Official: Lawmakers see Iran explosives ( Joe L. is one of them)

[rodeodance]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070210/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iran

Official: Lawmakers see Iran explosives

By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer 26 minutes ago

MUNICH, Germany - U.S. military commanders in Iraq have shown members of Congress explosive devices that bear Iranian markings as evidence Tehran is supplying Iraqi militants with bombs, a senior U.S. government official said Saturday.


One of the lawmakers, independent Sen.Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, said he has seen some of the evidence, though he would not be specific. "I'm convinced from what I've seen that the Iranians are supplying and are giving assistance to the people in Iraq who are killing American soldiers," said Lieberman, who was attending an international security conference in Munich.

The senior official said military commanders in December showed lawmakers mortar rounds and other munitions and fragments that had Iranian serial numbers and markings.

The official, who requested anonymity because the evidence collected has not been made public, said U.S. generals also displayed improvised explosive devices that they said reflected Iranian style........

[4dsc]

1. Al Sadr is the target

so when do they take him out??

[Igel]

16. You want a strike on Qom?

I think that's what taking him out would mean, currently, if rumors are true.

I suspect the mullahs would be a mite perturbed by such a strike.

[The Stranger]

63. So is that a justification for another illegal war?

Because you suspect "the mullahs" would be a "mite bit perturbed"?

[rodeodance]

2. the official is anonomous and Joe L. is the only lawmaker named.

[struggle4progress]

34. Bush's New Iran Policy - No Evidence for IED Charge (Jan 2007)

Published on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 by Inter Press Service
by Gareth Porter

WASHINGTON - ... The U.S. command admitted at first that the Sunnis were making the shaped charges themselves. On Jun. 21, 2005, Gen. John R. Vines, then the senior U.S. commander in Iraq, told reporters that the insurgents had probably drawn on bomb-making expertise from former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein's army.

A Pentagon official involved in combating the new IEDs also told the New York Times that the first such bombs examined by the U.S. military had required considerable expertise, and that well-trained former government specialists were probably involved in making them. The use of infrared detonators was regarded as a tribute to the insurgents' "resourcefulness", according to the Pentagon source.

But sometime in the next six weeks, the Bush administration made a decision to start blaming its new problem in Iraq on Tehran. On Aug. 4, 2005, Pentagon and intelligence officials leaked the story to NBC and CBS that U.S. troops had "intercepted" dozens of shaped charges said to have been "smuggled into northeastern Iraq only last week" ...

But the administration had a major credibility problem with that story. It could not explain why Iran would want to assist the enemies of the militant Shiite parties in Iraq that were aligned with Iran ...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0116-08.htm

[saigon68]

35. Joementum & Cheney 2 COWARDLY VIET-NAM DRAFT DODGERS

I love it how he wants to send the children of the poor out to kill islamixcs

[LiberalFighter]

60. Is Lieberman an expert on weapons?

Can he tell if the markings are real or fake?

What expertise does he have in military operations and weapons?

Who supplies all of the intelligence for this guy?

(Not intended as a reply to Rodeodance)

[theoldman]

3. And how about the explosive devices that the Saudis are giving

to the Iraqi Sunnis?

[aggiesal]

12. This is what annoys/pi$$es me the most ...

America sells arms to the Saudi's
The Iraq Study Group states that the Saudi's are the
main suppliers of weapons to the Iraq Sunni's.
The Sunni's use these weapons to kill Americans.

So we're building the weapons to kill our own soldiers.

Only in Amerika!

[Turbineguy]

24. So maybe it's just jealousy

if the Sunnis buy weapons from the US instead of the Iranians, problem solved!:sarcasm:

[shain from kane]

4. Iran and Iraq had their own war in the 1980s. Can they prove that these are not munitions

or munition parts from that conflict?
When we abandoned Viet Nam, we left a hell of a lot of ammunition and weapons for the North Vietnamese and Cambodians.
We failed to secure all of the munitions dumps when we invaded Iraq. These may be captured weapons from other conflicts. There is certainly not enough proof to rattle the sabers for war against Iran.

[struggle4progress]

28. Iraq: Unexploded ordnance killing dozens in north (2003)

Source: United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - Integrated Regional Information Networks (IRIN)

Date: 25 Apr 2003

AMMAN, 25 April (IRIN) - Unexploded ordnance (UXO) in northern Iraq is killing and maiming dozens of people every day. "It is an absolute emergency," Sean Sutton, the information manager with the Mines Advisory Group (MAG), told IRIN from As-Sulaymaniyah in northeastern Iraq.

"In the short term, this is a horrendous problem, unequalled anywhere else in the world," he said, "because children are playing with stockpiles of unexploded ordnance left by Iraqi forces within towns, and on their outskirts, in military and police buildings and schools."

