Our Airport System: A Little Slice of Hell

[ixion]

"Two-by-two with hands of blue"
- River Tam, from Firefly, describing the goons of the Alliance.

The security at our airports is distinctly un-American. It is Anti-American, and serves only to harass the populace, and there has been no change whatsoever since Obama took office. None. Zip. Zlich. Nada. The TSA goons are still there, randomly confiscating whatever they feel like. Harassing whomever they feel like, and generally acting like thugs. I recalled the quote above as I passed through one of these checkpoints.

You still have to remove your shoes.

I had a bottle of cologne with less than an ounce of liquid in it. It passed through on my initial flight, and was confiscated on my way home, because the agent felt the bottle was "too big".

I had to pass through security again because of a terminal change. I was frisked.

While inside the system -- which is akin to being in an internment camp -- I was reminded constantly of the 'threat level' being 'orange'.

I find all these behaviors distinctly contrary to the idea of 'Freedom' and 'Liberty'. They are not quasi-fascist, but rather the epitome of fascism.

I used to enjoy flying, and I didn't mind the airports as much. They were a bit annoying, but you could deal with it.

Then came George W. Bush and the Neocons, and now our airport system resembles a concentration camp.

If Obama is serious about 'change' (which I doubt, frankly) here is one spot that is sorely in need of a rollback. I never had issues with putting my luggage through a scanner. You dropped it on the track, it went through, and you went on about your business of being a free citizen.

Now, however, it is a little slice of hell.

Breaking down your luggage, with a crowd pushing you from behind and agents pulling your forward -- hopping along pulling off your shoes, breaking open your laptop -- it's chaotic and uncivilized, in this author's opinion. It is distinctly anti-freedom. It is tyranny incarnate. It is the state harassing the taxpayers, because it can.

Most importantly, it is an indoctrination into acceptance of the Police State. Mark my words: If left unchecked, this environment will populate like a weed and will one day saturate our society, and soon you'll be removing your shoes before going into Best Buy. Fascism spreads like cancer. It is metastasizing as I write this, and will one day overrun our society if left unchecked.

Certainly, I understand the need for a certain amount of security. Bars have bouncers. So do concerts. There's a distinct need there. This security, however, should never ever be at the expense of our civil rights, should never violate our inalienable freedoms. If a society is to remain a free society, this is Rule Number One.

We ignore this (or rationalize it) at our own peril. I am a free citizen in an allegedly free country. By our own rhetoric, we invented the idea of a free country. So let's go ahead and put our money where our mouth is and act like a free country once again.

Thanks for listening.

:rant:

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. I completely agree. To me, it is evidence that the terrorists did indeed "win".

We also despise flying these days (any days since the changes brought about by 911). For the most part, they are foolish procedures that really don't make us inherently safer - they just make the sheeple "feel" safer because it appears we are "doing something".

[seabeyond]

5. agreed. a bunch of cowards demanding an illusion of safety. we dont fly

we use to often. but i wont now. i wont give money to lose all rights.

[ixion]

13. yep, every time we encroach on civil liberties

the terrorists score another win.

[MadHound]

2. I haven't flown since 911

Not that I was much of a flyer before that, I preferred to see this country from the ground. But after all horror stories I've heard and read, I refuse to fly unless it is an absolute emergency or if I'm going overseas. I refuse to subject myself to that sort of madness. I think a lot of people have taken this route which is why our airline industry is struggling. Perhaps when they start to go under they'll wake up.

[ixion]

6. Agreed. I don't fly now unless there is simply no alternative

In this case, it was a cross-country business thing, so it was either fly or risk my job. I despise fascism, but desire to keep my job, so I had to fly. In most cases, though, I much prefer to drive so you can see the countryside. :hi:

[Hassin Bin Sober]

42. I increased my drive versus fly cutoff from 6 hours to 14 hours.

[madokie]

3. +1

[CanonRay]

4. I only fly when I have to, e.g. Europe

Otherwise, I drive.

[ellie]

7. I always laugh

whenever I go through security at the airport. Taking off my sandals? Really? How viable was that bomb that loon had in his shoe anyway? It is all so ridiculous and dehumanizing. I think the TSA agents take glee in the discomfort of the travelers. I can't help but laugh. It is so ridiculous.

[ixion]

9. Yep, they delight in harassing free citizens

I could see it in the eyes of the thug who confiscated my cologne. She was going to take something, because she could.

