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Moloch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:40 PM
Original message
Alabama candidate for AG disputes Holocaust...
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- A Democratic candidate for Alabama attorney general denies the Holocaust occurred and said Friday he will speak this weekend in New Jersey to a "pro-white" organization that is widely viewed as being racist.

Larry Darby concedes his views are radical, but he said they should help him win wide support among Alabama voters as he tries to "reawaken white racial awareness" with his campaign against Mobile County District Attorney John Tyson.

The state Democratic chairman, Joe Turnham, said the party became aware of some of Darby's views only days ago and was considering what to do about his candidacy.

"Any type of hatred toward groups of people, especially for political gain, is completely unacceptable in the Alabama Democratic Party," said Turnham.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj--alabamaattorneyge0512may12,0,1010796.story?coll=ny-region-apnewjersey
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. what is he, some kind of plant?
pull him out by the roots.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Yep. I betcha the RW put him up to this to discredit the Democrats.
Bastards.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
74. To me it seems to demonstrate that political opportunists
are attracted to the strong position of the Democratic Party, as opposed to the total weakness of the Republicans. I bet we see more strange bedfellows trying to jump on the Democratic bandwagon in the next two years.
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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
78. Didn't David Duke run as a Dem?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Just what the Dem party needs.
:eyes:
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joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Poor Alabama...Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, Selby, and
Edited on Fri May-12-06 07:49 PM by joemurphy
now this yo-yo. My condolences.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Don't forget Roy Moore
I drove the length of that state while his monument to himself bearing the ten commandments (which he obviously hadn't read for years) was the hot button issue in that state. They had the most toxic radio I heard anywhere in the south.

It's got to be something in the water there. Nothing else can explain the near universal idiocy of that state, although there are a few people who are stubbornly intelligent and capable of thinking things through.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Do you think that guy would win? Seems to me AL people would see him
as a jerk.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I have to think that at least a slim majority would.
The people I met when I gassed up my truck on the trip through the state weren't bad, just horribly WRONG.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. That guy has zero chance to win.
He's just a novelty candidate.
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Charlie Brown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. he'll only get .2% of the vote
Edited on Fri May-12-06 07:52 PM by Charlie Brown
One thing that's a mixed bag in American politics is that anyone can run for office under whatever label they want, as long as they meet candidacy qualifications. They may not get any funding or resources from the DNC, but anyone can run as a Democrat (just like Fred Phelps). Aw, well, they're just loons trying to get attention.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Our party needs to have a formal expulsion or excommunication procedure
If the Elks Club can kick you out, why not a political party? There is no constitutional right to belong to a political party.

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fleabert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
64. seconded...nt
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Alabama's come a long way. Don't turn back the clock. Ditch this SOB ASAP
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. Joe Turnham is a great guy who should be our Congressman (3d)
He was beaten by a very few votes in the nasty 2002 race. The repuke Bush lapdog that beat him is dumber than dirt.

This guy Darby was probably given some cash by the repukes to embarrass the Democratic Party. He stands zero chance of winning that race.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. I could see a republican saying that, and believing that he could win a
seat in AL on that issue. But voters of AL would reject anyone with those views.
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. he's best known as an atheist activist n/t
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Actually would say he is better known as the Libertarian candidate for AG
Edited on Fri May-12-06 09:28 PM by pschoeb
in 2002.

His atheist group, consists of himself and three other people, he doesn't represent any large national atheist group, I doubt anyone has really heard of him, and it seems more of a delusional ego stroking thing on his part.

Found qoute by the guy, where he says he is running as Democrat to "save the party from itself".
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060330/NEWS/603300354/1007/NEWS02
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #20
48. Site requires registration
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ikri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #48
61. Logins for the site courtesy of bugmenot.com
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Charlie Brown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
52. this is one reason why I'm distrustful of Libertarians
They seem to be infiltrated by the lunatic fringe, especially when it comes to guns and conspiracy theories.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
46. Aw heck ....
I have this long argument drawn up, but fuck all that ....

