We're walking, talking toxic waste dumps

[TechBear_Seattle]

We're walking, talking toxic waste dumps
High levels of chemicals found in 10 volunteers

By SUSAN PHINNEY, P-I REPORTER

Eight months ago, 10 Washingtonians volunteered blood, urine and hair samples to the Washington Toxics Coalition to be tested for eight classes of chemicals.

The results are in, and they are not pretty.

It wouldn't be kind to say that these 10 are walking toxic waste dumps, but their levels of phthalates (found in such diverse products as shower curtains and fragrances), PBDEs (found in flame retardants, mattresses and furniture), mercury, pesticides, lead and other chemicals were high enough to make both scientists and subjects sit up and take notice.

All 10 tested positive for five to seven of those eight categories. Their profiles and test results have been published in a Pollution in People report, a project of the Toxic-Free Legacy Coalition of Washington State.

The article continues at http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/271370_toxics24.html and believe me, it ain't a comfortable fluff piece.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. Other products to avoid?

Foods that aren't organic, and products made of vinyl, such as toys, shower curtains and food packaging.


That should be easy. :sarcasm:

[kerouac]

19. Use cotton/canvas shower curtains.

We used to buy cheap plastic/vinyl shower liners until about 2 years ago. One day we asked ourselves why on Earth we were tolerating a smelly, cheap product like that. Now we use a cotton canvas shower curtain as a liner, and a cotton shower curtain for the outside. The kicker is that their easy to wash, look great, and don't smell like a plastic factory.

We also added a shower filter to reduce chlorine, etc from the shower. My hair never looked so good and my skin isn't dry anymore.

-K

[donsu]

2. extremely important - thanks for posting

there could be a new type of business. where the public could be tested for pollutents and living areas tested for pollutents - at an afordable price.

there are few labs, etc. women can't even be tested for mercury before or during pregnancy. which should be number one on the list.

[Danieljay]

5. yes, they can, before pregnancy ..... using a chelating substance..

but not during pregnancy. You can minimize your exposure to toxins in food and the environment and support healthy elimination through nutritional detoxification.

[Danieljay]

3. yep. My gf and I offer Detoxification workshops here in Portland..

to help deal with this very thing. We are, by the way, starting another on June 7th. Its absolutely amazing to see the transformation that occurs when you go through the class. It's a 3 week program but we meet four times to support one another through the process and educate you about what's going on. Most importantly there are many foods you CAN eat and it includes a great supplement to help support the detoxification process without starving you or damaging your metabolism. When you're ready to eliminate this from your body, go through the process. You'll be glad you did.

I had reflux disease and food related allergies and was on two prescription meds before I started the process. I've been off both meds for over 4 months now and feel great.

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. With all due respect

All of the actual scientific evidence I have seen and heard about regarding "detoxification" programs for removing environmental poisons like lead, PCBs, etc are all a bunch of new age hooey. Certainly if there were any truth to such regiments, someone from among the volunteers -- the surgeon, perhaps, or the occupational and environmental health nurse -- would have been regularly a part of such a program. And I would be very surprised to find out that volunteer Denis Hayes, one of the founders of Earth Day, has not gone through "detox" programs several times; he still has mercury poisoning.

Until I see peer-reviewed studies, I think the best bet is avoidance and working to end the pollution.

[Dora]

9. You're funny.

"With all due respect," and "new age hooey," in the same breath.

Insincere much? :rofl:

[Teaser]

12. Who says that's insincere?

Because s/he is giving it all the respect it's due: none.

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. "with all due respect" is ALWAYS followed up with an insult,

usually personal.

[lumberjack_jeff]

38. With all due respect, that phrase is always followed up with..

Something that might be construed as an insult.

Correcting someone's factual inaccuracies is not necessarily meant as an insult.

[TechBear_Seattle]

16. I use that to mean...

That I am going to disagree but will try to do so in a respectful way. You are right: my use of "new age hooey" was not as respectful as I could have been.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. "new age hooey"

That's a lot more respectful than what I was about to call it.

[Teaser]

11. Please cut out the science.

These scientists today with their bell-bottom pants and their big ideas!

Next you'll dream up something like an inverse square law or something. Come back when you have some real proof, like an infomercial.

[noonwitch]

15. There are diets for lead poisoning, to help the body get rid of it

Doctors prescribe them for kids who get lead poisoning. It basically is a diet lower on meat and higher on green, leafy vegetables. Lots more kids get exposed to lead in medium to large sized cities than anyone might think. It's not just from paint, in Detroit, it's in the ground in areas where they used to smelt lead. Kids run through the yard barefoot or play in the sandbox or the sprinkler, and they could get exposed. Parents don't always know what neighborhoods are affected, too.

[TechBear_Seattle]

25. Do such diets reduce mercury? PCBs? Pesticides? Phthalates?

One of the huge fallacies of pseudo-science is to take something that has limited effectiveness in a specific case and generalize to the point where it becomes a panacea for all possible cases.

With regards to lead poisoning, diet works by providing a supply of the calcium, zinc and iron that lead tends to replace in the body. It is useful for growing children, as it helps to prevent further use of lead by the body and speeds up the normal waste removeal. It will not remove lead that is already a part of bone and tissue.

