Government May Close Some Airport Towers

[Kadie]

Government May Close Some Airport Towers
By LESLIE MILLER, Associated Press Writer

Wednesday, February 16, 2005


(02-16) 15:49 PST WASHINGTON, (AP) --


Control towers at some airports could go dark between midnight and 5 a.m. under a cost-cutting plan the government is considering.


The air traffic controllers' union says the move would compromise safety. Lawmakers worry it could lead to service reductions in their states.


Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, said Wednesday that if the Federal Aviation Administration closes the tower in Fairbanks, Alaska, during the early morning hours, it "would be the most stupid suggestion I've ever heard from the bureaucracy."


With three Texas airports on the list, "closing towers at cities with military bases at a time of war is wrong," said Chris Paulitz, spokeswoman for Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas.

more...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/02/16/national/w153433S94.DTL

[phusion]

2. What the hell?

What if some plane has to make an emergency landing at one of these airports?

"Uhh, Albuquerque, we're gonna need to make an emergency landing. Can we gain clearance to land, over?"

--silence--

"Uhh, Albuquerque? Hello?"

"Uhh...Anyone home? And who shut out the lights on the runway? Shit."

Idiots...

[durablend]

3. Hey quit complaining!

At least those disgusting gay people can't get married!

Get your priorities straight!

[Sgent]

4. Towers are Pork

In small airports. They serve no real purpose.

Airport towers only deal with airplanes on the ground, taking off, and landing -- once they take off (even 500 feet) they are transfered to an ATC.

Although very important in certain circumstances, thousands of small airports around the US don't have towers -- many with commercial traffic. The pilots all have a universal radio frequency where they plan out order of takeoff/landing, and taxing needs. In smaller airports, it is entirely possible a live tower is not needed during slow hours.

[mhr]

6. If A Tower Is Not Operating - Pilots Announce Their Intentions Via UNICOM

This is done all the time at smaller airports.

"Albuquerque Traffic - Cessna 29F is downwind for 12 - Any traffic please advise" etc.

It does not prevent a significant problem.

Most airports are pretty quiet at night compared to day and evening operations.

[burrowowl]

27. ABQ is

coupled to Kirkland AFB, I don't think it will go dark. And the ATC here is or was busier than O'Hare given all the military traffic.
By the way ABQ Airport is at a higher elevation than Denver's. So much for the movie where the plane had to land at Denver.

[rox63]

5. Guess I won't be taking the redeye any time soon n/t

[MichiganVote]

7. Any chance they'll vote to close Congress instead?

Worthless government

[Moderator]

8. Kicked to combine duplicate threads N/T

[question everything]

9. Air-traffic towers may be going dark

Long Beach Press Telegram

Air-traffic towers may be going dark

Gov't suggestion criticized as unsafe, 'stupid.'
By Leslie Miller
Associated Press

WASHINGTON — Control towers at some airports could go dark between midnight and 5 a.m. under a cost-cutting plan the government is considering.

The air traffic controllers' union says the move would compromise safety. Lawmakers worry it could lead to service reductions in their states.

(snip)

Federal air traffic controllers staff 315 airports, but not all do it around the clock. For example, control towers at Mansfield Regional Airport in Ohio and at Palm Springs International Airport in California operate for only 17 hours, Martin said.

(snip)

The Bush administration has proposed a lean budget in 2006 for the FAA. Yet next year, the FAA plans to hire and train about 1,200 air traffic controllers to replace those who are leaving.

Rep. John Mica, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure's aviation subcommittee, said closing some towers for part of the day is a good idea.

(snip)

http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204~21474~2715456,00.html#

[high density]

Thank God we spent billions on capturing Saddam and blowing up Iraq!

I'm so glad we didn't do something useful with that money.

[kiraboo]

The local news said our nearby airport is on the list.

Military planes take off from there at all hours and sometimes they perform exercises over our neighborhood. I'd be THRILLED if they'd shut the thing down during the evening hours. I guess I'm assuming that it would be a complete shutdown, though, and not just planes making use of a darkened runway.

[karlrschneider]

I don't recommend it, but I've landed on unlit, dark runways lots of times

but obviously only at airports I know very well. :D

[kiraboo]

We have these military planes flying low and fast over our house

at all hours of the night. Every time I hear one come near I fear the worst. I hope they are all as skilled as you are.

[Fleshdancer]

10. note to self: don't book another late night flight.

Aside from air safety, couldn't this also be a security risk?

[demnan]

11. THey just want to privatize the FAA and fire all those unions workers

[Up2Late]

14. That could be it, but...

... it could also be that the FAA, who will probably have their budget cut ever further this year, are already about 30% understaffed.

Will this lunacy ever end? :crazy:

[Warpy]

12. WOO HOO

Time for drug traffickers to have a midnight to 5 AM moratorium on being tracked!

I don't suppose those damned fools have thought about that.

Nor have they thought about all those red eye cross country flights.

Morons. Penny wise and pound foolish all the way.

[question everything]

15. John Mica has never shown himself to have much of gray matter n/t

[Up2Late]

16. Good News!

The budget for the "War on Drugs" is going to be "slashed dramatically" too.:bounce:

[damntexdem]

13. Hey, can't you stand just being 90% safe?

As long as they get you into the air safely, and get you to your destination -- what, you think you deserve a safe landing, too?

Try some individual self reliance: take a crash course in air traffic control, and then try to aid the pilot of the plane you're on.

Happy flights!

[flyingfysh]

18. I don't think you want to take that kind of course

Think about it: do you *really* want to take a "crash course" in air traffic control?