Fallacy of Converse Accident .....

His atheism is apparently a minor component of his character, since unfounded hatred is a useless trait for an Atheist to possess ....
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #46
58. everything I've ever heard about the guy before is "atheism"
Edited on Sat May-13-06 05:07 AM by Syrinx
And that silly hat he always wears.

I've always thought of the guy as something of a clown pissing into a hurricane.

I was never aware of his racist views until the last few days.

He's a misanthropic, would-be media whore, that rightfully receives almost no media attention except for his incessant letters to the editor.

I'm sorry you went to all that trouble drawing up an argument, when I certainly don't intend to defend the ass.

Peace.

EDIT: I meant "few" where I said "view." Sleepy, you know.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
66. Hm. Then I fully expect him to say next that he's feminist and pro-choice.
And gay. You heard it here first.
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #66
75. hmm. I think you are taking more from my comment than I intended
Edited on Sun May-14-06 12:24 AM by Syrinx
Until recently, my only knowledge of Larry Darby came from the letters to the editor that make him so prolific. His letters generally are very nasty and disrespectful toward those with whom he disagrees.

I've only very recently become aware of these other views of his.

I have nothing against atheists at all. I happen to be agnostic myself.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
71. Atheists, just like theists, can be bad people.
I know, I know, you think we're all perfect, but we're not! :evilgrin:

Seriously, I doubt this has anything to do with his atheism (not that you said it did, just making the point).

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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #71
76. heck, I'm like an atheist, just indecisive about it
You know, an agnostic. ;)

Seriously, I've thought about this God thing long and hard. The existence of God seems impossible to me. But the non-existence of God seems equally impossible. Every time I try to figure it out, I lose another transistor or two.

I was only chiming in with what little I knew about the guy. I never heard about Darby's racism or holocaust denial until the article in the OP (or another recent, similar one) came out.

My apologies if I seemed to equate atheism with racism, or anything else objectively bad. That wasn't my intention.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. District Attorney no less...
yikes...and Sessions thinks the Voting Rights Act isn't necessary?

Sessions advises Voting Act caution
Questions necessity in targeted states
Wednesday, May 10, 2006
MARY ORNDORFF
News Washington correspondent
WASHINGTON - The Voting Rights Act and its protections for minority voters may no longer be necessary in parts of the South and Alabama, but Congress should consider expanding it to northern cities and states, Sen. Jeff Sessions said Tuesday.

Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act - which requires local government officials to get Department of Justice approval of changes to voting rules and procedures - applies to nine states, including Alabama. The section also applies to individual counties or townships in seven other statesall with a long history of discriminating against groups of minority voters. In 41 years, it has not only protected the right of blacks to vote, it has led to historic numbers of black elected officials. In 1970, there were 565 across the South; in 2000, there were 5,579.

Sessions also said it should be easier for states to break free of the law. Although the Voting Rights Act currently allows for such "bail outs," only a handful of counties in Virginia have demonstrated 10 years worth of a clean record on discrimination, and are no longer subject to Section 5. Alabama has never applied for a bail out.

said the potential for discrimination remains, but Alabama officials should be responsible for rooting it out.
"I'm not saying there wouldn't be some areas that attempts at discrimination would occur, but I'm pretty confident that the Alabama Supreme Court and the attorney general would deal with that in an effective and fair way," Sessions said

E-mail: morndorff@bhamnews.com
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/114725312269830.xml&coll=2&thispage=2
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. The party needs to disown him, pronto. Disgusting. nt
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. yes, the guy seems like a perfect idiot!
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. Wow. Whacky views in Alabama are not just confined to born agains.
Atheists too. Between this guy and Roy Moore they have quite a thing going on down there. Luckily, both will lose, proving average Alabamans have sense.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. It will be Lucy Baxley (D) vs Bob Riley (R) for gove
and this fruitloop running for AG is not even a factor.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
55. ANY human being can be psychotic .....
I defy ANYONE to find an atheist group who espouses such xenophobic trash .....
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. Is anyone surprised?
Wish they still had a Richard Arrington available.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. The story reminds me of the stealth LaRouche "dems" who got on to the
ballot (that is - won primaries) in Illinois for a few state wide offices, before their views and ties to LaRouche became common knowledge. Happened back in the late eighties, I believe.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. You know, it's funny
But I always assume that those who deny the Holocaust are the same people who would love to see it happen again.

