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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:38 PM
Original message
I Remember America


President Barack Obama returns to the Oval Office. (Photo: Pete Souza / White House)

I Remember America
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed

Tuesday 12 April 2011

It has not always been this way. Maybe we're all suckers for the down-the-memory-hole 24-hour news cycle nonsense that has afflicted this country for far too long already, because it is getting harder and harder to remember the simple fact that it has not always been this way.

This, however, is how it is now.

On Wednesday, the Democratic president of the United States will stand somberly before a bank of television cameras to announce the orderly annihilation of the social contract that has guarded and sustained the American people for generations. It was a Democratic president who created that contract, followed by other Democratic presidents who defended it, and now a Democratic president is choosing to undo it. Not all at once, of course. It will take time in the doing, but the downhill run to that dissolution begins tomorrow. According to the Wall Street Journal:

In a speech Wednesday, Mr. Obama will propose cuts to entitlement programs, including Medicare and Medicaid, and changes to Social Security, a discussion he has largely left to Democrats and Republicans in Congress. He also will call for tax increases for people making over $250,000 a year, a proposal contained in his 2012 budget, and changing parts of the tax code he thinks benefit the wealthy.

Until now, Mr. Obama has been largely absent from the raging debate over the long-term deficit. The White House has done little with the recommendations of its own bipartisan deficit commission. And Mr. Obama's 2012 budget didn't offer many new ideas for tackling entitlement spending, among the biggest long-term drains on the federal budget.

The White House move caught Democrats in Congress off guard, according to aides, and details of the president's proposals were sketchy. Mr. Plouffe said the president will name a dollar amount for deficit reduction, although the White House wouldn't provide specifics. Introducing taxes into the discussion has the potential to complicate the resolution of coming budget fights, specifically the need to raise the debt ceiling, a move needed to prevent the U.S. defaulting on its debt.


Republicans in congress greeted the news of Obama's upcoming speech with barely restrained glee, and chuckled into their sleeves over the idea that his proposed tax increase on rich people was anything other than dead on arrival. They have the president's pattern down pretty well now - he does some big talking at first, eventually concedes the argument by agreeing with most of what the GOP proposes, they double down by adding things like riders to eliminate Planned Parenthood, he blinks, and they get pretty much everything they want. We saw this pattern in last week's absurd brawl over a government shutdown, and with a fight over the debt ceiling looming over the horizon, the GOP knows full well that yet another victory is all but assured.

How can it be that a Democratic president is willing to undo the great work of previous generations, to such a degree that he will be the one to propose it on Wednesday? Could this not be some kind of high-level, high-stakes chess game happening here? Anything is possible, I suppose, but when one looks deeply into the slate of brutal cuts agreed to in order to avert the shutdown last week, it becomes vividly clear that there are very few sacred cows presently safe from slaughter. The Washington Post reported:

More than half of the $38 billion in spending cuts that lawmakers agreed to last week in the 2011 budget compromise that averted a government shutdown would hit education, labor and health programs. Funding for federal Pell grants, job training and a children's health-care initiative would face cuts, senior congressional aides said. A multitude of other programs - from highway and high-speed rail projects to rural development initiatives - also would experience significant reductions.

The bill contains some policy provisions, including language preventing Guantanamo Bay detainees from being transferred into the United States for any purpose. And it eliminates funding for four Obama administration "czars," whose positions had been vacant: the "health care czar," "climate change czar," "car czar" and "urban affairs czar."

Republicans were able to terminate more than 55 programs in the areas of health, labor and education, resulting in a total savings of more than $1 billion. In addition, two minor components of President Obama's health-care law will be eliminated: the Consumer Operated and Oriented Plan and the Free Choice Voucher programs.

Although the pain would be felt across virtually the entire government - the deal includes a $1 billion across-the-board cut shared among all non-defense agencies - Republicans were able to focus the sharpest cuts on areas they have long targeted. The Education, Labor, and Health and Human Services departments, which represent about 28 percent of non-defense discretionary spending, face as much as a combined $19.8 billion, or 52 percent, of the total reductions in the plan.