Many "detox" regimens make use of chelation therapy, ie the use of substances that bond with heavy metals such as lead, arsenic, mercury and plutonium. Chelation therapy, like diet for lead poisoning, has limited effectiveness in specific cases. It will remove "free" metals, but has little to no effect on metals that are part of tissue. At best, chelation therapy can be used long term, over many years, to remove heavy metals once the bone, muscle, nerves, etc that contain it are recycled by the body. Problem is, proven chelation agents are toxic in and of themselves, making long term therapy a matter of "What will prove worse, the poisoning or the cure?" Items presented as chelation agents by "alternative medicine" proponents -- sulfur compounds, onions, garlic and other substances -- have no scientific evidence backing them up in such a use.

Lastly, there are a great many substances for which there is no known way to remove from the body. Once DDT or PCB enters you, that's it. Anyone who says otherwise is going against considerable medical research on the matter which is why I said and will say again: Until I see peer-reviewed research from a reputable source, I will call any "detox" program which claims to handle such substances with a great deal of skepticism and even derision. Science is not a matter of religious faith.

[Danieljay]

26. ahhh, then screw it. Your right. No evidence. Nothing works and

we are all screwed without peer reviewed research. :sarcasm:

Listen, I understand what you are trying to say, but please let me remind you of something; there are a hell of a lot of diseases and medical conditions that have been treated and even cured way before the peer reviewed research supported it.

Let's have a compromise here. You continue, if you actually do, working to eliminate pollution from the environment and reviewing peer reviewed research. And I, will continue to educate people about those pollutants, how they can avoid them, and how they can eliminate 'many' of those pollutants through a nutritionally supported detoxification process.

We all win this way. Deal?

[chopper]

30. well hey

look man, if its supposed to be medicine, there better be data about it somewhere. i sure as hell am not going to try some wacky pseudo-medical diet or procedure w/o out some hard data backing it up. otherwise you might as well be selling me crystals.

[Dora]

33. Good call.

:thumbsup:

[TechBear_Seattle]

35. There have been a great many more quacks who did only harm

Why the objections to seeing documented support for claims that a "detox" regimen works? And why should I be ridiculed when asking to see evidence for claims that go against research that has been done?

[noonwitch]

40. I never claimed that the diet did get any of that other stuff out

But it is a healthy diet and it can't hurt in other situations, too. It is a good general principle of diet that eating lots of vegetables and less meat helps your body clear out it's system in general, that's why they suggest it for pregnant women, too.

They need to do more research into what will either prevent the body from absorbing toxins or what will get rid of them once they are in the body, for sure. We also need to stop putting all this crap into the food and water supplies, by reducing pollution. But for the people affected by it right now, you work with what you've got available and do the best you can until a better method comes along.

[TechBear_Seattle]

44. We are mostly in agreement, then

The research that has been done indicates that the sense of wellness that comes from staying on a "detox" diet comes mostly from eating quality food and avoiding the crap that makes up so much of the typical American diet. And you are right: a healthy diet is a healthy diet. Any reduction in toxins are the result of not consuming the toxins in the first place, and not the result of the food removing toxins.

I agree that people who are affected by toxins right now should do what they can; I disagree that going on a "detox" diet will do any good. Either you eat healthy or you do not; a special diet that you stick with for only a few days or a few weeks will have no long term impact if you return to eating crap afterwards. As I see it, people who peddle "detox" diets and regimens are little different than the shysters who peddle sawdust and ground-up bones as "the miracle cure for cancer that Big Medicine is conspiring to keep from you."

[Danieljay]

48. bingo..food doesn't remove toxins. Good nutrition supports the body

in its own detoxifation process. Its called a healthy liver. Its what I've been trying to say here. I think the issue at hand is your understanding of "detox diet". We aren't peddling any miracles in our program, only transformed health. Each person decides after 4 weeks how they will adjust their life and change their dietary and physical behavior to support the body in avoiding and eliminating toxins. this is accomplished by teaching about

The natural detoxification process
Food addictions and brain chemistry
The physiology of stress and ways to minimize its impact
Optimal exercise and overcoming obstacles
Food allergies and intolerances

Its all good and its scientifically supported. As a phenomenal physician, my partner wouldn't offer it if she didn't believe in it.

[Danieljay]

46. yes, organic raw food diets can reduce exposure to all of those things...

and the human body has a marvelous capacity to eliminate toxins from the body if supported nutritionally. There is science behind this. Yes there are some substances that aren't reduced or eliminated by nutritional detox's alone but there are other proven methods as several here have already had personal experience with.

There are two componants to any detox program. Reduce exposure. Enhance elimination. The body must be supported with proper diet and nutrition. The liver has a remarkable way of handling the rest but can't do so if it continues to be bombarded through exposure or supported nutritionally through good nutrition. The body is continuously detoxifying, its why we have a liver. What is so hard to believe that reducing exposure and giving the body the proper nutrients (anti-oxidants, amino acids, etc) it needs to enhance the process.

There are too many environmental pollutants. Tons are released into our enviroment every year. We could stop all pollution right now and still have a problem so that alone doesn't solve the issue at hand. Toxic bodies. We therefore have to strive for optimal health and nutrition so that the body can do what needs to do. As for the heavy metals..chelating help but comes with its share of side effects if not properly monitored and supplemented to make up for the deficiencies that might result.