The Democrats should not even be thinking about this. They need to dump this guy, NOW.
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Bossy Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
23. kick to get it above the dupe (PS What an idiot) n/t
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jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. Alabama Democrat disputes Holocaust ever took place
There seems to be a lot of racism lately...

-------------
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- A Democratic candidate for Alabama attorney general denies the Holocaust occurred and said Friday he will speak this weekend in New Jersey to a "pro-white" organization that is widely viewed as being racist.

Larry Darby concedes his views are radical, but he said they should help him win wide support among Alabama voters as he tries to "reawaken white racial awareness" with his campaign against Mobile County District Attorney John Tyson.

The state Democratic chairman, Joe Turnham, said the party became aware of some of Darby's views only days ago and was considering what to do about his candidacy.

"Any type of hatred toward groups of people, especially for political gain, is completely unacceptable in the Alabama Democratic Party," said Turnham.

Speaking in an interview with The Associated Press, Darby said he believes no more than 140,000 Jewish people died in Europe during World War II, and most of them succumbed to typhus.

Historians say about 6 million Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis, but Darby said the figure is a false claim of the "Holocaust industry."

"I am what the propagandists call a Holocaust denier, but I do not deny mass deaths that included some Jews," Darby said. "There was no systematic extermination of Jews. There's no evidence of that at all."

Darby said he will speak Saturday near Newark, N.J., at a meeting of National Vanguard, which bills itself as an advocate for the white race. Some of his campaign materials are posted on the group's Internet site.

"It's time to stop pushing down the white man. We've been discriminated against too long," Darby said in the interview.

------------
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj--alabamaattorneyge0512may12,0,1010796.story?coll=ny-region-apnewjersey
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Well, he can kiss any hopes of being elected goodbye,
even in Alabama.

Redstone
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Good grief...
Edited on Fri May-12-06 10:18 PM by marmar
Evolution has been very unkind to some.

:freak:
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. You know, it's funny
But I always assume that those who deny the Holocaust are the same people who would love to see it happen again.

The Democrats should not even be thinking about this. They need to dump this guy, NOW.
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jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Democratic primary is on June 6th
Democratic voters in Alabama can dump this guy in a few weeks...
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Not good enough
The PARTY needs to come out against this IMMEADIATELY.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #30
54. No ... NOW ! .....
This individual does NOT represent our party in any form or fashion ....

I resent ANYONE who would allow such a travesty to continue another moment ....
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Republican posing as a Democrat
Our congress and senate are full of em.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. new repug trick.
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Drum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Amen buff2! nt
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matt819 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
43. I was just about to post the same thought when I saw your one-liner
Has anyone bothered to check if this lunatic really is a democrat? Or is this somehow a recent "conversion"?
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #29
77. to a point you are correct, but
Historically after the civil war the south was went democrat because of Lincoln

which at that time until the civil rights movement represented an extremely bigioted view in the South. That changed in the late fifties and throughout the sixties. In fact the Civil Rights changes that Johnson implemented caused the repuke strategy to shift toward attracting the segregation and discrimination crowd, which is part of the reason that the South shifted from Democrat to repuke

In fact the scorch and burn policy of bushco also included this, which used tatics like push polling in south carolina to trash mccain's family and his African American adopted child

What is extremely amazing is that mccain is now doing the same thing by speaking before institutions of intollerance

The more things change the more they stay the same

The country is more polarized than ever before, and we are going into a cold war era again. Hopefully we can take back Congress to stop this insanity


