Rumsfeld Debating Whether to Avoid Germany(may be arrested for war-crimes)

[truthpusher]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=7533075



Rumsfeld Debating Whether to Avoid Germany
Thu Feb 3, 2005 06:06 PM ET

By Charles Aldinger
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Thursday he has not decided whether to attend an international security conference next week in Germany, where he might be subject to arrest on a war-crimes complaint.

"I have not made a final decision on that (attendance). And there are several factors," Rumsfeld told reporters when asked if he would go to the prestigious annual private Munich Conference on Security Policy Feb. 12-13 when he is in Europe next week.

He conceded in response to questions at a press conference that one problem was the jurisdiction of a German court over a 160-page criminal complaint filed Nov. 30 with the federal prosecutor's office in Germany accusing him of war crimes in connection with detainee abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

That complaint was brought by the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), a group of lawyers representing Iraqis who say they were mistreated by U.S. forces at the Baghdad prison.

story>>>> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=7533075

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. the irony

Germany arresting ppl for war crimes

[tuvor]

2. Maybe because they remember the past and aren't condemned to repeat it.

[7th_Sephiroth]

6. actually, germany ignores WW2 as much as possible

banning the swastika in any form, and just leaving out ww2 in textbooks

[tuvor]

10. The swastika's been around forever.

Yikes, what do Hindus and others with legitimate claim to the swastika do in Germany about a ban on a symbol they've had for ages?

[7th_Sephiroth]

13. they get arrested

and yes the swastika appears just about everywhere, in the hundu and buddahist religions, the swastika pointed one way means life and hitlers way to mean death

[mordarlar]

81. The Hopi used a reverse swastika also. To them it represents dispersion.

LOL just learned this yesterday. : )

[jdj]

76. suck it up, I guess.

one would hope.

[Karenina]

37. Germany is the ONLY country

the ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that has taken full responsibility for the atrocities in its history. How do YOU know what's in a German textbook? That assertion is ABSURD in the extreme. Schoolchildren are bussed to the death camps and educated about the horror, lest the memory fade. There are bronze plaques in the sidewalks in front of apartment buildings to commemorate those taken from them, deported and murdered.

"The WAR" is a frequent topic of discussion PARTICULARLY now that everyone is !!!flipped out!!! in disbelief watching the speed at which America is running down the same path.

[neweurope]

40. Beat me to it, Karenina :)

--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Horse with no Name]

48. What kind of crap is that?

Teaching schoolchildren about the past misdeeds of their country? What kind of patriotism do you teach in that "furren" kuntry?
Why here in the good ole U-S- of A, if we don't like something, why we change it. Just take it out then teach that it never happened. We call our professors "libruls" and then whine cause these durn ivy league schools are full of em. Well, no matter, we will change that soon. Tenure is just a benefit and we don't believe in anything except money and God. Damn these libruls and their social contracts.
We don't like books? We burn em. Edumacation--who needs it?(sarcasm off)
Seriously--I had a fundie tell me the other day that slavery never existed--that it was just liberal propaganda in the history books and thats why they supported books being changed.
Unreal.
I'm truly scared about what is happening in our country and I hope that other countries keep up with our history so that it isn't erased and changed from the planet. Maybe future generations can learn from the mistakes.

[Lizzie Borden]

64. The Soviets used to...

... do a similar thing. Every time they changed history they sent out the "new, correct" pages of the little Soviet encyclopedia. You had to paste them over the old "incorrect" pages.

[primavera]

60. Bravo!

I've never seen a country which bent so far over backwards to learn from its mistakes and make amends for them. In contrast, in this country, we delayed ratifying the Convention on Genocide for decades because we were afraid the Native Americans and the African Americans might have a case against us under its provisions. It took Jimmy Carter - god love him - to finally show some spine and get it ratified.

[Karenina]

67. That ignorant post

was the first I read this morning and got me so riled, I had to take a cold shower to cool off. ;-)

The German/American connexion is VERY deep and complex. I once had to call out a well-known author who complained that there were no correlaries, ie Chinatown, Little Italy, in the U.S.

