(FL) Gov. Bush signs 'force with force' bill

[Synnical]

I searched LBN - didn't find this.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-426forcewithforce,0,6652985.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines


With a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association at his side, Gov. Jeb Bush signed a bill Tuesday intended to make it clear that people have a right to defend themselves on the street, meeting ``force with force'' without fear of being prosecuted.

The measure, which passed the Legislature overwhelmingly earlier this year, says people are under attack don't have to retreat before responding, as long as they're in a place they legally have a right to be.

<snip>

People already have that right in their home. The bill (SB 436), which takes effect Oct. 1, extends the right to public spaces, including on the street or in a place of business. Case law and statutes dealing with the issue vary from state to state, but supporters said the measure brings Florida in line with a number of other states.


<snip>

The measure was the NRA's top priority, and the group's lobbyist, Marion Hammer, was at Bush's side as he signed it into law.

[Fire Walk With Me]

1. Come together..for 2008

No no no Jeb for prez. No.

[Terry Allan Hall]

62. This is a sad day for Florida...

...and makes all Americans look like gun toting rednecks.

[Massacure]

2. I'm kind of split on this bill.

If someone shoots a gun at you, you should have a right to shoot the sun of a bitch back. However, it worries me what happens if it is in the middle of a crowded street.

I guess we are going to have to wait and see how the accountability falls out.

[brettdale]

3. its Like the wild wild west

I can imgaine what will happen. A gun toting NRA member will see a muslim man in the street,and he will think, well I better use force because he kinda looks like Bin laden and he might have a bomb with him.

[xxqqqzme]

36. lt's pre-emptive

defense. I thought he might harm me someday!

[smirkymonkey]

42. Or.....a Christian Fundmentalist thinks a gay person casts the

evil eye upon him and fires away to "save his soul."

This country is beyond fucked. It's all happening so quickly.

[Terry Allan Hall]

64. It's like the wild west

I believe crime rate were lower back in the wild west than they are now.

[EC]

69. You're kidding right?

Other than the fact that there were less people, there were killings everyday without thought, the West was pretty much lawless even after statehood...from what I get from my Great-Great-Great Grandmothers diaries.

Are you a lover of Terry Allan Hall's work, or is that you?

[AlCzervik]

4. and in related news, Florida's tourisim suffers

[radfringe]

39. KEVLAR T-SHIRTS -- ON SALE NOW

[Rex]

5. High noon!

Whois crazier - Jeb or George?

[demo dutch]

10. The question is... who's more sly and even more of a crook

... Jeb is the answer

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rainscents]

37. Welcomke to DU!!!

:hi:

[liquiduniverse]

6. I'll be able to shoot whomever I want...

I'll just have to make sure there are only "friendly" witnesses or no witnesses to my act, and then claim I was threatened.

What this means is now almost every asshole who kills someone in a fight (which happens fairly often in Florida) is going to use this defense. It will be a mess in the court system. It may be time for me to get a gun to protect myself.

[PartyPooper]

7. Shoot first, ask questions later.

I saw this report on CBS news tonight. JEB was gleefully signing this bill with the former head of the NRA at his side. :puke:

Surely, there will be a marked increase of gun-toting folks involved in "altercations" later proven to be "misunderstandings". Too bad, innocent dead people can't be brought back to life. :eyes:

I am so glad I don't live in Floriduh!

:scared:

[demo dutch]

11. Yeah we just Luv our State!

[PartyPooper]

17. Add booze, drugs, disgruntled former employees, battering spouses, & kids

to the mix and you have a potential disaster.

Gee, I wonder what the pope would say about this new law. (As a reminder, JEB led the US delegation to Rome on Sunday for the papal mass at St. Peter's. Did JEB tell Benedict XVI of this looming new law? I think not.)

:eyes:

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demo dutch]

40. Benedict probably doesn't care as long as you're anti-abortion..you're ok!

He didn't care about children that were molested either

[lala_rawraw]

31. Something is clearly wrong with Florida/Texas

What the hell is going on with these two states? It is like capo factions or something, no?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

61. yes there's something wrong with Florida

we get double-shrub whammied.

republicanism is certainly popular here in central florida, but it's not monolithic - lest we forget Buddy Dyer's recent victory.

[okieinpain]

63. well actually this is what you want. all of these theories that

repugs love to shout about sound great on paper. but we all know that we do not live in a black and white world. the first time a gang banger kills some white person, and then pleads not guilty because he felt threaten. jeb and gang will be falling all over themselves to change this law.

