Congress set to impose ID card rules - States would need to verify papers

[BrklynLiberal]

WASHINGTON -- Congressional negotiators have agreed on a sweeping new system that would nationalize standards for driver's licenses and state identification cards, requiring states to verify the authenticity of every document that people use to prove their identity and show their legal residency.



If the House and Senate both pass the bill next week as expected, by May 2008 every state will be required to contact the issuers of birth certificates, mortgage statements, utility bills, Social Security cards, and immigration papers before granting a driver's license. States will also have to keep copies of those documents for seven years.

Touted as an antiterrorism measure, the Real ID Act would effectively erase laws in nine states that allow undocumented immigrants to obtain standard driver's licenses, which are widely accepted as official identification for boarding airplanes, opening bank accounts, and entering federal courthouses.

''The Real ID Act contains vital border security provisions aimed at preventing another 9/11-type attack by disrupting terrorist travel," said Representative James Sensenbrenner, Republican of Wisconsin, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee and the bill's primary author. ''Issuing driver's licenses to anyone, without knowing whether they are here legally or who they really are, is an open invitation for terrorists and criminals to hide in plain sight."

<snip>

more........

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/05/05/congress_set_to_impose_id_card_rules/

[olddad56]

1. This shouldn't create much of a black market for fake I.D.'s

not to mention the increase in identity theft. All part of the Republicans paln to bring terrorism to all of us. I think they really should consider gassing those who can't get Id's. Lets get moving on this whole Nazism thing.

[HockeyMom]

3. That and price of a gallon of gas

will be enough for me to scrap the car and go buy a bicycle.

[AspenRose]

5. I agree...unfortunately it will make visiting family out of state

very difficult :banghead:

Riding a bike from NM to NH doesn't seem realistic...

PAPERS PLEASE!!!:scared:

[BrklynLiberal]

8. I am sure that the next step will be checkpoints and mandatory

presentation of one's ID upon demand, with the predictable negative consequences if you do not have one or your "papers are not in order".
It will also provide a pefect way for the government to track your every move...

[lutefisk]

38. Society "accepts" checkpoints looking for drunk drivers

I guess ID checkpoints aren't much different-

If you aren't drunk, you don't have anything to worry about; if you aren't opposed to the Bush administration you don't have anything to worry about...

[DoNotRefill]

56. MADD has done more damage to the 4th Amendment....

than even ASScroft has done. If that's not f*cked up, I don't know what is...


The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[MADem]

69. You so FUNNY!!!!

The guys who make those fake docs will probably be spitting them out before the average schmuck gets one...and of course, the card "readers" that are used to verify the cards as real won't be found in any, never mind every, workplace, so a halfassed fake will be all one needs.

A ton of kids with fake green cards went into the military without a hitch, and finished their tours, many of them, without discovery. Why do we smugly assume this new supercard will be the be-all and end-all?

Some smart fart will come up with a workaround, they always do!

[Zodiak]

2. Thank you for posting this

An earlier thread concerning this subject was shut down because the article of choice was rather old. However, this is in the news NOW because the Bill has passed the House and made it out of committee in the Senate, ready for a vote. The dang bill was tacked on to the Iraq appropriations bill, which also includes over 900 million dollars for tsunami relief. As Randi Rhodes says, it is a "poison pill" that was intentionally injected into this bill to minimize debate and insulate Congress from the scrutiny of the People. If anyone votes against it, then they are "against the troops" and "against tsunami relief". Cute, eh?

A common technique for fascists is to coerce their wishes through kangaroo legislative bodies. I am just sayin'.

If you still think they are listening, I would recommend calling your Senators, but I have a feeling we will have expensive nationally-compulsory ID card with RFID chips that transmit all of our biometric, criminal, and social data to anyone with the ability to recive such transmissions. This will make you traceable at any center of civilization by your government, your boss, or any identity thief that can recive the signals.