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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #29
79. He's also posing as an atheist
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. when a white male says this:
Edited on Fri May-12-06 10:25 PM by WindRavenX
"It's time to stop pushing down the white man. We've been discriminated against too long,

He needs to consider suicide in the interests of society.

good fucking grief.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I just hope he hasn't bred
can you imagine the offspring?
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. hopefully gay
Just to piss him off :hi:
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Well, yeah
We all know how discriminated against and powerless the white man is. That's why women and minorities hold the presidency, the vice-presidency,the majority of Congress, and the Supreme Court. That's why so many overpaid CEOs are members of minorities. I mean, as a white woman, there's no way I can go through life without being subjected to minority power.

These people are lunatics, and the Democratic party needs to reject this idiot's insane ravings. He's the kind of nut who causes strife and hatred, and I don't care whether he's Republican or Democrat, he's wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Don't think too long, AL DNC. You know what to do
Cut him loose and denounce him.
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6th Borough Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
69. He has no money. Anyone can register as a Democrat or repub.
I just read a short article on this guy in my local paper (passed on by either a wire service or an other Tribune rag).

He isn't being financially backed by the party apparatus; he ran unsuccessfully as a Libertarian in 2002; he probably just switched party affiliations so he seem more viable...or just to shine a spotlight on his screwed world view.

Either way, there really isn't anything the state or national Democratic Party can do; they aren't aiding him in any way that I know of. I wouldn't pay too much attention to him...call him out on his mental and moral deficiencies, than shut up 'till he fades away...and runs next cycle as a member of the Natural Law party or whatever party he swaps over to next.

I have a feeling that this guy has trouble holding down a job, and feels he has found his new career path, where he is the boss. Don't pay the rent, though.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. Um Larry, better keep an eye on the want-ads. Cause you ain't
gettin' elected to anything.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. JESUS CHRIST! "Historians say"?
> "Historians say about 6 million Jews were slaughtered by the
> Nazis..."


Is this how low our pathetic "journalistic press" has fallen? This is ensconced in the same "he said, she said" nonsense these idiots impose on all their "reports" these days.

It's one thing to do this with, say, "how cold does the weather feel." Next they applied it to global warming and "clear skies." Now it's turning into "Some say millions of Jews were killed by the Nazis."

Is the spherical shape of the Earth the next "disputed" subject?

This is really horrible, and the editor at Newsday who didn't give the blue pencil to "Historians say" ought to be fired.

This is completely unacceptable.
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jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. The reporter cited a source for the statistic
To avoid being flamed by either side, the journalist simply took the safe road.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I'm sorry, but your response doesn't cut it
Look, my friend, you're off base on this. This is a very serious issue.

The inclusion of those two words implies that there might be a legitimate disagreement. And, like I said, such an implication is benign when talking about inconsequential matters. But to bring such an angle into something as horrific as the Nazi death camps is a very dangerous thing.

Believe me, one only has to go down that road a very short distance before the ovens get fired up again.

I'm not saying the writer knew what he was doing when he did that, but it should have jumped out at the editor. I have to assume that either Newsday ran this without looking at it, or they really need to find a competent one.
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jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. But did the writer know the exact number?
I don't know what he was thinking when he was writing it, but I mean in journalism they teach you to be: #1 unbiased and #2 to cite any source of statistics.

Some people may have wanted to know where the writer got that 6 million number. He should have wrote it better, but I understand what he was trying to do.
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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. To a journalist, there is no truth.

Only quotes.

If any other policy were in place, news writing would be no different than op-ed, and abandoning objective journalism would bring society closer to "the ovens getting fired up again" than good-faith efforts to uphold it.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. Doesnt the term 'objective' presume a concrete fact is being expressed ?
Edited on Sat May-13-06 12:53 AM by Trajan
That something is measured and quantifiable above and beyond a verbal statement or a quotation of a feeling ????

Personal sentiments are subjective entities, IE discussions of what a person is thinking: Objectivity would dictate an expectation that personal expressions conform in some way to concrete, measurable facts .... otherwise objectivity doesnt exist ....