It is believed that following the first days of fighting in the region, the Iraqi army command structures and control broke down, leading to little or no communication between the soldiers.

They pulled back into towns to prepare for a defensive stand, but then abandoned the fight when no orders were being received from superiors. Most of them then dissolved into local communities, or fled, leaving huge stockpiles of arms behind them ...

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/AllDocsByUNID/903d5531368139a149256d13002c8202

[struggle4progress]

29. IRAN-IRAQ: Landmine agreement signed (2005)

2/19/05
IRAN-IRAQ: Landmine agreement signed

BAGHDAD, 18 Dec 2005 (IRIN) - The Iraqi government signed a memorandum of understanding with Tehran last week aimed at eliminating landmines planted in the country during its war with Iran in the 1980s.

The defence ministry expects the accord, signed on 12 December, to result both in the eradication of unexploded landmines as well as improved relations with its neighbour. It is the first such agreement between the two former enemies.

The Iran-Iraq conflict, which lasted from 1980 to 1988 and resulted in over a million casualties, began when Iraq attacked Iran over disputed territories.

"If we work in partnership, we can get rid of all the mines," said Ra'ad Shalal, a senior defence ministry official. "Especially since Iran has experience and information as to where landmines were planted." ...

http://www.payvand.com/news/05/dec/1142.html

[struggle4progress]

30. One in Five Iraqi Communities Littered With Landmines

OLD ENEMY RENDERS SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF IRAQ "UNINHABITABLE"
One in Five Iraqi Communities Contaminated by Landmines, Veterans for America Survey Finds
Experts Available for Comment

Washington, D.C., December 5, 2005 -- One in five communities in northern and southern Iraq are endangered by landmines and other unexploded ordnance, according to the latest update from the Landmine Impact Survey (LIS) conducted by the U.S.-based NGO Veterans for America (VFA), an international humanitarian organization that addresses on the causes, conduct and consequences of war through programs of advocacy and service to victims of conflict. More than 10,000 communities in Iraq were visited for this survey.

"It comes as a surprise to no one that after decades of internal and international conflict, Iraq is littered with landmines and bombs," said VFA Vice President Joe Donahue. "The present conflict notwithstanding, Iraq has no hope of healing and recovering its economic footing without prompt attention to this problem by the rest of the world."

VFA's LIS surveys are unique in a number of ways. In addition to using cutting-edge landmine mapping technology, survey staff hold town meetings, as well as smaller group meetings, in communities where local residents have learned to live amongst landmines and unexploded ordinance (UXO). Residents are asked to draw maps of landmine locations, which are then used in combination with data from survey forms specially designed to allow for rapid data analysis. Maps of landmine and UXO locations are plotted digitally with coordinates using topographic maps and GPS coordinates as resources.

Of the 10,049 communities that the VFA team has located and visited so far, 2,029 were identified as contaminated by landmines and/or munitions of some type. LIS personnel are quick to point out that these sites present grave dangers to local residents. Even in the best cases where local people are aware of the contamination and are conditioned to steer clear of the area, rain and snow in the north and southern marsh reclamation can cause these mines to shift their position and catch unsuspecting citizens in their deadly traps ...

http://www.veteransforamerica.org/newsroom/2005/old-enemy-renders.html

[struggle4progress]

31. Iraqis flocking to sell arms for fistful of cash (2004)

U.S. program bags dizzying weapons array
Vivienne Walt, Chronicle Foreign Service
Monday, May 24, 2004


(05-24) 04:00 PST Baghdad -- Sajad Hussein Khadum's golden moment came last week when he staggered through the gates of a soccer stadium wheeling a barrow filled with his prized haul: 46 mortar shells abandoned near his home by Saddam Hussein's soldiers more than a year ago.

"I have waited a long time to do this," said Khadum, a 27-year-old construction worker, as a U.S. soldier handed him $3,500 in new $100 bills -- a once-in-a-lifetime windfall ...

Along with Khadum's mortar shells, one day's haul last week included a large load of AK-47 rifles piled on a flatbed truck (for later distribution to the new Iraqi army), 155mm artillery pieces, scores of rocket-propelled grenade launchers, a wide range of bombs and barrels of TNT. One man led his donkey cart into the stadium with an anti-aircraft gun mounted on the back -- a $200 sale.