I feel the same way about abortion, there are so many females out there that claim all politicians are the same. that the repugs will never stop abortion, etc... that why should they be bothered with politics, well i say let them eat cake.

[1monster]

8. Bang! Bang! You shot me down.

Bang! Bang! I hit the ground.
Bang! Bang! That awful sound.
Bang! Bang! My baby shot me down.

[shanti]

16. domestic abuse

i wonder how this new law will affect it? will abused women get bolder? florida will never get my tourist dollars!

[1monster]

20. That's right let's punish the poor Florida tourism workers who make low

wages and who will not get golden parachutes when they are laid off due to lack of tourism.

They have already had their elections stolen from them three times. First the 2000 Presidential elections, then the off year gubenatorial election (those pre poll numbers and the official results were WAY far off, but we didn't have any exit polls then because they were so "unreliable"), and the 2004 elections for which there has been plenty of evidence posted here on DU to suggest vote counting hanky panky.

These same Florida tourism workers are already taking a bit hit in the wallet due to high gas prices and the four hurricanes that shut the state down for weeks late last summer.

I hate what Jeb Bush and the neocon state legislature are doing to this state as much and probably much, much more than you do. But if you think hurting tourism will cause Bush et als to listen to the people, think again. They don't give a flying leap off a shallow curb about us. They'll manage to hold on to their income. It's the rest of us who will lose our shirts and our homes.

Remember, you in the rest of the country are only a step or two behind Florida in the regression to hell. If it happens here, it will probably happen there sooner than you expect.

edit: spelling and grammar typos

[EC]

9. I'm sure this will do wonders

for the tourists industry....

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. Does the NRA do group vacations?

You get a bigger discount if you bring more than five guns. Kids, I mean children. Children are more important than guns.

[onehandle]

13. Yep.

Europeans are a sizable chunk of their visitor base.

Florida can kiss a lot of that goodbye.

[Mondon]

58. Vermont has NO restrictions on carrying guns--how's their tourist industry

[EC]

68. This is not about carrying

it's a law allowing you to shoot first without question, if you feel the slight bit threatened, it's poorly written also. If you feel someone is walking behind you in a threatening manner, or towards you or if you think your neighbor is threatening bang, bang....you don't need to prove a thing until after the fact, and even then all you have to prove is that you were frightened...Gives new meaning to the phrase "What you lookin at?"

[MontageOfFreedom]

14. He's getting a little forceful, wouldn't you say brother George?

Your younger brother Jeb seems to be out of his collective mind, urging and asking for a street war beyond civil war in the streets of Florida.

Maybe he should join in the fun? I'm sure all those disenfranchised in the elections he runs, would like to have a piece of payback.

[merwin]

15. That settles it, i'm never going to florida again

[DanCa]

18. A few thoughts

1) isn't Jeb Catholic, I thought the Catholic church frowned on guns.
2) I am pro gun, but I believe this is a bad bill. Guns should be used to protect a persons home or car, the shooting range, and hunting, but this bill has no checks to it. Imagine drunks at a baseball game.*shudders* They can now fire with impunity. On a side note while I said am pro gun I will never carry one - religious views aside- imagine me shooting a pistol during a parkinson's flare. The safest place too stand is where I shoot. :) Oh and I also reserve the right to sue somehow who decides to pop me one because he percieves me as a threat. Hug your kids ladies and gentlemen the world has gotten a little more meanner today.

[MontageOfFreedom]

19. Not so sure about that, actually....

It was already a whole lot meaner under Jeb Bush when he first got elected.

[lonestarnot]

21. Oh so if this law were in effect here in AZ today, we could have shot the

SUV freeper who tried to run over protesters?

[NickB79]

22. When you put it like that

Maybe this isn't such a bad bill after all....

[lonestarnot]

23. LOL

[Roy]

24. This law was too late....

For those Florida teachers, this law is the perfect tool for handling 5 year old students.

[banana republican]

26. SO IF I FIND A SNEAK & PEAK FBI AGENT I CAN SHOOT HIM??? N/T

[teryang]

28. This law doesn't change a thing

It is political grandstanding. As Florida streets are now becoming visibly overcome with the homeless, desperate drug addicts, poor and mentally ill, this bill is a sop to the comfortable rich living in fear when they have to come out to do business in the real world. It's no secret that some of the most affluent cities and towns have the worst crime problem.

If you shoot someone on a Florida street, you will be taken to jail. Remember 10, 20, life. After you are charged and sitting in jail awaiting trial, you can speculate with your lawyer about whether you will be acquitted or not, as you are given the bum's rush to trial in Florida's draconian criminal justice system.

