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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-05 07:24 AM
Original message
Show us proof on rebels, Venezuela tells Colombia
Show us proof on rebels, Venezuela tells Colombia
17 Jan 2005 22:47:19 GMT

Source: Reuters

By Patrick Markey

CARACAS, Venezuela, Jan 17 (Reuters) - Venezuela challenged Colombia on Monday to back up its charge Caracas sheltered a top Colombian rebel before his arrest last month, which triggered the worst dispute in years between the Andean neighbors.
Venezuela says Rodrigo Granda, a leader of Colombia's Marxist FARC rebels, was illegally kidnapped from Caracas in December by Venezuelan soldiers paid by Colombian police.
(snip)

"Let them show the evidence, present it to us," Information Minister Andres Izarra told reporters. "There is no real evidence Colombian irregulars receive any protection or shelter from the Venezuelan government."

Izarra said sanctions announced by Chavez on Friday did not affect normal trade. But they suspended deals signed at a November bilateral meeting, including an accord to build a cross-border gas pipeline. The border remained open, he said.
Venezuela is the world's No. 5 oil exporter and a major oil supplier to the United States. The dispute over Granda pits the leftist Chavez, a fierce critic of the United States, against Uribe, a conservative and close Washington ally.

Uribe has offered to meet with his Venezuelan counterpart to solve the dispute.
(snip/...)

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N17214434.htm
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pescao Donating Member (716 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-05 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. in today's morning star (UK)
Venezuela: FARC "Foreign Minister" Kidnapped in Caracas Leads to Crisis with Colombia

The kidnapping of Colombian guerrilla FARC's "foreign minister" last month, outside a Caracas cafe in broad daylight, allegedly by bribed members of the Venezuelan army's elite counter-kidnapping division, has sparked a crisis that threatens to further polarise the people of both countries, especially regarding public opinion of their Presidents. On Thursday, Hugo Chavez recalled his Ambassador in Bogota, which was followed by Friday's announcement of a trade freeze until Alvaro Uribe publicly apologised. Although this doesn't seem likely (in fact the Colombian government has responded by repeating this was standard operating procedure for them and they would do it again) the fact is that Colombia needs Venezuela's trade a lot more than Venezuela needs Colombia's, with over $2-billion flowing between the two last year, much of it fuelled by Venezuelan oil. If this was a poker game, Chavez would have a high stack of chips backing up some pretty strong cards. On the other hand, Uribe would be dealing from a marked deck with a US-made cannon under the table.

Rodrigo Granda was abducted in the Venezuelan capital on December 13th while receiving a mobile phone call, and smuggled to the Colombian border town of Cucuta where he was officially arrested. He had been present at the "World Forum of Intellectuals and Artists in Defense of Humanity" in Caracas the previous week, along with over six hundred delegates from Venezuela and around the world, although both the government and organisers say they didn't invite him. The Colombian government at first denied that Granda had been apprehended in Caracas, and have insisted throughout that in no way have they violated Venezuelan sovereignty. The Venezuelan government were initially quiet on the matter, and it wasn't until Noam Chomsky and others sent Chavez an open letter asking him to investigate involvement by members of the political police, DISIP, that they admitted rogue security officials were believed to be behind the kidnapping. A couple of days later, on his re-launched new-look Sunday talk-show, Alo Presidente, Chavez accused the Colombian police of lying when they said Granda had been captured in Cucuta. On Wednesday the Colombian government admitted they had paid for Granda's abduction and had specifically sought out bounty-hunters, thus they claim never violating Venezuelan territory with their state security forces. (They didn't mention the four Colombian security officials who were temporarily detained in early December for allegedly taking photos of military buildings in the city of Maracay, only one hour from Caracas.) Venezuela responded the next day by recalling its Ambassador. It is still not clear whether the trade freeze applies to all business between the two countries or just government contracts, such as the giant gas and oil pipeline deal, which both buys a bit of regional peace and opens up delivery to Venezuela's newest energy customer, China.