[pnorman]

32. Don't sneer at the simple pleasures of the underpaid!

n/t

pnorman

[KharmaTrain]

8. The True Fear Of Flying...

Between the poor customer service and charges galore by the airlines and the regressive TSA screening, it's kept me from doing much traveling by plane the past 2 years. On one flight, my wife had a snowglobe confiscated from her carry-on...some how they feared that if we shook the snow around the Statue of Liberty it was going to blow up? Fortunately (or make that unfortunately) our flight was 2 hours late, but we spent the better part of an hour chasing around the airport finding a way to mail the terrorist snowglobe but in the end we said screw it and left the snowglobe...frustrated and totally amazed at both the stupidity of what was going on and the arrogance of every TSA person we encountered.

To those who say this country is "safer" since 9/11...I suggest they fly reguarly and have to put up with having their shoes and belt checked...and always feeling like you're under suspicion for something. Lately, the only way I fly is if I absolutely have to and then I need a couple of stiff drinks to keep me from losing my cool.

[ixion]

10. regressive screening is contrary to the idea of travel...

when you travel, you need to take certain things with you, and you'll usually bring other things back. In your case, the snowglobe. In my case, it was cologne.

Now, what's the point of going somewhere if you can bring back mementos of your trip? In my case, I was heading to sort of a backwoods retreat, I actually had to mail the camping gear ahead of the flight, because there's no way camping gear will go through one of those check points.

Even more ridiculous is not being able to bring nail clippers.

And, as you point out, you never know what the hell they'll choose to confiscate. It almost seems random.

[Buzz Clik]

11. "Now, however, it is a little slice of hell." Not really. It's a pain, but a small pain.

It would be pretty easy to think of real slices of hell that make the airport scene look like a minor inconvenience.

[ixion]

12. everyone's idea of hell is different, I guess... sounds like you don't mind it

for me, it quite literally drains my will to live.

[Buzz Clik]

14. Jesus fucking christ. I hope you never are faced with real tragedy.

[ixion]

15. You know nothing about me, or the tragedy I've faced in my lifetime

but thanks for the snark.

[Buzz Clik]

41. You said it all -- airports take away your will to live.

Taking off shoes, belt, keys. Bag inspections. My fish's death was more traumatic.

[ixion]

44. No. It is the manifestation of fascism, not the contrived practices

that is the problem, and the point you seem to be missing about the post.

[Buzz Clik]

48. Facism? You win. I don't argue with ridiculous cliches and extrapolations.

[ixion]

50. pray tell: what is ridiculous about it?

Did you support it when the Bush Cabal created it?

[MajorChode]

100. Pretty much everything

I pretty much despite the current airport security measures myself, but after reading your rant that claims all of civilization will crumble into dust because you have to take off your shoes at a security checkpoint induced a pretty good chuckle. That you don't see the ridiculousness of it all only adds to the hilarity.

[Mojorabbit]

75. I personally

don't like having my breasts felt up nor a wand run around my crotch at the airport while I am made to stand with my legs spread and my arms extended. I find it creepy and demeaning. I don't fly unless absolutely necessary anymore.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

65. You are so right, TSA is like totally worse than Nazis

:eyes:






















:sarcasm:

[MajorChode]

101. You should be ashamed of yourself for such hurtful sarcasm

Don't you fucking see this is how it all starts?

First they make you open your laptop at the airport. The next thing you know they are fining you $5,000 if you fail to reveal what color panties you're wearing on the census. Then they are forcing people to get circumsized. Next they are euthanizing old people and the disabled. Before you know it, they are calling government officials by Soviet titles, compiling enemies lists, dogs and cats together, ...

Maybe you can't see it happening, but that doesn't mean others aren't so fucking naive.

[NRaleighLiberal]

35. It is an unnecessary pain that indicates how much the terrorists did "win"

[NYC_SKP]

16. To be honest, as someone with AT LEAST an average IQ, I hate when stupids have authority over me.

TSA agents, the mean ones, the nasty ones.

The same applies to some police people.

You're right, the whole thing is bullshit and doesn't make us safer.

But to blame Obama... Look, once these are in place it's not easy to undo.

Some little thing happens and he'd catch hell.

It's also an international effort, multiple countries need to collaborate to bring reason to airport security.

Would I like to see Obama do more?

Of course I would.

[ixion]

18. yeah, that's part of it...

some under-educated thug with power is a scary thing, IMO.

