Reply #12: Which ones are those?

[Chulanowa]

The Celts? The Germanic peoples? North African tribes? Unfortunately Morgana, the idea of some sort of goddess-centered worship prior to the Christianization of Europe is a very modern myth.

It starts with the romantic mythos of the "noble savage." Lacking good writing about the Celtic tribes, scholars of the modern era painted this idyllic picture of them being some sort of "salt of the earth" types who were totally in communion and balance with nature and had basically some sort of paradise until the Romans overtook them. Much of this was concocted for the same reason that the Native Americans got branded noble savages, or that Caribbean pirates were depicted as freedom-loving heroes - It was sacrificing historical fact for "golden age" bullcrap.

So you take this junk history, and fast-forward a few decades to the growing popularity of Wicca and its sort among the women's liberation movement. They look at this constructed history of total peace and oneness with nature and harmony and such, and deduced of course that this was all due to having a female-dominant society since a male-dominated one would never achieve harmony with anything due to evil penis-vibes, or somesuch. So all of a sudden, not only are these people beautiful and bronze-skinned nature-lovers who were tragically ground down by industry, but they are also enlightened and liberated goddess-worshipeprs who were smooshed by the patriarchal Church.

Fact is, we really don't have a good picture of what the Celts believed. What we do have is Greco-roman records of dubious historical value (During Boudicca's revolt, the Iceni were accused of throwing Roman babies in the air to impale on their spears, and then eat them. Raw. Riiiiiight.) What we do have implies a continent-wide Solar worship, that is then further broken down into more localized gods and powers over rivers, groves, rocks, etc. The most complete record of any sort of Celtic religious beliefs and mythos we have is that of pre-christian Ireland, and the stories of the Fomorians, Fir Bolg, Tuatha de Danaan, etc. And these stories are all pretty darned male-oriented, as are the fragments we have from Wales - a lot of the Welsh ones are outright misogynistic, full of women betraying their husbands, cuckolds, and other "women are treacherous" themes. Blodeuwedd comes to mind.

All that aside, there are rather reliable records of Celts raiding their neighbors for women and cattle - they usually kept the cattle, and most often sold the women into slavery. Life as a woman among the Celts was likely pretty damn brutal - not exactly a culture where you would expect religious practice to center around a goddess.

As for the Germanic peoples, we have some pretty good records of their views on the system. women were respected, but still more or less regarded as household furnishings rather than full people. The goddesses of the German peoples all tended towards the "housefrau" model, tending the house and kids while their husbands are running around inventing everything, killing the bad guys, exploring the world, etc. You'll notice that it's only the male gods that have a part in Ragnarok, for instance.

Not trying to be an ass - I just get a little annoyed by some of the bad history people have cooked up and that others repeat. It's like hearing all the versions of the Atlantis myth - thank you, Edgar Cayce, for screwing up a rather simple parable.

Now, all that said... I think we're pretty much on the same page here - the world could have done without Rome. Though, thank goodness Rome used slave labor, else we would have locomotives crossing the world thirteen centuries too soon!