Asshole... nicht nötig as there are ENTIRE REGIONS in a DOZEN states whose names reveal their roots. Dialects are spoken in far-flung areas. There is a REASON that the French rather than the Germans were targetted as the "enemy" although BOTH opposed the invasion of Iraq.

PUHLEEESE, don't get me started, as what Americans learn in their history classes is SO LACKING IN SUBSTANCE. It's a D'ami thing...

[DrWeird]

68. Baloney.

Unlike the U.S. or Japan, Germany is the only WWII major player that acknowledges its atrocities.

[tanyev]

3. Go, Rummy , go!

I hear it's really nice there this time of year.

Auf Wiedersehen!

[AllyCat]

8. I'm with you! Lets see him off at the jetway, shall we?

Gute Reise, Herr Rumsfeld! Auf Wederschauen!

[Blue_State_Elitist]

19. Indeed

Rummy, you have our full support. Go tell those Germans who is boss!

[MADem]

4. Hmmmmmmmm

I am not at all familiar with our agreements with Germany on treatment of those engaged in official state visits. Usually, though, if you are representing a sovereign nation in a friendly nation, there IS no issue. Like it or not. If he's going as a private citizen, say, to drink beer or go skiing, all bets are off.

Anyone here ever work diplomatic accords or SOFA issues in Germany?

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Last time Rummy went to Germany, he tried to visit cousins.

The family told him no thanks.

[cliss]

23. That's right. RumsFailed

is German. There is a village somewhere in Germany full of Rumsfeld's.

Maybe they want him back. I say take him. He's yours.

[MileHiStealth]

33. They've already publicly said ...

they don't want him back, and
he's an embarrassment ...

[Democrat Dragon]

72. and they don't need their village idiot anymore.

[theworldiswatching]

7. Wouldn't that be great!

Wouldn't that be the answer to my prayers!

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

9. Hope they do arrest his arrogant ass-International Law is valid

And somehow these Murkins think they are beyond complying.
It is illegal to invade a counrty unprovoked.
It is illegal to torture prisoners.
It is against international law and I hope they are all held accountable for their actions.
The German War criminals were prosectued (some of them) and the American War criminals should be as well.

[ECH1969]

12. This would give Bush an excuse to invade Germany

Since the act that was passed in 2002 allows him to attack any nation that attempts to try Americans without our consent.

[VegasWolf]

17. bush couldn't take Grenada at this stage, much less germany. n/t

[BeHereNow]

14. Spell Check Night Tripper...

It's 'muriKKKans, not murikans.
Other than that-
I agree completely!
BHN

[NYC]

11. That he even discusses this is wonderful. It has influence.

...He conceded in response to questions at a press conference that one problem was the jurisdiction of a German court over a 160-page criminal complaint filed Nov. 30 with the federal prosecutor's office in Germany accusing him of war crimes in connection with detainee abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq...

[hangemhigh]

15. "Springtime, for Rummy, in Germany." nt

[Sparkly]

46. haHA!!!

Berlin is beautiful this time of year! C'mon, Rummy, GO-- what have you got to lose?

[Lizzie Borden]

65. Good one hangemhigh!

}( }(

[Verve]

16. Rummy please go! Germany please have guts! 49% + will back you. n/t

[BeHereNow]

18. Let's buy him a ticket!

Let's start a fundraiser here to buy
Rummy a ticket to Germany...ONE WAY.
BHN

[Dem2theMax]

32. Where is the donation site? I'm more than ready to give up

my money for food for the month if it will get Rummy to Germany. LOL.

[KansDem]

43. No "one way" ticket!

That'll only bring suspicion to him as a potential terrorist. He would be pulled out of line while waiting to board and searched. His private areas would be probed in full view of the other passengers. He might be stripped to his shorts and undergo a full body-cavity search. He would be subjected to degradation and humiliation



??
:(

On second thought, put me down for a fin!!! }(

[mod mom]

49. Yes buy that (evil) man a one way ticket! nt

[alfredo]

56. Write him and urge him to go. Write your congressman

and urge him to go.

[kineneb]

20. Rummy to Germany, Chaney to France

Rove for a swim with sharks, but where, oh where to send Bush?

[chalky]

28. As long as you don't send him back here to Texas n/m

[exploited]

29. A pilgrimage

Send him off into the desert wilderness that he owns (because he broke it) to commune with his faith in freedom.