I don't blame Obama. I blame Bush. Obama, however, is in charge now, and unfortunately that's where the buck stops. Sure, it's difficult, but it's also one of the most visible places to orchestrate change.


The procedures I'm talking about eliminating aren't designed to stop 'terrorists', they are designed to harass the populace, again, in my opinion.

[Obamanaut]

63. They will always be there. They are government employees, and

they have union representation to protect their jobs. They will always be there.

[crispini]

17. Good heavens. I fly all the time, and it's really not that bad.

I have my baggie of liquids ready, always wear slip-on shoes (with socks, because it's kind of gross barefoot, IMO), ID and boarding card ready in rear pocket -- it's not that much worse than it used to be, just different. Laptop in the box, shoes and baggie in the box, wham wham you're done. Maybe you just don't fly enough.

[ixion]

19. some people don't seem to mind it

I am not one of those people.

[sammytko]

21. be prepared!

haven't flown in years. last time was when i returned from kuwait. but you are correct - have things ready to go. But then, maybe i've been 'institutionalized' and just automatically follow military type procedure.

i can't even stand to go to a regular grocery store cuz it is total chaos. The commissary (military grocery store) is such a nice orderly experience.

[ixion]

26. yep

you've been institutionalized, so it doesn't bother you. I'm a civilian who chose to stay away from the military. A free society is a non-militarized society, IMO.

[sammytko]

27. thx for having the courage to be a free civilian

[ixion]

31. hey, it takes all kinds, you know?

Some people choose the military, some don't. Plurality is a natural component of an open society. And as far as the military goes, I can understand the need for order. I just don't think it should extend onto the civilian side. :hi:

[sammytko]

33. I loved the military. I originally started out training as an accountant

interesting, but boring at the same time - weird huh. Anyway, i did 22 yrs in the miltary. had to get out cuz of a medical condition. i hated that i had a hard time passing my physical tests - running etc. Well now i'm back in school, training to be a middle school math teacher. still like working with numbers. i get a pension and a disability check, so i can concentrate on my studies - all is well.

[ixion]

36. I'm glad to hear you're doing well

sounds like your making a good transition, despite being forced out of something you loved. My father and grandfather were both in the military. Grandfather was a career military guy, in fact. I never disrespected their decisions to go that route. Out of high-school I considered going into the marines, but in the end decided on a different path. Glad you decided to be a teacher. It sounds like you'll be a good one, and we need that. :)

[CurtEastPoint]

22. Same here. It's annoying as hell but you learn the routine: shoes off, laptop out, no metal, etc.

I'm not agreeing with the procedures but it's the rules (for now)

Think it will change? Probably not.

[Raineyb]

58. And the ridiculous baggie

the arbitrary liquid requirements, the stupidity of it all doesn't bother you?

I guess Carlin was right. People do give up their rights for the illusion of security.

It's all an illusion. They do this to see how much they can fuck with us and not have us fight back. Apparently, it doesn't take much at all.

[Thickasabrick]

68. "Good heavens"....maybe you don't mind the hassle but as a

weekly flyer myself, I will never get used to it and agree 100% with the OP. TSA is becoming as bad as Blackwater.

Maybe you are too willing to give up your civil liberties.

[Chemisse]

20. I don't mind it that much

Except for that scanner that sees the contours of your naked body as you walk through. Once I heard one of those agents chuckle as I walked through. It was probably for something totally unrelated but at the time I couldn't help but think it was a commentary on my physique.

I do worry about it spreading though. In London they have cameras all over the city.

[high density]

23. I agree it is insanity, but the rules are clear about liquids and the size of the container

http://www.tsa.gov/311/index.shtm

If the bottle is larger than 3.4oz, put it in your checked baggage.

It's all absolutely ridiculous. X-raying shoes and limiting liquids has likely stopped zero events of terrorism but has inconvenienced us all. The liquids ban should be going away eventually once they can use technology to supposedly identify "bad" liquids.

The thing that gets me is that we have all of these $10/hr workers around the airport that could easily smuggle and plant things beyond security yet all of the focus is on paying customers. Not to mention the entire loophole with the mail and cargo shipments.

[ixion]

25. ah, I see...

I never visit any site with a top-level domain .gov or .mil.

[Gormy Cuss]

24. It amazes me how people just accept these changes as necessary

Because they got away with requiring everyone to take off shoes and the 3 oz rule, they're now going for full body imaging too.