Chavez' confidence comes from the fact that there's no doubt this was a scandalous act by Uribe, and even the middle-class opposition anti-Bolivarians in Venezuela realise this. They consider suspending trade a massive over-reaction, but they see Chavez as having to do something in order to show the FARC he's on their side. It goes without saying that they are convinced these Colombian "narco-guerrilla" are arm-in-arm with Chavez (an image the FARC, who indeed describe themselves as Bolivarian, don't exactly go out of their way to dispel). They claim to have evidence that Granda illegally gained Venezuelan citizenship, which the government says is fraudulent. This latest claim doesn't seem to have been picked up by the international media yet but they are reporting that a militant Bolivarian party from Maracaibo, the oil capital near the border, accused the CIA of being behind the abduction and then promptly had their headquarters searched by Venezuelan police. Maracaibo is in one of only two states still with an opposition governor after October's local elections.

To put this in context, much of the middle-class here do believe some rather odd stuff; for example, many still maintain that the coup of 2002 simply did not happen. Rather, there had been a "constitutional crisis" whereby Chavez resigned leaving a "power vacuum", which for some reason Pedro Carmona, head-honcho of "civil society" (who in their opinion went a bit over the top during his brief dictatorship, dissolving the National Assembly and tearing up the Constitution - not that they complained at the time) filled out of public duty. (Why the Vice-President didn't assume command I've yet to find out.) They also maintain that the referendum of August 2004 was fraudulent, and in fact +they+ won with 60% of the vote. I'll admit it's difficult to know what to say to that. Mention the Carter Center or the OAS - well, they're just Chavez stooges. As for why Washington (grudgingly) accepted the results, the answer is they need the oil, and therefore stability in Venezuela. Luckily the anti-Bolivarians have largely given up trying to tear up the Constitution again and there doesn't seem to be any appetite for next year's general election fight. Their favourite slogan is, "If you don't like it, move to Miami!" (This is said in response to almost any complaint.)

...

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/01/303904.html (scroll down for corrected version)
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-05 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Great bit of news, and thank you! It's information we're just not getting!
From the link:]FARC are only classified as "terrorists" by Colombia and the US, not by the UN. Also there was no warrant out for Granda's arrest, which Interpol confirmed to Chavez, until January 9th, almost a month after Colombia had him in captivity. Chavez responded to Uribe's statement a few hours later with a great line: What would be the reaction to his bribing of Colombian commandos into kidnapping Pedro Carmona (currently claiming asylum in Colombia, having fled from house-arrest following the coup to the Colombian Embassy and then given safe-passage by Chavez out of the country) and smuggling him into Venezuela where he's wanted for a quite clear-cut case of treason?

Then Saturday the US weighed in, with their Ambassador in Bogota backing Uribe's 9-point brief "100%". It's difficult not to imagine them having a little chuckle over all this as the pipeline plan was certainly not in Washington's interests. Uribe requested a regional summit at the Presidential level, but Chavez instead has insisted on an exclusive bilateral between the two of them in Venezuela. The bottom line is the Colombian government must apologise, not just to Chavez but to all the Venezuelan people. No matter who you're after, it is intolerable to hire mercenaries (almost certainly active state security officials, though Uribe won't say who he paid) in order to extra-judicially abduct someone and smuggle them out of the country. That's the reason we have international law, diplomatic norms, extradition processes, things like that. Screw Lord Spam's squealing about squatters farming "his" fertile pastures, I wonder what the UN, Human Rights Watch or even the UK government will have to say about Colombia's clearly provocative violation of Venezuelan sovereignty? As Chávez said just a few days ago, "you can't fight crime with more crime." It's startling that the "opposition" class won't admit there was an actual coup, and insist Hugo Chavez actually resigned! Why did he return? As your article points out, why did not the Vice President, then, step forward? There is NO WAY semi-rational people could promote this trash.

Looks like they'll only snap out of it as "sadder but wiser" idiots.

Thanks, again for this news, necessary to us who see Bush as someone with plans for Latin America. (You only have to check the list of warped, twisted, right-wing, extreme violence-favoring people who've been involved in horrendous "human rights abuses" (mind boggling mass murders) in Latin America he has placed in his administration to know what's on his mind.)
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radric Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. FARC..
"FARC are only classified as "terrorists" by Colombia and the US, not by the UN."

