Reply #26: i was raised in calif, teen late 70's and 80's.

[seabeyond]

i was on a swim team for almost two decades, both genders not in much of a suit.

we stripped down, both genders and there was no fan fair at all. no one would act stupidly or all guys would be on their ass. we had hot springs we would go out to as a group and the same.

that is what i was raised with.

that is why i get so angry today. for exactly your explanation with behavior of nudity. it seems the the young females today has become our mens whore, and they are looked that way, treated that way, and talked to that way. our girls are being conditioned this is the way they are suppose to be treated and the boys today are being conditioned this is their way of being a man, to see girls this way. i am so tired of listening to men say "i could hit it". it. and what, do these men really think they are cool.

i have read all three of your posts. i do think that europe is behind in womens autonomy in some ways. i believe the patriarchy is stronger in europe in some ways. you have not convinced me that this general behavior is not accepted in the culture.

i saw an half hour clip of italy tv of various shows. show after show of naked young women making fools of themselves at the entertainment of the middle aged, ugly man giggling. demeaning and treating them like animals.

there is no way to convince me this is progressive sophisticated mature perspective on sexuality. then again, also saw the "sophisticated" pres walk up on a female cop as she was bent over a hood, writing something down, and he pretended he was fuckin her from behind as he and the guys laughed. oh so funny. she realized what he was doing and was pissed.

i am not impressed with that sexual maturity and sophistication.

BUT

BUT

i am listening to you. i dont know how much i buy, but i do see so many more similarities in what you posted.

and i thank you for taking the time.