In addition, the Environmental Protection Agency, long a target of conservatives, will see a $1.6 billion cut, representing a 16 percent decrease from 2010 levels. Key EPA programs include the Fish and Wildlife Services ($141 million cut from last year), the National Park Service ($127 million cut from last year) and "clean and drinking water state revolving funds" ($997 million cut from last year).


Indeed, included in Friday's deal were significant cuts to rural development, rental assistance programs, scientific and technical research, a broad swath of work by the Corps of Engineers, energy efficiency programs, renewable energy programs, defense environmental cleanup programs, community development programs, climate change programs, clean water programs, NEA programs, dislocated worker assistance, green jobs innovation programs, rural health programs, HIV/AIDS/viral hepatitis/STD and TB prevention, the LIHEAP contingency fund, literacy programs, AmeriCorps, high speed rail programs, community development funds, and a raft of foreign aid.

Absent from the debate is any meaningful discussion of the bloated defense budget and the three wars we are currently fighting. Our adventure in Libya has already cost nearly $700 million, and has yet to accomplish anything other than a bloody stalemate that looks to grind on interminably. Absent from the debate is any meaningful discussion of punitive actions - both financial and criminal - to be taken against the Wall Street and bank barons who delivered us to this damaged estate. Yes, Mr. Obama will discuss raising taxes on the wealthy on Wednesday, but those words are likely to be the only outcome in the end. If it was going to get done, it would have happened before this new congress arrived. Instead, the president surrendered again, and given the debt ceiling gun now being wielded by the GOP, any talk of raising those taxes will amount to nothing more than wind.

I remember America, and it has not always been this way.

http://www.truth-out.org/i-remember-america
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. I Remember America
I Remember an America when:

- Blacks couldn't even eat at the same lunch counter let alone be President

- Women where better seen not heard

- Shanty towns where set up in most major cities

- We owned SLAVES

- Social Security was even invented, let alone medicare and medicaid

- Children worked in mills and factories instead of going to school

- A President was granted his title by the SCOTUS

- A President lied about getting us involved in two wars

- We dropped two nuclear bombs on a country


Honestly, you think we have it bad now because of a budget? I would suggest taking two doses of perspective with a side of realism
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. And you actually think it's better now?
Hm.

How nice for you.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. And you think we are worse off?
How not nice for you.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. What's this "we" shit, DFab?
You got a rich mouse in your pocket?

I don't.

Enjoy your 420...apparently, you can afford the smoke to celebrate.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Woah man..
Thanks for making it personal

I guess you dont like it when people try to argue some random points about how awful it is right now..

And I'll have you know I've been living hand to mouth since I left college three years ago.

Sorry but weren't we talking about what is happening in America right now, not trying to insult each other?
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Moondog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
73. If you left college three years ago, how is it that
you remember when all of those things in your Post #1 were the status quo. You must have been the world's oldest undergrad. What's your secret for such astounding longevity?
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. Crushed pearls in vinegar
and the blood of a virgin every full moon. :P

So instead of remembering I guess I should say, I've learned about and hold in my head the recent history and policies of our fair country
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Moondog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Uh, where are you finding virgins?
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Haha tricks of the trade my friend..
tricks of the trade...
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes, yes. Remembering and wanting to return to what was good in the past means we can't possibly
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 03:56 PM by Brickbat
hold onto the changes we made to the things that were bad.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Well.. considering wanting to return to what is good
Also means returning to the time period in which this country's social agenda treated gays, blacks, and women as second class citizens


Ignoring the social and political climate while talking about how "good it was back then" is a bit dishonest .
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. It doesn't mean that at all.
It means we can take what worked and bring it to our current time, not returning to that time period.