He would get to see a burning Bush first hand and become a deborn Christian

[LibDemAlways]

34. I want to see the chimp in Fallujah

without the secret service or any other security. Think he'd enjoy meeting some ordinary Iraqi citizens?

[Horse with no Name]

50. LOL

He won't even meet with ordinary Murikkkan citizens.

[Demeter]

66. To the Dante Travel Agency

Nine Rings in 8 days...what a trip!

[Democrat Dragon]

71. To the sun!

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushsunmission.htm

[stlsaxman]

92. send him to Gitmo, certainly. n/t

[Up2Late]

21. Common' Rummy, What are ya', CHICKEN?

I mean Please. What's a few War Crimes among old allies? :evilgrin:

I mean, has Germany EVER taken War Crimes seriously before?:silly:

Question: Is Germany "Old Europe" or "New Europe?":shrug:

[truthisfreedom]

22. imagine if a Democratic administration had this dilemma.

the outcry would be resonating through the rethug echo chamber day and night.

[LibDemAlways]

35. Tweety would get so worked up with

indignation against the Dems for besmirching the good name of the USA that he'd have an on-air stroke. Hannity and Limpballs would be hoarse from shouting. Enraged repukes would take it to the streets and repuke members of Congress would begin impeachment proceedings against the Dem President who nominated the Defense Sec. citing a "high crime."

[neuvocat]

52. That's the rub though.

Because it wouldn't happen with a dem administration (although generally I do believe that this is rather unprecedented).

[Up2Late]

78. It's Not unprecedented

This is from the 1991 Gulf War:
<http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrim2.htm>

[tsuki]

24. Judgement at Nuremburg, great movie. It would be a great

remake with the judge being German and the defendent US.

[despairing optimist]

31. I was thinking more along the lines of "The Naked Prey"

Release Rummy in the Black Forest and let him be hunted down. No pics, though, please. At least not for mealtime release.

[koopie57]

25. Dear Mr. God-in-Waiting Donald Rumsfeld

It is my humble wish that you attend this conference in Germany. I understand that it might be worrisome that the German government might arrest you for war crimes, but remember, God is on your side. You go and show the heathens how faithful you are. Please go. *giggle*. In all actuality he is stupid enough to fall for something like that.

[lebkuchen]

26. Rummy's desperate. He wrote a letter to Stripes. I'm still laughing

Letters to Stripes have historically been about noisy kids in movie theaters and the color of the army beret. Since Rummy has headed the DoD, Stripes letters has morphed into an emotional outlet for all folks DoD to criticize Rummy. Now he's responding. He didn't have time to sign condolence letters, but he has time to write to Stripes letters to cover his sorry ass.

See first one. But don't miss the third one! :)

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=26944

[Sandpiper]

27. Go for it Rummy! I hear they have great beer!

Though I doubt they'll have much where you'll be going.

[ClayZ]

30. Why can't each state do this too?

Pretty soon we could have them all "rounded up" at the ranch in Texas!

House Airest for the whole bunch of them....


The war on THUGS... JUST SAY NO!

[War Pigs]

36. Take the chimp with you!!

:toast:

[Redstone]

38. Run, Rummy, run...

See Rummy run.

Funny Rummy.

Run, Rummy, run!

Redstone

[Solly Mack]

39. Oh, quit your posturing. We already know you're a chickenshit

[lebkuchen]

41. Did you see this?

It's all out there for the troops to see now. The head of the DoD is potentially a wanted man.

Third one

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=26783

[Solly Mack]

42. Yeah, I read that

he's a typical bully

[lebkuchen]

74. Bully? Maybe. I think he has a short-man's complex.

I wonder what the chances are he shows up to Munich for the conference should the case not be dismissed.

[Swamp Rat]

90. Whoa! n/t

[shadowknows69]

44. Come on Rummy

it's the fatherland after all. You can go wax nostalgic at the very places your heroes committed the acts that inspire people like you and our new homeland gestapo leader herr gonzalich.

[LeftHander]

45. Great...Our Government officials can't do thier job....

because they are wanted criminals...

sheesh....

