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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:15 PM Original message |
Outrage - Can someone explain why there shoud be a PENALTY IMPOSED ON people without insurance? |
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undeterred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:16 PM Response to Original message |
1. Because you can't fuck the poor too much. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:45 PM Response to Reply #1 |
40. Thank you for explaining it without the 1,000 additional pages! |
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kenny blankenship (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 12:51 PM Response to Reply #1 |
159. Well? they're the one segment of society that can't fight back. |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-28-09 11:27 AM Response to Reply #1 |
169. That's about the size of it. |
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Carl Skan (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:16 PM Response to Original message |
2. Because... |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:20 PM Response to Reply #2 |
7. Question is, why not just take it out in payroll taxes to start with, unless you |
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Carl Skan (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:23 PM Response to Reply #7 |
12. That assumes mandatory participation in the government program |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 11:12 AM Response to Reply #12 |
127. We have it with Medicare. Try refusing to pay your Medicare tax... |
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Carl Skan (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 02:26 PM Response to Reply #127 |
132. Oh we already have it? |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 02:30 PM Response to Reply #132 |
134. That's medicare - for the ederly only! |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 02:51 PM Response to Reply #134 |
136. My point is that we accept "mandatory" with Medicare. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 04:27 PM Response to Reply #136 |
141. Mandatory private insurance would be a worse system than what we have now, IMHO. |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 08:11 PM Response to Reply #141 |
151. This makes me crazy. You too? |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 12:52 PM Response to Reply #151 |
161. Yes! Mandatory private insurance in NOT A SOLUTION to our HC crisis! |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 04:44 PM Response to Reply #12 |
147. but mandatory penalties will pass? something wrong with that logic. |
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alittlelark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 12:32 AM Response to Reply #7 |
103. WOW Lotsa PPL w/o stars telling us what it is. |
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Donnachaidh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 08:16 AM Response to Reply #103 |
114. yeah -- POOR people cannot afford stars, even here |
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Retired AF Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 04:35 PM Response to Reply #103 |
143. You can afford that star |
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lexanman (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:08 PM Response to Reply #2 |
58. why couldn't |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:16 PM Response to Reply #58 |
61. BINGO!!!!! |
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lexanman (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:18 PM Response to Reply #61 |
64. thanks |
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Carl Skan (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:18 PM Response to Reply #58 |
63. I'm not sure why you think I disagree with what you said |
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lexanman (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:20 PM Response to Reply #63 |
66. I don't think you disagree |
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Carl Skan (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:24 PM Response to Reply #66 |
69. It's not but my idealism has faded over the years |
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lefthandedlefty (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 07:19 AM Response to Reply #2 |
111. Nice theory,but |
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Carl Skan (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 07:26 AM Response to Reply #111 |
112. What price doesn't just keep going up? |
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virgogal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:17 PM Response to Original message |
3. Nope,but they do it in Mass. Proof of insurance needed at tax time. |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:19 PM Response to Original message |
4. Right now, you have a payroll deduction for Medicare. You have no choice to pay this. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:24 PM Response to Reply #4 |
14. No, it's not - they are not taking this out to cover you, they are taking it out as a penalty and |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:32 PM Response to Reply #14 |
26. I was merely talking about the power of the government to extract payment from you |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:34 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. So that makes it insurance - this is just a penalty for being unable to afford something, if |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:38 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. Well, how ARE "they" going to take it out of your pay? |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:41 PM Response to Reply #33 |
37. it should simply be taken out in payroll taxes, unless you provide proof of private insurance. |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:47 PM Response to Reply #37 |
43. RIght, just like Medicare. |
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Sebastian Doyle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:39 PM Response to Reply #4 |
35. Medicare deductions aren't going to the CEO of United Healthcare |
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crickets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 12:18 AM Response to Reply #35 |
100. ^THIS. Thank you! -nt |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 02:58 PM Response to Reply #35 |
137. Right. And that seems to be the horrible sticking point in this whole debate. |
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SammyWinstonJack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-28-09 12:50 PM Response to Reply #35 |
175. +1 |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 04:41 AM Response to Reply #4 |
108. And I don't mind, because only 3% of that is diverted away from CARE for administration |
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sendero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:19 PM Response to Original message |
5. WHAT DON'T YOU GET? |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:25 PM Response to Reply #5 |
16. But are you covered - if so where is that stated? |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:47 PM Response to Reply #16 |
42. You make below 133% FPL, you get Medicaid. You make between 133% & 400%, you get help. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:51 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. At least when they put you in jail you get insurance. I think your missing my point |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:58 PM Response to Reply #44 |
54. That's a good point. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:16 PM Original message |
Yes - a good fix! |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 04:46 AM Response to Reply #42 |
