Conservative Southern Dems Disappearing

[Pirate Smile]

Conservative Southern Dems Disappearing

By JEFFREY McMURRAY
The Associated Press
Monday, April 25, 2005; 11:01 AM

WASHINGTON -- In consecutive days last month, Alabama lost two legends from a disappearing movement _ Southern Democrats who were powerful in Washington because of their party's majority and powerful back home because of their tendency to buck it.

Look around Congress these days and you'll find few conservative Democrats in the mold of the late Sen. Howell Heflin or Rep. Tom Bevill. Those who remain are almost as likely to represent the Midwest or Great Plains as the once-solid South.

According to Congressional Observer Publications, only one current House member voted against his party at least a third of the time last year. That was Democratic Rep. Collin Peterson of Minnesota.

In 1998, there were 13 in that category, including eight Southerners, and three of them opposed Democratic leaders more than half the time.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/politics/index.html

[Arugula Latte]

1. Well,

if we ever make any inroads in the South, I'd rather have real Dems anyway. That's a big "if" though.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kolesar]

9. Gore won. That makes 20 years for Dems, 20 years for 'Pukes since 1964

I read the salon.com version of this story. The story focuses on how legislative seats for conservative Dems are disappearing. A lot of that is due to GOP gerrymandering. It is not entirely due to loss of support due to policies.

[xultar]

2. So, then you want to lose. Right? There aren't enough electoral votes

if we don't have some southern dems.

So, if you want purity then you want to be a loser.

Even Howard Dean is against this move.

[iamjoy]

3. Hardly Breaking News

This has been a trend going on for years. And I wouldn't say they are "disappearing" - the DINOs are becoming Republicans.

[mpendragon]

4. Dixiecrats and their predecessors

Things that make the South solid in the past were Dixiecrats and their predecessors. They were racist, homophobic, sexist, and xenophobic but they were also pseudo-populists that appealed to poor Southerners without delivering much on their promises.

The highest rates of population growth are in the South and West which is bad for our chances in the electoral college. We aren't going to get the South back any time soon and they are going to become much more important in the next few years.

The best we can hope to make inroads in the South without compromising on our ideals of fairness for gays, women, minorities, and people from other countries is to appeal to the populists (no unnecessary wars, good jobs, progressive taxes) and deliver on the things we promise.

[Frances]

7. I agree and disagree

I agree: They were racist, homophobic, sexist, and xenophobic but they were also pseudo-populists that appealed to poor Southerners

I disagree on at least one issue: without delivering much on their promises.

A National Defense Education Act loan paid for my last 3 years of college. I think that Senator Hill (D-Alabama) was instrumental in getting that bill passed.

I think that Southern Dems also supported FDR programs like social security and county agents.

I used to think the country would be better off if Southern Dems were replaced by Repubs (I knew it was politically impossible for them to be replaced by real Dems) because then their true racist colors would show.

But the Repubs who replaced the Southern Dems are totally for the super rich. They are doing their best to turn the whole country into a plantation economy with the corporation CEOs as the Massers, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh as the overseers, gays as the object of scorn the way the slaves were (justified by the Bible and the churches' teachings), and the rest of us as the poor white trash.

[mpendragon]

14. old Southern Democrats

I didn't really mean to imply that they didn't try to accomplish the socially responsible goals they set. I think they failed in a lot of significant ways where their Northern counterparts succeeded especially with labor law. Unions in the South were and are generally much weaker in the South. Agricultural vs. industrial development may have had something to do with that too.

Treating service men and women with respect and as much money as we (I was born in a culturally Southern part of Florida) can spare and get from the federal government is pretty common in the South. The South sends a lot of people into the service because it is a pretty good opportunity given the lack of industrialization. Military service also promotes patriotism in a community which prompts young people to join. It also doesn't hurt that the old congressmen got a shit load of bases built in the South.

It makes sense for the old Southern Democrats to support the veteran's bills because so many Southerners were vets, and at the time the Democrats looked like a bunch of assholes because of the bonus army (WW I vets) debacle.

[flaminbats]

22. rural southern conservatives are disappearing..

and they are rapidly being replaced by corporate fascist flakes. I remember hearing countless freepers screaming that conservative Democrats like Barnes, Cleland, Fowler, Breaux, Robb, Heflin, Hollings, Nunn, and even Miller were really just big-spending liberals! But Republicans have never cared about fiscal discipline or conserving anything.

[mpendragon]

25. Cleland

I lived near the Georgia border when I was in elementary and grade school and we'd get TV stations in Albany and Valdosta. I remember Max Cleland on TV really early in the morning with "This Week in Georgia History".

I probably don't agree with a lot of things Cleland supported but there are few people that disgust me more than that sorry bastard Saxby Chambliss.

[youspeakmylanguage]

10. You're missing an important detail...

Based on my own personal observations, the population growth in the South is largely due to an influx of "carpetbaggers" (i.e. transplanted northerners) and immigrants, illegal and legal. Many of the transplanted notherners are socially liberal, and many of the immigrants will move to the left if the repugs continue to scapegoat migrant workers.

I don't have any hard evidence of this, BTW, so don't ask.

[mpendragon]

18. I grew up in Florida which should be a prime example so . . .

Why is it redder than ever before?

When I was in high school we had a pretty popular Democratic Governor and went blue for president Clinton (we did go Republican in the last few elections before that).

