Baltimore Soldier Dies Mysteriously In Germany

[deutsey]

BALTIMORE -- A soldier who tirelessly patrolled Iraq couldn't wait to come home to his pregnant wife in Baltimore.

WBAL-TV 11 News reporter Rena Ninan said Sgt. Juwan Johnson left the war zone for check-out in Germany and that's where things went terribly wrong. She reported his family is left searching for answers about what caused his mysterious death.

"I'd like to know what happened to my baby," said Stephanie Cockrell, mother of Sgt. Johnson.

Johnson had successfully completed an 18-month tour of duty in Iraq where he survived a mine explosion that killed others in his unit. He was even awarded a purple heart.

more...

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/4711600/detail.html

[Patty Diana]

1. this is what rummy does to disgruntled soldiers

304 U.S. soldiers ordered killed by Pentagon in Iraq
Tehran Times


TEHRAN, April 6, 2005 (MNA) – About 304 recalcitrant U.S. soldiers have been killed by the Pentagon’s special team, intelligence sources in Iraq have revealed.

The sources quoted high-ranking U.S. officers as saying that since the U.S. occupation of Iraq in March 2003 more than 304 U.S. military forces have been executed in spurious clashes at the behest of army commanders and with the knowledge of the Pentagon.

The soldiers ordered killed were mainly among those who suffered mental disorders and protested against the massacre of Iraqi civilians and asked “Who were they fighting for”.
more http://www.uruknet.info/?p=10931

[SmileyBoy]

2. What the FUCK???

Is this true??

I'm sorry, I'm skeptical.

[Patty Diana]

6. At this point in time, there is NOTHING that I wouldn't put past Rummy

to do____shit have these fuckers every told us the truth???? NO!!!!! He assassinates jornalists that don't see things thru his rose colored glasses. We have tons of proof on this. WHY NOT US TROOPS????? And will someone please tell me why the parents of our dead Soldiers are FORBIDDEN from viewing their children????

[lvx35]

8. I don't buy it.

Rummy ain't nice, but this is coming strait out of Tehran, whose lubing up their propaganda machine for a US led invasion. Take it with a grain of salt, or more.

[Boo Boo]

9. What's the matter, don't you trust

the Tehran Times?

:shrug:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. While this is from Uruknet...

which is not one of the most reliable sources of information out there, I have heard from other sources that there are those sorts of things going on over there, but with the mercs.

As I did, you should take that info with all due salt.

[LefflerP]

5. Really reilable source you got there.

It may get me banned, but I gotta say this:

This kind of rhetoric is what gets us lableled "moonbats" and "tin-foil wing-nuts".

You presented this as something that we should believe and not question, and enhanced it by your outlandish subject line.

While I do not agree with anything this administration is doing or has done in regards to this war, I have serious doubts that this kind of action is being undertaken and for a person such as yourself that has shown an otherwise normal participation in this forum, to put this kind of crap out, is nothing short of reckless and serves to put the rest of us in a bad light.

[Patty Diana]

7. WELL I FOR ONE DON'T CALL THE PENTAGONS NEWS RELIABLE

Remember WWII______both Hitlter and Stalin killed their own troops. So it would not be unprecedented. Do you really believe that the US attack on the Palestine Hotel, that killed all those journalists was an accident??

[mikelgb]

10. it is time

that these kinds of posts are stopped. berating fellow DUers for having a wacko belief (in your opinion) based on a source you don't trust is just plain wrong. you can't prove the poster is wrong any more than he can prove he is right. A few days ago when the first rumors about the London bombing being an inside job were floating around there where a a number of people and sites berating and banning people who would dare voice their views on the shrine of truth that is the Internet.... well now we have credible (in some opinions)sources that put forth corroborating evidence to support just such a claim. So please don't attempt to belittle ideas that you find outlandish. We live in Bush-world folks, and if the past 4 and a half years have taught you anything it should be that you can never be sure of anything. A simple "I disagree." and some *gasp* evidence to the contrary is a nice response to any post.

[whatever4]

14. I second that motion

Thanks for that post! I agree, we need to not attack each other. We are examining possibilities. It's necessary. We KNOW there have been illegal acts, basically it IS a conspiracy of SOME kind, it is now impossible to deny.

