Putin Thinks Israel 'Pursuing Wider Goals' (Putin thinking Bush is Drinkin

[wakeme2008]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Russia-Putin.html

July 15, 2006
Putin Thinks Israel 'Pursuing Wider Goals'
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 5:53 p.m. ET

ST. PETERSBURG, Russia (AP) -- President Vladimir Putin said he thinks Israel is pursuing wider goals in its military campaign against Lebanon than the return of its two captured soldiers.

''However complicated the questions are, maximum efforts must be applied to resolve the situation in a peaceful way and I think all efforts have not been exhausted,'' Putin said early Sunday.

''However, it is our impression that aside from seeking to return the abducted soldiers, Israel is pursuing wider goals,'' he said at a midnight news conference after a dinner opening the summit of the Group of Eight industrialized nations. He did not elaborate.

..more at link....

[IndianaGreen]

1. What Israel is doing is not what one would do to get POWs released

It is almost as their plight is incidental to a larger strategic interest, which may include suckering the US into a war with Iran.

Remember that these are the same kind of people that lobbied hard for a war against Iraq.

[wakeme2008]

2. Right IndianaGreen

:hi:

[Igel]

6. Putin's right, but it pays not to assume he means something

really wide. Or not.

He thinks Israel's pursuing "other, wider goals". Neutral enough. Perhaps drawing in Iran and the US. But his "vpechatlenie", his "impression", isn't very astute: his advisors haven't kept him well briefed.

My impression is that Israel's goals are as they've openly stated, and those are wider than seeking the return of the soldiers: they want to hurt Hezbollah, and aren't content to let the organization get ever larger numbers of ever more powerful weapons, lobbing missiles across the border in hopes of offing some school or Israeli, and counting on the damage never rising to the level of Israel's seriously responding. At what point does attempted murder become something to deal with? What's an acceptable murder rate?

They're tired of organizations, who's stated reason for existing is to kill Israelis and drive them out of the Middle East, becoming parts of governments, able to not just set policy for their gangs, but to influence countries. Of having a state of quiet war exist with Syria, and have Iran openly desirous of Israel's destruction, and having those countries arm a group on its border while the government nominally in charge can't even mount a serious complaint.

What they said about Hamas holds equally well for Hezbollah, and the exact same playbook is being used.

Tanks rolled into Gaza today.

[IndianaGreen]

11. Israel cannot maintain this war tempo for more than 2-3 weeks

and the US no longer has the resources to assist Israel as we did during the Yom Kippur War.

[Igel]

19. My prediction is bland.

In a week, after people have had time to stock up on food, expats flee for parts known, and all attempts at blather-based solutions have failed (if they fail) the tanks will roll into the south of Lebanon. They will try to root out Hezbollah, and it'll return briefly to what it was like before.

Then they will attempt a blather-based solution with the official government: disarm what's left of Hezbollah and occupy the south, i.e., don't repeat the stupid choice that the Syria-backed government made, and Israel will withdraw back across the border. Or else ... well, I'm guessing they're still working on the 'or else'.

Gaza keeps trying to wind down, and not succeeding. But something else changed: Hamas showed that it can strike deeper into Israel than they could a month ago, and Hezbollah just happened to have the same surprise in store.

[IndianaGreen]

21. The US military hasn't been able to disarm the Shia militias in Iraq

How can we expect the Israelis to succeed at disarming Hezbollah or Hamas?

[liberalnurse]

20. Who in the Hell is in Charge of Israel?

Sharon is in a deep, vegetative sleep......So who is calling the shots?:shrug:

[LiviaOlivia]

3. "Wider goals" humm...from Clemons at Washington Note

Some Questions Regarding Israel's Objectives: Is Israel Trying to Curb America's Deal-Making in Middle East?
Steven C. Clemons
July 15, 2006
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001538.php

~snip~

Why is Israel pounding most of Lebanon rather than just the South and rather than pinpointing its attack against Hezbollah assets? Why the dramatic bombing of explosive fuel centers? The attacks both in Gaza and in Beirut seem made for Fox News, CNN and the next Schwarzenegger movie.

I think that there is little doubt that a significant part of the explanation can be attributed to the fact that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his more liberal partner in this effort, Amir Peretz -- now Defense Minister -- are not former field command generals and want to demonstrate that they can be responsible stewards of Israel's national security -- and that they won't be timid in using Israel's military capabilities.

But that doesn't explain it all. The Israeli response to the Hezbollah incursion is exactly what Hezbollah wanted. Adversaries rarely give each other the behaviors the other actually desires unless there are other objectives involved.

~snip~

Israel is constraining American foreign policy in amazing and troubling ways by its actions. And a former senior CIA official and another senior Marine who are well-versed in both Israeli and broad Middle East affairs, agreed that serious strategists in Israel are more concerned about America tilting towards new bargains in the region than they are either about the challenge from Hamas or Hezbollah or showing that Olmert knows how to pull the trigger.

~snip~

[fearthem]

4. Well, he's certainly a smart man, doesn't easily fall prey to Bushisms

[The Stranger]

5. We are watching a military plan executed seeking conquest.

It was created long before two soldiers were captured.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

7. Bingo, we have a winner. n/t

[President Kerry]

15. Israeli military is always in the state of readiness, as they were

taught by history. And I don't believe Israel has the least bit of interest in conquering Lebanese or any other land. I think they are just trying to make a statement with their questionable offensive.