Its called a balanced approach and neither should be discarded for the lack of 'peer reviews'. How can anyone argue with that?

[susanna]

76. Thanks for pointing that out...

I live in an old neighborhood just outside Detroit. One of my greatest pleasures in life is going barefoot, but I do not do it around here. I rarely see neighborhood kids without shoes as well. It's just not safe, or might not be, and most people modify their behavior accordingly.

Now, my parents live in a lead-free zone about 35 miles north of Detroit (former Native American land, never any industry due to swampy conditions). There, I ditch the shoes. :-)

[uppityperson]

20. People do not store 92# of feces in their colon, by the way

Colon cleansing treatments designed to remove all that backed up feces is a pile of, well, money making unnecessariness. Yes, there have been cases, but I have looked up enough butts, working for a colon doctor, to be able to state that no, most of us do not have stagnating toxic feces filled colons. (Of course, I work in a very librul area of a mostly blue state). I had a friend do one of these colon cleansing and swear that she was in need because of all the mucus that was excreted in her bms. Well, quit irritating your colon with this stuff and it will quit making mucus.

end of rant. off to read article, thanks for the article.

[arikara]

21. With all due respect to your belief in the system

that caused the problem in the first place, my husband who used to work in the mining industry and has many health problems went through an IV treatment called chelation therapy. This is considered an alternative treatment although it has been around for years. His blood was tested before the treatments started and he had dangerously high levels of heavy metals such as arsenic in his system. After several chelation treatments, he was tested again with acceptable results.

Chelation therapy and other detoxification methods are hardly "new age hooey." But you won't find too many allopathic doctors that would recommend it. Most don't even know about it and those that do would probably agree with you and call it "new age hooey". However, my husband was fortunate to have a good doctor that was open to other treatments. As well as western medicine, he practiced Chinese medicine and prescribed herbs and vitamins instead of pharmaceuticals whenever he could. Unfortunately most doctors get their information from the pharmaceutical companies whose salesmen are constantly buzzing around the doctor's offices handing out free lunches, samples and who knows what else to bribe them to poison their patients with their crap. Most doctors don't have a clue about detoxifying a person, instead they keep compounding the problem by overprescribing unnecessary pharmaceuticals.

As for mercury, just how sane is is to use a neurotoxin in people's mouths; and as a preservative for substances that are injected into the body?

[Danieljay]

24. Thank you! And congrats to you and your husband!

Your story speaks volumes and I for one, believe it and have witnessed other examples. Peer review or no peer review, your husband is healthier.

[chopper]

34. asdf

With all due respect to your belief in the system that caused the problem in the first place

that's more than a bit unfair, him being skeptical of a medical procedure sans documentation is in no way a 'belief in the system that caused the problem.' it's just skepticism.

chelation therapy is widely known for cases like your husbands, i.e. heaby metal poisoning. it's been used for a long time for that problem.

thing is, chelation chemicals aren't too nice. i mean, if it leaches out metals, then you start to lose metals that are essential for your body, like iron. chelation chemicals can cause kidney problems and generally screw with you.

in your husbands case, it was no doubt done under strict medical supervision, and any side effects of the therapy were no doubt far worse than heavy metal poisoning.

but using it on regular people in some new-age 'you have too much X in your system. take this and it'll all go away' gives me a bit of the shivers.

Unfortunately most doctors get their information from the pharmaceutical companies whose salesmen are constantly buzzing around the doctor's offices handing out free lunches, samples and who knows what else to bribe them to poison their patients with their crap.

actually, i think most doctors get their information from years of school, experience and constant post-degree education and study. sorry, but doctors on the whole aren't anywhere near as lazy or negligent as you make them out to be.

[Danieljay]

36. You might be surprised...

"actually, i think most doctors get their information from years of school, experience and constant post-degree education and study. sorry, but doctors on the whole aren't anywhere near as lazy or negligent as you make them out to be"


My partner, who IS a licensed physician, deals with these people every day. You would be amazed at how ignorant many so called licensed physicians are regarding anything they 'didn't' learn about in medical school, and how easily influenced they are by pharmaceutical reps. Its quite scary, actually.

I will agree with you about the new age (what I call) woo woo's. That being said, GOOD doctors, whether they be licensed MD's, ND's, or DO's recognize that healing involves much more than their medical school knowledge or a particular pharmaciutical used to treat an illnesses. And those docs that treat lab results rather than patients are unfortunately way too plentiful and do little in terms of healing their patients. There is a huge difference between treating a symptom and assisting the healing of a patient.

I don't recall the poster saying anything about using a new age 'have to much X in your system' healer. The poster used a combination of therapies including allopathic and naturopathic medicine under the supervision of her physician.

[chopper]

57. honey..

my fiancees family is chock-full of doctors. half the people i know are doctors. not that there aren't lazy docs out there, but they are definitely a minority.

as to the poster, i know that her husbands situation was different. he had heavy metal poisoning. but chelation therapy is being recommended by some here for people in the same situation as those in the original article, people w/o heavy metal poisoning. which smacks of new age 'have to much X in your system' healing to me.

[Danieljay]

61. I haven't seen anyone here recommending chelation for any thing other

than mercury. Maybe I overlooked something. Detoxification through reduced exposure, optimal nutrition, and enhanced elimination is what I'm talking about here.