What we need to know is the magnitude of the deception, and to what depths they have descended to reach their goals, goals which we aren't completely sure of, but know their actions in many cases don't include the wishes or agreement of US. It is not longer a question of whether or not this admin is corrupt. It is only a question of WHAT they have they done. Not IF they have done anything.

Further, those types of attacks on the mere theories, well, they ARE typical of the OTHER side. And that is where they should STAY.

[AlwaysQuestion]

22. And I second the seconder

I don't know if I believe these soldiers were killed deliberately; however, I am open to considering it. With Junior that's always been my contention. He and his lieutenants haven't even a modicum of believability. Their every word and deed demands scrutiny. They get no passes from me nor should they get any from anyone else. Besides, I like my tinfoil hat and wear it proudly.

[northzax]

15. oh come on

this is beyond outlandish, rapidly approaching absurd. If we can't belittle stupid ideas coming out of hostile nation's propaganda shops, then what's the point? not all ideas are created equal, some are just plain stupid. sorry.

Or can I cite "what's the matter with Hillary" as a reputable source? you'll back me when I say that the whole Clinton administration was run by a cabal of lesbians interested only in demeaning men and crippling America? that's acceptable as well?

ideas can be dangerous, my friend, I refuse to take the really bad ones seriously, as that gives them power and credibility beyond their value.

[mikelgb]

19. hey

if someone actually thinks that and has evidence... more power to them. I am not going to stop them from trying to convince me though. And if I were so inclined I could simply research and refute with my own evidence. Now I would need to see some really compelling evidence of lesbian cabal....preferably video

[northzax]

20. will you accept 16mm?

I have this great series of Hillary having lesbian sexwhile simultaneously ordering the importation of cocaine though Mesa, swindling investorsi n Whitewater, shooting Vince Foster and selling nuclear secrets to the Chinese! only 19.99 (plus s+h, of course)

I am willing to look at someone's arguement, but that doesn't mean I can't ridicule them for buying something stupid.

[AlwaysQuestion]

23. With Bush, everything is open to questioning--EVERYTHING!

That's where you make your mistake. Because you think something is beyond the pale is good reason not to consider it? I don't think so. I don't see anyone here saying that the report is true. At this point, who the hell knows. What I do hear is that it should be considered. For instance, did I think the military would ever, ever abuse its prisoners like it has? Never. Not ever. For me, now, everything is open to debate. So, live with it.

[northzax]

25. the military has always abused prisoners

that's really nothing new, you do understand that, right? we think we've gotten past it, but really, not so much. That's a bit of a step up to having military death squad hunting down disobediant soldiers in a war zone, don't you think?

[AlwaysQuestion]

35. The ditz speaks

For future reference, don't feel you need to hide behind rhetorical questions with me? I dig the direct approach.

So basically what you're saying is...that I'm a ditz for not knowing that the American military has always engaged in abuse?

So shoot me (no pun intended). I confess, this ditz used to be one of those trusting, touchy-feely, love mom and dad and apple pie, sponge up the propaganda types who believed in the honour of the American military. Damn, I used to go to the movies like everybody else. I saw how evil the Germans and Japanese were and how noble the Americans were. So, your point is................? What, exactly?


Are you suggesting that it's a far better thing that I do to torture you than to kill you?

You seem to suggest that there's a nobility to torture (I mean, c'mon "a step up"), but the notion of killing one's own is so heinous that it must not--it cannot--be entertained as something which possibily happened. At least I'm movin' on and opening myself up to possibilities. You seem to be in the know and are closing down--you're going backwards. No, my dear, this is a progressive forum. The direction is forward.

[northzax]

42. not at all

we like to think we've moved past it, but as recently as 12 years ago, the US military strafed and murdered thousands on Iraqis on the road of death, running a defeated and fleeing army into the sand. War brings out both the best and the worst in people, the greatest self sacrafice among the heroic, and the worst sadism among the corrupt. Given the actions of this administration to dehumanise and delegitimise those we were fighting, I was not suprised at all that torture was being committed. the exact manner it was done? that was suprising, I'm not twisted enough to think, from my place of safety, of piling naked men on the floor and having dogs bark at them, never crosses my mind in every day life.

The US military is overstretched, therefore the ones guarding prisoners, on a day to day basis, are the power hungry sadists and the incompetant. The MPs that are good at their job are out guarding things, not harrassing prisoners. It's sad, really, but you put simple people, like Lyndie England, in total and complete control of other people who you systematically dehumaize, and whammo, you get torture. I don't think abu ghraib was deliberate by the higher command, just incompetant oversight.

