State (CA) rejects e-voting system (Diebold)

[Boredtodeath]

State rejects e-voting system
By Ian Hoffman, STAFF WRITER
29 July 2005
The Oakland Tribune
English
(c) Copyright 2005 ANG Newspapers. All rights reserved.

After possibly the most extensive testing ever on a voting system, California has rejected Diebold's flagship electronic voting machine because of printer jams and screen freezes, sending local elections officials scrambling for other means of voting.

"There was a failure rate of about 10 percent, and that's not good enough for the voters of California and not good enough for me," said Secretary of State Bruce McPherson.

If the machines had been used in an actual election, the result could have been frustrated poll workers and long lines for thousands of voters, said elections officials and voter advocates on Thursday.

"We certainly can't take any kind of risk like that with this kind of device on California voters," McPherson said.

Rejection of the TSx by California, the nation's largest voting system market, could influence local elections officials from Utah to Mississippi and Ohio, home of Diebold corporate headquarters, where dozens of counties are poised to purchase the latest Diebold touchscreen.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/dailyreview/localnews/ci_2898218

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. ah the solution is oh so simple

but don't expect people to do it, look to oh Canada... paper, hand counted

[seemslikeadream]

2. influence local elections officials from Utah to Mississippi and Ohio

:toast:

[joeunderdog]

3. YYYYYYYYYESSSSSSS!!!!!

49 to go!!!

THE biggest issue for Democrats and Democracy. If we don't get back the voting e-machines, we can't get back into office. Hope (but doubt) this story has legs.

[Boredtodeath]

5. Oh, this is big

Devastating to Diebold.

Now, you folks in Ohio, start SCREAMING. Don't let them in YOUR state.

[roseBudd]

27. Send this story to every member of the Butler County Ohio BoE

Reporters contact at bottom. I can't because of my job.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050727/NEWS01/507270346/1056/news01

Butler Co. first with 'e-voting'
By Janice Morse Enquirer staff writer
Machine testing wraps up

HAMILTON - Voting is becoming more high-tech and reliable in Butler County - the first county in Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky to employ touch-screen voting machines, officials say.

snip

The testing, mandatory under federal law, is a step toward putting the machines to use in the Nov. 8 general election, six months before the U.S. government's deadline for replacing problem-ridden punch-card voting systems that created havoc in the 2000 presidential race.


"The remarks I hear most are, 'Wow!' and 'Neat!' " Imhoff said. "Most people feel it's reliable and confidential - and fun. They leave with smiles on their faces."

snip


The county bought the machines from Diebold Election Systems Inc. with about $3.5 million from the federal Help America Vote Act, which requires all states to replace punch-card voting systems by May 2006.

Neighboring Warren and Clermont counties are opting for optical-scan systems, in which voters blacken ovals with pencils. But Clermont, which hasn't chosen a vendor for its machines, joined Hamilton and other counties in a lawsuit against Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell. They take issue with his office setting a deadline that required counties to choose an election-machine system before some manufacturers' machines were ready.

James Lee, spokesman for Blackwell, declined to discuss the lawsuit Tuesday. But he said Butler will be the first county in Greater Cincinnati to begin using the e-voting machines. He said 34 other counties in Ohio also have selected the machines.

Many Kentucky counties - including Kenton, Boone and Campbell - have been using computerized systems since the 1990s. But those systems are "push-button," not touch-screen - and don't provide a paper receipt that can be used during recounts, said Campbell County Clerk Jack Snodgrass.

He said those counties will be adding at least one touch-screen voting terminal in each precinct because those machines allow people with disabilities to vote without help from another person, as federal law requires. And, he said, as the push-button machines wear out, they will be upgraded to the touch-screen models.

E-mail [e-mail]

[IndyOp]

59. I emailed Janice Morse -

Including links to 'Oakland Tribune' and to the Conyers' Report.

I am off to look up emails for Butler County BOE - do you have them?

On edit: Might as well send the emails to the correct county - Butler.

[IndyOp]

65. OMG - Special Guest Speaker at Butler Co GOP - KARL ROVE!

:puke:

Okay, I was looking up names and emails for Butler County, BOE -

I emailed:

Lynn Edward Kinkaid, Director
[e-mail]

Betty L. McGary, Deputy Director
[e-mail]


I could not find email addresses for the elected BOE members: Daniel J. Gattermeyer, Joseph W. Schwarz, John M. Holcomb, or Judith A. Shelton.

When I Googled 'Joseph W. Schwarz' I found this:

2004 was an exciting year for us.