Understanding that the ideas and policies that helped many people over the past 70 years have been and are being deliberately wrecked and obscured and wanting to hold onto them is a strong liberal ideal.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Yes but
offering intelligent cuts to programs that have become redundant due to new policies, such as Government Healthcare, allows for certain cuts to other programs

Wanting to continue programs that were introduced 70 years ago, without looking at them in an honest light, is NOT a liberal ideal. Trying to make the government run better for more people. THAT is a liberal ideal.
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
88. When did we get "Government Healthcare"?
You consider Medicare and Medicaid redundant? And LIHEAP doesn't help anyone nowdays, right?
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Your right it's called the Affordable Care Act.
I said funding for some parts of medicare were redundant

Here is the tax code for the bill : http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=220809,00.html

http://www.ebglaw.com/showclientalert.aspx?Show=14010

The Medicare Shared Savings Program is really interesting, and shows promise not only for getting better care where it's needed, but also making sure the money goes to who needs it as well.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Damn, you must be old!
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. lol yea beyond my years
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mountainlion55 Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. ambrose bierce
Oh youth you are wasted on the young.
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Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Let me congratulate you on
how nice you have it now. Good for you!

I could list what factually, is effecting "some" of us terribly, but I don't want to rain on that parade.

While you speak of more general issues that I agree with concerning gains made, there are some very deep and close to home problems for many Americans now and many of us are living them out in ways that may not impact you ... yet. Some gains are being torn and tattered on a political and financial shore of destruction that will bring waves and waves of destitution.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. Please enlighten me
I mean, its not like my first two paychecks of every month go to rent, not like the third is for feeding, and the fourth to pay taxes

It's not like I've been in debt the moment I graduated college, into a job market that quiet frankly doesn't give a flying fuck if you have a degree anymore. Tell me, what policies are immediately effecting you that you would like to have changed and or replaced with a policy from the past 200 years.

Is it the cuts to medicare? Because I really dont think it's those...

Here is a link of what is getting cut and why

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/whats-getting-cut-in-the-fy-2011-budget/2011/04/11/AFMIynLD_blog.html

If you notice, CHIP is getting cut, except the cuts are for bonuses that the states didn't meet in their enrollment of children in the program. So if you don't have extra people on the program, you don't get extra money. Sounds reasonable to me.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Thanks for providing a handy reference list to where the Republicans want to take us.
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 04:27 PM by pacalo
-- Taking away women's rights;

-- Creating more shanty towns by breaking the backs of the middle class & poor;

-- Creating slave labor by dissolving the unions; &

-- Together with the elimination of labor union protections, the attack of the public school structure could create an economic climate where children could very well be working instead of going to school.

Obama could use some of LBJ's backbone to protect the good programs created by the Democratic party, back when it was understood that the government was of, by, & for the people. If not for LBJ, Obama would not be president today.
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Wait Wut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. They have a word for that...
...it's called "Progress".

Love that word. Too bad it's so misunderstood these days. Just in my "short" 46 years on this planet I've seen much of this "progress". Sometimes you don't notice it happening. Then you look back and realize that the world has grown up with you. That other nations are looking to us for guidance in democracy. That women, blacks and hispanics can run for political office.

Thanks for being positive.


:fistbump:
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
85. Nice, but I doubt you are 150+ years old.
So what America do you actually remember?

Hell, if we are going to play the childlike word game, "I remember an America" when:

We almost eradicated Native Americans.

We threw immigrant Chinese workers into labor camps for the railroad to use as slaves.

Interned Japanese Americans out of deeply seated racism.

Blow torched villages for fun.

Burnt women at the stake.

Dropped anchor.



Honestly, if you are going to play word games with the title - I remember an America when sensible people actually cared about their fellow Americans.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
113. And this president is taking us right back to that -
only he's got 3 or 4 wars now by my count.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. "Maybe it's time to revisit the assumption that the Obama White House got rolled."
OBAMA GOT ROLLED -- OR DID HE?....