The last time I took a flight from SFO's international terminal (a domestic flight, just gated in that terminal) the security lines were the longest and slowest that I've seen since late September 2001. Why? Because everyone was being screened by the full body imaging machine unless they were bold enough to object. I did and was instructed to walk through the metal detector and stand in a corral while waiting for the TSA-like employee to come over and pat me down. Didn't matter that I had gone through the metal detector cleanly -- it was clearly punishment for not complying with the imaging screen. The woman asked me why I had objected and I told her that I objected to being screened by a full body imaging machine with capacity to store and forward those images. I objected with a calm demeanor of course because showing how annoyed that I was would have ramped up the screening even more.

Here's the kicker: in the five minutes that I was held aside for the pat down, no other passengers objected. They all blithely walked into the machine without question.

I remember the jokes after 9/11 about being forced to strip before boarding a plane. With the full body imaging system used as a primary screener it's not a joke anymore.

[ixion]

29. me, too

I was raised to believe in Freedom and Liberty, and that we had civil rights in our day-to-day interactions with the State. The Neocons removed those pesky barriers, and now a bunch of dim-witted yahoos have complete control over moments in our lives.

It's a sad state of affairs. :(

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. A security guy at the DC airport who was about 20 took my lighter away

I was flying home and had already been through security at another airport with the lighter. I told him "We can have one lighter". He said "Not if I say you can't have it". And he put the lighter in his pocket.

[ixion]

30. yeah, that's a perfect example

and why it needs to stop.

[LibDemAlways]

34. It's the lack of common sense on the part of the goons that

I find most appalling. I have some pins in my leg and ankle from an old injury. Generally they don't set off the machine. However one time in Seattle they did. I raised the pant leg a little to show the goon my six inch scar, explained what it was, and invited him to wand it. No dice. Instead he yanked me out of line, called a female screener over, and proceeded to watch while she felt me up - felt all around my bra in the presence of my then 12-year-old daughter. I was beyond pissed and told everyone within earshot that this was all "bullshit." The idiot feeling me up kept saying, "This is for your own safety." What a nightmare. While all of this was happening an elderly woman who must have been 90 came through in a wheelchair. They showed her no mercy. Yanked her shoes off and hoisted her up while they wanded her. The woman looked terrified. She had no idea what was happening. Her daughter (also a senior) stood nearby crying and imploring them, "Please leave my mother alone. She has Alzheimers."

A couple of days later I related this story to a group of women at a friend's house. One of them looked at me seriously and said, "What are you complaining about? You and that old lady might have been terrorists."

[ixion]

37. "You and that old lady might have been terrorists."

Spoken like a true lover of empire and fascism. That's the mindset that destroying the fabric of our society. Thanks for sharing your experience. We need to speak out if we're going to change the system.

[LibDemAlways]

40. When I asked her how many known terrorists are 90-year-old

wheelchair-bound women with Alzheimers or middle-aged housewives traveling with their children, she shut right up. The only reason there hasn't been more of an outcry about all this nonsense is that the public response to the TSA goons' abusive behavior is largely unthinking submission to it.

[donco6]

99. But as the poster above said:

"It's just a minor inconvenience."

:eyes:

[donco6]

38. UGh. I could not agree more.

I've not been nervous about flying for many years - and it's not flying that makes me nervous today. It's GETTING ON THE PLANE. I hate it. Hate it!!!!!!

[ixion]

53. exactly...

I actually love to fly -- the flying itself. The process in place by which one boards a plane is inhuman, though, in my opinion.

[triple point]

61. Can you maybe tell me why we say get "on" the plane but "in" the car?

I think I'd rather be "in" the plane, it's probably less windy there...?

apologies to my old friend G. Carlin :-)

[donco6]

67. LOL - good question

I think planes are viewed more like boats for some reason. We get on a boat. We get on a plane. We get on a bus. But we get in a car.

I'd hate to have to learn English. It makes no sense sometimes.

[triple point]

70. I bet you have parked on the driveway and driven on the parkway, too...

:silly:

[NYC_SKP]

74. Actually, yes, I can. It's an artifact from sailing. Aircraft are "clipper ships" in the sky...

They have captains, you board them, you get on board just like a ship.

They even have galleys!

Cars relate to the earlier carriages, you get into each of these.