The REALLY Orwellian stuff that * and his allies pass are always introduced with some form of stealth. Provisions of Patriot II passed already....sorry if you missed it; must've been watching the fake spider hole story in December 2003 when it happened.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. i agree wtih you 100% and that is why I posted this. I am terrified at

how close we are to the actuality of a Fascist state.
Here we are..one step closer, and no one is marching in the streets, or hanging out their windows and screaming...
I did a search for "id card" and saw that the only thread was that one that was shut down.
We do have to let our Senators know how much we object to this disgusting legislation.
Isn't THIS worth a filibuster? This is what the 4th Amendment of the Bill of Rights is all about.

[starroute]

62. It also turns up under "Real ID" or "H.R. 418"

Here are some other threads:

February 10 (!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=308&topic_id=19

April 20
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=120702

May 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1760414

May 5
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3604271

May 6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3610292

[BeHereNow]

13. THANK YOU!

I thought I was the only one who noticed the
December 13th Patriot Act 2 thing.
Everyone was fixated on the "capture"
of the evil doer.
Welcome to DU!
BHN

[chlamor]

19. Could You Post a Link

to get the exact provisions on Dec 13th Patriot Act 2?


:toast:
To BHN

[BeHereNow]

22. Here ya go-

http://www.prisonplanet.com/121503stealthenactment.html

And Ron Paul:
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/h112203.html
CONFERENCE REPORT ON H.R. 2417, INTELLIGENCE AUTHORIZATION ACT FOR
FISCAL YEAR 2004

______


speech of

HON. RON PAUL

of texas

in the house of representatives

Thursday, November 20, 2003

Mr. PAUL. Mr. Speaker, I rise with great concerns over the
Intelligence Authorization Conference Report. I do not agree that
Members of Congress should vote in favor of an authorization that most
know almost nothing about--including the most basic issue of the level
of funding.
What most concerns me about this conference report, though, is
something that should outrage every single American citizen. I am
referring to the stealth addition of language drastically expanding FBI
powers to secretly and without court order snoop into the business and
financial transactions of American citizens. These expanded internal
police powers will enable the FBI to demand transaction records from
businesses, including auto dealers, travel agents, pawnbrokers and
more, without the approval or knowledge of a judge or grand jury. This
was written into the bill at the 11th hour over the objections of
members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which would normally have
jurisdiction over the FBI. The Judiciary Committee was frozen out of
the process. It appears we are witnessing a stealth enactment of the
enormously unpopular "Patriot II" legislation that was first leaked
several months ago. Perhaps the national outcry when a draft of the
Patriot II act was leaked has led its supporters to enact it one piece
at a time in secret. Whatever the case, this is outrageous and
unacceptable. I urge each of my colleagues to join me in rejecting this
bill and its incredibly dangerous expansion of Federal police powers.
I also have concerns about the rest of the bill. One of the few
things we do know about this final version is that we are authorizing
even more than the president has requested for the intelligence
community. The intelligence budget seems to grow every year, but we
must ask what we are getting for our money. It is notoriously difficult
to assess the successes of our intelligence apparatus, and perhaps it
is unfair that we only hear about its failures and shortcomings.
However, we cannot help but be concerned over several such failures in
recent years. Despite the tens of billions we spend on these myriad
intelligence agencies, it is impossible to ignore the failure of our
federal intelligence community to detect and prevent the September 11
attacks. Additionally, it is becoming increasingly obvious that our
intelligence community failed completely to accurately assess the
nature of the

<[Page E2429>]

Iraqi threat. These are by any measure grave failures, costing us
incalculably in human lives and treasure. Yet from what little we can
know about this bill, the solution is to fund more of the same. I would
hope that we might begin coming up with new approaches to our
intelligence needs, perhaps returning to an emphasis on the proven
value of human intelligence and expanded linguistic capabilities for
our intelligence personnel.
I am also concerned that our scarce resources are again being
squandered pursuing a failed drug war in Colombia, as this bill
continues to fund our disastrous Colombia policy. Billions of dollars
have been spent in Colombia to fight this drug war, yet more drugs than
ever are being produced abroad and shipped into the United States--
including a bumper crop of opium sent by our new allies in Afghanistan.
Evidence in South America suggests that any decrease in Colombian
production of drugs for the US market has only resulted in increased
production in neighboring countries. As I have stated repeatedly, the
solution to the drug problem lies not in attacking the producers abroad
or in creating a militarized police state to go after the consumers at
home, but rather in taking a close look at our seemingly insatiable
desire for these substances. Until that issue is addressed we will
continue wasting billions of dollars in a losing battle.
In conclusion, I strongly urge my colleagues to join me in rejecting
this dangerous and expensive bill.