Florida gets new people from:
1. Retirees -> often conservative and always vote
2. Immigrants\Refugees -> Cubans often vote Rep. but others don't vote much
3. People moving in from other regions -> they may vote Democratic more
4. More natives (people born in Florida not Seminoles) -> a lot of them vote against gays, women, minorities, and people from other countries

I don't think that bodes well for Dems in Florida.

[Frances]

24. I have spent a lot of time in Florida

Many of the retirees are Republicans from the Mid West. I hope Bush keeps pounding away on social security because that is the only way to get these honest but gay fearing people to understand that Bush is not one of them as they believe.

Religion is also against Dems in Florida. There is at least one fundamentalist church on every corner in parts of Florida, especially where the poor whites live. Most of these churches are pro Bush. A friend stopped going to her Catholic church because every Sunday starting in March 2004 there were hints that the parishoners should vote for Bush.

[formerrepuke]

5. ...THIS JUST IN.. NEIL ARMSTRONG LANDS ON MOON!!!!....ok, seriously

...what 'mpendragon' wrote above sums it all up.. the Dixiecrats who held the Democratic party hostage for so long could not abide the progressive path the party was taking and began bailing out of the Democratic party- especially after 1964..and when they were unable to establish a viable third party, they saw that through it all, the Republican party had 'stayed the course'...and they have made it their own.. George Wallace/Strom Thurmond...etc. Their political descendants who have gone into politics since that era started out as Republicans.. and they conveniently blame the modern Democrats for the old-style Southern Democrats wicked ways.

[bleedingheart]

8. The South will vote Democratic when they realize they can't eat a bible

sorry but like all people they need to really suffer and see that voting for the racist repukes who blame "liberalism" for their problems isn't getting them squat.

You can pray and pray and that doesn't mean that your going to keep your job in the textile mill unless you are willing to work for next to nothing.

Samething happens here in the North...so this isn't a Southern issue.

The poor (no matter what color) are always taken advantage of by the worms in the political spectrum....the jerks like Reagan play to the stereotypes ...so some poor guy with a crappy job blames some mythical welfare mother for his problems instead of realizing that had his local politicians fought for better education, healthcare and jobs...he might have a better chance.

Eventually the poor Southerners, just like the poor Northerners who vote for repukes will wake up...and it won't be pretty.

[youspeakmylanguage]

12. The textile workers were making much less to begin with...

...which is how the textile industry in the South survived much longer than it's northern counterparts - no unions. The wages were bad, but not as bad as they are now at Wal-Mart or the various fast food restaurants where the former mill workers are forced to find work.

I'm from the south, and while I don't believe it is quite as backwards and evil as often portrayed in movies, books, etc, it is incredibly frustrating to be socially liberal here and still keep your sanity. My girlfriend and I are working on moving out west.

[napi21]

15. I agree that living in the South (Ga.) is frustrating!

I'm one of them Damn Yankees who is fron the North, transferred to the South and STAYED! I've lived in SC, GA, and TX. I don't know where in the west you're planning to move, but I can tell you, if you're looking for an improvement in political attitude, DON'T go to TX!!!

I find that people I talk to around Ga. aren't really that interested in making more $$, or job security. They really believe that God will help them find another job if the one they now have goes away. God will make sure they don't starve. Absolutely, without exception, their biggest complaint about Dems is that they are EVIL! Dems support abortion rights, gay rights, giving people $$ for doing nothing (welfare), etc. There is NO WAY to even argue those things with them and sway their opinion. They may not love everything the Pubs do, but they fight against the evil things, and they dismiss the smaller issues that don't matter as much.

[youspeakmylanguage]

16. We want to move to Seattle...

...but the cost of living and housing difference is too great.

Texas, like most of the deep south (Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, etc) is a state to which I would refuse to move, even if it meant losing a decent job. If a company or individual offered me a LOT of money, I might consider it, but otherwise I'll be happy avoiding those bastions of conservatism for the rest of my life.

Sadly, I recently added Florida to that list. I vacationed there as a kid and I loved the state, but someone has apparently been pumping more lunacy than usual into the air recently.

[napi21]

19. Washington State is BEAUTIFUL!!!

My son was stationed on Whidby Island for several years, and we visited him there. The scenery is breathtaking, the climate is very mild, and the people seemed to be very nice although we were only there for 10 days. You're certainly right about the housing prices though. My son blamed it all on "the idiots from Calif." He said the housing prices used to be somewhat reasonable, but then the cost of living in Ca. went totally out of control, so people moved to Wa. They had all that $$ from selling their Ca. house, and pushed the housing market in Wa out of control too.

[youspeakmylanguage]

20. LOL. Our friends there say the exact same thing...

I think everyone in Seattle blames Californians for the housing costs.

[AndyTiedye]

21. Housing Boom in the Blue States

Now why might that be happening?
Are people voting with their feet, now that other means seem to have become ineffective?

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

11. Rapture? I certainly hope so...

The world needs a good cleansing of backwards-assed Southern Repuke fundies.

JB

[Tweed]

13. That would imply the fundies are 'holy'

There is nothing Christian about their Gospel of Hate

[davidinalameda]

17. and I say good riddance to them

these are the same people who fillabustered the civil rights bills in the 60s

I say let the Repukes have them

[TroglodyteScholar]

23. I like the new progressive/liberal southern dems MUCH better...

I say good riddance to bad rubbish......

[renaissanceguy]

26. Exactly. Who needs racists and bigots

infiltrating our Party. We have good principles, and we have to stick to them and believe in them if we want to win.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21326152

[Fluffdaddy]

27. Conservative Southern Dems Disappearing...........BS

Never mind I misread. After thinking it over Yep, Conservative Southern Dems are now all GOP