Oh, and by the way, welcome "on board" DU!!! :P

[Greyhound]

39. K&R. You're welcome. I write this rant every time I have to fly as well. n/t

[ixion]

46. thanks...

and I always k/r yours as well. :hi:

[MrScorpio]

43. I haven't flown domestically in over 20 years

Thank God that I love to drive

[ixion]

49. Yeah, I love to drive as well

and belive me, I thought about it. It would amount to a 10-day drive for a three-day meeting in this case, so it just wasn't feasible.

[aikoaiko]

45. I've never had any problems, but then again I check everything

and I wear Crocs when I fly so the show issue is easy.

[ixion]

47. it's not the practices themselves, it is the manifestation of fascism

that bothers me.

[aikoaiko]

54. true, there are little Napoleans in these jobs and others.

And it can be irratating.

[Odin2005]

51. Thanks for reminding me why I don't do airports. I'd have an autistic meltdown and hurt someone

Seriously, if one of those fuckers try to "frisk" me they would physically restrain me after I gave the frisker a bloody nose.

[ixion]

52. Yeah, I understand

It's all I can do to restrain myself. Towards the end of this trip, I had lost all patience. And the slightest show of such emotion, the slightest push-back whatsoever, and you've got trouble. What kind of freedom is that?

It's insane.

[Initech]

55. In the last week, I've been in LAX, ATL, DTW, SNA and DEN.

No problems at any of them.

[triple point]

62. Yeah but try getting on a plane from any of those

:rofl:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

73. SNA and DEN are usually pretty good, LAX and ATL are always terrible

TSA at LAX, the only place I have ever been called "whitey" in my entire life.

[Initech]

92. TSA at LAX sucks, I've been searched a couple of times there.

The one airport I *ALWAYS* get searched at though is BNA and I don't know what is but I seem to be a search magnet at that place.

[petronius]

94. LAX has always been pleasant for me, but Boston invariably sucks

The unevenness of the TSA behavior and the checkpoint 'rules' is just another sharp stick in the eye for airline passengers...

[Initech]

97. Depends on which terminal at LAX.

1, 2, and 6 I've had no problems at, 3 and 4 are usually major pains in the ass. Haven't been through TBIT though.

I've never been through BOS but DCA wasn't that great.

[Libertas1776]

56. Whenever

I have flown, even after 9/11, it never has really been all that bad of an experience for me. Strangely, though, I can't say the same for relatives I have met or dropped off at the airport. They seem to always have a crappy time. I seem to have lucked out...for now.

[mnhtnbb]

57. Because of my hip replacement I get frisked every time I fly.

I HATE flying anywhere now, not just because of the indignity of being frisked every time.
Most airplanes are nothing more than airborne buses. The coach seats are crammed in--and with
the number of obese Americans--the chances are there will be someone overflowing their seat into yours.

The food for purchase in coach is awful. Pay for baggage handling, unless you carry on. Make sure
to get a seat in the back and hope your connection gets you there early enough to be first to board,
or there will be no room for your carry-on luggage.

Every time I have enough miles, I upgrade to business/first class. It makes a huge difference
in comfort.

[ixion]

59. first class

is the way the whole plane should be, in my opinion. I've flown first class a few times. It is a far more enjoyable flight.

[mnhtnbb]

60. For the few years that American had more leg room in coach, it was

much more pleasant.

If I can't upgrade to business/first class, next choice, try to get an exit row. After that, cross fingers and hope no one sits in the middle seat.

[backscatter712]

64. And the funny thing is that the liquid restrictions are based on total bullshit!

Binary liquid bombs? Don't make me laugh. The chemistry just doesn't work in a way that's feasible for sneaking on an airliner to blow it up.

In most cases, the explosive in question is TATP - Triacetone triperoxide. At first, the ingredient list looks simple: sulfuric acid, hydrogen peroxide and acetone. Acetone's easy enough to get a hold of. For hydrogen peroxide, you can't make do with the 5% solution you get at the drug store - you need the pure stuff, which doesn't get sold to just anyone. You could try boiling it down to make it stronger, but then you risk blowing up your improvised explosives lab before you're able to kill any infidels.

Anyways, let's assume you have the ingredients. You first combine, veeeery carefully, the hydrogen peroxide and sulfuric acid, to make a concoction known in chemistry circles as "piranha solution" - because it eats through almost everything. It's very corrosive, and absolutely very dangerous. You're not going to be able to sneak this stuff onto the airplane in a Gatorade bottle - it'll eat right through it. You put the piranha solution into a salt-ice bath, because it needs to be cold.