[chlamor]

30. thanx

this entire friendly fascismo is slipping in under the radar of the ever Pope-ified populace. The get-real ID should give everybody the willies.

[saigon68]

37. Nice Thug troops in the left Picture

Support the Troops</sarcasm>

[leesa]

42. So Chavez is right. They are arming Columbia.

[bonzotex]

48. once again, Ron Paul saying what our guys won't

I don't like Ron Paul, but I just have to love how he calls BS on all the true BS while our Dems sit in the back and mumble, wondering how thet can be a little more bi-partisan.

We need about 150 Democratic Ron Pauls.

[trogdor]

36. Are RFID chips microwavable?

Seriously, though. Lots of car keys have these nowadays. It transmits a key code (probably 56-bit DES - good, but breakable by a professional car thief with electronics know-how) to the ignition switch to prevent theft. Surely one could track your car by the signals emitted by your car keys. :tinfoilhat:

[etherealtruth]

4. Oh sure terrorists and other undesirables will NOT...

...carry out their particular mayhem if they know they'll be required to "get ID". Yep this will stop them (?)

Correct me if I'm wrong: Timothy McVeigh would still have had legal ID (drivers license) if these rules were in place ... Right(?)

[DrDebug]

7. Of course

Timothy McVeigh, the 9/11 hijackers etc. they would all still have a legal ID.

The point is that by a quick scan you immediately have a lot of info on the person and it's now standardized as well.

So one little portable scanner is everything you need:

[etherealtruth]

10. My (well hidden) point actually was...

... these people are NOT going to apply for the ID anyway.

You and I will ... and yes there will be a wealth of personal info available to law enforcement ... or anyone else.

[DrDebug]

11. Indeed and don't forget the secret data part

Because the magnetic code is standardized, so there is a lot in there but they wouldn't be so stupid as put really stuff in there, but there's talk about secret data which cannot be read by your ordinary card reader and you'll never know what that will be.

But the ordinary data is scary as well, because bars are going to use it as well. Just run the card through the scanner to check your age. Oh yeah, it'll also give your address, social security number, electronic signature, electronic photograph, donorship preferences etc. because that's also featured on the card.

It's not so much the law enforcement, because they have all that data already even though it now requires a computer to look it up. The difference is that anybody can access it once it's standardized. How about using it for entrycards into your workplace or other buildings. There's a big chance of that happening as well...

[CHIMO]

9. Jobs Jobs Jobs and More Jobs

Just think of all the jobs that will be created.

Lost or stolen cards. Requires re-confirmation of everything. Also requires the cancellation of the old cards.
Just imagine the behind scenes work to verify the verifiers of the data.

Just imagine the control of computers and verification of the computer data.

It just goes on and on and on.

[WildClarySage]

70. I understand that training for those jobs begins on Tuesday

in New Delhi.

[doodadem]

12. Papers?

You have ze papers? (sorry--couldn't resist that)

Ok, so now everyone in the world is going to have our private information? Have any of these people been paying attention to the proliferation of identity theft the past few years? And they're going to trust, of all agencies, THE DMV, with this info?!? I'm sorry if anyone here is a DMV employee, but that inspires NO confidence whatsoever. Overworked, underpaid, not particularly bright.
And like others posted already, the 9/11 hijackers had perfectly legal driver's licenses, as did Tim McVie. This is just throwing the sheeple a bone so it looks like they're doing something about terrorism, when in reality, they are setting up a HUGE domestic spy-on-the-citizens network.
I am a huge privacy freak. This bill gives me the screaming heebie jeebies. I'm off to email Barbara Boxer.