<...>

Tim Fernholz notes that finding nearly $40 billion in cuts proved difficult, leading to a reliance on "clever accounting" that makes the package of cuts look bigger than it is.

For example, the final cuts in the deal are advertised as $38.5 billion less than was appropriated in 2010, but after removing rescissions, cuts to reserve funds, and reductions in mandatory spending programs, discretionary spending will be reduced only by $14.7 billion.

White House officials said throughout the process that the composition of the cuts was more important than the top-line number, and that including mandatory cuts allowed that top line to grow while limiting the immediate impact of the cuts.

The move also keeps the 2011 discretionary baseline slightly higher, a terrain advantage for the Democrats heading into the 2012 spending process.

<...>

It turns out, a lot of the cuts related to money that wasn't going to be spent (leftover Census money, for example), eliminating programs that were set to expire, and not repeating expenditures intended to be one-time infusions anyway.

Maybe it's time to revisit the assumption that the Obama White House got rolled.


CBS: Budget deal details: Cuts that aren't quite cuts

<...>

Among the cuts:

$700 million from clean and safe drinking water programs;
$390 million from heating subsidies;
$276 million from pandemic flu prevention programs; and
$1.5 billion from the president's new $8 billion initiative to spur high-speed rail development.

Many of the cuts appear to have been cuts in name only, because they came from programs that had unspent funds.

For example, $1.7 billion left over from the 2010 census; $3.5 billion in unused children's health insurance funds; $2.2 billion in subsidies for health insurance co-ops (that's something the president's new health care law is going to fund anyway); and $2.5 billion from highway programs that can't be spent because of restrictions set by other legislation.

About $10 billion of the cuts comes from targeting appropriations accounts previously used by lawmakers for so-called earmarks - pet projects like highways, water projects, community development grants and new equipment for police and fire departments. Republicans had already engineered a ban on earmarks when taking back the House this year.

<...>


Summary of H.R.1473; FY2011 Appropriations


Or keep spinning!!!

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Hm.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. What does that have to do with the CR? n/t
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Everything
Once you look up.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. It has nothing to do with the CR. Nothing! n/t
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Mm.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. Your response shows it is much more about bashing a personality than about being critical of policy.
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 05:00 PM by BzaDem
Since when your main policy point was debunked, rather than apologizing or at least correcting your article, you leave it up there (since it allows you to score points in your personality bashing crusade, irrespective of truth or fact).
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #40
69. Projection
Oh cruelest of mistresses!
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
86. Of course to you it doesn't. You cannot play 5 dimensional chess.
To the rest of us, that actually understand how the world works...it means everything that is in the OP. Trying reading other peoples links instead of just posting your own and then running away.

Good one Will. The rest of us 'get it'.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. Whoa. Apparently, Reagan has risen from the grave.
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 04:04 PM by Zorra
He really is the conservative messiah.

We have a real serious problem in the WH.

Great piece. Thanks for the information.

Unfortunately, it's even worse than I expected.

r'd
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. another good one, Will. K&R
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. K/R
Very good.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
20. Anyone who proposes cuts to Soc.Sec, Medicare, and Medicaid IS. NO. DEMOCRAT.
Period.

Not only is such a person not a Democrat, s/he's not even a decent human being.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. This really should be the breaking point observed by all who post here
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 04:36 PM by kenny blankenship
Anyone who crosses that line can't come back.

There are bright lines that must be maintained. For example, here at DU you CANNOT be against same sex marriage. It's actually a rule, which is enforced. I approve of that rule.

And though I am one directly affected by the status of civil rights for homosexuals, I can't help but see this battle over Social Security and Medicare as larger and more central to the identity and integrity of the Democratic Party. I cannot believe there would not be a similar zero tolerance among Democrats for those who undermine Social Security or Medicare or who apologize for the saboteurs of these foundational New Deal & Great Society policies.

