Blair issues warning to IRA

[emad]

Guardian

Matthew Tempest and agencies
Thursday January 6, 2005

The prime minister, Tony Blair, today told the IRA that it must give up criminal as well as terrorist activity as the organisation put out its annual new year message.

His comments followed increasing speculation that the IRA could have been behind a £22m bank raid in Belfast last month, possibly to "pension off" former militants. The chief constable of Northern Ireland, Hugh Orde, is expected to make a statement about the raid in Belfast tomorrow.

Mr Blair, who today answered questions about a possible link between the IRA and the robbery at his monthly press conference in London, warned that criminal activity was incompatible with the IRA's political wing, Sinn Fein, holding office.

"Be under no misunderstanding at all - there can be absolutely no place, not merely for terrorist activity, but for criminal activity of any sort, by people associated with a political party," the prime minister said.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/northernirelandassembly/story/0,9061,1384537,00.html

[MaineDem]

1. Give Ireland back to the Irish...

That's all I'll say right now.

[Bono71]

2. The Republic doesn't want the North---it is too poor and would

be a burden on the economy, not to mention the North is primarily PROTESTANT.

[jman0]

3. only just n/t

[Wat_Tyler]

7. Are you saying the Republic is a theocracy?

There's plenty of Protestants in the Republic, and the right of religious freedom is well protected.

Incidentally - you've gotten your facts wrong - check out the 2001 figures.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/ni/religion.htm

[Bono71]

13. I don't think these stats reflect differently from what I posted. n/t

[Wat_Tyler]

16. I believe they do.

Take a closer look. There is no Protestant Majority in the North. To call the North Protestant is to take a sectarian standpoint. The North is mixed.

[Bono71]

17. Agree with that...my point was though, that a majority of

people in NI don't want tou become part of the Republic, and vice versa.

[Wat_Tyler]

19. Yeah, but my point was that you said the North was 'primarily Protestant'

Which it isn't - that plays into the secterain game.

[Bono71]

21. Not trying to play games...

but the bottom line is, a majority of the North doesn't want to leave the UK and a majority of the Republic doesn't want the North because it would be a drain on the economy...

forget all mention of religion.

For what its worth, paramilitaries from both sides are wacko, in my opinion.

[Wat_Tyler]

25. I haven't seen an opinion poll on the subject for a few years.

Any recent ones?

[Bono71]

27. Not since 2002-03...right around the power-sharing arrangement n/t

1

[sherilocks]

24. I just checked the website that you listed

43% of the population of Northern Ireland is Catholic. 91% of Ireland is Catholic. Not recognizing that Ireland's politics and laws are strongly influenced by the Catholic church is short-sighted.

BTW, I was in a restaurant in London with my one-half Irish-American daughter, whose Irish great great grand-mother was hung by the English. The restaurant was blown up by the IRA shortly after we left. I'm not particularly sympathetic to the IRA cause.

[Wat_Tyler]

28. Not sure why you're taking this passive-agressive stance with me.

If we want to play Irish Heritage Trump Cards - my mother's Irish and my Great-Grandfather was shot by the Black and Tans. How does that help anything? I was in the WTC in 1992. Terrorists destroyed in nine years later. What a lucky escape I had.

[sherilocks]

36. That was irony

not passive-agressive. I wasn't discussing my heritage, but my daughter's and the fact that the IRA narrowly missed blowing her up. It was a comment preceded with BTW, meaning not the thrust of my discussion, just explaining that I have a personal bias against the IRA.

[Wat_Tyler]

39. And what angered me was that you implied that I support the IRA.

See?

[sherilocks]

41. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that

but I could see where you might interpret it that way.

I do believe that the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to remain part of the UK. My evidence is anecdotal, from correspondence with people in NI, so don't ask for a link. I think that the percentages, however, prove my premise.