You add the acetone, using a medicine dropper, one drop at a time, while watching the temperature on a thermometer because if it gets too hot, you get the wrong chemical reaction, and no TATP. If you add it too fast, you end up with a runaway reaction that causes the solution to boil over, and FWOOSH! You have scalding hot acid melting your face off! Eventually, assuming you didn't pass out from the fumes or melt your face off, you'll have the ingredients added, then you have to wait for several hours for the TATP to precipitate out of the solution. Then you strain out the solution, verrrry carefully, and voila, you have a high explosive so shock and temperature sensitive that it makes nitroglycerin look safe. There's a reason why Hamas "engineers" are frequently missing fingers and call TATP "Mother of Satan". Zazi's completely out of his mind to even try this! Trained chemists in a professional laboratory damned well know better than to try this.

In short, it's not a recipe that you can manage in an airport bathroom, and just the smell from the fumes will let everyone know something antisocial is happening.

Which means the whole liquids ban is utter bullshit, and the only reason the TSA keeps it in place is so their petty little thugs have yet another excuse to bully people.

[ixion]

78. great information, thanks!

if journalists were doing there job and reporting real information, the ban would not stand.

[cherokeeprogressive]

66. I guess I'm a little more easy going than most...

Take your shoes off? That's a problem? More often than not I'm wearing shorts and slaps. I'd go completely barefoot all the time (excepting when there's snow on the ground of course) if it were possible. Stepping out of my slaps is about as much of a problem as putting my keys in the little tray, and even then that's not a problem, because my keys and wristwatch are in my checked baggage, behind one of those little TSA locks. The only things you'll find in my carry-on are those which I deem necessary for my entertainment during my flight, and usually some snacks I bought inside the terminal. Oh, and maybe some sneakers if I think it might be raining at my destination.

I get to the airport more than a couple of hours before my flight, have a few cocktails, grab a bite, shop the gift shops, and settle in at my gate with a newspaper and a good book. Oh yeah, I forgot... and a smile. I watch all the angry people going here and there, mad because they had to take their shoes off. All my precious liquids are in my checked baggage, so that's not a problem, and I've already clipped my nails, so there are no nailclippers to get pissed off over losing. By the time my flight is called, I've got a sweet buzz, am relaxed and thoroughly entertained, and looking forward to a little bump and shake turbulence...

I'm easy that way. Being a veteran of literally thousands of sporting events and concerts, standing in lines isn't a problem for me. Maybe that's why I can honestly say I've never had a headache in my entire life...

[ixion]

79. it's not the acts themselves, it's what they represent

that pisses me off. It most certainly is not the way a free society behaves, in my opinion.

[ThatsMyBarack]

69. *As a competitive figure skater, the boarding process is nerve-racking!*

I make every effort to carry on my skate bag (with my skates and costumes in it), to shove in an overhead bin (it fits!). Going through security, I just never know if a TSA "cop" is gonna make me turn around and (pay to) check my skate bag, running a high risk of my equipment getting lost!

That's why I never fly anywhere to skate in competitions anymore--except to Las Vegas. Worst case scenario: If I can't skate, I can play! ;)

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

71. Nothing gives you that "secure" feeling quite like...

watching the imbecile about to violate your 4th amendment rights flash menacing gang signs at another TSA screener a few rows over who is doing the same.

I would love to see The Smoking Gun do a gallery of TSA screeners arrested in their uniforms.

[ixion]

80. heh... well said

I agree. :applause:

[armyowalgreens]

72. I haven't flown in a couple years. But it wasn't that bad when I travelled.

[Skittles]

76. I'm a frequent flyer and have really had no problems

remember, it's terrorists who necessitate this kind of shit, not TSA "thugs"

[ixion]

81. the TSA thugs are the terrorists

in my opinion.

[Skittles]

93. as I said, I am a frequent flyer

I've had no problems with TSA folk

[HipChick]

89. Me, too..Frequent Flyer for last 15yrs....

no problem here either...I travel 100% for my job, 50 weeks out the year...If anything happens on a plane, it will be the same crybabies saying that TSA should have done more.

[miyazaki]

77. I'd rather bitch about the ticket prices instead of this bs.

the scrutiny at the airport is already routine enough.

[ixion]

82. then by all means, start a thread about it

everyone has certain things that bother them. Just because it doesn't bother you, doesn't mean it bothers no one.