[CountAllVotes]

14. I have done the same!

Dear Senator _____,

I am writing to voice my opinion about "The Real ID Act". I do not believe that the government should have any business in what information is available via a person's driver's license.

I feel like there is nothing left that is personal any longer in our country and quite honestly, I am very sick of this constant effort against the people here in America.

How much further will this go and how efficient is the DMV exactly? I believe my ability to drive and my license is as far as a "driver's license" should go. What else to they want anyway. They already have fingerprints, social security numbers, etc.

Please do all you can to oppose this legislation. It is costly and I do not believe that it will lead to a more "secure" America. I view it as an assault on my personal identity.

Sincerely,

.....

*************************

:kick: !

[CountAllVotes]

52. kick!!!!!

:dem: :kick: !!!

Act now or forever hold your peace!

[Knight of Ni]

58. I forwarded your message to Senators Durbin & Obama....

...although I may be preaching to the choir. Still, it never hurts to let your reps know how you feel. That's what they're there for.

[CountAllVotes]

64. gotta keep hammering the fuckers

I find this whole thing to be absolutely sickening! I've been licensed to drive in America since I was 16 years old. That was over 30+ years ago for god's sake! I've never had an accident and I have NOTHING on my DMV record.

HOW I HATE THESE GOD DAMNED FUCKERS!!!!!!

and ... feel free to use my letter to send to every stupid ass we've got alledgedly helped to keep America, 'THE LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE' ... man you gotta be brave to tolerate this shit!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

:kick:

[Ilsa]

15. Lines from The Hunt For Red October come to mind...

The Soviet executive officer (Sam Neil) under Capt. Ramius is telling him that he wants to live in Montana, and Arizona in the winter. He asked Ramius if special papers were needed for travel from state to state. Ramius tells him "No". The XO asks again, "No papers?" and Ramius repeats, "No papers."

[Straight Shooter]

16. "aimed at preventing another 9/11 attack" should not be the goal

The next attack, if there is one, will not resemble the 9/11 attack except for the casualties. They're so busy putting restrictions on ordinary people, while those who are plotting to create havoc are quietly going about their business and circumventing these measures.

Helloooo? Congress? Get your collective head out of your collective butt. The 9/11 catastrophe took 10 years to plan and execute. Interesting how they waited until Mr. Drunk-at-the-Wheel was in the Oval Office.

[warrior1]

17. I hope

all the republicans that voted for this idiot and the idiots in congress like what's coming down the pike and that it hits them harder than it hits us.

[rodeodance]

18. another unfunded mandate tor states--and social services will get to fund

this unnecessary mandate. and we will just bow to 'national security" again. and it goes on and on.

[rodeodance]

20. tacking it onto the Iraq military bill was low-although I heard some good

speeches in Congress today by the Dems who are against this clause.

[Knight of Ni]

59. Nope, warrior. Unfortunately.....

..the targets most likely to be hit will be the cities, the same people who overwhelmingly voted AGAINST * in 2004.

Rural areas like Podunk,Alabama and Clusterfuck,Nebraska will most likely be spared.

Speaking as a voter from a Chicago area suburb, this pisses me off. You see, the true political divide in '04 was not red vs. blue STATES, but urban vs. rural COUNTIES. Many rural voters supported the Talking Monkey because they thought he was more qualified than John Kerry to protect us from terrorist attacks, and many of these Repubs still think that. The fact that city dwellers, the ones MOST AT RISK OF BEING ATTACKED, the ones with THEIR ASSES ON THE LINE, overwhelmingly supported Kerry and gave Shrub a vote of no-confidence, does not register at all with them. The fact that in New York City, the site of THE WORST DOMESTIC TERRORIST ATTACK IN OUR HISTORY, the vast majority of voters went for Kerry? Doesn't mean a damn thing. Who cares what those "elitists" think, anyway?

