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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:40 AM
Original message
Experts say NSA database of phone records may be put to use as part of 'so
Experts say NSA database of phone records may be put to use as part of 'social network analysis'

http://ap.morningsun.net/pstories/technology/20060511/3869549.shtml

BOSTON — If the National Security Agency is indeed amassing a colossal database of Americans' phone records, one way to use all that information is in "social network analysis," a data-mining method that aims to expose previously invisible connections among people.

Social network analysis has gained prominence in business and intelligence circles under the belief that it can yield extraordinary insights, such as the fact that people in disparate organizations have common acquaintances. Companies can buy social networking software to help determine who has the best connections for a particular sales pitch.

So it did not surprise many security analysts to learn Thursday from USA Today that the NSA is applying the technology to billions of phone records.

"Who you're talking to often matters much more than what you're saying," said Bruce Schneier, a computer security expert and author of "Beyond Fear: Thinking Sensibly About Security in an Uncertain World."

<snip>

One effort in that direction, the Pentagon's infamous Total Information Awareness program, was technically shuttered by Congress, but the government still can access copious data from the private sector.

Even if the NSA's surveillance went no further than the NSA's access to phone billing records, it clearly would raise hackles.

...more...

TIA "technically shuttered" but still alive?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. NSA--the specter of TIA in the living present.

TIA "technically shuttered" but still alive?
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Guilty by association is what they are going to do
They will look at where you called & who you called and if one of those people you called turn out to be a criminal or enemy of the regime, you will be charged as an accomplice.

The US is sounding more and more communistic everyday.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. not communistic - totalitarian
http://www.historyguide.org/europe/lecture10.html

Modern totalitarian regimes made their appearance with the total effort required by the Great War. The reason for this is quite simple -- war required all institutions to subordinate their interests to one objective at all costs: victory. The individual had to make sacrifices and so their freedoms, whatever they might have been, were constantly reduced by increasing government intervention. The invisible hand of Adam Smith had to be replaced by the visible hand. Governments could not longer remain idle hoping that some "laissez-faire" mentality would carry them through the day. No. Governments had to intervene and the great event which made this notion of intervention a necessity, was the Great War.

Beyond this, the crucial experience of World War I was Lenin, the Bolsheviks and the Russian Civil War. Lenin had shown how a dedicated minority -- the Bolsheviks -- could make a dedicated effort and achieve victory over a majority. This was as true of the Revolution as much as it was of the Civil War when the Bolsheviks overcame the White Army who were numerically superior. Lenin also clearly demonstrated how institutions and human rights might be subordinated to the needs of a single party and a single leader. So, Lenin provided a model for a single party dictatorship, i.e. the Bolsheviks. It was Lenin, who provide the model for Stalin as well as Hitler and Mussolini.

Totalitarian regimes -- thanks to technology and mass communications -- take over control of every facet of the individual's life. Everything is subject to control -- the economy, politics, religion, culture, philosophy, science, history and sport. Thought itself becomes both a form of social control as well as a method of social control. Those of you familiar with Orwell's premonitionary novel, Nineteen Eighty-Four, should have an easy time understanding this development.

The totalitarian state was based on boundless dynamism. Totalitarian society was a fully mobilized society, a society constantly moving toward some goal. Which begs the question: Is democracy the means to an end or the end itself? Paradoxically, the totalitarian state never reached its ultimate goal. However, it gave the illusion of doing so. As soon as one goal was reached, it was replaced by another. Such was the case in Stalin's Russia. Stalin implemented a series of Five Year Plans in an effort to build up the industrial might of the Soviet Union. Production quotas were constantly announced well before they had been reached in order to supply the illusion that the Five Year Plan was working. But before the Five Year Plan had run its course, another Five Year Plan was announced. Hopefully, you can intuit the psychological necessity of such an act on Stalin's part.

In the end, totalitarianism meant a "permanent revolution," an unfinished revolution in which rapid and profound change imposed from above simply went on forever. Of course, a permanent revolution also means that the revolution is never over. The individual is constantly striving for a goal which has been placed just a hair out of reach. In this way, society always remains mobilized for continual effort. The first example of such a permanent revolution the "revolution from above," instituted by Joseph Stalin in 1927 and 1928. After having suppressed his enemies on both the left and the right, as well as the center, Stalin issued the "general party line." Anyone who deviated from that line was condemned to either exile or execution -- in most cases, execution. Stalin's aim was to create a new kind of society and a new human personality to inhabit that society: socialist man and socialist woman -- Homo Sovieticus. At the same time, a strong army would have to be built as well as a powerful industrial economy. Once everything was owned by the State, Stalin believed, a new kind of human personality would emerge. The Soviets under Stalin were by no means successful. Just the same, the Soviets did build a new society, one whose basic outlines survived right down to the late 1980s.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Communism is an economic thing. This is fascist totalitarianism.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. True, I was thinking more along the lines of the way Russia operates
And the mind block associated it with communism.