[JaneDoughnut]

17. A crappy compromise

Obviously, I don't know as much about the subject as the FAA, but if there are towers that are unstaffed or don't receive flights during those hours (there are according to the article), why doesn't it make sense to close them during the early morning? And wouldn't that be less of a security or safety risk than further staffing cuts?

(Of course, it would probably make more sense to INCREASE the FAA's budget instead, but we know that won't happen.)

[Massacure]

19. Why not have an AWACS do airtraffic? Good way to keep troops trained.

[DemoTex]

20. Here is a situation I found myself in ... airport tower closed.

We were delayed out of Charlotte for a short hop over to Asheville (AVL). I was in a Boeing 737-400 with 148 passengers and a crew of 6. Asheville was at minimums (200' ceiling, 1/2 mile vis). The tower was scheduled to close at midnight. We finally got off the ground at Charlotte at 11:45 pm. I had my dispatcher call the AVL tower and request that they stay open a few minutes past their midnight closing time. That would give us a chance to shoot the approach and land with the kind of info/service a tower can give you (such as monitoring the ILS and the runway lighting system). They could not do it. They closed at midnight. We had to shoot a tight approach in mountainous terrain to a runway that we controlled the lighting on with clicks of the microphone for various levels of brightness. We broke out at 200 feet and at least the runway lights were on (way too bright, but better than a black hole and a missed-approach).

The air traffic controllers' union says the move would compromise safety. Lawmakers worry it could lead to service reductions in their states. Both are correct.

[Blue_Tires]

21. 'clicks of the microphone?'

interesting story; but i'm not sure i understand...can you explain that part in simpler terms?

[bananas]

22. Sounds like they use "the clapper"

Sounds like they use "the clapper"

[DemoTex]

25. Good analogy

The tower at JFK is closed so the crew of an in-bound Boeing 747 with 245 passengers sing "Clap-on, clap-off, the clapper!", clap their hands, and hope that the runway lights come on.

[saigon68]

28. LOL Good One DemoTex

Maybe they could get out a few "White Canes" and "feel for" the Runway.

[Skeptic_All]

23. The runway/taxiway lights at many smaller airfields

and fields with lower traffic densities can be controlled via remote control. The frequency, usually used by the local controller, can be connected to a switch box which will activate the runway lights and/or approach lights for that particular airport by the pilot simply "keying" his/her radio a number of times in succession. The brightness of these lights can also be controlled by a different sequence of radio clicks but this feature has notoriously, at least in the past, been unreliable.

As for closing some facilities during mid-night hours. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the absence of traffic justifies it. The author of the previous post does explain one scenario where it may not be advantageous to close a facility where scheduled service flies into airports with hazardous approach procedures. Air Traffic Control centers, which remain open 24/7 have no ability to monitor a flight's progress once it descends through altitudes normally used for the execution of approaches.

[DemoTex]

26. Excellent explanation Skeptic_All

I agree to on the wisdom of closing towers at night where traffic does not support their operation. However, I think FAR 121 should prohibit an airliner on a revenue flight from landing at an airport without an operating control tower. Likewise, I think that ATC regs should require that a tower stay open when they are notified by airline dispatchers of flights already en-route that will be late arrivals* (within a reasonable time frame .. say 30 minutes).

On edit: * As long as controllers duty-time limitations are not exceeded. Another scenario is (and I don't know the answer) an inbound emergency at tower closing time. I would think they would stay open.

[Skeptic_All]

I agree, Part 121 operators should enjoy the services

of a full staffed air traffic control facility. If an airport has the luxury, and for some smaller airports that's exactly what this is, of receiving scheduled carrier service, then the respective airport authority should at least pony up a share of the overtime/manning expenses for keeping the facilities open during the carriers operations.

[burrowowl]

30. Any airport towers being closed

from midnight to 5:00 where traffic is diverted due to weather or other!?

[DemoTex]

24. It is called "pilot-controlled lighting."

When approaching the airport after the tower has closed for the night, the pilot tunes in the tower frequency or other published frequency for this feature. The lights are on a timer so the pilot must be careful not to activate the lighting too early. I always activated the lighting just outside the outer marker, before we got busy with gear, flaps, and the landing checklist. At that point the microphone is keyed (transmit button pressed) a fixed number of times for each brightness level available. A receiver on the ground senses the microphone keyings (pulse transmissions) and activates the runway lighting. I absolutely hate the system and actually turned back from Savannah one night when we could not get the damn runway lights on.

IMHO, FAR 121 operations (airliners) should not be allowed into airports without an operating control tower. I speak as an airline captain and an ALPA accident investigator.

Hope that explains this weird system.


MD-80

[mhr]

Hi DemoTex - You Might explain To The Audience The Differences

Between Part 91, Part 135, and Part 121 operations.

I think that most non-aviation folks have little understanding of the arcane operating rules of the FAA.

[karlrschneider]

Looks like my friend Mac (DemoTex) is away for now, here's a quickie

(I'm also a commercial pilot since 1963)...part 91 is "General Aviation", 135 is Charter and 121 is Scheduled Airline ops, to put it in a nutshell. :D

[question everything]

1. Indeed. Great Idea. Please, DemoTex n/t

[Blue_Tires]

31. wow....even though it sounds completely funny for me to say this

i never knew landing a plane was so complicated!

thanks for the info

[burrowowl]

29. The ATC

strike was about safety in the Raygun era, not money.
Can you imagine privitized and run like choice point: oops we lost track of 1000's of aircraft, the hackers know where they are.
And the U$ Gov still has a poor track record, it constantly emasculates the FAA, even under Clinton.
And repukes had the audacity to rename Washington Airport after Raygun.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :puke:

[struggle4progress]

32. "Why should we care? We're the Ownership Society."