Currently, I neither live nor work in downtown Chicago, but I have friends and family who do. It sickens me that their safety could be endangered by the poor voting choices of people who have no chance in hell of being directly affected by an attack but bought into Dubya's fear-mongering anyway.


IMPORTANT: My apologies to any rural DU posters or rural Democratic (or 3rd party) voters. The above rant is not directed at you.

[demo dutch]

21. Anyone hear Randi today, a caller from Dom Rep recounted how

in his country the Natl ID was used to deny hurricane assistance because the ID could be crosschecked with party affiliation, so if you belonged to the "wrong" party all kinds of stuff could happen. Imagine the possibilities for wrong doing by our goverment!

[Cookie wookie]

23. Not to mention the man from Columbia

who talked about life in Columbia with their national ID card.

Appears there are 5 versions of this legislation:
Reading HR1268: scary stuff in this:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:2:./temp/~c109RdHd6Z:e135088

and here:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:3:./temp/~c109RdHd6Z:e90562:

EC. 102. WAIVER OF LAWS NECESSARY FOR IMPROVEMENT OF BARRIERS AT BORDERS.

Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as follows:
`(c) Waiver-
`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.
`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction--
`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or
`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.

[Rex]

24. This will allow Big Brother to peek at our private information

every 7 years. Maybe they will feed the data into Adm. Poindexter's TIA mainframe they built underneath the Pentagon. Scary
thought! :scared: :tinfoilhat:

[howmad1]

25. Yellow Armbands

Who needs national ID cards. Hey DU'ers, here's a "can't miss" stock tip guaranteed to make lots of money in the next few years: invest in any company that knows how to make yellow armbands. Maybe some chinese company can figure out how to imprint the Star of David on the armband. Add a velcro strip and wow, fortunes can be made. Just think of the opportunities; rainbow armbands for queers and faggots. Oh boy, the skies the limit. So who needs expensive national ID cards? Millions of cheapo armbands sez I!

Never again, yea right. }(

[kineneb]

26. data will not be secure

all it will take is some kid "hacker" to figure out how to get any info they want. Me, I'm thinking about honking big bar magnet, since the yo-yos in this country haven't figured out about smart cards yet. Sure I have the card, but it would be no more useful than a piece of paper. And what a great opportunity for some fun with mag strips... Name: "Bozo the Clown"...age: "150"...place of birth: "Alpha Centauri"

[tapper]

27. If it does pass, start working on state govt rebellions?

I'm just thinking aloud here .... but if this thing passes, I'm wondering if part of a strategy to resist this wouldn't be to work on the state level, to try and get the governors and legistlatures to finally dig their feet in and scream 'NO!' -- No, we won't implement this, not with our money, not even if you 'give' us money, this is ridiculous, this is overkill, we won't!

How well have most states implemented voter registration at motor vehicle offices? And this sounds a dozen times more complicated - and expensive.

[alarimer]

54. I think some states are already doing this in part

I live in Texas and I got a notice about my license renewal (which expires next month) saying that I have to bring in proof of social security number (meaning my card I guess) before I can renew. I can't renew online because of this. I am a little confused because there was a new law in Texas that took effect last year that says you cannot use SSN as a form of ID. At school they changed our student IDs to some other number and we all had to be recarded. Same thing with my insurance card, no more SSN on that either.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. The House approved this today 368-58

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll161.xml

[FlaGranny]

29. The local DMV offices

are RIGHT NOW saddled with long lines and short staff and many, many people get their drivers licenses mailed to them. I just wonder what they'll look like when everybody has to go in with their four pieces of identification that will need to be verified. I wonder how many months (years?) it might take to get your license/ID. This will not go over well.

I wish I were young enough and had enough money to leave this country and go to a really free one - a country like this one used to be. To think that Nixon used to scare me. He appears cuddly by comparison.

[lonestarnot]

31. Revolting? Revolting... Revolt...Puke... Not carrying papers anywhere!

They can stuff this up their ASSES! NOT DOING ANY SUCH THING AS THIS ACT SUGGESTS...I WILL STOP PAYING TAXES, INSURANCE LIVE IN A TENT WITH MY GUNS ON A REFUGE!