[mod mom]

53. I'd rather this regime not do what they think is their job! nt

[Earth_First]

47. If you aren't a war criminal...what's to worry...GO!

Oh, you ARE a war criminal.

[truthpusher]

54. He knows.

[Massachusetts]

51. Rummy you chickenhawk you!

[cloud75]

55. it's sad that story is out there there...

just the fact that he is being accused and 59-million people still voted for shrub...what a matter with our country.

[Undercover Owl]

58. Nobody has heard this story!

Maybe 2% of Americans have heard this news item.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

57. Kick. This may be part of why Ward Churchill is getting death threats..n/t

[lovuian]

59. He better be careful!!!

That he is nervous makes me feel good!!!

[CountAllVotes]

61. hide war criminal hide hide hide

Shame shame shame on you Rummy! You can run but you cannot hide!



:kick:

[Democrat Dragon]

69. You beat me to it!

It seema that Generalfeldmarschall Maximilian Freiherr von Weichs escaped from the Nuremberg trails.

BTW what is Scummy's signature doing on the photo? Was that from a freeper who wnated his autograph?

[Up2Late]

79. That IS spooky

[truth2power]

62. Go Rummy! Do it! Hope they arrest your ass!! eom

[d_b]

63. Go, Rummy. Don't be a wuss!

[leesa]

70. Pleeeze go scumbag....would love to see you in shackles

Perhaps they could try out your protocol for prisoner torture to find out about the rest of the scum in this administration.

Maybe if they wired his testicles we would find out where the 3 trillion dollars the DOD "lost" went to.

[Oilwellian]

73. Please note the vein popping out of his forehead

Guess things are a little tense for Rummy. It serves the fascist war profiteer right.

[Big_Mike]

75. I have a question

When Arafat came to America the first time to address the United Nations, wasn't he under indictment for the 8 or so Airliners that were blown up in the 70s? I know he was accorded diplomatic priviliges for his visit. Under the diplomatic rules, all you can do is Personal Non Grata him (or her) and get them out of the country, but you cannot prosecute. How does their law change this?

[Carl Brennan]

77. Look at his eyes! It is fear.

This is very big IMO. These bastards are starting to check their movements out of fear of foreign criminal courts. What happens when a few more countries start filing charges?

Can you imagine the headlines if one of them is arrested and put behind bars.

[earth mom]

89. OMG-I noticed the fear in Rummys eyes first thing too!

And for a split second I felt sorry for him-but then remembered his evil deeds and quickly came to my senses! :evilgrin:

[ultraist]

80. This must be a first...

That one of our top level government officials cannot visit a country that is ally for fear of being arrested. UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE.

This is major, our SOD is WANTED for war crimes. And people are upset that we compare Bush to Hitler? OMG!

HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED?

[Robbien]

82. Germany has just added Gonzales to the list of defendents

in this suit. Good way to keep the King of Torture out of their country.

[ultraist]

84. FOR REAL? gotta link?

Do people SEE what's happening here? Are we the only ones?

[Robbien]

85. Sure

GONZALES ADDED TO WAR CRIMES COMPLAINT IN GERMANY; NEW EVIDENCE SHOWS FAY REPORT ON ABU GHRAIB PROTECTED OFFICIALS

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m9392&l=i&size=1&hd=0

I see this also briefly mentioned buried in a few US articles.

[ultraist]

86. OMG! LOOK at the picture. THE WORLD HATES US

Our leaders look as bad as HITLER!!! We are going to get slammed with a terrorist attack thanks to Bush et al THOSE BASTARDS! How did things get so out of control?

[Robbien]

87. While our media played the coronation of Bush 24/7, the rest of the

world was glued to the trials of the Brits who were charged with torture in Iraq. Huge numbers of torture pictures played 24/7 on their newsreels with only a passing mention of the coronation.

We here do not even know the half of it. The testimony of a women prisoner took days with all the gory details in the international press.

[ultraist]

88. And our corporate MSM doesn't EVEN MENTION THAT!

DO THEY? This is getting really frightening.

[lebkuchen]

91. Is there a link to her testimony?

I'd like to read it.

[opihimoimoi]

83. Wussy Rummy ain't got balls to go there....