And also by the European Union.
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pescao Donating Member (716 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. i read that today
do you know how long for? the point is, if uribe is going to quote the UN as his guide for fighting terror, stating that no country can harbour terrorists, then chavez has the right to take the UN classification of the FARC not being a terrorist organisation. and as i understand it, granda's only wanted by colombia for being the group's spokesman, not for any actual criminal offences, but i'm not sure. i also heard that interpol had refused to issue an arrent warrent because he's only wanted for "rebellion" and that's a non-extriditable offence, apparently.
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radric Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Since 2002 and maybe earlier from the search...
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pescao Donating Member (716 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. ok, but the EU position isn't relevant to chavez
Colombia and the US call FARC terrorists, Venezuela and the UN don´t, they regard the conflict as a civil war. if uribe starts quoting the UN to say states cant harbour terrorists, and the US backs him up, then chavez can say they that as neither the UN nor Venezuela regard FARC as terrorists then this point is completely irrelevant regarding a FARC leader in Venezuela, no matter what Colombia, the US or the EU have to say on the matter. if you're going to use the UN to support your argument then at least you should check if they agree with you.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yes, Great info here, thanx all
Bigger Doin´s in the Bolivarian Republic

As I warned back in August, the dance with the devil is a
tricky one at best, and it's very easy to get burned.
President (Yes, President, not "Mr." or "leftist firebrand")
Chavez risked much by signing oil and gas accords with
the Narcostate. This is a difficult time to take a stand
against Uribe's impunity, and I commend the decision of
the Venezuelan republic to not take this sitting down. At this
time, Uribe is refusing to take responsibility for the act of
violating Venezuela's sovereignty by paying for a
mercenary kidnapping.

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2005/1/15/155035/386

In light of Candi's hearing today-

ZNet by Toni Solo argues: “It is reasonable to suggest that
when George Bush named
Condoleeza Rice as his next Secretary of State, he signalled
the all clear for an escalation in covert action against
opponents of US policy in Latin America. Danilo Anderson
was the first victim of that escalation…”

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/609/609p24.htm
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thanks for posting these articles. Never heard the term "Narcosphere."
It's entirely appropriate.

The second article was worth pondering. A number of D.U.'ers were wondering how many people were connected to the assassination of that prosecutor. Damned shame, and no surprise at all, considering the true criminals within the "opposition" and its supporters outside Venezuela.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. And I'm amazed that the investigation has not only continued
Edited on Wed Jan-19-05 09:44 AM by jmcgowanjm
but increased in intensity

From what I have read it goes all the way to Sumate(NED/CIA)
and the Guv of Maracaibo-a vicious opponent
of Chavez.-I don't have a link for this
offhand.

Chavez accuses CIA as bombings rock Venezuela

Two fuel tankers exploded late Sunday at the capital's
municipal airport, 36 hours after the presidential guard
barracks and the national telecommunications offices
were bombed

This happened right after Chavez (092004)canceled his UN
flight because he thought the US would shoot his plane
down.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2003/10/08/2003070877


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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-05 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. Bogotá is reported to have paid US$ 350,000 for Granda's abduction
Caracas, Wednesday January 19 , 2005

Bogotá is reported to have paid US$ 350,000 for Granda's abduction

Colombia paid US$ 350,000 for the abduction of the so-called "chancellor" of the Colombian Revolutionary Armed Forces (FARC) Rodrigo Granda, reported Wednesday the Colombian W Radio station as quoted by news agency EFE.

W Radio reported that the bounty amount appears in the "intelligence report" of the Colombian authorities related to the rebel's case, whose abduction in Caracas brought about an impasse in the Venezuela-Colombia relations.
(snip/)

http://www.eluniversal.com/2005/01/19/en_pol_art_19A524737.shtml

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


Don't know how much credibility this news can have, as it's offered by a Venezuelan right-wing "opposition" publication. Thatsa lotta money to do something absolutely wrong in order to create a break in what was becoming a closer working relationship between Venezuela and Colombia.

I think they should look a little farther north for the "genius" behind this scheme.
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