[Eloriel]

32. Well, as soon as I read these particular words:

States would need to verify papers

I flashed on all those b&w movie shots, usually at train stations, of Nazi checkpoints, Nazis checking someone's "papers," of Nazis "making sure your papers are in order."

Further and further we descend into the morass. Daily, daily.

[sugar magnolia]

33. Well, shit.

The lines at the DMV are already so damn long. You'll have to stand in line for days to get your license if this passes.

[lonestarnot]

34. In AZ there was a ring busted for I.D. Theft... can you just imagine>>>>

[HuskiesHowls]

35. "A Sneaky Approach to the Question of National IDs"

"...it may not do more than make sure that terrorist have their visas up to date..."

This comes from NPR's Daniel Schorr's commentary yesterday afternoon. He doesn't like the way it got sneaked into a bill that has to pass either.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4630875

And, in an adjunct story to this, they did a story about getting a license in Washington, DC, where all of this is partially in place already, and about the extremely long lines.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4632463

[halobeam]

45. The thing for me is, I humbly admit I don't understand

WHY ANYONE would sign a bill that has this in it!... Why wouldn't it be thrown back in the face of whomever wrote it and say, take this out and write a seperate bill for it.

Then THEY can say NO, and then you can say NO. Then it's on the record that you would sign the "original" bill, without the crap they threw in along with it.

Who CARES if "so and so, will say you don't support, i.e. troops, kids, etc" You provide the proof you do support that, just NOT THE CRAP THEY ARE ADDING TO IT.

I am green when it comes to these matters I know, can someone explain this me?

[Neshanic]

39. Vaz iz ya bizness in this sektor? Do you hav ze documents?

Hey Freepsters! Instead of going after corporations that hire illegals, you now have your wish. Your biggest fear has now goosestepped right up to your front door.

The national ID is here!

For the want of you Freppies getting tough with all businesses that hire illegal with laws that have teeth, the big corporations are going to make you prove YOU are legal.

What's that? You have done nothing wrong so why should you worry?

You will see my Freeplets. My pretty little Freeplets. So deluded, so innocent.

[gridbug]

40. Corruption most Electronic!

My big worry about this is that seeing as how the elections were so easily rigged via hacking etc, what's to stop "them" from targeting certain individuals and adding incriminating false data in their profile so that next time sed individual participates in (or is coerced into) an ID card scan check, the display reads "detain immediately, subject enemy of state" or "suspected child molester" or who knows what. There's no limit to the damage that can be done to anyone who chooses to buck the system... it's only a matter of time before questioning authority will merit a death sentence. The really sad part is knowing that a disturbingly large number of lazy, complacent Murkans will undoubtedly go along with the assumed "increased convenience", blinded by their unshakable faith in the administration.

[Serial Mom]

41. Everything must go through Central Services at the Ministry of

Information!


Brazil - what vision Terry Gilliam had!!


Have you filled out a 27b stroke 6?

:rofl: and :mad:

[outrage]

43. Huhn? Pardon me, weren't the terrorists here legally?

I don't see how this is going to help. How about securing the borders which should have been done on 9/12, hello! How about some real serious screening technology at the freaking airports, how about leaving that debacle in Iraq? CO'MON!!!!! Man, I wish I had moved to Canada after the election. What am I still doing here...

[gulfcoastliberal]

44. Calling all dems, where are you?

Oh, I guess they're voting for this abomination as per usual. I am getting sick and tired of the sellout routine. Sellouts!

[Paula Sims]

46. Why aren't the Rapture nuts not freaking out?

I would think this would upset the Left Behind crowd because this is one step closer to "the Mark". Perhaps that's the tact the Dems should take -- equate this with "the Mark" and keep calling it that.

Paula

[jbnow]

47. They don't care about undocumented immigrants

The INS turns away calls when they are caught, tells local police to let them go.
Employers of undocumented immigrants don't get in much trouble.