<snip>

Our Party has always taken pride in working to be one of the best Party organizations in the region, but our enormous turnout on Election Day has identified Butler County as one of the strongest and most important Republican organizations in the nation.

Because of the hard work and contributions of our local Butler County Republican Party, Karl Rove, Senior Advisor to President George W. Bush has agreed to be our Lincoln Day speaker this year.

<snip>

Thank you for your past support of our President and our Party, and I hope to see you at this year’s Lincoln Day featuring Karl Rove.

<http://www.butlercountygop.org/execmess.htm>

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[roseBudd]

76. Butler, Waren & Clermont are considered by Arnebeck to be the biggest...

cheaters in stolen election 2004. Check out the C. Ellen Connaly anomaly and you'll see what I mean.

[Rainscents]

51. Oh, lets say... 47 States to go!

Oregon and Montana has all paper ballots!

[FogerRox]

70. & Vermont IIRC

[Rainscents]

74. Oh yea, forgot Vermont! Thanks for reminder!

[swag]

4. Recommended - a ten percent failure rate

[garybeck]

6. a battle victory in the war for democracy in america !!!!!!

yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[marions ghost]

7. best news today--thanx

:applause:
--I take it that the CA decision was based on technical failures, NOT the fact that the systems are unauditable and extremely vulnerable to tampering, and the software is proprietary. But it's a step in the right direction.

[Boredtodeath]

9. You didn't REALLY think McPherson

Would publicly admit that the activists were right all along, did you?

[marions ghost]

16. No........

I understand the face-saving component in this debate. None of the state officials want to admit how badly they were hustled by the industry. But this decision implies that if the machines just functioned better, they'd be fine with all the other loopholes in the system. We still have to keep the pressure on about that.

[Iowa]

60. I thought the same thing...

and this is a very important distinction.

[Eloriel]

86. Yeah, which makes this ultimately disappointing, tho

at least a first step.

[annabanana]

22. don't care....

those worried about "who gets credit" are just (not to be elegant about it) waving their dicks in the air..

[Boredtodeath]

29. It's not about CREDIT

and you know it.

It's about stopping these machines and we finally have ONE victory under our belt.

One does have to wonder, however, if some of those very same activists will now at least admit their very public accusations against Mr. McPherson were WRONG.

I don't know McPherson, and I'm not in California, but it will do us all good to remember we "catch more flies with honey," and behaving badly in public, putting elections officials in a box doesn't win the war.

[CAcyclist]

40. I Will Reserve Judgment On That

Mc Pherson was part of the Republican attempt to get a differently worded redistricting proposition on the ballot than the one that was circulated to the public.

Lockyer, our Attorney General , stopped that, by suing them.

There is no way the Republican Party simply made a mistake on one of their core efforts. I am convinced the changes were significant enough to change how the resdistricting would have actually been carried out.

[xxqqqzme]

49. after 1/1/06 all machines

in CA have to produce VVPB - voter verified paper ballots - for any newbies. That is why steroid boy's handlers R so anxious 2 waste 80 million & have their special election in Nov, 05. They and do not want 2 wait until June, '06 primary to put their props on the ballot. Kevin Shelley got that passed B4 he was forced from office by inuendo & rumor.

[yurbud]

52. yep--Kevin Shelley fell on his sword for us and Dems didn't protect him

[Helga Scow Stern]

99. You got that right, and this move is calculated

to make those same Dems, and anyone else who sops up the lies, act like McPherson really does have the interests of the voters at heart.

[yurbud]

108. Anything we can do to keep the heat on legislature?

Do you have a list of links on Diebold problems here in CA we could send legislators?


Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[dweller]

8. ...somewhere...

in the heavans, a red-haired angel just got some wings...


peace.
dp

[Bozita]

12. Yes, he did.

[Boredtodeath]

14. Chills!!!!!!!

You are SO right, dweller!

We WON ONE, Andy.

[redqueen]

20. Awwwww...

now you've made me cry...

Thank you, Andy... thank you so much.

[meganmonkey]

33. ...

O8)

[NV Whino]

10. Now all we have to do is

get rid of Arnie and cancel the special election... I mean for starters that's all we have to do.

[getmeouttahere]

11. A baby step in the right direction....

at least maybe we can continue to have fair elections within our state

[Horse with no Name]

13. 10% failure rate

Pretty telling.
Bush "won" the election by 3%.

Who needs any further evidence?
Thanks Andy--I know you had something to do with this.O8)

[swag]

15. Home page material

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. WOOHOO!