<snip>

In a survey carried out in 1995 by the Northern Ireland Social Attitudes Survey, 90 per cent of Protestants opted to remain part of the UK, compared to just 24 per cent of Catholics, while 60 per cent of Catholics were in favour of the reunification of Ireland.

<snip>

[Wat_Tyler]

43. Thanks. Do you have the figures for Ulster as a whole?

It seems to me that you have two groups of about 40% of the population each plus the 20% who aren't Protestant or Catholic, so it would be good to see what the larger picture is, pollwise.

[bobbyboucher]

44. OOOOh Boy, that's a whopper.

Who are you speaking for now?

[Bono71]

50. Ever been there? Ever seen the polls on the subject? n/t

[ally_sc]

46. they have been at odds for hundreds and hundreds of years my friends...

and it seems like it is never going to end. i am going to post this news on another board. i love ireland and i wish mother land could be at peace...

[Jack_DeLeon]

34. I agree with you.

[emad]

4. See NI chief constable on £22 million bank heist story:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1126357

[bin.dare]

5. mass murderer Blair gives warning on criminal activity ...

... fuck the shite.

and people in the UK still listen to him? jeez.

This is just one more effort to derail/stall the inevitability of the peace process.

[Bridget Burke]

6. Evidence? Who needs evidence?

There's speculation aplenty. But, little Tony didn't need any evidence of WMD in Iraq when he committed to help his Master. (How many soldiers from the UK have died so far?)

Little Tony is really tough. Arf Arf!

[Oldpals]

8. Republic of Ireland too poor?

Whomever believes that does not know much about Ireland. The country has been economically running on a surplus since the mid '90's. The Celtic tiger was a boom to that country.

It is the Falwell, Robertson type bigots that the south does not want.The North has an abundance of them notably Ian Paisley. If you want to hear true bigotry listen to the a Paisley speech or one from the DUP.

Another issue that the MSM has always ignored is the Protestant paramilitaries such as the UFF and UDA. Ask 90% of the population of America about terrorists in Northern Ireland and they will say the IRA. Ask them about the loyalist/Unionist groups and they have no clue. Yet everyone has an opinion. Sad.

[Donkeyboy75]

9. Both radical fringes of this conflict suck,

and that's the truth.

[Bridget Burke]

10. Yes, but according to Tony....

There's only one radical fringe.

Rev. Paisley is in with the Bob Jones University crowd, so criticizing him would anger some of Bush's strongest supporters.

[Donkeyboy75]

11. I think that's a bit of a stretch.

Most of the Bob Jones crowd don't give a shit about the world outside their borders.

[Bridget Burke]

15. Yes, just a bit...but Bob Jones IV did attend the opening of ...

The European Institute of Protestant Studies (EIPS) ... housed on the first floor of the Paisley Jubilee Complex of Martyrs' Memorial Free Presbyterian Church on the Ravenhill Road in Belfast, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom.



The Institute will provide correspondence courses designed to conform with its major aims, which are to expound the doctrines of the Bible, promote and defend Biblical Protestantism in Europe and further afield, expose the errors of Romanism, unmask the Papacy, and convert Roman Catholics to Christ.

www.ianpaisley.org/about.asp

What a lovely building!

[bin.dare]

31. some of the courses offered at EIPS are ...

False Doctrines of Roman Catholicism
an analysis of the major doctrinal errors of the Roman Church, their history and implementation, from purgatory to infallibility, from mariolatry to justification, and their refutation in the light of Scripture);

The Church of Rome and Politics
(an exposure of the Vatican conspiracy to overthrow civil government from the twelfth century to the present, with particular emphasis on the history of Papal assaults against Britain and Rome's contemporary involvement in the European Union.

[LisaM]

45. LOLOL how funny

convert Roman Catholics to "CHRIST?" Geesh, they sound like the fricking Baptists from my home town.

Hilarious comment about the building. It looks like a weapons arsenal.

[MaineDem]

12. I think the poster meant Ulster was too poor

I could be wrong but that's how I took it.