In other words: is the object of 'objective journalism' to merely repeat the words of another human being, without consideration of the relationship between those words and concrete facts ? ... or is it considered most proper for 'objective journalism' to simply report what a human being says, even if those words are bald faced lies, or are subjective in nature, and do not conform to recognized facts ?

The internal logic of such assertions is turned on its head, if accurate 'objective' reporting means re-stating subjective opinions, and allowing subjective, and possibly unreasonable assertions to stand, unquestioned, simply to maintain a strict fidelity to what is being said ...

German newspapers in 1939 'objectively' reported that Poland had attacked Germany ..... They reported what they had been told by Nazi propagandists 'objectively' ...

Did they report objective facts ? .... or present objective reporting ? .... both or neither ?

I smell the reek of apologism here ....

I am smelling a rat right here and now .....
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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #50
56. Concrete facts?


"In other words: is the object of 'objective journalism' to merely repeat the words of another human being, without consideration of the relationship between those words and concrete facts ?"

What concrete facts? The point of my post is that to a journalist, there _are no_ concrete facts, especially when something is being disputed. In news writing, you can say "members of Congress met for a vote yesterday" if it's not disputed and it's being used to frame the story, but if something is being disputed, you can never assert the rightness of one side or the other. If someone makes the news by claiming that the sky is green, you can't write that he's wrong and that the sky is indeed blue. You can, of course, quote a meteorologist saying that, but you can never state that someone's assertion is untrue.

And you can stick your suspicion of apologism up your ass. The real problem with this story is that the media is calling this guy a "Democrat," when in reality he's as much a Democrat as Lyndon LaRouche or Fred Phelps.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. There ARE concrete facts
Maybe you need a few more years of school or something. There's a sun, that's a concrete fact. WWII, another concrete fact. Jews were killed, the camps existed. Concrete Fact. 6 million is the estimated figure, another concrete fact. If a lunatic stands on a street corner and talks to the lamp post, it doesn't mean we must objectively consider whether that specific lamp post has developed the ability to talk. And it doesn't mean you need to get an expert to say the lamp didn't talk either. This is exactly what's wrong with journalism today, the idea that we have to listen to lunatics just because there's A LOT of them. You don't have to be so open minded your brains fall out.

How to write up the 6 million Jews? The Holocaust Museum reports that six million Jews were murdered by "the Nazi regime and its collaborators."
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/index.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005143

Of course that would require a journalist who first, knew there was a Holocaust Museum; and second, cared enough about their reporting to take 60 seconds and pick up a quote.

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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #57
65. If journalists can call Nazis liars, they can also call you a liar.


"If a lunatic stands on a street corner and talks to the lamp post, it doesn't mean we must objectively consider whether that specific lamp post has developed the ability to talk."

On a personal level, it's right and valid to say that the guy talking to the lamp post is crazy. Let's say that Mr. Crazy is arrested for loitering while talking to the lamp post, and he files a complaint against the police department, saying that the lamp post was lonely and he was trying to keep it company. If you're doing anything but writing a news story about the incident, you should of course assume that Mr. Crazy is crazy and speak of him accordingly. But if you _are_ writing a news story about the dispute, you cannot make a lie of one side's opinion. Holocaust deniers are ignorant cretins and they should be rebuffed and ridiculed whenever they appear, but it is not a reporter's place to do that. Because what's to stop reporters from writing that "President Bush's ranch is under a virtual siege from the crazy nutso liberal Cindy Sheehan?" Journalists have been breaking the rule I describe above on a regular basis for the last five years, and they've almost always done so in favor of the neocons. A return to objective journalism would be a big step toward turning the country around.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Nope, you've got it backwards
Journalists have been intimidated by the right wing and are consequently writing stories that treat craziness and fact as two equal sides of a coin.