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:::woohoo:

WTG, CA.!

[merh]

18. Thanks Boredtodeath

I have sent this to my clerks as ammo to fight the Diebold threat.

[Boredtodeath]

23. You're welcome

It's time for other state activists to take a close look at state law. In many states (including Georgia) there is a "reciprocal" clause that says if one state certifies a voting system, other states can depend on the certification.

Soooooo, one has to wonder if de-certification also can be applied!

[redqueen]

19. Thank you, Bruce McPherson!

:bounce:

:party:

[davidinalameda]

39. better not say that too loud

you'll get some of the apologists on your case

[redqueen]

47. Huh?

Apologists for... ?

[PurityOfEssence]

21. Suck on that, Nazi-boy!

Boo-hoo, Governator; you're not going to be able to redistrict, and you're going to have to face accurate votes. So much for the Lebensraum, huh?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

24. I (heart) California!!!!

And I live here. ;)

Remember folks: national trends start here in Cali. Help is on the way!!

[slutticus]

45. Hi there!

:hi:

This is excellent news!

[FrankLee]

25. Bravo!

Of course, I'd rather see Diebold and the other makers be forced to have verifiable paper receipts, but I guess we need to take our victories wherever we find them.

[annabanana]

26. BEST. NEWS. EVER.

(at least since Germany and Japan surrendered)

Now lets do it 49 more times!!

:party: :toast: :party:
:bounce: :applause: :woohoo:

[MindPilot]

28. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

[Village Idiot]

30. PAPER, PAPER....and, of course PAPER!!!

I have never had to reboot a piece of paper in my LIFE!!!

[Orsino]

31. Rejected for the wrong reasons!

Even if the jams and freezes were corrected, hiding the count behind proprietary systems with no immediate accountability would still be wrong, wrong, wrong.

[Boredtodeath]

32. That's the PUBLIC face

Several of us knew this story was coming yesterday - the press knew it. And all you see here is the "public face" for rejecting this system. CA is concerned about being held responsible for huge losses to Diebold.

The PRIVATE face is very different. But the folks at NASS and NASED know the real reasons.

We're all going to see some massive fallout from this in other states.

[Peace Patriot]

50. Boredtodeath, please explain. I'm not sure what you mean by "huge

losses to Diebold"? You mean, financial losses? (--the zillions paid out for lemon machines?). I thought Diebold had to pay up, re: Shelly's lawsuit? Or did you mean something else? Please tell us what's going on.

What are the "real reasons" that the "folks at NASS and NASED know" (and who are they)?

[IndyOp]

58. PP - Great questions. Eagerly awaiting answers. (nt)

[Boredtodeath]

62. Sorry for the delay, stepped out to the store

OK, here's the explanation:

1. Slapping Diebold with de-certification (re-de-certification, actually) means a whoooole lot of states are going to re-think their Diebold decisions. Especially states who announced "Diebold" but don't have the machines - can you say canceled contracts? I knew you could. That's provable loss of income and if they can prove CA's actions caused the cancellations, there's some exposure to CA. See how that works?

2. Diebold took a big financial hit this quarter already. Now the bad news out of California is likely to impact them on the stock market as well. Repukes don't like to bet on a loser.

3. The NASS conference was last week in MN. Trust me, the attendees had a heads up this was coming. NASS (National Association of Secretaries of State) is their customer base; not us.

4. Selling machines that aren't certified (OH) which are twice de-certified by the same state (CA) may mean Diebold is exposed to false advertising. They've assured the states that "2002 certification is coming any day" for YEARS now.

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are larger impacts I haven't even considered yet.

[IndyOp]

67. Exposure to CA - okay, I see it,

I just don't f*'ing believe it - as in, what a freaking upside down, ridiculous world this is.

Diebold's machines are crap - in part, because the software is designed to allow people to commit election fraud - and CA is exposed because they call crap 'crap'.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Orsino]

78. Financial woes for Diebold...

...may mean downsizing, which while unfortunate may mean that more people are ready to talk.

[Boredtodeath]

83. Probably means sale of election division

It's been dragging down their profit margin for 2 years now. I expect to see them sell it rather than downsize - the elections division is all temps for the most part anyway. Few long term employees, lots of sub contract programmers and temps to conduct the elections.

The problem for us comes in when a buyer steps up to the plate.

Sequoia was recently sold to a Venezuealan company.

[Orsino]

85. Ah. Because their kickbacks...

...wind up elsewhere, or off the books completely?