[MisterP]

14. "the Belfast air was quiet that night, the fog rolling slowly from

Ireland to Man to Wales, turning to pearl under the moon. Under the stars and the still black sky, a tinny yapping disturbed the peace: 'There can be absolutely no place for violence and criminality.' The lapdog's arfing subsided after a while, even after it had gone on heedless of the fact that no-one listened."

[dbt]

18. IRA Trembles In Fear At Blair Warning.

Pisses pants laughing.

:freak:
dbt

[seemslikeadream]

20. Why can't people just move on dbt?

I can't believe the news today
Oh, I can't close my eyes
And make it go away
How long?
How long must we sing this song?
How long? How long?
'Cause tonight, we can be as one
Tonight
Broken bottles under children's feet
Bodies strewn across the dead end street
But I won't heed the battle call
It puts my back up
Puts my back up against the wall

Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday

And the battle's just begun
There's many lost, but tell me who has won
The trench is dug within our hearts
And mothers, children, brothers, sisters
Torn apart

Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday

How long?
How long must we sing this song?
How long? How long?
'Cause tonight, we can be as one
Tonight, tonight

Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday

Wipe the tears from your eyes
Wipe your tears away
Oh, wipe your tears away
Oh, wipe your tears away
...Sunday, Bloody Sunday...
Oh, wipe your blood shot eyes
...Sunday, Bloody Sunday...
Sunday, Bloody Sunday...Sunday, Bloody Sunday...
Sunday, Bloody Sunday...Sunday, Bloody Sunday...

And it's true we are immune
When fact is fiction and TV reality
And today the millions cry
We eat and drink while tomorrow they die

...Sunday, Bloody Sunday...

The real battle just begun
To claim the victory Jesus won
On...

Sunday, Bloody Sunday

U2

[Xithras]

22. My grandfather was a big IRA supporter

He grew up hearing accounts from his own mother of the backlash and unionist oppression following the Easter Uprising, and always held a pointed hatred of the British as a result. His hatred was apparently honed by his stay in Britain in WWII prior to the Normandy invasion when he was repeatedly discriminated against by Britons because of his obviously Irish appearance and his slight Irish inflection. A successful restaraunteur (owned 17 through California, Arizona, and Oregon), he donated nearly a million dollars to the IRA and various other Irish nationalist organizations between the 1940's and the 1990's. Those donations only stopped when he was declared mentally unfit and my uncle gained power of attorney over his wealth.

I heard many lectures from him about "supporting my Irish cousins" and "freeing my ancestral homeland", and can assure you that the hatred the hardcore IRA supporters feel for the British rivals the Southern KKK in ferocity and intensity. I remember him being absolutely GLEEFUL when I was a kid and a TV report would come on about another IRA bomb blast killing civilians. To him, it was all fair game.

If there is one good point to the Patriot Act, it's that those types of donations couldn't happen today. Back then there was nothing in place to stop people from supporting terrorism, so tens of thousands of Irish Americans sent money to Ireland to support the "liberation". Today that type of donation would be a federal offense, and would land the donor in prison within days of writing the check.

[Bono71]

23. Interesting story. My wife's side has faimly over there who

are protestant. I have no idea if they discriminate against/ dislike Catholics but I know paramilitaries exist on both sides.

I never heard them say anything bad about Catholics, but then, I am, so who knows.

[seemslikeadream]

26. Unless you were Jonathan Bush and had your own bank to use

Dudley Elected Chairman of Riggs Investment Management Subsidiary; Bush to Serve as President & CEO

Washington, D.C., May 31, 2000 - Riggs Bank N.A. today announced that the Board of Directors of RIMCO, a wholly owned investment management subsidiary, has elected Jonathan J. Bush President & Chief Executive Officer and a Director, replacing Philip Tasho who resigned. In addition, Henry A. Dudley, Jr. was elected Chairman.