I also never said that doctors were "lazy". I'd be crazy to accuse someone who could handle medical school as lazy. I think I used the term 'ignorant'. Big difference.

There are a LOT of things not taught in medical school and that in no way makes those things any less valid. It does leave many doctors with an inherent belief that if they weren't taught about it, it doesn't exist. In addition to running a practice, my partner is a consulting physician with a testing laboratory who speaks with physicians from all over the country calling and asking her to explain test results on their patients. She is constantly coming home with stories of how in the dark many physicians seem to be regarding anything from hormones to whatever.

I'm sure your family is full of wonderful doctors all of whom keep up with all the latest. No arguments here.

[Danieljay]

23. New Aged Hooey? Removing mercury requires more than the detox

that I am referring to, it involves a chelating process, neither of which (by the way) is new aged hooey. As a matter of fact, the only people I hear calling it new age hooey are the polluters and the pharmaceutical companies who stand to lose the most by studies such as these.

Regardless, my GF happens to be a licensed physician and I'll let her education, my personal experience, and the transformed lives of her patients speak for themselves. Avoidance of pollutants and ending pollution are great ideals to achieve and I support both, but hardly a panacea to optimal health using an organic raw foods diet and detoxing through nutritionally supported elimination. The human body has an amazing compacity to eliminate toxins from the body when supported nutritionally.

Peer reviewed studies are just grand. That being said, I stand by my personal experience as well as the experience of others who have chosen transform their health through the detox process.

[earth mom]

50. You & your girlfriend are doing Good Work-Kudos to both of you!

:applause:

I'm a believer in alternative medicine and get highly annoyed when people start dissing it when they more than likely have never tried it themselves. :eyes:

No doubt the majority of the health industry is threatened by alternative medicine because it is readily available without a doctors visit or a prescription, not to mention affordable. :)

The greed of most of the health industry is extremely offensive to me and I would love to see a gigantic emergence of alternative health care. Especially since most of the health care industry cares not one bit if people loose their life savings and homes to pay for the overpriced treatments and medications they prescribe. :grr:

[BREMPRO]

64. Right on!

and if we had a fair and open market for health care, alternative practitioners would be able to accept health insurance. With real competition (instead of a monopoly)to traditional medicine you'd see the cost of health care drop to reasonable levels and people be able to get the care that suits their lifestyle and beliefs.

[Danieljay]

68. Don't you find it amazing how optimal nutrition, enhanced elimination..

and regular exercise are now be considered "alternative" medicine?

I was on an anti-depressant (zoloft) for nearly 6 years and also had acid-reflux disease and taking prescription and over the counter meds to deal with that. I met my gf, had my neurotransmitters tested, went through a detox, determined my food allergies, began taking pharmaceutical grade supplements and amino acid precursors to neurotransmitter production;

within three to four months I was off the anti-depressants. In addition, I haven't had a symptom of reflux disease in over 4 months, not even a case of heartburn. I am no longer dependent on the pharmaceuticals to manage symptoms and according to my follow up neurotransmitter testing, my neurotransmitter levels (serotonin and dopamine) are way above optimal. My MD, as good as she is, never even metioned testing, wasn't familiar with it, and asks me for copies of the lab results cause she had never heard of such testing.

Good nutrition through dietary and supplements and exercise are "alternative" medicine? You've GOT to be kidding me.

[BREMPRO]

71. Yes, amazing.

I've heard so many stories like yours, with a "health care" system that doesn't want to cure you as much as get you dependent on pharmaceuticals as long as they can. Elimination of toxins, food allergies, good nutrition are not profitable enough for this system and therefore are "alternative". The more I look into this, the more it looks like we are not seen as human beings to cure, as much as line item pharmaceutical vessels for profit.

I had a similar experience with food allergies undiagnosed until i was in my late 20's. Diagnosed with spastic colon, irritable bowel and a half dozen other things that all had meds they wanted to get me hooked on. When i discovered the allergies, with no help from doctors, and eliminated the foods, my symptoms went away.

The alternative practitioners do have costs: herbs, supplements etc.. but the goal is not eternal dependency and prerequisite complicated side effects that encourage more meds (profit) as with western medicine, but optimal health and ultimate cure.

[happydreams]

39. I've been through 30 (3 hour) sessions of chelation therapy

My cadmium and lead levels were off the charts. The effect was very positive greatly improving my stamina, and ability to concentrate.

[faithnotgreed]

47. thats wonderful news & i respect your choice very much

congratulations
were it that everyone was open to the possibiities

[TechBear_Seattle]

62. It doesn't do to be so open minded that your brain falls out

:hi:

[faithnotgreed]

63. i dont get what youre trying to say

not open to alternatives? or just trying to be rude?

[emlev]

65. Could you offer a class via telephone conference call?

I'm not in Portland, but would be interested in the possibility. Would want more info, of course.

[CHICKEN CAPITOL USA]

75. hey- trying to post those "liberal" ideas around here?-with all due respek

not even buddy!
nue aige tree huggin librul commie
!!:sarcasm:

sarcasm off!