They use 9/11 for everything.

The longer lines and wait are not OK for this. They aren't open 24/7, people miss work to go there as it is. Some out stations in rural areas have been closed to save money. Will they increase staff and offices and hours?

I watch the horrors unfold, increasingly blatant. Letters and calls mean nothing anymore. Luckily I know I am asleep caught up in this really strange republican wet dream. When I wake up I would write the story but no one would believe it.

[bonzotex]

50. exactly!

This has nothing to do with immigration or terrorism.

[bonzotex]

49. What if....

..they had a National ID registration and nobody showed up?

Really this is such a great issue for us. National ID cards and associated data banks are just pure technocratic evil. The dumbest right wing redneck in Palookaville can see very easily how bad this could be.

This is such classic Republofascist stuff. What the bill says it will do has nothing to do with how it will eventually be used.

If any Dems support this, they suck. Period.

Boycott National ID. It's an easy issue to explain. Easy to be against and in this case, being against it means voting against Republicans.

[chlamor]

51. Spread the word

Great Idea

[batmansmom]

53. ID card

"If the House and Senate both pass the bill next week as expected, by May 2008 every state will be required to contact the issuers of birth certificates, mortgage statements, utility bills, Social Security cards, and immigration papers before granting a driver's license. States will also have to keep copies of those documents for seven years."

If my experience with the government, as an Air Force brat and a citizen is any example, I may have to wait for my driver's license renewal for years. Mortgage statements? Utility bills? My husband can't get his driver's license renewed because the utility bills are in my name?

I'm living in bizarro land apparently. Someone pinch me. Imagine how long the lines at the DMV will be when this beauty passes.

PHHT.

[chlamor]

57. welcome to DU batmansmom

And to other places yet to come.

[newyawker99]

61. Hi batmansmom!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[DoNotRefill]

55. Hmmmm.....under the standards they set, I can't renew my DL...

because I don't have access to the documents in question. I wonder if they'll take my Government "Special Employee" ID card instead?

[CountAllVotes]

65. I can see that

very easily.

damn!

:kick:

[Vogon_Glory]

60. Is The Real ID Proposal Actually To Make It Harder To Vote?

Does national security really have that much to do with this latest so-called "real ID" proposal, or is it actually a back-door means of keeping the Republicans in power?

It's hardly a new tactic. Southern-style segregation and Southern-style conservatism thrived because so many people were restricted from voting by literacy tests, grandfather clauses and Lily-white primaries. I am very sure that Rove and other Republicans know this.

These days grandfather clauses and lily-white primaries are passe, but the last thing the reactionaries holding the Republic by the throat are newly-registered voters angry enough to get involved and throw them out of office.

I shouldn't be the least bit surprised if one of the REAL purposes of this bill is to make it harder for our elderly and poorer US citizens to obtain a driver's license and then register to vote.

[batmansmom]

66. "Is the real ID..."

Excellent point, VogonGlory.

And did I not read that you would need this card to fly, or rent a car, or...

Ever had a completely false entry on your credit report? Ever try to set the record straight? How about being victimized by identity theft?

My one and only hope, and I've been giving this a whole lot of thinking for a very long time, is that this will be the last straw.

Bring it on.

And thank you fellow DU'ers for being here and welcoming me.

[chlamor]

67. Consider the Great potential of the National ID Card

if you are a fascist.



What's all the fuss with the Real ID Act about?
President Bush is expected to sign an $82 billion military spending bill soon that will, in part, create electronically readable, federally approved ID cards for Americans. The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the package--which includes the Real ID Act--on Thursday.

<snip>

Bottom line:
The Real ID Act would establish what amounts to a national identity card. State drivers' licenses and other such documents would have to meet federal ID standards established by the Department of Homeland Security.


The Real ID Act hands the Department of Homeland Security the power to set these standards and determine whether state drivers' licenses and other ID cards pass muster. Only ID cards approved by Homeland Security can be accepted "for any official purpose" by the feds.