If there is a "wing" of the Democratic Party that now seeks to rollback Social Security and Medicare, then in my view either they need to go, because they are NOT Democrats as you put it, or else, we just don't have a political party anymore separate from the Republicans. If they DON'T go then the Democrats have been successfully Trojanned Horsed and are defunct forever.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
49. Thank you. I also don't think that anyone who supports tax cuts for the wealthiest, when their
marginal rate is already at HISTORICALLY LOW levels, is a Democrat either. That person is certainly no friend of the working woman or man, which is what Democrats USED to be.

There have to be some lines in the sand.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
99. The New Democrats were always a poison pill. I don't know
they became in control of the Democratic Party. I guess it was by running left and governing right.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. you are no judge of who is or isn't anything-
you have a right to your opinion, but that is all it is.

Changes to SS Medicare and Medicaid may mean that the bottom line isn't the same- That doesn't automatically mean that the programs are going to be less effective.

This is a hell of a lot of projection as presented.

Mr. Pitt, hasn't offered ANY facts to back up these fears. If indeed there ARE substantial cuts to these programs, I'll join in the voices who cry "NO" but I'm not about to jump on the "he sucks" bandwagon-

That doesn't make me an "apologist" it makes me someone who has learned that not everything that gets spread around in the political gossip world is true, and I'd prefer not be part of spreading shit before it's time.

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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Here are the cuts broken down agency by agency
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. thanks for this-
while they aren't something to be happy about, they aren't the nightmare cuts that some individuals are painting them to be.

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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Of course they aren't
Does it suck. Yes

Does it suck as much as some seem to want it to. No

Does it allow for people to break themselves upon the rock of martyrdom for their "liberal ideals". Yes

Is that helpful. No
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
46. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!
:applause::applause::applause:

:patriot:

:hi:
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
24. Your memory of America is stunted by your absolute hatred for the man.
I have yet to see you give him one iota of credit to him for anything, really.

But that's fine, we need "dissenting opinion'

YMMV
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
53. Are you kidding me?
Pitt has hung in there with O a helluva lot longer that O deserved. So long, in fact, that I began to wonder if the "Will Pitt" who took Bush to task so well for 8 years had been caught sleeping next to an extraterrestrial pod. :eyes:

"...your absolute hatred for the man." ??? Seriously? I see Pitt calling out bad policy/actions -- that's just business, not personal.

I'm sorry, but this just illustrates perfectly just how out of touch some supporters have become.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #53
67. Yadda yadda blabbdey bloop de bloop.
We got it, on to the next.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #67
80. perfect illustration, indeed.
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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
77. Yep. In fact, I remember him being very insulting to those that didn't buy into some of O's views.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. I remember it just as you do.
For a long time he was very much about waving the poms and getting everybody in line. Like I said, it was something out of the Body Snatchers. :scared:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #53
101. Thank goodness for the ignore function.
I can only imagine who you are dealing with.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. It's still too early
to be writing obituaries for this administration, IMHO.

As a recipient of both Social Security and Medicare for twenty years, I can attest to the reality of fiscally wasteful processes and policies in both. Fixing them would save significant sums for the programs and ultimately improve service and benefits. I'm willing to wait and see.


-
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. The plan isn't to "fix" Social Security and Medicare. The plan is to dismantle it.

One big step at a time.

To achieve this objective it will have to be a bi-partisan effort.

Republicans can't do it alone.

Or they would have.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. do you have any facts to back that up?
or are you forcasting your fear?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
68. Nope - they never do.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #28
100. Soc Sec has less than 1% administrative cost.
The Repukes wand to cut SSA funding, which will make keeping up with errors a hell of a lot harder to do.

There is no "waste" in Medicare which is not part of the waste that is endemic to our entire fragmented health care non-system. All the proposals to "fix" Medicare do nothing but to vastly ramp up the opportunities for yet more waste by increasing the role of private insurers.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
35. That will be the straw for me. If he touches any of those programs in
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 04:43 PM by RegieRocker
the slightest negative way I will be through with the Obama. Not so sure there is democratic party anymore.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Really?
Its that black and white for you?