Raw vegetarian food helps too-
there's a new movie comming out-sort of like supersize me- a medical doctor monitored progress on several diabetic patients--all went raw vegan--all got completely off insulin in several weeks!!

How bout that!

[northzax]

77. amazing

of course, with adult onset diabetes, you can change a lot of things if you catch it early enough. That's no real suprise. obesity, no exercise and a diet full of processed sugars is going to increase cases of adult-onset diabetes, the reverse is true as well. shocking.

how bout that?

[ramapo]

4. Quite an accomplishment

Just think...in less than 100 years we have managed to poison just about every living creature on the planet.

[UpInArms]

6. words or phrases that will be relegated to the dustbin of history:

good health

and

glacier

[WhiteTara]

17. add fresh air and clean drinking water

oh wait, those have been gone for a long time. Let's see long life and wild life
we can eliminate those too.
:hug: to you UIA

[UpInArms]

27. adding to the list

civil liberties

:pals: right back at you BNL

[AllyCat]

8. Try buying toys for a baby that aren't full of garbage!

I have been removing the outer wrappers of cheese after purchase, buying fragrance free products, avoiding plastic food wrap, and not eating fish (tilapia and wild-caught pacific salmon are about the only ones not full of mercury) for some time now. But I am horrified at the toys people keep buying for our baby, most made in China, where manufacturers do NOT have to follow our toy safety laws to the letter.

One popular wooden toy company "Melissa and Doug" makes everything in China and according to the lady I spoke with on the phone "doesn't use anything in the paints and varnishes that the US says they can't use". That's just the problem! The US allows products made in China to bypass some US regulations and lead in paint is one of them! And everyone can use phthalates in their plastics. Phthalates are known hormone-disrupters.

The only plastic toys I've found that don't have phthalates are a brand made in Germany (these substances are banned in the EU) that escapes me at the moment.

Same goes for pacifiers, bottles, and bottle nipples. Latex ones contain nitrosamines, a known carcinogen and the silicone ones have phthalates. The clear plastic bottles have phthalates. Companies that are refusing to use phthalates are Medela, Gerber, and Evenflo.

And then yesterday, my neighbor had her lawn sprayed for weeds/pests right next to my baby's open window where he was playing in his crib! And she has more dandelions in her yard than we do in ours and we NEVER spray!

[kerouac]

18. I'm with ya...check out this site

I'm with ya.. and that's just the tip of the iceberg. My son is now enjoying his 18th day in this polluted world of ours, and sometimes I'm jealous of the ignorant bliss other parents "enjoy." The more you know, the angrier, sicker, and more depressed you get..

We tried reeeeally hard to find the least toxic 'stuff' in the months before he was born. One of the most disgusting things was learning about what's in our mattresses and furniture. We decided it was worth the extra money to buy him an organic mattress and cradle mattress, and the best ones we found was made by Lifekind -- lifekind.com is their url -- but we bought it from Dax Stores at daxstores.com because shipping was free (fast and courteous support, too).

Gotta go, but thought I'd add mattresses to the list of things to be pissed about...

- K

[Dora]

22. We did the same thing.

When I looked at crib mattresses and saw how even the "nice" mattresses were covered with that nasty perforated vinyl, I shooked my head and said "no way." If I wouldn't want to sleep on it, no way in hell I was going to make our baby sleep on it.

We bought an organic cotton mattress - it was pricey, but it was worth it. We'll sell it to somebody else when he outgrows it someday.

People just don't think about the crap they spend their money on. They'll spend $150 a month for eternity for cable television, but balk at spending $300 for a crib mattress that won't gas off on their baby.

[AllyCat]

29. That's a good analogy

People will spend a fortune on crap I in which I can see no value, then complain they have no money. When it came to our baby, who will spend a huge amount of his early life on this mattress, we went organic, but it took some coaxing to get my husband to agree. Now he understands.

[AllyCat]

28. Which site? Is there a link you had?

Can you believe the mattress thing? I was appalled when I found out that baby mattresses are REQUIRED to have some kind of flame retardant on them, which is a substance chemically similar in action to PCBs which are now banned from kids' products (is it PTBE???). People would ask me why we had to "order" our crib mattress and why it took so long (6 weeks). I explained it was organic cotton/wool and they wanted to know how much ($300). Their chortles stopped when I explained what was in conventional crib mattresses and they were astonished to learn it was legal. And all that foam offgasses formaldehyde, a carcinogen.

Congrats on the new baby! All you can do is your best. I'm just trying to keep exposure to a minimum which is not easy. We used no-VOC paint for his room, a natural wood crib with no finish on it, and I try to stay away from a lot of garbage in my food to make breastmilk less horrible. Although breastmilk has been found to contain a huge number of contaminants due to the crap in our environment. And formula ain't any better. ..

[kerouac]

37. Here's the links again.

Sorry for the delay. Here are the links again:

http://www.lifekind.com

http://www.daxstores.com

It was actually cheaper to order the lifekind mattresses from dax stores because dax doesn't charge shipping once you get over about $100. We spent something like a $100 on a cradle/basinet mattress because the one's that come with cradles/basinettes are so bad it's insulting.

Actually, we went with the natural rubber core (not latex), surrounded by organic cotton batting and organic wool for both our crib mattress and our cradle/basinett mattress. Apparently, wool is naturally fire-retardant and water repellent. Not only is it healthier, but he'll have less chance of getting that flat spot on the back of his head. Both products were so wonderful, I wanted to sleep on them myself. Very good workmanship. I highly recommend them.