But never the less, they are headed down that same road, where the government controls who you are associated with and what you do in your life.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. The info will come in handy when they start roundinig up Americans
All of the spyinig is laying the groundwork for the next step.
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maine_raptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
5. You never really thought it went away, did you?
Come'on...........no way, no how, was something like a pesky ol'Congress goina stop Poindexter. Hell, he went around them in Iran-Contra, and he did another end-run this time.

Oh and want to get a Freeper REALLY upset about this NSA Biz? Just explain cross-referencing databases and then remind him of that Federal Firearms form he had to fill out when he bought that shiny new shotgun last fall.

They sure don't like it if you threaten their guns!!!!!!!!!!
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. That's the shoe laces of the next shoe to fall
They are up to far more.

Also if you make unexpected purchases -- your credit card company will block any further credit purchases until you call up and ask permission to continue using your card (prove that you are really who you say you are -- and are the owner of the card). They have extremely sophisticated software to flag purchases that are not part of your habitual buying patterns.

I know -- I just went through this last night in order to pay for my room with a credit card.

And this has happened before -- this has an upside -- they did catch that someone had stolen our credit card number and cloned a card and was racking up charges. We didn't have to pay -- and quickly got replacement cards.

But -- it is like having parents watching for any signs of unusual behavior patterns in order to spot drug abuse.

I suspect that all of this info is also going into the NSA data banks --

The NSA can flag movement and connections -- and spot unusual behavior. This isn't for finding the "terrorists" but for controlling the behavior (abnormal behavior -- in their minds) of American citizens.

Yes you can pay using cash only -- but there are requirements that you show an ID to check into motels. Even with cash only payments -- I'll bet that the NSA is finding ways to crack that one. Terrorists (domestic or foreign) have probably already figured out the cash only way of slipping under the radar.

My guess is that the object is to track Americans -- and this sort of intrusion into our lives is frankly un-American.

I'm on the road so I watched Politically Incorrect -- and the host said that he was going to fly the original US flag with 13 stars to remind everyone the reasons why our country was founded in the first place. I doubt very much that the founding fathers would have approved of NSA data mining.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. They would loathe the "New Pearl Harbor" little king George...
And all his cronie$, no doubt.

OTOH, if you can do without any CC, I recommend you go ahead, because they'll know every little thing you do: they're putting microscopic "smart" transmitters in them these days. I heard som people "cook" their cards in their microwave ovens to "destroy" the nanochips in there... Not a good idea (fires...).

Just "cut" them and do away with, I say. Plus, "they" won't profit from "no CC me." I've had enough of 'em, 'stards.
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. Toledo Blade poll-
Toledo Blade poll-

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

How concerned are you with the Bush administration's efforts at domestic intelligence gathering?

Very- 56.8% (was 67.9% about an hour ago)

Somewhat- 6.8%

Not Very- 36.3%

Number of votes cast- 278
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. this whole idea will come back to bite them when it is used against them..
g
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. So they ARE doing DATA MINING - Bush Lied Again!
If the National Security Agency is indeed amassing a colossal database of Americans' phone records, one way to use all that information is in "social network analysis," a data-mining method that aims to expose previously invisible connections among people.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. The Bushies PRIVATIZE everything. Do you think they won't seel this data?
There's nothing secret to this bunch. This wouldn't be any more or less sacred than everything else they have privatized, sold out, or simply given away to Halliburton in no-bid contracts.

Your personal data and phone calls for sale to the highest bidder.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. Didn't bush* put that lying Ray-gun crook/jailbird Poindexter in charge
of the TIA? Looks like they are still hard at work doing something devious and damn right illegal. Bet there is lots of illegal stuff going on beneath our noses when Cheney is in some undisclosed location. I would really like to know what he is doing or what he has already done.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. 7 degrees of seperation, you and the terrorist Kevin Bacon.
I wrote about this a few days ago that wired news had this article

This is also going on in your e-mails, telephone calls, mail, web browsing, web sites, etc
they are data mining your social and economic life and establishing a pattern of guilt or "interest" by association.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. It didn't take long until marketers thought of making a buck off of it
They probably had a plan on how to insert advertising on the Abu Grahib photos.

Hey, those photos got like global reach. Totally.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. Sounds like Black's book about the Nazis and the IBM Data Base.
"Black's book, which revives a controversial debate about IBM's dealings with Hitler's Germany, paints a picture of a statistic-crazy Nazi regime bent on locating, identifying and classifying those it perceived as threatening.

The book also says that IBM, as the primary supplier of database equipment to Germany, helped this drive, not out of sympathy for Nazi policies but rather from a desire to lock up the global market.

According to published reports, Black's book also details what are described as the increasingly stormy relations between IBM and Dehomag, its German subsidiary. At the time, Germany was IBM's No. 2 sales territory, despite an international economic boycott.

Black also says that the tabulating machinery proliferated throughout the German government and its business community during the 1930s, allowing Hitler's Third Reich to cross-index the names, addresses, genealogy charts and bank accounts of its citizens."

http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/7417.html
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