In the middle of a crisis you are gonna stamp your foot down to protect programs that, even if there are cuts, it won't effect the performance of those programs because....taa daa.. New legislations that make up for the cuts in the budget!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/whats-getting-cut-in-the-fy-2011-budget/2011/04/11/AFMIynLD_blog.html
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Yep. I have had it with him and those like you.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Yes.. "those" like me
Us awful awful mean evil liberals who value a functioning government over our own high and mighty black and white view of the world.


"those" like me, who understand the political climate?


Or "those" like me who don't go after someone personally, but discusses their opinions with facts?


am I one of "THOSE" people??
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Anyone who is in favor of cutting any of those programs is no liberal or
a democrat. Trickery.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Well see thats just not true.
Since I am a liberal, and a democrat, and if you read the cuts. Actually go and read the fucking budget, you would realize that it takes cuts from money that isn't being spent anyways.

What I am is a liberal who doesn't tow some party line about sacred cow legislation. If it was shitty cuts I would be all up in arms about it, but it's not. It's smart, effective governing that was used to make republicans look like fools.

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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Lol so it's money not being spent! Get this! We have money left over.
What a crock. They have been raiding S.S. for a long time and you stated you're behind it. Too much.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. We have been raiding Social Security??
What the eff are you talking about? Listening to Sharon Angle a bit too much.

The SSA uses left over pension money to buy non-negotiable bonds from the Treasury Department. Those bonds must be honored by the Treasury at any point. Therefore, you need your pension, you get it, till then it sits in a bond and makes money for the entire federal budget. How is that a raid??

If you are upset that our money is being used to fund the government and you want transparency on what the interest on our taxes goes to, that is a question worth asking. But come on.. raiding SS? really?
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. Get a clue. Oh, I have you one now didn't I? Do some research.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Umm.. I have done some research
How about actually trying to make a point other then making a one off snappy comment. DId you even both reading my post or did you already have your comment all written up and ready to post?

http://peoplespension.infoshop.org/blogs-mu/2010/09/20/has-social-security-ever-been-%E2%80%9Craided%E2%80%9D/

The whole concept is that at the end of paying out all those pensions, there is going to be some money left over, what do you do with that money to make it work for you but also protect from the ups and downs of the free market? Put it in treasury bonds. The interest goes toward padding the national budget, and if, ever, there is a run on Social Security, the money with all come back from the Treasury, because thats how non-negotiable Treasury bonds work.

Do you understand?

If you pay out A and have B left over. You take B and invest it in a protected C.

If A needs B, then C will give it back to A.

If A doesn't need B, then B sits in C and accrues D

D is then used to protect A, if B ever runs out.

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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #65
71. Really? Read this.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. :facepalm:
I cant tell if you are messing with me now.

you re post what i post to make my point and assume it makes yours??

There is no raid on Social Security, the program uses surplus money to make investments in the Federal Treasury. HOW is that a raid??
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #74
110. You got to be kidding!
You didn't read anything did you?
:banghead:
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Wait Wut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. Wow.
That was uncalled for.

I'm glad to be in the group you've called "those like you".

Damn.
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #52
63. There comes a point when enough is enough. I made it clear.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. I think that is called quitting.
Enough is enough is an excuse.

You may have decided to give up, that doesn't mean that those who aren't in agreement with you are any less "liberal" or any less a "democrat" than you.

You are entitled to have your opinion, and to make your choices based on that opinion. So is everyone else on here.

I don't much like the "yer with em or yer with the enemy" mentality. I think its important to make decisions based on the facts and the actual situation, rather than summarilly dismissing people, OR issues without even thinking.

I don't agree with you- that doesn't mean you don't have something worth saying, or that you can't help me see things in a different way.