My wife and I have always been pretty good at watching what we eat, but we went about 95% organic once we starting discussing having a baby. Organic meat is a bit expensive and harder to find, so we only buy meat without antibiotics, hormones, cage-free, veggie fed, etc.. My wife ate the absolute best food and drank filtered water before, during, and after (she's breastfeeding now) -- she ate so well, that I think that's why the little bugger came in at over 10 pounds!

People actually scoff at me about eating organic or going the extra mile to look into what in what I'm buying.. I find it mind boggling. How is tainted food normal and "clean" food wierd? As far as I'm concerned, organic food shouldn't be labeled at all. NON-organic food should have big labels that say "contains poison" instead.

One last thing. About a month before delivery, I looked into plants that filter household crap out of the air, made sure they weren't poisonous for dogs, cats, or people, and loaded our house up with them. Not only do plants add a nice 'alive' quality to the house, but they help remove the nasty stuff that comes out of your walls, furniture, whatever -- and you don't have to replace a filter :).

-K

[AllyCat]

42. Which plants did you find?

We ended up buying a crib mattress from Satara and didn't have to pay shipping. It came in at about $305 after tax.

I'm trying to be really careful what I eat and if I have to buy something not organic, I avoid what I call the big 3: artificial food dyes, trans-fatty acids, and high fructose corn syrup, in addition to what I already avoided because they made me sick: artificial flavors and preservatives, especially BHA and BHT, or anything with a benzene ring (sodium benzoate is a big one). It takes me forever to shop to figure out what's in everything.

[Dora]

31. Introduce your neighbor to corn gluten meal.

Spreading organic corn gluten meal in a lawn will prevent seed germination in weeds (and other plants) and it also provides a nice slow nitrogen boost to lawns. It's an excellent weed preventer - it just needs spreading twice a year - once in fall and once in spring before the weeds start popping up. It's important to keep it out of vegetable/flower beds however if you're gardening from seed. It has no affect on plants already growing.

People talk all day long about the perils of drug use, but are so blind to their own chemical dependencies in every day life. :(

[catzies]

53. That's very interesting, where do you find corn gluten meal?

I've never heard of it before.

[Dora]

67. CGM: Corn Gluten Meal sources.

I first learned about CGM in one of the organic gardening books we publish. I've also tried straight cornmeal, and I think it works too, but the CGM is probably more effective.

I buy it at The Natural Gardener here in Austin. This is what their website has to say about it (www.thenaturalgardeneraustin.com ):

**
Corn Gluten
Be sure to pick some Corn Gluten for organic "weed & feed." You can apply Corn Gluten as a pre-emergent for weeds, It will prevent weed seed (or any seed) germination. It will not kill established weed. Corn Gluten is also a 9-0-0 fertilizer and great for the early spring lawn feeding. Corn gluten is not a toxic weed killer but an actual by-product of corn processing. Corn gluten is used as a food supplement for dogs, cats and livestock. For Lawns you will apply with a drop spreader set for 10 pounds per 500 square feet. For Gardens apply 2 pounds per 100 square feet and work into the top inch of soil. Please remember, you will not want to plant any type of seeds in these areas for 60 days. We have 40 pound bags of Corn Gluten.
**



Here's a link from the Iowa State website about corn gluten meal sources: http://www.techtransfer.iastate.edu/en/for_industry/tec...

If you don't want to pay shipping for a 40lb bag I don't blame you. Any nursery that stocks organic gardening products should carry corn gluten meal. You might also be able to find it at a feed supply.

[catzies]

73. Thanks for the info n/t

[Dora]

66. self-delete

[colorado_ufo]

60. And dandelions are good to eat - if they're not sprayed!

Very high in Vitamin A and fiber. The flowers can also be made into dandelion wine (although it takes a lot of 'em!).

[Teaser]

10. Good. I expect my superpowers any day now

Man...I hope I get to turn into rock, like The Thing.

[Baclava]

14. Take away my coffee and cigs...

...and you'll see a real monster.

Go smell your own assholes, freaks.

[AnOhioan]

41. Scary, and tragic

I read a Greenpeace release awhile back that indicated that a frightening number of children are born each year with significant amounts of man-made chemicals already present in their blood.

The following quote came from the referenced website......

"So great is our exposure that unborn children can be exposed to over 100 man-made industrial chemicals while still in the womb"

http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/contentlookup.cfm?ucidparam=20060508131609


I have no problem believing the statement, after all, many corporations live by the bottom line and tend to ignore the problems they create with the production of "New and Improved" brands which contain very little that is found in nature.

"Better Living through Chemistry" is not just a cute ad phrase...it is a lie foisted on the populace in order to enrich corporate executives and share holders.

I find the entire concept disgusting and shameful.

That is why I tend to be very critical of the latest new cleaning product or shampoo etc. The manufacturers of such crap do not care about the end user aside from convincing them to throw away their hard earned cash on products which are not healthy nor needed.

End of rant

[TechBear_Seattle]

43. I remember reading back in the early to mid 80s...

I read an essay in high school by a leading environmentalist (don't recall the name, sorry) on the subject of cannibalism.

