each time as blissfully unaware of the consequences as at the first. Something similar impresses me as the sum of the history of the last eighty odd years in this unhappy place.

[Clark2008]

39. Of couse it's self-destruction

but I can't imagine any of us would do otherwise, if someone were to usurp us from the land we also love.

Isn't it ironic that the LOVE of a place has cause so much HATE for the residents?

[The Magistrate]

44. Whether We Would Do Otherwise Or Not, Ma'am

Is beside the point of what might solve the matter, or even if it is soluouble on any decent line. People engaged in self-destruction are very hard to stop, indeed in all my experience, attempts at rescue are doomed to failure. And people engaged in self-destruction sometimes succeed at it.

[Clark2008]

52. No truer words were said.

Is there any way to nip this in, well, it's not a bud anymore, now is it?

Can we just.. God, I wish I knew.

My heart hurts.

I'm sorry for dropping the dialog, but, nuts to bolts - this just hurts my heart. I'm in tears for these people - both sides - and the children being lost.

[The Magistrate]

56. Glad To Have Reached Some Understanding, Ma'am

It is horrid when there are no good choices, or reasonable prospects for a good outcome, but it does happen in this life.

[The Straight Story]

37. Well, they could do something different

cause what they are doing ain't working :)

I don't absolve israel here either of course. I DO think that one side is hurting their cause terribly though by said bombings intentionally attempting to kill innocent people.

It appears that the only solutions left are bullets and bombs - cause one side or the other won't just sit down and refuse to fight.

It reminds me of the early christians vs the romans in some ways.

[Clark2008]

43. Yes...

Isn't is amazing what stoping the rhetoric does?

I've calmed and I appreciate you - all - all views.

I pray for peace.

I'm a sweet, Southern Irish/Cherokee girl who has married twice - both Semitic blood. I feel drawn by it, apparently.

For the record, I don't hate Israel. It's just that I feel, as Americans, we pretty much know their side - their point of view. But we're not as learned on the Arab point of view.

Devils advocate and all.

[The Straight Story]

46. Agree with you there 100%

We don't know both sides. I have tried to educate myself and others on both sides while trying not to take sides. Hard to do at times when I see a bus full of people blown apart.

Neither side wants to give because they have too much hatred for the other, too many bad memories.

It seems as if there is no solution but a war with a clear winner. Damned sad.

[Clark2008]

50. I hate it when a child dies.

And children are dying in this.

When a child dies, innocence is lost. Parents are hardened and hate-filled. And bloodshed for a false sense of retalitation that never relieves that pain continues.

I know that if anyone dares harm one tiny hair on my son's head, I'd kill them. It's a parent's lot.

And Lot's lot is salt.

[akushuki]

7. Remember that time in 1775 when George Washington and Thomas Jefferson,

blew up a carriage full of people in London?

[Clark2008]

11. And?

Like Israel isn't bombing civilians?

Geesch.

I'm not defending terrorism - I'm explaining that the Arabs support those whom they think are protecting them - the same as the Israeli's.

[akushuki]

14. You are defending terrorism... By any modern standards strapping a bomb

to your chest and blowing up unsuspecting innocents is not justifiable.

[Clark2008]

15. And strapping a bomb to your plane and bombing civilian

targets isn't?

The Beruit Airport is hardly the Hezbollah base.

[akushuki]

19. You're missing the point...

Israel does not deliberately try to MURDER civilians. They are sealing off Lebanon and are trying to keep the soldiers in the country. They didn't want hezbollah to bring those soldiers to Iran where they would have a much harder time getting them and would cause A LOT more civilian casualties.

[Clark2008]

22. They sealed it off and THEN asked people to leave.

Um... how is that allowing citizens to leave?

They bombed the airport. Then blocaded the waterways. Then sealed the roads.

How are civilians supposed to leave?

[akushuki]

28. Maybe instead of blaming the Israelis for all the shit blowing up you

should cast some of it onto Hezbollah. You know, the guys that raided into Israeli territory AFTER the Lebanon pullout a few years ago and kidnapped citizens of Israel?

[Clark2008]

31. Sure - when you accept that it was as a result of Israel

bombing Palestine for three weeks.