[MontageOfFreedom]

30. I'm sorry but I got a sad image in my head....

I got the image of GTA: Vice City the video game becoming Florida, and Jeb Bush smirking doing regular radio broadcasts.

The horrifying part about this vision, is its actually come true.

Someone needs to rally a cause in Florida immediately, call for Governor Bush's full "felon purge beseeched" resignation and deport the man to the Canary Islands.

[lala_rawraw]

32. Yeah, now imagine...

Those white men who happen across a black man... he "threatens" them, is their argument, so they shot him. This is BS and boy, put this together with Real ID Act... does anyone else see this as building controls because something seems very near hitting the fan?

For example, what the hell is holding up our market and why the hell is the dollar not yet declared dead? It is almost like all the pieces have to be set first. Anyone else get this feeling?

[MontageOfFreedom]

35. Yep there is something ready to explode. n/t

[lala_rawraw]

29. Yeah, this is to arm their hit squad... no?

Why the hell would it be okay to shoot someone because they did something (wording in bill is really vague). WTF? Who is this intended for? Are we supposed to stay in our houses now in case someone might get pissed and shoot us?

[MontageOfFreedom]

34. This might be related to someone's recent poking around.

On the blogs someone has been poking around alot, into the illegal bonafied corrupt way the elections have been handled for years there.

Screenshot
http://tinyurl.com/7qx5a
Address
http://tinyurl.com/dexh4

Florida is really very dirty, and I think they figured out it was about time to start squashing dissent and put the a-kill on election fraud.

[roguevalley]

33. Florida and Texas scare the crap out of me.

:scared:

[cornermouse]

38. Don't spend your money in Florida.

There are other places to vacation.

[Javaman]

41. Nothing like the civilized days of dueling huh?

A traffic tie-up in florida at the intersection of dumbshit st. and dumbfuck st...

meathead: you hit my car!!

average dude: Hey sorry, it was an accident, I have plenty of coverage...

meathead: I don't care about your coverage! I just waxed this baby!

average dude: I said I was sorry. Everything will be paid for...

meathead: Paid for? Damn right it will be, but not before we dual!

average dude: ah, what?

meathead: you heard me, sunrise, guns, behind the wal-mart...

average dude: you're not serious...

meathead: damn tootin', I am!

average dude: hey hey, let's keep cool here, I just bumped your car, insurance will take car of it...

At that moment, a police car shows up...

police man: what's going on here?

average dude: I accidentally bumped this guys car now he wants to shoot me in a dual!

the police man thinks for a moment

police man: well, he has a right now. since jeb passed that law, a person can defend themselves in public...

average dude: but that if he's fired at first...

police man: well, a car can be called a deadly weapon, and since I didn't see what happened whose to say you didn't do it on purpose?

average dude: What????

meathead: score! see ya at sunrise dude, oh and don't forget your insurance card.

[Moderator]

43. kick to combine

[Up2Late]

44. Florida Governor (Bush) Signs Deadly Force Law (Reuters)

(There is NO Way this is going to turn out well)

Florida Governor Signs Deadly Force Law

Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:34 AM ET

By Michael Peltier

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a new anti-crime law on Tuesday that allows people to kill in self-defense without first trying to flee. Supporters say the law is a logical extension of common law that allows homeowners who fear for their lives to use deadly force to defend themselves from an intruder in their homes.

The new law expands that doctrine to include people in public places who feel threatened and could be subject to death or great bodily harm. "To suggest that you can't defend yourself against a rapist, who's trying to drag you into an alley, or against a carjacker who's trying to drag you out of your car is nonsense," said Marion Hammer, a former president of the National Rifle Association. "The ability to protect yourself, your children or your spouse, is important, no matter where you are."

Critics of the new law, called the "Stand Your Ground" bill, have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves in their homes but say the bill will create a "Wild West" mentality in public, where residents may shoot first and ask questions later. "There are going to be a lot of repercussions," said Rep. Eleanor Sobel, a Democrat. "You could have someone reaching into their pocket and if the person felt threatened he could shoot."

Like many states, Florida courts have ruled that homeowners have a right to defend themselves in their homes. Florida courts have expanded the doctrine to include employees in their workplace and drivers who are attacked in their automobiles. Outside the home, however, courts have ruled that most victims must at least attempt to escape before using deadly force, a provision gun advocates say puts victims at greater risk. The new law removes that requirement if a person has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. "All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral," Rep. Irv Slosberg, a Democrat, said during recent debate on the bill.

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.