Mr. Bush will continue as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of J. Bush & Co., an investment management company he founded in 1970, which Riggs acquired in 1997. Mr. Dudley, a 24-year veteran of Riggs, will continue to be responsible for all of Riggs Bank's investment management, trust and private banking business.

Located in the nation's capital, Riggs Bank has 53 branches in the Washington, DC metropolitan area, as well as banking offices in Miami, London and Berlin.
http://www.riggsbank.com/Discover_Riggs/may31_00.html


9/11 relatives sue bank in terror attacks

Islander joins action accusing Washington's Riggs National Bank of aiding al-Qaida backers
Tuesday, September 14, 2004
By TERENCE J. KIVLAN

WASHINGTON -- Lawyers for Sept. 11 families suing the Saudis have filed a related class-action legal action accusing a major bank here of aiding financial backers of the al-Qaida terrorist group through negligence.

The bank, Riggs National Bank, was fined $25 million in May for failing to properly monitor millions of dollars in Saudi financial transactions, including withdrawals now being investigated for possible connections to terrorism.

The suit charged that Riggs officials "impeded the battle against terrorism and substantially contributed to the terrorists being permitted to evade detection."

Riggs has been under investigation since regulators reportedly traced the "charitable contributions" to the hijackers two years ago. Since then investigators have discovered tens of millions of dollars in questionable transactions at Riggs by Saudi diplomats.

more
http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?/base/news/1095169722130960.xml

[nickine9]

33. but i think you could still donate to the ira...

not that i'd want to, but i dont think the IRA or "provos" are on the patriot act list . The " real IRA" are on the list but they are a splinter group

[ThorsHammer]

37. Isn't Sinn Fein used as their political (peaceful) wing now?

[nickine9]

42. yes thats one of the reasons

why the peace process is so fraught, some unionists still view some of sinn fein as the IRA. there are many other reasons of course, blinkered intransigence on both sides being another

[ally_sc]

49. yes..jerry adams negotiates with

the brits and periodically will make statements. haven't heard anything about the bank robbery as far as statements from sinn fein...some police agency raided some IRA suspects homes i believe right before christmas.
the brits were trying to get IRA to disarm, but they stalled again because the brits wanted it photographed. that's all i know.

[bin.dare]

51. I posted on another thread ... (i hope it helps)

Adams rejects claim IRA was involved in £22m heist

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2005/0106/breaking21.htm

...
No arrests have been made and none of the missing cash recovered but police believe republicans were involved. The police chief is under pressure to track down the gang and confirmation that the IRA was connected to the heist will have huge implications for the future of peace process, significantly undermining any chance of restoring the power sharing executive at Stormont.

But Mr Adams moved today to claim accusations of IRA involvement were an attempt by British "securocrats" to undermine talks to restore devolution at Stormont.
...
The Sinn Fein leader said: "It is obvious that the series of raids, house searches and confiscation of property directed at republican activists that have taken place in recent weeks have had nothing to do with tracking down those responsible for the bank robbery.

"Instead this has been a contrivance aimed at pointing the finger of guilt at republicans, even in the absence of any evidence."
Mr Adams added: "No one should doubt the significant damage done to all of this by these raids, by the conduct of the PSNI and by the political opportunism of some."
...

[Massachusetts]

29. Be careful Tony

Or they might be wipin yer arss up off of Downing Street.

[eric144]

30. Complicated

I live in Scotland. about 100 miles from Belfast, in Glasgow which has an identical sectarian divide.

The war started when a march (this is what the U2 song was about)of civil rights protestors very much following the peaceful example of Martin Luther King was gunned down by the British army in Londonderry. Thirteen people were killed that day.

This gave rise to strong Catholic support for the provisional IRA, the protestant communities created their own paramilitary groups (UDA UVF)around the same time.