:shrug:
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #66
76. Pschyobable. I quit nothing, I fire. I fire my employer it is he who quits
me. You have no idea of the b.s. that has been programmed into your brain. I will fire all those willfully engaged in any changes to S.S.
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. Fire at huh? Don't retreat reload I guess...
I would also respectfully ask you don't call others opinions "brainwashed BS"

It doesn't help your civility.
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #81
109. Civility? To let s.s. be changed or touched in a negative
way? Try selling your snake oil to someone else.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #76
83. we live in a society- you don't have the imperial perogative-
Unless you are Donald Trump, you probably aren't going to get very far with the "Your fired" line.
:shrug:


As for what is in my brain, you have no knowledge of it whatsoever, so your opinion is kind of meaningless.

Is this all you have to offer?




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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #83
108. You're the quitter you have already submitted to b.s. . Obviously it's
all you got.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. "In the middle of a crisis..." What's the crisis?
:shrug:
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. ..Ummm
2 major wars
1 minor war

1 debit ceiling that is rapidly closing

a tea party that is pushing a largely SOCIAL agenda as if it were fiscal policy


Oh right. Annnnnd the Government almost shutdown.

I don't think I need to dig up any more crises right now to pile on.
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. That isn't a crisis. Giving tax breaks to the rich is the crisis. Wars? Pull the
hell out. Debt ceiling? Should have taxed the rich, stop giving money to religious organizations, cut the pork, etc. etc.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. everything you list has been going on for the last 10 yrs. so your
claim that we aren't in the middle of a crisis is voided by your own words.

:shrug:
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. ...You don't think we've been in a crisis the last 10 years?
I mean.. really?

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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. oh hell yes-
the person I was responding to said "what crisis" as if there were none,
when you answered, they dismissed your answer and went on to define what they believed would constitute a'crisis'- which turned out to be much of what we've been facing and dealing with since the 2000 'election'.-

So for them to claim there isn't a crisis, and then define it as where we in fact ARE and have been, seemed pretty .... silly- imo.

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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Ah I see
Sorry, gets confusing sometimes up in this piece.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #62
72. "crisis" and "systemic problems" are two very different things
Which I believe was the point that poster was trying to make.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
95. Really?
I mean...really?
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
37. HUGE K & R !!!
:kick:
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
42. K & R
Another great one from from William Pitt.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
48. disapointing. You are a gifted writer
and I've often appreciated the way you use that ability.

This OP and your responses to those who dare to question your perspective is really disapointing.

Oh well, Maybe next time.

:shrug:
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
58. I remember that America too Will
In it Democrats stood for something, for real people who can not face the forces of privilege alone. Democrats fought for what they believed in. They won some, and they lost some, but because they always fought overall they never lost ground. They gained it. We had that America for a long time, has it slipped too far to restore it?
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
59. Some chance that you're right.
But I'll wait and see.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
70. Well done Mr. Pitt, you magnificent bastid you.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
75. i bet he gets the reduction in entitlements and more tax CUTS for the rich
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
87. Maybe someday we will get adults in charge and that actually
care about the citizenry...not today, but someday!

Good article Will - I cannot believe people support the cuts, but to them a black and white world is so much easier to live in then the real one. :shrug:
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. How do you see the cuts as black and white?
I mean honestly I would argue those who support the cuts have a nuanced view of the political climate and an understanding about how recent legislation, especially concerning Healthcare, allows for certain movement in fundings.

I think it's more black and white to see it as, if you support cuts your wrong, if you don't your right... That is pretty black and white seeming to me.
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
91. Obama's 2012 campaign slogans
"Yes, we could have."
Yes, we still can if you re-elect me."

Oy.

If I wasn't so afraid of getting in another "Republican on stupid steroids"
and the future of the Supreme Court, I'd say put up a real Democrat
who can win.
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Mosaic Donating Member (851 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
92. I've been saying for two years
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 07:56 PM by Mosaic
The guy's a centrist. He is afraid of rocking the boat too much. Time has proven me right.