I find it hard to imagine any corporation giving up, or even selling off, such power.

[Bill Bored]

94. How about Teresa Heinz-Kerry?

We could have 57 frickin' varieties of DREs!
But maybe they'd actually count the votes for a change!

Or how about a not-for-profit run by folks like us?
Give Conyers a seat on the board, hire some token Repukes (moderates of course), and undersell all the competition. Hire bi-partisan auditors and come up with a way to make sure every vote really does count.

[Boredtodeath]

98. If a "Democratic" owner bought Diebold

the republicans would suddenly be concerned with electronic voting and how much damage it might do.

The best thing that could happen to this issue is for someone like George Soros to own Diebold's elections division.

Then, this would become issue #1.

[Bill Bored]

102. You bet! nt

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

34. Message to Diebold: "We need a user-friendly vote theft device!"

We can't afford the sheeple investigating your machines, so please make them appear to work perfectly. "Count" the votes however the heck the RNC tells you to, but don't upset the people with superficial glitches.

[Liberty Belle]

35. Diebold can reapply in 30 days, the article says.

We've won the battle, but not the war. This sure leaves local officials in a bind, with the November special election coming up soon.

[MindPilot]

42. Diebold is not going fix the problems in a month

no major company can move that fast.

But we need at this point to all stay on the Secretary of State's office and our county supervisors to make sure they don't just take Diebold's word for it when they say the fix is in. <pun intended>

[redqueen]

48. Numbers for SOS Offices

Elections Division
Main Number: [phone]
TDD Only - No Charge To Calling Party: [phone]
Voter Fraud Hotline: [phone] / (800) 345-VOTE


Political Reform Division
[phone]

[jsamuel]

36. .

:thumbsup:

[loudsue]

37. We need to spread this article far & wide!

All States need to STOP purchasing these damned black boxes, and sue the pants off the fraudulent election machine making companies.

I want an investigation in EVERY State by the State Bureau of Investigation....forensics, and the whole 9 yards, done on the machines that were used in the 2004 election.

We need nationwide recounts NOW!

O8) Thanks, Andy! We miss you!! :cry:



:kick::kick::kick:

[IChing]

38. This is one of keys to winning back the house and senate.

What you can do:

If you live in a state or a district that uses paperless voting machines, and if there is statistical or other evidence of voting fraud, contact your state Attorney General or your local District Attorney and demand a criminal investigation.

As the 2006 election approaches, join the determined effort to abolish e-voting and to use paper ballots instead. Failing that, demand paper receipts from the e-voting machines. If, as is likely, e-voting and computer compilation remains in place, it is still possible to institute safeguards – e.g., double-balloting, random inspection of touch-screen machines, and parallel compilation of regional votes. (For more details, see my "What Can We The People Do About Election Fraud?).

Insist on exit polling. If the RNC tries to put the exit polling companies out of business, set up alternative exit polls. Same with pre-election polls. It is not unlikely that established organizations such as Gallup will be corrupted and will put out fake figures. In that case, support and publicize the remaining honest polling organizations such as (presumably) Zogby.

A simple majority may not suffice in your district or state. Work relentlessly for a super-majority. If sufficiently large, the “fixers” might not dare to steal the election. Suppose, for example, that the imminently defeatable Rick Santorum were behind in the late polls by 65% to 35%. How would a “surprise” Santorum victory go down? Add this to several more “surprises,” resulting in continuing GOP control of Congress. Might it finally dawn on the US public that their trips to the polls are a waste of time, and that the election results are simply what the GOP want them to be? And might that public finally begin to see the 2002 and 2004 elections in a new light?

[Sam_Lowry]

41. To quote Cartman

Sweeeeet! :beer:

[AmBlue]

43. kicking for Andy

:kick:
WOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

[truthisfreedom]

44. it's pronounced dee-bold, and it's soon going to be associated with low-

quality junk in the minds of people all over the nation. as well it should be.

say it together... dee-bold is junk. we need to get off of this "rigged election" message because it just makes the 'pukes resist our efforts to get rid of dee-bold... the new message to stay on is "dee-bold is JUNK!"

[Pithy Cherub]

57. As California goes so should the nation! The failure of Diebold

in these extensive tests for the nation's should be sent to every state that selected the Republican owned system! I love my state! :applause:

:woohoo:

[Bill Bored]

95. Yes and no.

We need the Repukes to acknowledge the problem, but by focusing only on one company, we lose the argument that the DRE concept itself is wrong.