A couple of things - one day the time of the Drumcree march in 2000, protestant paramilitaries took over Northern Ireeland by blocking all the roads - in essence a military takeover and the British army did nothing. President Clinton did nothing, the fix was in - Sean Feinn had been led up the garden path. They failed to learn lesson one in diplomacy - never trust the English !!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/827560.stm

Secondly, both sides it seems to me were basically run and played against each other by British intelligence (MI5 and others). This is the British way. Two of the most senior members of the IRA were British agents, one a serving soldier FOR 30 YEARS. It is likely that the leadership of Sein Fein were completely compromised which is reflected in their 100% commitment to the peace process.

I used to hate Ian Paisley, but am now of the opinion, he was the only honest one of all the politicians.

The situation today is that Northern Ireland will stay in British hands in perpetuity.


Here are a series of links (from British newspapers)if anyone is interested that show British intelligence was deeply involved in the biggest atrocity of the war, Omagh.

British double-agent was in Real IRA's Omagh bomb team
http://www.sundayherald.com/print17827

Northern Ireland: Allegations of British collusion in Omagh bombing
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/sep2001/ire-a04_prn.shtml

Ulster spies to 'blow MI5 cover'
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/northernirelandassembly/story/0,9061,750426,00.html

An insider to probe an inside job
http://www.irlnet.com/aprn/archive/2002/March28/28cast.html

[Wat_Tyler]

32. Identical, but on a much smaller scale.

I only ever noticed it at football matches or during marching season, or maybe at 3am on Sauchiehall Street when some raving drunk went on about it.

Still, nice to see a Glasweigan on the board.

[eric144]

35. Not that much smaller

Most of the guns that went to protestant paramilitaries came from Glasgow/Paisly/ Ayrshire. I even had a connection (friend's relative) from Kilwinning who got twenty years back in the seventies. I genuinely believed that if John Major had sparked a war in NI, it would have spread to the west of Scotland in some way or other.

In my father's day, you couldn't get a job in a lot of places if you were a catholic, sectarian hatred was really deep. I grew up with the whole thing, the venom at Rangers or Celtic games during the troubles was incredible. In Belfast, the protestant gangs were called the tartan gangs. Large numbers of supporters still come across from NI every weekend to Glasgow for the football.

No one was shot in Glasgow for being the wrong religion, but quite a few have been stabbed and killed. It's the same divide which in my opinion is racial - protestant Scots vs catholic Irish.

Do you live in Glasgow yourself ??

cheers

Eric

[Wat_Tyler]

40. Did do - for about five years in the mid-90's.

Of course, there was that kid who was basically burned at the stake for wearing a Celtic strip, so it did happen - but obviously that was a pretty rare incident.
I lived in a few parts of Glasgow, mostly around Hillhead and St George's Cross.

[Bridget Burke]

38. Colonial powers love to divide their "subjects"

Britain (the rulers--nothing against the Brits) encouraged the Orangemen to oppose the Catholics--even though the Dissenters were not as "good" as Church of Ireland members. They didn't want to risk another United Irishmen.

Are the overseers of Iraq truly working toward a peaceful result? Or do they want fighting to continue, to excuse our continuing military presence in the area?

It's an old story.

[daleo]

47. I am issuing a warning to Blair:

Bush has a new puppy, named Miss Beazley.

[ally_sc]

48. obtw where's jerry

nothing further

[ashmanonar]

52. is it just me, or is the us playing into

this sectarian stuff too? how far are we from bombings of churches, and random murders in the streets of a town that is either atheist or muslim? except the RR is capable of stuff that would make the IRA look like a clown college...

[dflprincess]

53. Blair's in political trouble so it's time to play his personal terrorism

card. Blame the Irish for anything that goes wrong.

[goforit]

54. Hmmm........Let's start with you Mr. Blair....Remember Dr. Kelly?

[Deja Q]

55. And when * won't help Blair in that fight, Blair will see that his gambit

was a total failure.

[Cheswick2.0]

56. are they going to bomb and invade Ireland?

Screw Blair