"We had heard there were a lot of weapons in Iraq," said Capt. Kevin Baird of the 1st Cavalry Division's 1st Brigade, which arrived in Baghdad at the end of March. "But nothing anyone ever told us could prepare us for seeing all of this stuff." ...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/24/MNGS36QOJQ1.DTL

[struggle4progress]

32. Arms Equipment Plundered in 2003 Is Surfacing in Iraq (2005)

By James Glanz
New York Times
April 17, 2005

... Interviews with people who identified themselves as arms dealers or members of the resistance in Baghdad, Falluja and other Iraqi cities indicate that a parallel black market operates in the explosives looted from some of the same sites. In fact, sketchy descriptions by members of the Iraqi resistance suggest that the arms market is also a highly developed enterprise with brokers, buyers and looters who have stockpiled their products, including artillery shells, mortar rounds and Kalashnikov rifles. One former Iraqi army officer who said that he had joined the mujahedeen said that in Sadr City, for example, a few trusted brokers would take prospective buyers to weapons caches that ranged in size from a few rounds buried in a garden to whole rooms of ordnance. If the broker and the buyers agreed on a price, the buyers would arrive a day or two later with a vehicle to drive their purchases away. The broker and the stockpilers would have worked out their respective cuts in advance ...

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/unmovic/2005/0417surfacing.htm

[Nihil]

61. PS ...

... Thanks for posting those items ... surprising how people "forget" this stuff ...

[bigluckyfeet]

69. Did not the US supply

And give assistance to people in Afghanistan who killed Russian soldiers.

[dogman]

5. How many have USA and ally markings?

They can fabricate any evidence they want.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

6. Did the Made in Iran tags have the Made in America logo?

just wondering.

[Algorem]

7. J-Lie be frontin'.

[Kagemusha]

8. A Mahdi Army commander claimed to The Guardian that...

Iran provided mortar shells to the Mahdi Army, either giving or selling depending on which Iranian commander was involved. This was out of hatred of the Americans, not out of love for the Mahdi Army.

No one's successfully proven that the Iranians are helping the Sunni insurgents. I doubt such proof exists.

Bottom line is that the people Iran actually is providing "bombs" with - mind you, mortar shells aren't IED's when delivered whole, they're duh, mortar rounds - are people who appear to not be fighting the US more than the tiniest fraction. Lieberman's statement that it's assistance "to the people in Iraq who are killing American soldiers" is irresponsibly broad brushed even if in some small respects, some relatively insignificant respects, it holds some truth.

Because the Shiites are not fighting the US in force. If Lieberman would like that to change, go on, let's kick the hornet's nest a few more times. Then we'll see exactly how much Iran can supply to those who would then like to kill Americans all that much more.

[BR_Parkway]

9. Folks who can't find Osama can find Iranian barcodes on shrapnel

Interesting, huh?

[Thickasabrick]

27. Excellent point n/t

[Cass]

64. Great point! nt

[sarcasmo]

10. The only question left is when will they bomb Iran. IMHO, If they will bomb

Iran, is off the table. Kick and Nom for the sure stupidity of this Regime. Looks like we have to wait until 08 for American Regime change.

[LynnTheDem]

11. The bush regime cranking it up for springtime war on the people of Iran.

Will the American public fall for this utter bullshit yet again?

That's the million-lives question.

[MrPrax]

15. Scary isn't?

I am of two minds:

1) I'm going towards the undeclared dictatorship and as such the American people can't be blamed

or...

2) the American people do approve all this on one level of racist conquest and merely ignore the one obvious lie being used to prop up the equally wrong narratives of the others that came before it.

To believe Iran is a threat to US troops on the ground in Iraq, is to still believe that those US troops have any legitimate right to be there in place.

Since that fiction can't be sustained and there is a separate and growing strand to 'withdrawal', it would appear all of this is being done to preach to the converted and help maintain the elite coalition's efforts in the US federal system to continue moving on along with a hidden agenda.

Sad state of affairs when guys like Pat Buchanan (or Ron "Don't do it, Mr. President. Don't bomb Iran. We don't need it. We don't want it." Paul) make more sense than many so-called democrats. It does appear that part of the Iran selling job is being done NOT through the Bushites, but through elites in the Democratic Party.

[City Lights]

18. Yeah. We'd never read a story like this in the summer,

'cause you never unveil a new product until after Labor Day. :argh:

My gut tells me the sheeple won't be sold on buying this "new product" as easily as they were sold last time around. :fingerscrossed:

[classysassy]

13. "wake up america"

Bush/Chaney,excuse for invading Iran.Why are we invading Iran,because thats where the oil is?.SUPPORT TEXICO,CHEVRON,AND THE REST OF BUSH/chaney's OILY FRIENDS.

[Xipe Totec]

14. Clearly marked "Made in Aye-ran"

in Arabic-looking script with scimitars and a crescent moon.

What more proof do we need? :sarcasm:

[acmavm]

17. Is this Liebermann's equivalent to Powel's little bottle of anthrax?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ZacharyG]

25. How come only Jewish politicians are accused of dual loyalty?

Is Bush "an agent for Likud" as well? Does Dick Cheney have a dual loyalty to America and Israel too?