109. WA state single payer proposal is $75 per year per adult |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-28-09 11:38 AM Response to Reply #109 |
171. That I could pay. |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-28-09 11:35 AM Response to Reply #42 |
170. It's not affordable for me. That's all I can tell you. |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:16 PM Response to Reply #5 |
62. How about those of who simply don't earn enough to afford insurance??? |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 11:54 AM Response to Reply #62 |
129. You get a subsidy or, if you are too poor for even that, the idea is to expand Medicaid |
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RB TexLa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 12:22 AM Response to Reply #5 |
101. But will my high deductible plan that goes with my HSA be consider acceptable coverage? |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 10:24 AM Response to Reply #101 |
119. My guess is yes...? |
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Freddie Stubbs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:19 PM Response to Original message |
6. Because under the current system, hospitals are required by law to provide emmergency care to people |
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stray cat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:23 PM Response to Reply #6 |
13. Let them die - I think requiring participation or a fine is more humane but I guess |
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gmoney (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:15 PM Response to Reply #6 |
85. Bingo... |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 10:26 AM Response to Reply #85 |
120. I think I could live with it if the fine is applied to the persons insurance for next year. |
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gmoney (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 11:07 AM Response to Reply #120 |
126. well, then people would just roll the dice... |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 02:29 PM Response to Reply #126 |
133. No, at the end of the year, if you are being levied the fine (tax), then it is applied to your next |
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gmoney (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 03:08 PM Response to Reply #133 |
139. It might, but you keep assuming everyone gets a payroll check every two weeks |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 04:35 PM Response to Reply #139 |
142. Those who don't get payroll checks still have to pay taxes at the end of the year, |
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gmoney (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 06:34 PM Response to Reply #142 |
148. Honestly, no... play by the rules, or pay a penalty. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 07:41 PM Response to Reply #148 |
149. The unethical part is penalizing someone when you could easily just provide thiem with health care |
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gmoney (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 10:40 PM Response to Reply #149 |
154. How is it stealing to ask for someone to pay for something? |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 12:47 PM Response to Reply #154 |
157. Oh, I see what your missing! |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 01:43 PM Response to Reply #154 |
164. Also, I don't see a mechanism that guarantees that this fine money is paid back into the HC system.. |
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BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:20 PM Response to Original message |
8. I think some here REALLY thought it was going to be free. |
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blue_onyx (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 09:35 PM Response to Reply #8 |
77. No |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-28-09 11:49 AM Response to Reply #77 |
174. Hear, hear! n/t |
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sarcasmo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 12:51 PM Response to Reply #8 |
160. Bingo, and who will be the first person to go to jail for not having health insurance. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:21 PM Response to Original message |
9. Don't Raise Taxes No No No |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:26 PM Response to Reply #9 |
18. They don't provide insurance - just a penalty - or am i wrong??? (text) |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:35 PM Response to Reply #18 |
31. A tax to provide insurance = "socialized" health care |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:38 PM Response to Reply #31 |
34. No - the 'tax' DOES NOT PROVIDE INSURANCE! If it does - show me in the bill, please. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:41 PM Response to Reply #34 |
36. The bill has a Fine, *you* want a tax |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:44 PM Response to Reply #36 |
39. In the bill it IS a tax - (text) - but try again - Why not a payroll tax for the public option? |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:53 PM Response to Reply #39 |
47. That would be "socialized" medicine |
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glowing (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:21 PM Response to Original message |
10. Its this one issue that has the "actives" split in two. |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:32 PM Response to Reply #10 |
93. M. dreamt last night that we won the lottery and after we |
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glowing (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 09:14 PM Response to Reply #93 |
152. Oh, yes... If I won the lottery, I'm not sure that I would choose to live in this country. |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 11:37 PM Response to Reply #152 |
155. So the only remaining thing to do is to actually |
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glowing (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 11:18 AM Response to Reply #155 |
156. sounds good to me. LOL |
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clear eye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 01:59 PM Response to Reply #152 |
166. Gee, in all those countries you would have to endure frightening single-payer systems, |
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clear eye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 01:50 PM Response to Reply #10 |
165. Seems you've bought into the disinformation about single-payer. |
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stray cat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:21 PM Response to Original message |
11. Lets just not treat anyone without insurance if they refuse to participate |
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peacebird (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:31 PM Response to Reply #11 |
24. "watching them dye" - is that Loreal or Clairols? |
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bbinacan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:33 PM Response to Reply #11 |
28. "watching them dye"? |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:19 PM Response to Reply #11 |
65. Being too poor to be able to afford insurance = "refusal to participate"??? |
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earthboundmisfit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 09:09 PM Response to Reply #65 |
75. Hmm, I wonder who came up with that phrase... |
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doc03 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:25 PM Response to Original message |
15. They do it with auto insurance! n/t |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:28 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. Which is a scam. In Australia my car insurance and registration was $25 for a year in 1993!!! |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:30 PM Response to Reply #20 |