Also on edit, to center/right pundits like Chris Matthews, Obama is the most Progressive president we've ever had.

To real Progressives, he's center/right/DC establishment just like Matthews. Nice con job by one of corporate media's 'best'.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
93. A hearty REC for this one. For everyone who is throwing out crap like
"it's money that didn't get spent last year", etc. how about the President and the Democrats do two things:

1) State loudly and clearly at every opportunity "This is NOT a budget crisis. It IS A REVENUE CRISIS. We are conducting two wars that were unfunded by YOU REPUBLICANS WHO ARE NOW SCREAMING ABOUT BALANCED BUDGETS. We can solve this by taxing the wealthy and by taxing corporations. Help us do that. Or shut up."

2. Take all of those BILLIONS of dollars that are apparently just laying around unspent and collecting .05% interest and plug those dollars into our economy in the form of PUBLIC WORKS, PUBLIC SCHOOLS, MEDICAL CARE FOR THE INDIGENT, INFRASTRUCTURE improvements, and a thousand other things that will benefit someone besides corporate shills.

This bullshit of playing games with shifting funds around is crazy.

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cantbeserious Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
94. And At 54, This Is The Reason That I Will Not Fall For Voting For This Man Again
This is the last straw.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #94
111. Yeah. Let's help Romney, Trump or Palin become President.
That'll show 'em.
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Crewleader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
96. k&r
Edited on Tue Apr-12-11 11:34 PM by Crewleader
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
97. K&R
Edited on Wed Apr-13-11 01:27 AM by ProudDad
When I posted your article on GDP it sank like a stone...

There's an unreccing crew that drops by every OP I make -- within minutes I'm as under-water as my house...

Keep the great stuff coming, Will... :hi:
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
98. Healthcare costs have been out of control for many years, we have to do something about it.
I think that the national healthcare plan will help out a lot later on if the other programs are included in it.
Roll Medicaid and Medicare into the same national healthcare plan.

We need to either eliminate or decrease Social Security benefits paid to millionaires because they were not the ones intended to have it to begin with when that program was created.
So, some changes have to be made to SS, too.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #98
102. Bullshit. Cut millionaires out of SocSec and you lose your justification for raising the FICA cap
You just can't tell people they have to pay in and will never get anything out. Putting an upper limit on yearly payouts will probably be necessary if the FICA cap is eliminated, but your car insurance company is not allowed to refuse to pay for your totalled car just because you have enough saved to buy a new one without their help. And don't forget, SocSec income is taxable for those with a lot of income from other sources.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #102
104. No, millionaires were NEVER supposed to receive benefits like that. Nor billionaires.
It wasn't in the original plan at all.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. Neither was eliminating the FICA cap
There are just plain not enough millionaires to make any difference if they get no payouts. The original plan had a FICA cap precisely to limit SocSec to average wage earners. Take the cap away, and you have to let everyone have benefits. No reason why the bennies should be more than $30K a year for anyone, though.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. For retired investors that are eligible for SS benefits there is already a limit to the amounts.
But the Social Security program was NEVER intended to cover people that were wealthy when the SS program was created.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #106
107. Yes. That was the purpose of the FICA cap.
Eliminate that cap (which was NEVER intended to be eliminated), and you have to let everyone collect. With an anuual upper limit, of course.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #106
112. Means-testing Social Security is the sneakiest and quickest way to destroy it.
Edited on Wed Apr-13-11 10:00 AM by Nye Bevan
Why do you think multi-millionaires have allowed SS to survive this long? Because they collect from it just like you and I will, and their contributions are similar to ours. If the contributions cap is eliminated but not the benefits cap, or benefits become means-tested, then SS becomes just another welfare program. And we have all seen what tends to happen to plain old welfare programs.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. Bingo. You don't need to means test. Just have a maximum amount payable per year n/t
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
103. GOBAMA!
He should be ashamed. so sad.
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