[Minstrel Boy]

29. From the Jerusalem Post, July 12:

"Only weeks ago, an entire reserve division was drafted in order to train for an operation such as the one the IDF is planning in response to Wednesday morning's Hizbullah attacks on IDF forces along the northern border." http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885978380&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[still_one]

8. maybe we should ask a Putin's intentions with Chencnya?

[JNelson6563]

12. Does not invalidate his point

and he does have one whether the subject gets changed or not.

Julie

[still_one]

13. really, I don't see him restraining attacks on Chencnya

when the Russians are attacked

I think it demonstrates that he his other intentions

[JNelson6563]

16. Perhaps he's projecting, the point remains

This isn't about getting 2 soldiers back. It's a broader goal than that.

Julie

[Tellurian]

9. This bit of news hasn't gotten much play. Iran & Russia Energy Partners..

THE ROVING EYE

Russia and Iran lead the new energy game
By Pepe Escobar

http://news.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/07/14/russia-and-iran-lead-the-new-energy-game/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atimes.com%2Fatimes%2FGlobal_Economy%2FHG14Dj03.html&frame=true

Whatever the West may have thought about it, Russian President Vladimir Putin has already spectacularly preempted this weekend's Group of Eight (G8) summit in St Petersburg with his own bit of Pipelineistan news. Putin announced in Shanghai on June 15 that "Gazprom is ready to support the construction of a gas pipeline from Iran to Pakistan and India with financial resources and technology".

He was referring to a fabled US$7 billion, 2,775-kilometer, 10-year old project - an Iranian idea - which should now be finished by 2009, developed by Gazexport, a Gazprom subsidiary. As a result, by 2015 both India and Pakistan should be receiving at least 70 million cubic meters of natural gas a year.

Thus the two top global gas producers - Russia and Iran - reached a strategic partnership abiding not only by their own interests but the interests of India, Pakistan, China and part of Central Asia, something that spells nothing less than an auspicious economic future for a great deal of Asia - independent from any American interference. Washington was not amused.

<snip>

The Russian masterstroke is to divert the bulk of upcoming Iranian gas exports to Asia - while Russia is still negotiating a very complex and very lucrative deal with Brussels to supply the European Union. Tehran and Moscow have reached a remarkable agreement. Putin and Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinejad will be working in tandem.

<snip>


Putin is an accomplished chess player. Accusations of heavy-handedness - on civil liberties and on energy policy - aside, the Kremlin does not need a confrontation with the "colonialist" West (the qualification is Putin's). What it needs is to find the best use for the massive financial flows that are pouring over Russia. The Russian weekly Vlast identifies "a new Russophobia in the West, hypocrite and erroneous". The Russian response is to challenge the West to accommodate to its own terms. The Kremlin calls its own internal experiment "sovereign democracy". As the Kommersant daily put it, "the West must answer to a series of ultimatums posed by Russia, including its refusal of European rules on the energy market, it particular position regarding Iran and the assurance of non-intervention on Russian internal affairs".

Putin's message to the G8 is loud and clear: we're back.

<snip>

Preemption is the (Russian) name of the game. Russia's strategic partnership with China has been solidified via the SCO. On the ultra-sensitive Iranian nuclear dossier, Moscow's game is extremely flexible, and all about nuance, as are Russia's relations with the Islamic world. It is charging market prices to both Ukraine and Georgia for its gas. And sooner - rather than much later - the gas OPEC with Iran and Central Asia may be a done deal.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

17. America, running from imperialism from GB, imposing

imperialism on the ME and indirectly the EU 200 years later. My my my.... whoooda thought?

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. They are obviously acting in concert with the US state apparatus

to force a conflict with Iran and Syria. If this is what Putin means by "wider goals," then he only sees what anyone with a lick of sense sees. The only difference is that he's saying it, albeit in a cryptic (which is to say, diplomatic) manner.

[Tellurian]

14. Putin isn't acting in concert with the US. He's acting in spite of the US.

It's quite obvious he is leading his nation into a proprietary
role as a major player in the Energy Markets. He is demonstrating
this can be done through a partnership with other countries rather
than the US role of privatizing energy through Bush owned Cartels.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. I'm referring to the Israelis

Reading...it's fundamental. :-)

[Mojorabbit]

18. So this is a war for Iranian resources? eom

[kitty1]

23. This insight on war; Israel wants to clip America's wings....

because of the dominant hegemony they are pursuing in the M.E., seems credible to me. If the U.S. has been trying to make side deals with Syria and to some extent Hamas to keep political leverage in the eyes of the Arab M.E. Gulf states, this could be irking Israel to some degree. With Bush wanting to withdraw troops out of Iraq soon, it seems possible. Perhaps Syria wasn't willing to play ball, and that's why America got so rough with them a while back and issued threats to them. Israel doesn't trust anyone too much these days and with Sharon gone, the new govt is trying to flex their muscles in an overzealous display of military. With Hezbollah bankrolled by Iran, they could be a force to be reckoned with. More to this than simply a kidnapping gone bad.

[Miss Chybil]

24. I couldn't find in the article where it says Putin thinks Bush is drinking

Why is that in the headline?

[bainz]

25. treed

I looked for it too. Couldn't find it.

[truthisfreedom]

26. take a look at this pic from the 14th (Friday)... it's shocking.

look carefully beyond bush... there's a bunch more beer on ice.

[JuniperLea]

27. He looked hung over today

His hair was a mess, huge bags under his eyes... gray skin showing through makeup... eyes like two burnt holes in a blanket (as my mom used to say)... what an embarrassment.

[Miss Chybil]

28. Still doesn't say Putin thinks Bush is drinking.

It's a misleading headline.