Paper ballots with optical scanners would probably be fine although even Diebold makes 'em. Recounts are a breeze though and if the scanner freezes, the ballots can be scanned later.

I'm not suggesting that anyone buy Diebold Op Scans because they are also programmed via GEMS servers, which are highly exploitable, but I'd trust them more than I'd trust their DREs.

And who's to say that ES&S's DREs are any better? Check out the Miami-Dade stories. They couldn't even run a slot machine referendum on those things.

So we need a multi-pronged strategy.

It's not JUST DEE-BOLD, it's DREs, but Diebold probably makes the worst of the DREs and Op Scanners too.

[Im_Your_Huckleberry]

46. mighty glad i live here.

[Rainscents]

53. Thank You... Andy!!!

Your hard work finally paying off!!! You're our Angle and I know that, you're watching over us! O8) O8) O8) :bounce: :kick: :woohoo: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[shance]

54. The question now: will they now allow ES&S to supply voting machines?

Im glad to see the action is taking place, Diebold is not the entire problem here. It is simply the company that has received the most critism. It's brother company Election Systems and Software is owned by the brother of Diebold and California would still be faced with the same scenario if ES&S is allowed to now supply the equipment.

The problem is not solely with Diebold. The problem is with the electronic voting machine companies in general and the problems that arise when the transparency of the voting process is violated via ballot data being tabulated electronically which blocks the observation of the tabulation.

[Boredtodeath]

64. You're 100% correct

And we are far from done in this battle against electronic voting. This is just ONE battle in a long fought war.

But it's nice to celebrate for a little while. Those of us who have been fighting this battle for 2+ years needed a win to refresh our resolve.

And, yes, ES&S and/or Sequoia are the likely candidates to replace the Diebold machines.

Tomorrow we fight on; today we pause to enjoy the thrill of victory (however small) and remember Andy Stephenson.

[nicknameless]

89. I want so much to be optimistic about this news, but sure am wary of

(and weary from) the plot-twists coming from the Repug scam machine.
But this at least is one win!

PAPER BALLOTS AND HAND COUNTS!

O8) THANKS, ANDY! O8)

[shance]

97. Nick darlin', you can count on this being another dog and pony show.

They are not going to give up jerry-rigging 2006 without a fight.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize they already stole two presidential elections.

What? Do people think they've had a "change of heart"?

Friends. It's time to WAKE THE FUCK UP.

[Zorra]

55. (Pssst, hey, California.....top secret, foolproof voting technolgy is

available). Called paper and pen balloting. Canada reports that in using this system there has not been a single instance of screen freezing or printer jamming.

100% success rate guaranteed.

If you want me to set up a foolproof system for your whole state, I can have it in place by February for a very modest fee.

[IndyOp]

66. Excellent sig line-

Kucinich nails it, seemingly effortlessly - again, as always.

Dennis :yourock:

[bobbieinok]

81. that's what's needed.....a company to sell paper and pen balloting

since companies rule......and we could all be stock-holders

[anitar1]

101. We are doing OK in Oregon with paper and pen. n/t

[nicknameless]

105. Do you get to have hand counts too?

I'm jealous! :D

[mod mom]

56. EXCELLENT-Hats off to all the dedicated CA activists who

fought so hard. This will hopefully cause a domino effect as a cause to keep the machines out of other states. (BUT ONLY IF WE HAVE ACTIVISTS IN STATES LEADING THE FIGHT.) Come on armchair activists, now is your chance to push for fair and transparent elections in your state. GET ACTIVE, GET INVOLVED!

[mod mom]

109. Domino effect will only transpire if armchair activists join us in

getting their state and county election officials aware of the problem. The electronic voting machine industry heavily lobby the county + state election staff at national conventions. They all will definitely hear the company pitch.

CITIZENS NEED TO MAKE SURE ELECTION OFFICIALS KNOW OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THE MACHINES!

[Megahurtz]

61. WHOOOOOOPEEEEEE!!!!!!

:bounce::woohoo::applause::bounce::woohoo::applause::bounce::woohoo::applause::bounce:

[dubyaD40web]

63. 1 down, 49 to go!

[Rainscents]

69. No... 46 to go! Oregon, Montana and Vermont all use paper Ballots!

[David Zephyr]

68. Kick. Major Story.

This is great news. The Golden State!