He started his argument that "long pork" is the ideal food for humans, as it already contains most of the nutrients the human body needs. He then stated that, social and religious objections aside, cannibalism would never be accepted in America.

Using recent toxicology studies and published federal guidelines, he demonstrated that the levels of heavy metals such as lead and mercury, pesticides such as DDT, preservatives like sodium nitrite and BHT, and other environmental toxins greatly exceeds FDA allowances. In fact, under recently enacted national environmental protection laws, human bodies should be treated as toxic waste. He furthered his thesis by pointing out a move in California (eventually enacted, I believe) to have crematoriums equipped with the same filters required by coal burning generators.

I don't expect things have gotten any better in the last 20 years.

[1956]

45. I couldn't agree more

And for the other naysayers above, the medical community are mostly trained by the drug companies to push drugs and have no actual interest in curing patients. They are trained to make our bodies more toxic, big profits you see. The naysayers of the natural approach should read, "The Cures They don't want you to know about". I try not to go to a doctor. I visit the health food store.

[TechBear_Seattle]

58. BS conspiracy theories

All doctors, everywhere, for the last hundred years or so, are all complicit in a vast conspiracy. All doctors, that is, except a small handful of brave people with their own profit motive selling patent medicines and who, amazingly enough, have absolutely no background in biological science much less medicine.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[Danieljay]

69. oh for effs sake, techbear...open your mind a little.

How is this attitude serving you or anyone else?

You make some good points that I have no argument with and I respect your opinion. That being said, What do you stand to lose by allowing people their experiences with so called 'alternative' approaches as more than "hooey"? Even better, do you really stand to gain anything by questioning other's personal experience and beliefs about their own health? If you don't want buy it, don't take it off the shelf and fuck with the packaging.

My partner IS a physician who HAS gone through pre meds, then medical school, and residency. She now has her own practice, and sees patients get better EVERY day using an allopathic approach to deal with symptoms, long enough to begin treating the underlying causes of disease, (sometimes with allopathic medicine, sometimes with dietary and lifestyle changes and pharmaceutical grade supplements) MANY, but not all, caused by low grade inflammation, food allergies, toxins, lack of exercise, stress, etc.

She is offered free pharmaceuticals, lunches, etc. from the drug companies to get her to use their 'new' drug therapies. Some of these drugs are lifesavers, she acknowledges that but many are not. Many deal only with the symptoms and rarely the underlying cause of disease. They even change the indication of some to support their use for diseases and symptoms that they weren't originally even designed for.

No one said anything about a conspiracy. There are elements of truth in what YOU and others have expressed here. It's not an all or nothing thing when you are dealing with health and approaches to healing.

Are there uneducated charlatans out there? You bet there are. That being said, just because someone doesn't meet YOUR understanding of 'biological science' does not make them any less of a healer. Go hang around a great physician open to so called 'alternative' medicine; go hang around a true healer without any biological science background; What you'll find, when looked are people who have unargueably healed diseases as well as changed lives. Some scientifically documented, others unexplainable.

We have an acquantance who is working for a hospital here who is being paid to study 'energy medicine' to explain the scientifically unexplainable. Science doesn't explain everything any more.

Health and healing go way beyond science, my friend. Allow others to have their space to heal in. You might not be able to hold that space for yourself; the least you can do is hold open a little space for them.

[TechBear_Seattle]

72. I am an atheist because I demand proof

And not just with regards to religion. When people make claims that can be verified, how am being "closed minded" by asking to see the verification? Do you really expect me to keep my mouth shut when I see a snake oil salesman trying to make money off of the credulous? Apparently, you do.

[FlaGranny]

78. You know, he has NEVER ONCE said

anything that could be construed as "snake oil." He hit the nail on the head in the above post - INFLAMMATION. Do a Google on the latest major university research on heart disease, cancer, inflammatory bowel disease, and diabetes mellitus and add the word inflammation to your search. All the research in the last decade or so indicates these diseases are likely inflammatory responses to allergens and toxins, i.e., our immune systems. Detoxifying ourselves and our environment seems the only intelligent and sensible response. The response of the medical community, as a whole, is a new pill which may help with symptoms but never cures the underlying problem - how to get rid of the chronic inflammatory response that is the cause for most chronic illness.

An inflammatory response is how our bodies react to trauma. If the inflammatory response becomes chronic our immune systems work overtime and attack our bodies. This is not snake oil. It's well proven by the research of universities and their scientists.