23. Which is relevant... how? n/t |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:33 PM Response to Reply #23 |
27. It's an example of how they passed laws that benefit corrupt insurers in the past. |
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Seeking Serenity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:29 PM Response to Reply #15 |
22. That's not the same. |
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doc03 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:34 PM Response to Reply #22 |
29. But I also have to pay for uninsured and |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:37 PM Response to Reply #29 |
32. When everyone is covered with health insurance (like AUS), then your libility goes down on your |
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TorchTheWitch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 12:11 PM Response to Reply #15 |
130. and you can opt out by not owning a car |
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sarcasmo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 12:52 PM Response to Reply #130 |
162. Again I ask who will be the first person arrested for not having health insurance. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:26 PM Response to Original message |
17. This is unacceptable. |
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Doremus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:28 PM Response to Original message |
19. I thought Obama said today he would veto any plan that had a penalty. |
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Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:44 PM Response to Reply #19 |
97. I hope he said |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 12:47 PM Response to Reply #19 |
158. LINK ??? |
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lexanman (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:29 PM Response to Original message |
21. forcing people to buy something |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:31 PM Response to Reply #21 |
25. Wow, check out all of those fascist European social democracies. |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:44 PM Response to Reply #25 |
38. I know imagine requiring Europeans to purchase insurance from |
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lexanman (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:53 PM Response to Reply #25 |
48. what do they force |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:56 PM Response to Reply #48 |
52. Wars, military, police, courts, firemen, roads, sewers, etc. |
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lexanman (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:04 PM Response to Reply #52 |
57. I said |
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armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:26 PM Response to Reply #57 |
89. They are not forcing you to purchase private insurance. They give you the option... |
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lexanman (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:40 PM Response to Reply #89 |
95. Who is they? |
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armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:47 PM Response to Reply #95 |
98. Semantics won't help you... |
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lexanman (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:58 PM Response to Reply #98 |
99. the fine is not going to fund public forms of health care that is a lie |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 10:28 AM Response to Reply #98 |
122. The problem is in the word 'supposedly' - the bill shoudl state it pays for your insurance premium |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 10:27 AM Response to Reply #89 |
121. The problem is the fee you're paying DOES NOT get you insurance - it should. |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:55 PM Response to Reply #21 |
51. That's another reason why I'm a fan of the public option. |
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clear eye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #51 |
167. Yeah, but the public option being proposed has to by law have all the exclusions |
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armyowalgreens (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:25 PM Response to Reply #21 |
88. LOL. They aren't forcing anyone to buy anything. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 11:27 AM Response to Reply #21 |
128. You must have fun at tax time. n/t |
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WillowTree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:46 PM Response to Original message |
41. OK. Here's the deal, like it or not. |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:52 PM Response to Reply #41 |
46. QFT. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:01 PM Response to Reply #46 |
56. I don't mind every paying, but if you pay this tax, I don't think you get coverage.... |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:28 PM Response to Reply #56 |
71. Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, if you pay the fine, the fine pays for insurance. n/t |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:53 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. The fine pays for your insurance? Do you have a reference, this is a critical issue for me. |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:56 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. I didn't say it was in the bill, just that it should be in the bill. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:54 PM Response to Reply #41 |
50. The problem is, they are merely fining people, not insuring them. If they are going to 'tax' you, |
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WillowTree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 09:46 PM Response to Reply #50 |
79. So why not just GET COVERAGE? |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 10:37 PM Response to Reply #79 |
84. Some peopel will intend to but will not be able to for various personal reasons - the car died, |
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WillowTree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:31 PM Response to Reply #84 |
92. Or they could "apply it to their insurance" themselves. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 10:17 AM Response to Reply #92 |
117. I think all we need to do is make sure the fine is applied to the persons next year of |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 10:20 AM Response to Reply #92 |
118. I think all we need to do is make sure the fine (tax) is applied to the persons next year of insuran |
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lostnfound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 07:13 AM Response to Reply #79 |
110. If you make $30,000 a year 2.5% = $750.. |
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Old and In the Way (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:57 PM Response to Reply #41 |
53. Agreed. |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:59 PM Response to Reply #41 |
55. Everyone chips in with taxes, everyone covered, no problem. |
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Laelth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-28-09 11:45 AM Response to Reply #41 |
172. That's exactly why health "insurance" has to go. |
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Old and In the Way (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:51 PM Response to Original message |
45. Maybe the answer is, everyone should drop their insurance...then we'd all profit! |
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TheCowsCameHome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 07:53 PM Response to Original message |