[CAcyclist]

28. Sorry, I Don't Buy That

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, so if the "evidence" is flimsy or comes from an unreliable source, it should not be considered credible. I firmly believe the only difference between us and the freepers is that we demand evidence and logic and they fear those things.

It is not up to the skeptics to prove a negative. It is up to the theorists to prove their theories.

[Zorra]

13. Yeah, that's what happened when we started talking about the torture

at Abu Ghraib, too. Just a bunch of tin foil hatters. Everyone knows that it is only American newspapers that print the truth, and if we don't print it, it just ain't true.

Whoops....oh, yeah, I forgot...that story about torture turned out to be true.

Yeah the Tehran Times may be hokey, but

Never mind...Rumsfeld really is a lying fascist murderer that is capable of any heinous action or order. The fact that we can consider, with valid reason, that he would do such a thing is a horror in itself.

[shanti]

18. so do you have an alternate link

for this story besides the one from IRAN? if so, i'll give it another thought.

[Zorra]

33. No, at least, not at this time.

The story, as I posted, is probably hokey.

It is just that it is quite reasonable to believe that our fascist neocon leaders are fully capable of such actions, can almost be expected to order or perform such heinous acts because of their utter lack of loyalty to the US and lack respect for human life, that gives possible credence to the article.

After all, they did, inarguably, deliberately lie us into this illegitimate and unjustifiable war.

[shanti]

34. not questioning your credibility

i do believe that they are capable of just about anything. it's just that i've posted other stories from this source elsewhere, and was called on the link, so i'm kinda wary ;-)

peace!

[AlwaysQuestion]

24. You bet!!

Who would have ever thunk?

[northzax]

26. anyone who thought about it

actually. find me a war in which prisoners weren't abused in some manner of other. Have you seen what happens in US prisons? same type of thing. You dehumanise someone enough, and it becomes easy to abuse them.

or do you somehow think that Japanese and German POWs were given cake and tea? how about North Koreans? sure. every single one of them. Viet Cong? please.

difference? photographs. Put a bunch of 20 year olds in total charge of other human beings, and you get Lord of the Flies.

seeing the photos was shocking, no doubt, but were you really all that suprised? seriously.

[AlwaysQuestion]

38. You're right, of course!

The operative phrase is "used to"--as in the days when time seemed to go on forever. Oh, yeah, I was high on something in those memorable years of innocence. High on life, good times, not a worry, long, lazy days and fun in the sun. But, hell, now I'm a bitch and eat tacks as snacks. You'll forgive a little bravado.

Perhaps I jumped the gun a bit on the "You bet" bit. Actually, I believed it the moment that torture hit the news. But most people disbelieved it--and I thought that that was the point the poster was making. Actually, the first book I read about "justice" and prisons was the Scotsborogh Boys Case which I found devastatingly shocking and so frightfully sad; in fact, there were many, many passages that I couldn't bring myself to read. The very idea of treating another human being in such a dehumannizing, sordid way was so beyond the pale. That book woke me up like no other--and I was still very young then.

[CAcyclist]

31. I Don't Remember It That Way

Sure, the freepers and Republicans were trying to spin it anyway they could, but we weren't.

Abu Ghraib is par for the course if you've read any of our history in Central and South America - remember the CIA torture manual that was discovered in, I believe El Salvador, in the 80's? So, no, "tinfoil hat" wasn't the first thing I thought of, when I read about Abu Ghraib.

[CAcyclist]

27. I Agree

It reminds me of the way the FBI infiltrated the anti-war and civil rights groups in the 60's. They spread disinformation like this to try to make those groups look crazy.

By the way, LefflerP, welcome to DU:hi:

[krkaufman]

11. Iranian "news" source

I don't find this story any more credible than our own admin's propaganda. Any such "killings" or "spurious attacks" would quickly turn the military inside-out.

[MisterP]

21. when U.S. soldiers to mass executions, it's of Iraqis that we hired

Seymour Hersch reported just one such incident almost half a year ago. They hired some Iraqis as granary guards, the soldiers got amicable with them, then orders came to execute the lot as insurgents for the body count numbers. A couple Tillman-style deaths are likely too, when it comes to U.S. soldiers.