[IDemo]

83. I haven't flown since 1999

And only a couple of times prior to that. I hated every minute of the airport experience then, and that was before the "Your shoes, citizen!" nonsense took over.

[Haole Girl]

84. Question:

Was your 1oz cologne in a clear, sealed, baggie?

If so, and the TSA agent just "felt" it was too big you should have taken down that agent's name and reported him/her.

Once, they tried to tell me a 1.5 oz body lotion was too big. I said, "Why don't you read it-- it says 1.5 oz right on the bottle." They left me alone.

Also, I don't let anybody frisk me without asking them for their name first and telling them if they do more than just pat me down with the back of their hand I will report them. I don't put up with that crap anymore.

[ixion]

85. no, it was in a sealed glass container... the container it came in

and had already passed through security both on this trip, and many others. This person was just looking to harass me for some reason, in my opinion.

[Haole Girl]

87. For your carry-on...

any liquid/cream or gel is supposed to be in a 1 clear quart size sealed baggie. That might be the reason they threw it out.

[Ms. Toad]

95. More likely it was 1 oz of cologne in a much larger container.

Even if it fits in a clear quart size sealed baggie, no individual container (regardless of the quantity of liquid in it) is permitted to have a volume over 3.4 oz.

At least that is what I take from the way the OP (and subsequent ones) were worded.

Although I agree that flying is a pain, and that none of this makes us any safer, if my impression is correct the argument being made is sort of like arguing that you can't be stopped for speeding today on a road that no one stopped you from speeding on yesterday.

[truebrit71]

102. More likely the TSA liked that cologne...

...

[Ms. Toad]

103. That's why the OP worded it so carefully . . .

"I had a bottle of cologne with less than an ounce of liquid in it. It passed through on my initial flight, and was confiscated on my way home, because the agent felt the bottle was 'too big'."

It seems to me pretty clear that the issue was an over-size bottle - particularly since I don't see the OP suggesting anywhere that the bottle had a volume of less than 3.4 oz; just that other TSA had previously let it through.

I agree that the rules are stupid - particularly the rules on liquids. That said, if you aren't willing to put up with them - don't fly. It's rude to fly but pretend you don't have to follow the rules, because that inconveniences everyone else in line behind you - both by the time delay and because (depending on how you challenge the agents) they get cranky and take it out on everyone else who follows you.

[truebrit71]

105. Right...but TSA has been known to "confiscate" things that have been perfectly within the rules..

..and the OP is talking about the cowing of the general populace into subservience with the threat of mis-treatment/having personal property stolen..which you allude to in your last sentence...it reminds me of statements made by Jews at camps.."don't say anything to annoy the guards or they will take it out on everyone else"....Land of the free? Really?

[Ms. Toad]

106. I'm not talking about not standing up for your rights

I am talking about people who know the rules and deliberately try to get away with breaking them. The OP didn't say the bottle was within the limits (and from the wording it appeared to me that the OP knew it was over the limit and is annoyed at getting caught).

If you want to challenge the carry-on rules - great. You have my full support - but the screening gate is not the proper place to challenge them. The peons there have no authority to change the rules, and forcing everyone behind you to wait while your bags to through screening 2-3 times is just plain rude to everyone behind you. And when you're rude about breaking the rules, chances are it is going to be hard for the TSA to just take it and not have some of it reflect back out. That was pretty hard for me to do when I had a job of enforcing (different) rules, and I only encountered rude SOBs who pretended the rules didn't apply to them once or twice a week a week rather than several times a day. It's just human nature that when you're having a bad day others you encounter are going to share in some of it.

[Hawkowl]

88. As an airline pilot

I am absolutely convinced we live in a fascist police state. The only thing the TSA goons are missing are swastika armbands. I absolutely HATE HATE HATE my working environment since 2001. And it's not because of the terrorists, it's because of our own government.

By watching the whole airport security scam, I think I have gained a depressing, terrifying insight as to how an entire population willing gives over its civil rights to uneducated, sadistic, Nazi's who are just following orders. In my opinion, the airport security is just the tip of the iceberg.

I no longer buy into America as a "free" country. Look at Pittsburgh as the latest egregious example of Amerika, a fascist state.