[faithnotgreed]

51. well said - welcome to du

were glad youre here

i very much agree with what youve said here
everything is about bottom line and its been well proven just how much corporations/govt do not care what the long-term implications are
they just know they want us to buy what theyre selling so that we will be "happy" and they will be profitable above all else

[faithnotgreed]

49. i know i am - one biological doctor said i was a "cauldron of junk"

and that is indeed quite true

viruses
metals to name a couple of the big ones (part of which i inherited from my mother and part from growing up in rural farmland, well water etc and partly some i pick up just by living in this toxic world)

there are dishonest/poorly educated alternative practitioners of all kinds but there are lots of wonderful ones too
i have been fortunate to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff but only through a lot of time and energy and terrible appointments

im so blessed to now have a biological MD who deals with the entire physical/spiritual spectrum but i very much understand that there has been harm done because of practitioners who shouldnt be allowed to practice anything (and that goes for traditional doctors as well)

i 100% believe in chelation, detoxification methods, herbal & homeopathic medicine, energy medicine and bodywork as well as a lot of other things the traditional world calls "hooey"
but i can surely tell you that for my situation i believe in this FAR more than past doctors who only want to prescribe anti-depressants or sleep aids which was never the problem in the first place

anyway
i applaud this study and am glad it generates discussion
we should all be on the same side which - among other things- is for honest debate and cleaning up our world and our govt
it truly is toxic and with the never-ending lists of cancers, autisms, neurological nightmares of parkinsons and alzheimers, pain, depressions, heart ailments, just to name a few, we are all living examples of just how toxic things are and how badly it needs attention and people learning to think for themselves and becoming open to alternatives for a healthier world

[Le Taz Hot]

52. This was interesting:

"Her levels of DDT (banned since 1972) were greater than 90 percent of the U.S. population."

Most people are not aware that, even though DDT's USE was banned in the US, it's still being made and sold to other countries, particuarly Mexico and South America. It's why I refuse to buy produce from those (and other) countries -- I only buy fresh produce when it's in season and I know it's been grown locally or certified organic.

[LeftyMom]

54. Seems odd not to mention

that one of the best ways to reduce exposure to agricultural toxins is to mkinimize or eliminate animal fats in one's diet. Fat soluble toxins bioaccumulate and increase in concentration as they move up the food chain, so it's best to stick with a plant based diet.

[TechBear_Seattle]

59. That would work with some things, but not for most

There are some toxins that this would almost eliminate; DDT is especially notorious for staying in the food chain this way.

Unfortunately, most toxins come from other sources. Methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MTBE) is a very common additive to gasoline and has been in wide use for 40 years; fuel spills, tank leaks and refinery accidents have spread MTBE into nearly every water system and an estimated one third of all underground aquifers in the United States. Dioxins can be found in high quantity in milk and eggs, have been detected in fruit and vegetables grown in dioxin tainted soil, can form in the atmosphere from industrial exhaust and can be found in chemicals used to process tobacco for smoking and the chlorine used to make cigarette paper.

To completely isolate yourself from environmental toxins would require extraordinary measures. Does anyone remember the character of Mike Monroe on the TV series "Northern Exposure"? You would have to live like that, in an airtight home with special filters, never venturing out except in a science fiction style isolation suit. Problem is, the plastics used to make the home and suit probably give off phthalates.

I'm not saying we shouldn't take steps, and minimizing or eliminating animal fats is a step. Please, no flames :hi: I just get a bit testy and overwhelmed when I'm reminded of how big the problem really is, and for every one source of toxins we eliminate, we learn of five more that have become inescapeable. There isn't one thing or a few things or a lot of things that will make it all better; at this point, we pretty much have to pack up, move to an untouched planet and start over with a pre-industrial society. And even that is no real solution: The toxins already in our bodies will be passed down from mother to child, and will eventually enter our food chain. Then there is the problem of our descendants having their own Industrial Revolution, starting the whole thing all over again.

[JVS]

55. This guy on TV this morning was talking about having patients who...

only have one bowel movement every three weeks! It was horrific.

[DUHandle]

56. Say this three times

phthalates phthalates phthalates

[Rex]

70. We are our environment.

Turn it to shit and watch as we follow along.

[Rainscents]

74. I was VERY sick 16 years ago...

All doctor's wanted to give me MORE TOXIC medicines. I was in the hospital bleeding real badly and lost 40lbs. I finally check myself out of the hospital after 4 days, I went straight to Natural Path Doctor and he cured me. I am now almost 51 and very healthy! No more toxic medications! I am not 100% against pharma meds as they do save life, however, I am against them for shoving shit down our throats.

My sister has cancer (in remission) and she went through hell with pharma meds, she is now doing alternative and doing so much better!

Most of us are not getting food source vitamins that our body needs, people are eating process foods (which has no nutritional value), mean while, our body is screaming for foods that our body needs that has vitamins, omega 3,6,9 oils, trace minerals. When our body is feed with proper nutritions, body will heal it self.

[Blue_Tires]

79. ttt !!

[Octafish]

80. Big kick to a most important thread.

Bill Moyers said we're all carrying a couple of hundred of chemicals around that didn't exist in our grandparents' time.

[womanofthehills]

81. Sauna & epson salt detox baths help

People with environmental illness often do sauna - one of the major treatments now being done for the 9/11 workers who are ill. I became ill with environmental illness after the city of Albuquerque sprayed malathion on my neighborhood 4 days in a row for mosquitos. My whole block became sick - half the kids on the block came down with asthma. What really helped me was detox baths and sauna - sweating it all out. Fill the tub with water as hot as you can stand - pour in epson salt - and stay in as long as you can stand it. I also moved out of the city for cleaner air. Now I live in a very rural area - only one house allowed on 40 acres because of water problems. I eat only organic and have increased the size of my garden. I take no medications and try to avoid doctors as much as possible.

People go from air conditoned houses to air conditioned cars to air conditoned places of work etc.
Remember the old days when people used to sweat. Maybe there was a purpose to sweating.