Blood on both hands. Brother's hands. The Arabs and the Israelis are brothers, afterall.

[akushuki]

33. Hezbollah is a liberation front for Lebanon, not Palestine as I understand

Regardless the bombing is because of, lo and behold, a different kidnapping!

[Clark2008]

41. Hezbollah still sticks up for the Palestinians.

Small bit of history - and I'm not accusing you of ignorance - so here goes:

When Palestinan was taken over, the Christian Arabs went to Lebanon and the Muslim Arabs went to Syrian and Jordan.

They're all related and all inter-related. Arabs will stick up for Arabs. Which is ironic when you consider that Israeli Jews are also of the same blood-line.

Damn that Abraham. See what cheating on your wife, even with her permission, will do. :) (Joke, and a small one at that.)

[akushuki]

42. Hezbollah just doesn't want to lose their power....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Hezbollah_after_the_Israeli_withdrawal
"On May 25, 2000, Israel withdrew from Lebanon to the UN-agreed Israeli border, and their pullout was certified by the UN as complete.<15>. However, Hezbollah claims the Shebaa Farms, a 35 km² area, which is still occupied by Israel, to be Lebanese territory, and on that basis has continued to engage Israeli forces in that area. The UN recognizes the Shebaa farms as part of the Golan Heights, and thus occupied Syrian (and not Lebanese) territory."

Even if Israel left the Shebba Farms area Hezbollah would still claim more land. They are manipulators and terrorists.

[Clark2008]

47. Probably true.

But, if Hezbollah are manipulators and terrorist for wanting more land, why aren't Israelis?

[akushuki]

48. Last time I check Israel hasn't demanded a piece of Lebanon territory for

the guarantee of peace.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. well...

I could accept that if they were being occupied, which they are not. They are the ones that started this mess. Hizb'allah is more a terrorist organization than the Israeli government, and to pretend otherwise is not being honest. Because both have blood on their hands is not why they should both be called terrorist groups, but rather how they got that blood. And yes, before some smartass jumps this conversation, there have been times that the Israeli government has, indeed, acted like a terrorist group, but they still do not hold a candle to the terrorism of Hizb'allah!

[Clark2008]

29. Actually, they didn't

Israel has been bombing Palestine for three weeks.

They're responding to that.

So... here's your question. When is Israel going to let Palestine have some land. I realize they hate that Hamas was elected, but it's an off-shoot of what has happened. Patience is virtue.

[akushuki]

32. I recall a little while ago Israeli soldiers carting off jewish settlers.

What was that all about?

Just fun?

[Clark2008]

35. Not just fun.

And that was just.

But, why has Israel been bombing the Gaza Strip for three weeks? Why?

Why are a people who were tossed, tortured and killed by Hilter out of pure, evil hatred doing the same thing? Granted, they're not performing abject genocide, but they aren't giving the Palestinians in refugee camps much hope, either. And lack of hope breeds destruction.

You can't expect a people who bought and paid for land that was taken from them to give up. Give them land. Good land. Land with water. Bear it when they elect the extremists during their first few elections, but keep watch. You shouldn't over-react. Then let the blood stop boiling.

Israel has the power to do this - if they just would. They should lead the better hand. They have the power to do so.

[akushuki]

40. I find your idea of the Holocaust incorrect,

YOU are actually comparing the mass extermination of Jews by means Zyklon B in mass concentration camps with the strategic bombing of bridges and militant headquarters in Palestine? That's just silly.

Also I'd say the extremists winning elections is a direct result of GWB's actions in Iraq instead of recent Israel actions.

[Clark2008]

54. It's not silly to compare dispair.

I agree that the Israeli's aren't putting the Palestinians in gas chambers, but they're not giving them any opportunity either.

Which is worse? A death is still a death. Whether by gas chamber or by lack of opportunity.

So sad.

[akushuki]

57. Thats just silly!

[Clark2008]

58. I'm sorry you think dispair is silly.

Death is still death.

I've been to Gaza. Have you?

Edited to add that I was allowed to go see my ex-husband's family and he wasn't. He had to stay in Jordan. He had a Jordanian passport and couldn't go in. I could go with an American passport. Don't you find that odd? This was in 1998.