Nobody would write a news story that said "Psychotics say lamp posts are wondeful company." Yet, that's what journalists do with holocaust deniers and every other kind of nut in the world. Which is what leads them to write stuff like, "President Bush's ranch is under virtual siege by Cindy Sheehan, who is a leader of fringe anti-war radical groups." Which actually has been in straight news stories on many occasions. It's worse when they actually use "the White House says" when they know the White House is telling a bold faced lie.

"Historians say" is lazy journalism, pure and simple. There's no excuse for it.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
72. ...plus a few million non-Jews.
If you're attacking the piece for inaccuracy, why not mention THAT fact also, which often gets ommitted?

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cmkramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
70. typhus
I knew a guy who politically was liberal/left but for some reason he never believed the Holocaust happened either. He did believe that Hitler had rounded up Jews and others for concentration camps but he said there were no executions or other atrocities going on. He said the victims all died of typhus and other diseases. According to him, there were all sorts of books and documentation that proved this but they couldn't get through the corporate media.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
47. s/d
Edited on Sat May-13-06 12:40 AM by brentspeak
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Charlie Brown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. ...
Edited on Sat May-13-06 12:44 AM by Charlie Brown
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
51. This guy just recently declared himself "a Democrat"
As another poster pointed out above, it turns out he was a Libertarian candidate for Alabama AG in 2002. Nobody in the Alabama state Democratic party even knows who is; he simply went to his town hall and filled out a form to declare himself a "Democrat", and then added his name to the Democratic primary for Alabama AG.



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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
53. That guy is a TOTAL whack job!
Edited on Sat May-13-06 12:59 AM by TheGoldenRule
:crazy:

Um, what about THE PROOF from all those photographs of the dead at the concentration camps?! Or how about THE PROOF of personal accounts from the survivors and from the U.S. soldiers who liberated the camps?!

Recently, I read Elie Wiesels' "Night" after waiting a few months for it from the library. It was shocking and absolutely heartbreaking. How can people deny the very obvious, tragic and horrific truth of the Holocaust?!

:cry:

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onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #53
60. Eisenhower predicted the rise of the Holocaust deniers...
That's exactly why he called in the Army film/photo units as soon as U.S. forces began liberating the Nazi death camps.

You can probably find his exact quote with a Google, but it was something like this: "Fifty years from now, people will be saying that the stories of these death camps were just propaganda. We need to have this documented, and RIGHT NOW."

One famous film that was captured: Gen. George Patton...not exactly a wimp...standing in one of the camps near a pile of corpses with tears running down his face.

BTW, one of the first Holocaust deniers was a crazy Catholic priest, Father Dennis Fahey. He started denying the Holocaust as soon as WWII ended. He got quite a bit of publicity by associating himself with another famous anti-Semitic right-wing kook, the "radio priest" Father Charles Coughlin.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. Funny how Ike seems more like a Dem than many Dems do now, huh?
To paraphrase what a friend of mine recently emailed me: Meo Liberals are the old Republicans.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #53
73. I'm sure some will call him an "atheist whackjob" next.
Interesting that Raw Story ran that hateful peice by that hack writer who happened to be Jewish, and now this alleged Dem - who happens to be an atheist - says this madness.

Now, I don't think they're at all connected, I just find the coincidental synchronicity interesting.

But yeah, the guy's loony. Or really, really in denial.

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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
59. Alabama candidate for AG disputes Holocaust, is coming to NJ
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- A Democratic candidate for Alabama attorney general denies the Holocaust occurred and said Friday he will speak this weekend in New Jersey to a "pro-white" organization that is widely viewed as being racist.

Larry Darby concedes his views are radical, but he said they should help him win wide support among Alabama voters as he tries to "reawaken white racial awareness" with his campaign against Mobile County District Attorney John Tyson.

The state Democratic chairman, Joe Turnham, said the party became aware of some of Darby's views only days ago and was considering what to do about his candidacy.