[CAcyclist]

32. Link,please,nt

[MisterP]

40. at Berkeley:

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/10/11_hersh.shtml

[CAcyclist]

46. This Doesn't Say The Same Thing

It helps to post excerpts of what you believe the point to be within the article.

Hersh here is talking about disappearing people "just grabbing them" - that's huge, but far different from the article the OP cited. If Seymour Hersh says something, I am going to listen, but he's not saying what the article the OP contributed states.

[MisterP]

47. here, near the bottom

There was more — rumors of atrocities around Iraq that to Hersh brought back memories of My Lai. In the evening's most emotional moment, Hersh talked about a call he had gotten from a first lieutenant in charge of a unit stationed halfway between Baghdad and the Syrian border. His group was bivouacking outside of town in an agricultural area, and had hired 30 or so Iraqis to guard a local granary. A few weeks passed. They got to know the men they hired, and to like them. Then orders came down from Baghdad that the village would be "cleared." Another platoon from the soldier's company came and executed the Iraqi granary guards. All of them.
"He said they just shot them one by one. And his people, and he, and the villagers of course, went nuts," Hersh said quietly. "He was hysterical, totally hysterical. He went to the company captain, who said, 'No, you don't understand, that's a kill. We got 36 insurgents. Don't you read those stories when the Americans say we had a combat maneuver and 15 insurgents were killed?'
"It's shades of Vietnam again, folks: body counts," Hersh continued. "You know what I told him? I said, 'Fella, you blamed the captain, he knows that you think he committed murder, your troops know that their fellow soldiers committed murder. Shut up. Complete your tour. Just shut up! You're going to get a bullet in the back.' And that's where we are in this war."

[CAcyclist]

48. I've Heard That Story And It May Well Be True

It's still not the same thing as:

TEHRAN, April 6, 2005 (MNA) – About 304 recalcitrant U.S. soldiers have been killed by the Pentagon’s special team, intelligence sources in Iraq have revealed.

And, sorry, I was saying the OP story when I meant the second story posted.

[Kelvin Mace]

16. Come on people

let's remember we're the reality-based community.

[shanti]

17. what kind of link is that?

uruknet?? i wear my :tinfoilhat: proudly, but dunno about this one.

[WinkyDink]

3. Seriously

It's probably the infectious pneumonia that has killed other soldiers in basic training.

[Tempest]

12. Is his name on the official Iraq war fatality list?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. Probably should wait to see whether he died from Iraq related causes, no?

In any case, he's not a "hidden death," since his family immediately publicized it (which would of course happen to the supposed 3,000 or 4,000, or 6,000 "hidden" deaths that people rave about here).

[Tempest]

39. Complications from the blast he was wounded in

I'll bet big money this is the case, which would make it Iraq related.

Funny how the official death count rarely includes those who died in the U.S. military hospital in Germany. Doctors can't be saving that many soldiers.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. Absolute bullshit

The official death count includes soldiers who died in hospitals in Germany, and you have no evidence to the contrary. Stop spreading lies.

[Tempest]

43. Prove it

Prove the death count includes soldiers dying in hospitals.

The DOD site doesn't seem to have those numbers.

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. You're completely wrong

Go to this site

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/Details.aspx

Scroll to the bottom. Filter by place of death. There are a number of German and US hospitals listed there. Hit one. Watch the list come up. Read the DoD notice on each one. Those are all in the official numbers.

Get a clue.

[Miss Chybil]

29. Jesus Christ people die everyday for "mysterious" reasons. Why don't

you all wait for the autopsy before attributing this, along with every other earthly action, to the all Powerful Bush Cabal?

[AuntiBush]

30. Stories like this "Break my Heart!" Where's the Out-Cries from

the Religlious-Right, now!?! Don't see them in an uproar in my neck of the woods here. There will be a place for these evil-doers.

My condolences to Sgt. Johnson's family and so many other families that have paid so dearly for this Culture of Corruption adm.

[leesa]

37. Wonder if it was all the holes in him? Stuff leaks out.

[soulcore]

45. first thing i thought was that virus as well

there is a nasty bug going around the boot camps, we're talking it will kill a healthy soldier with respiratory failure in under 18 hours.

I believe it's a more resilient strain of an adenovirus, although i don't have the link to where i read that handy.