[sakabatou]

71. YAY!

[mom cat]

72. Paper, Paper, Paper, Paper!............. Paper never jams!

[AllyCat]

73. There is a God n/t

[Generator]

75. Failure rate of 10 percent

And meanwhile..someone in the DLC would rather fix OUR VALUES (peace,full rights for women, gays, minorities,) than the machines :banghead:

[byronius]

77. AWHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

I was there, at that meeting. We are so damned cool. CA!

[Megahurtz]

79. Kick This!

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

[Twist_U_Up]

80. K.I.S.S.

Keep It Simple Stupid !!!!

Paper and pen

[moondust]

82. Finally!!

Somebody has finally tested these things well enough to see that they are unfit! (Of course the objections go much deeper than simply *not reliable* but for now...)

Why didn't Congress thoroughly test these things before it passed election reform legislation? Bribes, senator? Lookin' for a fix, congressperson?

[senseandsensibility]

84. Thank you to everyone who attended a meeting, e-mailed

or called about this very important issue. I'm a Californian, and I am so happy about this! I am pleased with the quotes for McPhearson, and I hope he continues with this attitude. Good job, everybody!

[Piperay]

87. YES!!! Us Californians would

prefer to have our votes counted!:thumbsup:

[slay]

88. Diebold machines need to be outlawed throughout the country

Everyone here knows why at this point I'm sure. :P Nominated.

[Joanne98]

90. Whoever you are. Thankyou!!!!!!!!!!

[LisaL]

91. Failure rate of 10 %? My god!

[Jack Rabbit]

92. Strike a blow for democracy

:toast:

[Bill Bored]

93. Logic and Accuracy Test for DRE Votin' Machines

"For eight hours July 20, four dozen local elections officials and contractors stood at tables and tapped votes into the machines to replicate a California primary, one of the most complex elections in the nation. State officials watched as paper jams cropped up 10 times, and several machines froze up, requiring a full reboot for voting to continue."

Sounds about right, but I wonder how they tested 'em in WASHINGTON, FLORIDA, GEORGIA, OHIO, MARYLAND, WISCONSIN, NEW MEXICO and NEVADA?

And how are they going to test 'em in MISSISSIPPI and UTAH and NEW JERSEY and CONNECTICUT and NEW YORK???

Good GRIEF!!! Isn't it time we put a STOP TO THIS NONSENSE?

(And some of you people still don't believe in stolen elections.)

[GOPBasher]

96. Yes!!!!

WooHoo!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce:

[high density]

100. It's still amazing to me...

...that a public company which makes ATM machines and security systems would build voting systems that are so unreliable and corrupt.

[Bill Bored]

103. They bought the company from the Thompson Twins or whatever their name is.

It was really just a mom and pop operation -- Global Election Systems.
Diebold just gave it a temporary air of respectability because of the ATM association. I'll leave the allegations of Christian fundamentalist control to those who know more about that I do (H. F. Ahmanson and all that).

But when you think about it, ATM transactions are totally different from e-voting. For one thing, neither the depositor nor the bank is anonymous and there are independent ways to see that the transaction was actually processed. Neither is true with e-voting today. It's a false analogy to confuse the masses and the media plays right into it.

These things have about as much to do with ATMs as cars do to bicycles.

[EFerrari]

106. Think of it more as a comment on who we trust with our

money and security. :eyes:

[merh]

112. They do it because they can?

You have to know the failings of a machine, the security issues, before you can make it secure.

It is designed to be manipulated. It is just that plain and simple. :shrug:

[eridani]

113. Not in the slightest bit surprising if you think about it

Both are complex hardware-software systems, and the only way to get a complex system to be reliable is to bang it up against reality hard and often. This happens with ATMs, which get used billions of times an hour, 24/7, 365 days a year. It can't possibly happen with voting machines, which only get used a couple of times a year. What would cars be like if no one ever drove them except for 2 hours once a year? It is absolutely unacceptable for elections to be permanent beta tests.

[LibertyorDeath]

104. YES!!!!!

FUCK YES!!!!!!!!

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marions ghost]

110. kick for Andy

[Peace Patriot]

111. Profound thanks to all who made this happen! And, yes, we have just

begun to fight. This is the democracy fight of the 21st century. It is the fight upon which the fate of our country and its greatest ideals depends. And it is the fight that history has presented to us, by which we will pass the torch of liberty on to the future.

I am so proud of everyone in this struggle to restore our right to vote. I know how hard it is and what a high mountain we have to climb, with so many obstacles in our way. But all we have to do is think of all the people who have died so that we would have the right to vote--and the long, difficult mighty struggles for democracy and justice of which we are the inheritors. Those great spirits are all standing with us. We are not alone!