"Any type of hatred toward groups of people, especially for political gain, is completely unacceptable in the Alabama Democratic Party," said Turnham.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj--alabamaattorneyge0512may12,0,1010796.story?coll=ny-region-apnewjersey
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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
63. As a "yellow dog" Democrat this is one dog
that must be rabid and needs to be put down. I would hold my nose and not vote for AG.
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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
68. Larry Darby was a funny sight once.
I had the misfortune of doing a lot of research at the Alabama Department of History and Archives during the Roy Moore idol crap. It is hard to park near the Capitol without having to pay money and especially when the side streets were then undergoing repair. The crazies came out of the woodwork. I would be waiting on a carton of microfilm or papers and go outside for some fresh air and a smoke and a coke every hour or so. There was Darby, looking like Truman Capote and some of the grandest freaks one could imagine right down the street. I kept expecting glossalalia and a batch of snakes at any moment. It was a tiresome burden on the people who were trying to do work around Downtown. But seeing Truman was a choice plum.
I had not thought of him for at least three years now until I saw his fat little face on the Alabama PBS show "For the Record" the other night. He was on fire! Claiming that the ADL was involved in the 3 students in Bham who are indicted on the recent church burnings and other raving antisemitic remarks. Somehow he believes that Morris Dees (my old neighbor Potok's boss) at the SPLC is a Communist and involved in church bombings too....
I was shocked when the host said he was the DEMOCRATIC candidate for AG!
Now as a member of the Loyal Fifth District (that's from the Tennessee state line on across the River) encompassing Florence, Muscle Shoals, Huntsville, Decatur, etc. it is a different place there. So once again my theory is correct: something happens to people the further south of the Tennessee River they go in Alabama. Darby and Moore are proof of it!
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LuckyStrykes Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #68
80. He Came to My Office
campaigning a few weeks ago and dropped off his campaign literature. I didn't read it until days after he left but one of his objectives is to "protect the rights of European Americans."
He comes from the town I work in and people say he was strange as a child...
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
81. *considering* what to do about his candidacy?!
If the answer is not already OBVIOUS to the Alabama Democrats then every nonwhite Democrat should go Independent and vote third party next election. :wtf:
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
82. I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm acquainted with Larry Darby
I've met and talked and eaten with him several times at American Atheists conventions. He is a former state directer. His racist views were never evident in our conversations, though his ah, anger or dislike of some American Atheists personnel and decisions of the board were quite evident. I tend to think of him as a rather negative personality type. When he started hosting Holocaust Deniers I e-mailed him asking him why, and he responded to the effect that I was being misled by the media and many experts agreed with him, blah, blah, blah. After that, I just tended to think of him as an irrelevant annoyance and embarrassment to the atheist community.

Now, he just creeps me out. Please don't think he speaks for all atheists.

-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
83. Protesters heckle white supremacist
http://www.northjersey.com/print.php?qstr=ZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY5MzUwMjYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkz

ELMWOOD PARK -- About 20 activists held a peaceful protest Saturday outside a meeting hall that featured a controversial Democratic candidate for Alabama attorney general who has denied that the Holocaust occurred.

Larry Darby was the guest speaker at the National Vanguard New Jersey's monthly meeting at the Juvenile Order of United Automechanics (JOUAM) Hall, the nationwide group's local chapter headquarters. The National Vanguard, which describes itself as a white nationalist group, is a splinter group of the white supremacist organization, National Alliance.

Darby is general counsel for the Atheist Law Center in Montgomery, Ala. He has denied the Holocaust took place, telling The Associated Press that "there was no systematic extermination of Jews" and claiming most Jews during World War II died of typhus.

Alabama's Democratic chairman, Joe Turnham, has said the party became aware of Darby's radical views only in the past few days and is reexamining his candidacy.


BTW - "The Atheist Law Center" was founded by Darby and is run by Darby. Listing himself as "general counsel" was done so he could run for office, can't recall the specifics, sorry.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
84. Are you kidding?
Edited on Mon May-15-06 06:15 PM by genieroze
In this day and age. All those poor Jews rolling over in their graves for something that didn't happen. :sarcasm:

Edited to add: Stay the hell out of NJ.
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