[sdfernando]

45. I'm never going to Florida as long as this law is on the books.

As a gay man I wouldn't feel secure. Anyone could shoot and kill me then claim I was trying to kill them. The dead can't defend themselves. I'd suggest no else go there either.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mondon]

59. Pink Pistols--armed gays supporting 2d amendment rights

[Up2Late]

49. Or they might shoot you because...

..."He tried to turn me Gay" (read with a HEAVY "Red-neck" accent):evilgrin:

[truthisfreedom]

46. but think of all of the children it will save from abduction!

florida's got to have this law, to nip this child abduction thing in the bud!

/sarcasm

[bushisanidiot]

47. So anyone with a gun is Judge and Jury in Florida

it's the wild wild west all over again, people..

the repukes are DRUNK WITH POWER!

[BentleyJD]

50. There are way too many.....

Unbalanced individuals in this state to feel safe about this. Just how does this with Jethro Job's pro-life stance?
Jeez, if my guide dog accidentally bumps me into someone am I a goner?
Hope all Floridians will couple this with Schavo and get their living wills together now.
The idiots down here don't need another reason to relive the Civil War.
take care
tony and Dietrich

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BentleyJD]

53. well

several changes were made in that law for reasons like the above.
It's not the criminal some yahoo is going to shoot, it's your neighbor walking their dog at night.
See Texas, for people being shot for just ringing someone's doorbell

[SteppingRazor]

51. Speak for yourself.

Me and my guns welcome the chance to ventilate armed robbers. Yeehaw!!

[Politicub]

54. Just say No to Florida

Reason #1,233,558 why I never want to visit Florida again.

What freaks. you know some right wing crazy is going to use this law as justification to kill a homosexual "He wuz lookin' at me wrong and i had ta defend myself!"

[Mondon]

57. Yeah you're much safer in jurisdictions that ban firearms

Like Washington DC.....doh!

Vermont has NO restrictions on the right to bear arms. Are you going to avoid Vermont?

[Megahurtz]

55. Yeah well some of these kids

ought to be trained how to put this Deadly Force Law into effect on all of these rampant child molesters.:nuke:

Hmmmmmm........it just might take care of the problem!

[Ex_Catholic]

56. Did Jeb Clear This Action With Pope BeneRat? n/t

[WillyT]

60. Will Ya Have To Check Your Guns In At The Disney World Gates ???

Or if not, when waving Mickey annoys you enough, can ya just waste him???

:wtf:

[Catt03]

65. Already happening

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/south_county/epaper/2005/04/27/a5a_gunside_0427.html

Wednesday, April 27, 2005

Greg Drewes gained a small sense of solace knowing that the man who killed his son was punished.

But under a law Gov. Jeb Bush signed Tuesday, Drewes says the man who fired the fatal shot at 16-year-old Mark Drewes probably would walk free with no fear of being arrested because he claimed to be in fear at the time of the shooting.

Shortly after midnight on Oct. 25, 2003, Jay Levin answered a tap at his suburban Boca Raton door with a.40-caliber handgun. Afraid on a dark night, Levin fired at his teenage neighbor, who was playing a prank, knocking on his door.

Levin was arrested and eventually pleaded guilty to manslaughter, but Drewes said the new law will give people like Levin immunity and give criminals an excuse for killing.

So Drewes wrote a letter to the governor and appeared on CNN's NewsNight with Aaron Brown Tuesday night to publicize his opposition to the law.

"How are lawyers, the courts going to determine the reasonable presumption of fear?" Drewes said. Levin "aimed and fired at somebody running away. What was he afraid of? A door knock?... We're in deep trouble in this state here now."

Levin accepted a plea deal that gave him 52 weekends in the Palm Beach County Jail, community service and probation instead of up to 30 years in jail. Drewes said he agreed with Levin's deal because it ensured he took responsibility for the shooting. The Drewes family also is pursuing a civil suit.

"We got a little bit of a win," Drewes said. "But with this law, he might've gotten away with it."

[JohnnyBoots]

66. A little known addendum to this bill was that

it is now legal to hunt and trophy-stuff illegal immigrants and gays. The NRA is now starting to sell hunting vacation packages to south beach, ammo included.

[slater71]

67. Wait till the road rage assholes start shooting at each other.

Hey, all they have to claim is that I feared for my life and he was trying to wreak me and kill me, so I shot and killed him. Case closed.

[BobbyinPortland]

70. Maybe if someone feels threatened by Jeb

They can use that law!

[stepnw1f]

71. This is Proof Republicans Have Frontal Lobe Issues

They seem intent on creating a violent environment. Are they really so clueless? Nevermind... they were willing to use poor children from Duval County as guinea pigs to test pesticides. Brain problem or just morally bankrupt?