<snip>

What's going to be stored on this ID card?
At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes." Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be.

<snip>

Is this a national ID card?
It depends on whom you ask. Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's technology and liberty program, says: "It's going to result in everyone, from the 7-Eleven store to the bank and airlines, demanding to see the ID card. They're going to scan it in. They're going to have all the data on it from the front of the card...It's going to be not just a national ID card but a national database."

http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+affect+you+-+page+3/2100-1028_3-5697111-3.html?tag=st.num

[Vogon_Glory]

72. I Did have A False Entry On My Credit Report

As a matter of fact, I did have a false entry on my credit report. A credit bureau tagged me with a bounced check someone else had written to a Houston, Texas pizza parlor and erroneously ascribing my driver's license number as an ID. That took quite a bit of bother to resolve, despite the fact that it was relatively minor compared to what happened to others.

I do not do business with that pizza chain--ever.

[lala_rawraw]

63. I tried, I really did...

I did all I could to get someone/anyone to listen. I was, in fact, listening to Randi yesterday. I am a fan of her show. She actually said that no one reported on Real ID, that no one tried to get this info out. I sent her both my articles, I called her producer, and I begged with everyone and anyone at AAR to talk about this issue. For months I did this. And not just Randi, I mean EVERYONE on every god damn show.

I told them to not credit me, to not even mention me. I did not care, just fucking get this out to the public.

And now, surprise, no knows "how this happened".

When you hear that journalists failed you should translate it to everyone failed the journalists. I am very pissed off. But I don't blame Randi, I am just showing you an example of something that I find to be an issue. I think AAR is slowly becoming the one thing it was structured to not be: a corporate media outlet. I know this will be flame, but I don't care. I fought for someone to get this out and most of you who know me, know how hard I fought. But if it was not in the NYT or Newsweek it was not worthy of discussion.

I must have called the Lou Dobbs show endlessly to beg him to actually discuss the whole bill, not the parts he likes (and even then, he presents them in a skewed manner).

The point is this: until people realize that the answer to mainstream/right wing propaganda is indie press, not talk shows or activist groups, we will continue down this disconnected path.

You see, the indie press gives the activists and the talks shows (some) the tools (truth, fact, documentation). If you cut them at the knees as the left always does, you cut out the tools that are needed.

Activist groups are needed per issue, not as an alternative to fabricated news. Talk shows are needed to clarify the news or provide an outlet for discussion. The only people struggling to keep the fourth estate viable is the indie press, which gets no funding and is ignored by the left and attacked by the right.

Yes, I am very pissed. What can I say, the Bill of Rights is more important to me than what Laura Bush said at a press conference.

Consider that MoveOn has 60 million and please do tell me how they worked to stop this assault on us? Just curious? Yet the underfunded indie press lacking even the most basic resources for research spend 24/7 working to get information out, making now money by the way. The conceptual pyramid is very wrong here people.

You must always start with truth and work toward activism, not the other way around.

So this is my rant. I apologize, but I am really very upset over this bill.

[batmansmom]

68. I tried

You are right. Don't apologize. We've done that to no avail. It only makes us look weak. We're being attacked. It's no longer threatening or bullying. It's war. We have to respond or we will be sucked up and left for dead, which will be unfortunately totally appropriate unless we make it elsewise. Saddle up.

[warrior1]

71. This won't

fix anything. Who's paying for this? This sounds a lot like Nazi Germany to me.

[HockeyMom]

73. Two Driver's Licenses

My daughter on her spring break came home and had to go in person (eye exam and new picture) to renew her driver's license. The fee was $45 dollars.

Two weeks later it came in the mail. Ok, hold it until she comes home. About 3 weeks after that I got another envelope from the DMV. Couldn't imagine what it could possibly be, so I opened it. Lo and behold, she got ANOTHER DRIVER'S LICENSE.

Think these people know what they are doing? You want to trust them?

[AzDar]

74. Repeat after me:" Hell, no..No In-fo, Hell, no..No In-fo...Hell,no....."

n/t