49. Because Massachusetts thought it was a great idea. |
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Sebastian Doyle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 03:13 PM Response to Reply #49 |
140. Willard Mittens Brigham Romney thought it was a great idea. |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:12 PM Response to Original message |
59. We should be grateful there is no criminal penalty such as incarceration. |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:15 PM Response to Reply #59 |
60. Oh, I'm sure the for profit prison industry is salivating |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:21 PM Response to Reply #59 |
68. Because then they HAVE to give you medical!!! |
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spanone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:20 PM Response to Original message |
67. please show subsection (d) what are the requirements |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:57 PM Response to Reply #67 |
74. subsection (d) |
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BlueIdaho (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 08:28 PM Response to Original message |
70. Seriously? |
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bob4460 (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 09:16 PM Response to Original message |
76. Ok I must be missing something |
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blue_onyx (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 09:37 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. I guess we better find a way |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 10:06 PM Response to Reply #76 |
81. As one of those seven million, I can answer that. |
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many a good man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:21 PM Response to Reply #76 |
87. What you're missing is reading comprehension |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 10:05 PM Response to Original message |
80. Is this actually going to happen? |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 10:25 PM Response to Original message |
82. delete |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 10:26 PM Response to Original message |
83. The obvious solution is to avoid the penalty by not working |
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femrap (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:18 PM Response to Original message |
86. There's an individual.... |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 10:32 AM Response to Reply #86 |
123. It could be if the tax is applied to his inurance! Why not just take out his premium from his paych |
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mzmolly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:26 PM Response to Original message |
90. It's a tax incentive to get health care coverage. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 10:33 AM Response to Reply #90 |
124. But the tax should deliver heath-care to the individual. This should be in the bill. |
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mzmolly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 12:42 PM Response to Reply #124 |
131. Tax code can't deliver health |
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Canuckistanian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:27 PM Response to Original message |
91. You need a critical mass of people to make insurance work |
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mike_c (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:37 PM Response to Reply #91 |
94. that's why a single payer universal health care safety net for ALL Americans... |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-23-09 11:42 PM Response to Reply #94 |
96. Agreed. (n/t) |
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crickets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 12:23 AM Response to Reply #94 |
102. Yep. -nt |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 01:34 AM Response to Reply #94 |
106. Yep! |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 12:40 AM Response to Original message |
104. A penalty on what one can not afford to begin with?? Huh whut? |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 02:37 PM Response to Reply #104 |
135. Here's the section that no-one disputes is a penalty only, with no insurance provided: must be |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 01:15 AM Response to Original message |
105. It is sensible, acceptable and necessary. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 10:35 AM Response to Reply #105 |
125. It is crazy and a scam, IMHO, unless the tax (fine) applied to the persons insurance |
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clear eye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-25-09 01:22 PM Response to Reply #105 |
163. It is a form of mandate w/ the tax being the sentence for noncompliance. |
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Mimosa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 01:44 AM Response to Original message |
107. Insurance exec had told me their lobby would win |
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Donnachaidh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 08:14 AM Response to Original message |
113. those of us with pre-existing conditions are going to get royally fucked, |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 08:57 AM Response to Original message |
115. The way to avoid this is single payer. |
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Faryn Balyncd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 09:26 AM Response to Original message |
116. Because the 250- 600% SURCHARGE that hospitals charge those denied insurance isn't enough penalty! |
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yodoobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 02:58 PM Response to Original message |
138. Because health care is a civil right and a responsibility |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 04:37 PM Response to Reply #138 |
144. The problem is the provision does not provide health insurance for the payer, as it must for me to |
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Gwendolyn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 04:41 PM Response to Reply #144 |
145. I think you could compare it to the fine imposed by single payer countries. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 07:42 PM Response to Reply #145 |
150. But you GET HEALTH CARE COVERAGE! |
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Gwendolyn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 09:22 PM Response to Reply #150 |
153. Yeah it's not the best analogy. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-24-09 04:42 PM Response to Original message |
146. to criminalize people, of course. |
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Pryderi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-28-09 10:51 AM Response to Original message |
168. Isn't the fine based on income? n/t |
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OllieLotte (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-28-09 11:47 AM Response to Original message |
173. It's an effort to get everyone to pay into the system. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-29-09 02:06 PM Response to Reply #173 |
177. But you are not paying for nothing - when you pay the tax, you should at least be covered for |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-28-09 12:56 PM Response to Original message |
176. but you would know about the penalty before the fact...that's the point. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-29-09 02:08 PM Response to Reply #176 |
178. Some will not. Especially the working poor. It is simpler and less dishonest just to apply this |
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