[The Magistrate]

59. Despair Is Not Death, Ma'am

[akushuki]

60. Do you mean despair?

dispair

\Dis*pair"\, v. t. To separate (a pair).

I have . . . dispaired two doves. --Beau. & Fl.

de·spair Pronunciation Key (d-spâr)
intr.v. de·spaired, de·spair·ing, de·spairs

1. To lose all hope: despaired of reaching shore safely.
2. To be overcome by a sense of futility or defeat.

Because if you mean Dispair then I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...

And no I haven't been to Gaza, my vacation list is as follows, Baghdad, Slums of Bangladesh, and Mont Saint Michel in Normandy. :eyes:

[rockymountaindem]

61. That's rediculous

The Palestinians have a lot more options than someone being marched off to a gas chamber. For instance, they could note that Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. were much more successful in achieving their goals than Hamas and Hezbollah have been. It's just an idea.

[The Magistrate]

49. Since You Acknowledge, Ma'am

That the Israeli government is not commiting genocide in Gaza, and it was indeed genocide, the systematic extermination, rather then the systematic discomfiture, of a people that is what the Nazis wrought, would you not agree that is a think no good can come of invoking? It is guaranteed to bring heat, not light, to any discussion. A thing can be bad without being the worst thing imagineable....

[akushuki]

51. I agree Sir,

Very few events I have heard of can possibly be compared to the Nazi Holocaust and certainly not any thing I've heard of the Israelis doing.

[Behind the Aegis]

55. No. You are being misled.

They don't care about the Palestinian cause. If they did they would be doing something about the refugee camps in Lebanon. They were created to oust the Israelis in the first war with Lebanon. The attacks in Gaza are a "red herring" when it comes to this group.

Israel did let the Palestinians have some land. It is called Gaza. Israel's repayment...missle attacks the very night of the complete withdrawal, and about every day since the recent incursion.

[Dunedain]

63. I am that smart aleck

I see your position very clearly, and I agree with your premise to a point.
When is the line crossed when you can never come back to legitimacy?
If I do that which I condemn, what does that make me?
Is it really a matter of my sophistry is better than yours,
so that makes you icky name murder person and I'm the geneva convention?
Someone as intelligent as yourself is arguing over perception of character
as it pertains to your culpability in the death of people, why?

[saltpoint]

2. These tensions would be diffused much more quickly if Condoleeza

Rice were still alive.

Wasn't she Secretary of State or something?

[Glorfindel]

5. Yes, a sad case...self-loathing, too-successful woman,

died a-whoring for the B*shit neocon illegal appointed repuke regime. She coulda been a contender, instead of a bum, which is what she was.

[saltpoint]

12. Yep. A tragedy to be sure. So painful for her family to remember her

as a power-whore for the Bush administration.

I heard her old piano teacher blew her brains out sometime after the Middle East War of 2006. You know the war I mean -- when Bush was in Germany at that pig roast.

[The Magistrate]

3. People Say A Lot Of Things, Sir

And say them so they will be heard, and be pointed to later, and leave no doubt whatever about how brave and bold they are.

Syria will not want this to go too far; young Mr. Assad has a lot to lose. Indeed, one of the problems in this situiation is that all the relevant leaders are both untried and flawed in particular ways. There is loud-mouth demagogue in Iran, a pampered prince in Syria, and a man with something to prove about how tough he is in Israel. These must contend with a firebrand who wants a rain of brimstone to purge away the un-holy and leave only the pure standing.

If each one makes one bad mistake, we are over our allowable limit for the situation....

[helderheid]

8. welcome to WWIII

[Euphen]

25. This is just sabre rattling. Syria isn't going to do anything.

Syria can't stand up to Israel militarily, and no one is going to come to her aid. Assad has nothing to gain from a war with Israel, and everything to lose, but he has to say something for the sake of public opinion. On the other hand if Lebanon falls apart it might give Syria a chance to reoccupy it.

[conflictgirl]

62. Playing out according to plan, apparently

Endless war! Whee!! So exciting! And to think ** predicted this because Syria is in the "axis of evil" - how did he get to be so smart?

:sarcasm:

This is seriously depressing.