[triple point]

91. For years, I pitied my airline pilot friends, many of which I taught to fly long ago

and took some pleasure at the relative freedom from hassle I enjoyed as a corporate pilot. That 'gap' has significantly closed lately...we are subjected to some of the same bullshit at airports with commercial service. It does absolutely nothing useful for security but it gives a few jobs to a few self-appointed hotshot 'agents.'

Are you PDX based?

[Hawkowl]

98. Alas

I'm based in Denver and so commute from PDX. Luckily, PDX seems to have some of the most reasonable TSA fools.

[Missy Vixen]

90. I don't fly now unless I absolutely have to

I use a CPAP machine when I sleep due to sleep apnea. I flew in and out of Dallas for a professional conference two years ago. It was obvious that the TSA employee had never seen a CPAP before. It was "swabbed" three different times. I was asked for my boarding pass. I was asked for my driver's license. It was taken back for swabbing one more time, and I could do nothing but stand and wait (and be verbally abused by the people behind me in line). I might add that I watched another TSA employee verbally unload on another passenger wearing Red Cross volunteer garb minutes before for daring to ask him to point her in the correct direction of her gate.

Last year's trip to San Francisco for the same conference -- they couldn't have been nicer. Security was a piece of cake.

Seattle's TSA employees actually admitted in an article written by someone at the Seattle Times that they were taking items from the confiscation area for personal use with no repercussions.

And, yeah, I'm pretty unhappy that our current President thinks this perfectly acceptable. Then again, nobody makes him take his shoes off, and I'm sure he hasn't had to do so for a very, very long time now.

[Hekate]

96. I agree. "Your papers, bitte." They "practiced" on me once, probably out of boredom...

... since I was in Salt Lake City airport. I had come there due to a medical emergency of my mother's, so I was already about as stressed as you could get. I had one piece of luggage that I had packed as tight as possible, and six (6) TSA operatives surrounded me and did everything but take the rivets out of my little roll-aboard. They may have been a little surprised when I finally began to sob and couldn't stop (stress, remember? and they pushed me right over the edge), but that did not deter them from their duty to examine and question every item while requiring me to remain in one position with my arms extended.

Then they couldn't actually repack my suitcase themselves, so I was handed my possessions that had taken me more than an hour to get in there and sent off to catch my plane before it took off.

Strangely enough, I have discovered that most people really do not get it. They're not sympathetic and they seem to assume that the TSA way of doing things makes sense. I could deal with it if it actually made some kind of sense, but to me it does not. It was put in place by the most unAmerican administration in our history, and seems less designed to keep us safe than to make us paranoid and to keep us afraid of our own government.

Hekate

[lib2DaBone]

104. The TSA Goons Stole Cash from my Bags.. can I prove it? No.

But I do know the envelope was there before the TSA Goons took control of my bags? WTF? (I forgot I had the envelope of travel money in the outer pocket. Would I do it different if I had the chance? Oh... you bet your sweet ass I would have ....had I known how corrupt the system is. You think I like to give money to the TSA Goon Squad? Dont trust those TSA People any further than you throw a Piano. Am I bitter? Yes.. of course.

They also took my $100 Calibre lighter.. (the TSA Goon looked at it and said.. "Nice".) They then said that if I made a scene or opposed them in any way...I would face many more problems than I currently had...he said I could miss my flight and stay behind and I coulde file a paper complaint in the TSA Office. Ya, sit in a TSA Office for 6 hours and fill out forms....

Oh Ya.. that would really get some results... more paper... Fuck me running....

[mudplanet]

107. Cowardice is epidemic in America.

Courage isn't the absence of fear, it's the willingness to confront it and act in spite of it.

For nearly twenty years I researched US foreign policy. Hundreds of thousands of innocent, unarmed people murdered at the hands of fascist thugs equipped and trained by the US. When I talked to Americans about it I generally got one of four responses: you're lying, you don't know what you're talking about, I don't care and, (the best) I think it's a good thing. Those people are the equivalent of the townspeople of Auschwitz, and they are the majority of Americans.

Then 911 happened and Americans got a very modest dose of their own medicine. Their response was to become hysterical with fear, suspend the Constitution, and become like Nazis. Cowardice on a national scale. We can murder millions and shrug about it's regrettable necessity, but we have a crying fit if WE get a stubbed toe.

Now I have to go through the equivalent of a strip search when I enter a court house or try to get on an airplane. Fuck dignity, who needs it.

Those who would surrender essential liberties for a little safety deserve neither. (Ben Franklin)

Common sense and courage are in short supply in America.