[FarCenter]

19. A civil war is an opportunity to test your weapons in real combat

Among the weapons is a roadside bomb known as an "explosively formed penetrator," which can pierce the armor of Abrams tanks with nearly molten-hot charges.

Apparently, these were more frequently used in December and less so in January. The frequency of use probably reflects one or more of the following factors:

- a greater frequency of incursions into Shiite areas by US forces,

- an interest by Iran in testing the effectiveness of these munitions against a variety of US armored vehicles, and

- a warning to the US that a ground invasion of Iran will be met with effective anti-armor weapons.

The success of US armor in Iraq seems to have been attributable to the fact that Iraqis were fielding fairly old anti-armor munitions -- essentially old WW II style shaped-charge RPGs.

However, if the intelligence is correct, the Iranians are fielding explosively formed penetrators and possibly larger, two-stage, shaped charge RPGs and anti-tank missiles. The Syrians took delivery of the Russian Kornets anti-tank missile, and the Iranians may have done so also (or copied some of the warhead design).

Note that explosively formed pentrators are not a particularly new thing. During the Cold War, one of the weapons developed by the US was a missile that would be fired at an advancing Soviet tank columm and dispense a fleet of sub-munitions over it. Each sub-munition would home towards an individual tank, and once above it at the right height, fire an explosively formed penetrator at the "soft" top of the tank.

[MidwestTransplant]

20. So we are to believe the Iranians are incapable of making weapons without such markings for export?

Obviously if it were being done as an organized effort by the Iranian gov't they wouldn't have markings. Granted the designs would be the same but that can be reverse engineered.

An alternative is that sympathetic members of the Iranian military are sending or selling weapons.

A third is that the markings/weapons are forged to look like Iranian weapons.

A fourth is that Iran is sending unmarked weapons and some in the Iranina military are acting alone sending/selling more Iraninan munitions.

[leQ]

21. i wonder how many of those legislators read farsi and can tell the difference

between arabic and farsi.

[merh]

23. Didn't the USSR find our weapons were used against them

in Afghanistan?

Did that give them the right to attack us? No.

Christ, these people are such friggin cowboys, they plant the smoking guns or the need for the smoking guns and think that will justify their wars.

God help us all.

[shain from kane]

26. If we declared war every time we found an AK-47, we would have troops all over the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47

Oh, that's right. We do have troops stationed all over the world.

[Usrename]

33. Hope they don't find any Uzis..

we'd have to nuke Israel.

[TexasLawyer]

36. Once the Shi'ites start gunning for Americans

it is time to leave Iraq.

Don't look at who MADE the weapons-- look at who is USING them.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

37. NYT:Deadliest Bomb in Iraq Is Made by Iran, U.S. Says

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/10/world/middleeast/10weapons.html?ei=5065&en=7febec32f88064b5&ex=1171774800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

February 10, 2007
Deadliest Bomb in Iraq Is Made by Iran, U.S. Says
By MICHAEL R. GORDON
WASHINGTON, Feb. 9 — The most lethal weapon directed against American troops in Iraq is an explosive-packed cylinder that United States intelligence asserts is being supplied by Iran.

The assertion of an Iranian role in supplying the device to Shiite militias reflects broad agreement among American intelligence agencies, although officials acknowledge that the picture is not entirely complete.

In interviews, civilian and military officials from a broad range of government agencies provided specific details to support what until now has been a more generally worded claim, in a new National Intelligence Estimate, that Iran is providing “lethal support” to Shiite militants in Iraq.

The focus of American concern is known as an “explosively formed penetrator,” a particularly deadly type of roadside bomb being used by Shiite groups in attacks on American troops in Iraq. Attacks using the device have doubled in the past year, and have prompted increasing concern among military officers. In the last three months of 2006, attacks using the weapons accounted for a significant portion of Americans killed and wounded in Iraq, though less than a quarter of the total, military officials say.

more...

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

38. The same Michael Gordon... yes

the very same one...

http://ashevillian.blogspot.com/2007/02/through-looking-glass-again.html

[Robbien]

48. First Judith Miller. Now they are going with her writing partner?

This guy is the guy who wrote about the stupid aluminum tubes which couldn't be used for anything except neocon propaganda?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

55. The one and only

scribe to the stars.

[dicknbush]

58. Read this from Editor and Publisher .....very good crtique of the TImes article by Liar GOrdon

http://www.rawstory.com/showoutarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.editorandpublisher.com%2Feandp%2Fnews%2Farticle_display.jsp%3Fvnu_content_id%3D1003544369

If it doesn't come up go to The Raw Story and look for the article about Gordon It below the head lines.

[Spiffarino]

70. Judy's partner in crime, eh?

Figures.

Time to crack my knuckles and send off a comment to the Gray Lady. :grr:

[junior college]

39. Really?

Let's go kill us some Iranians!!! :sarcasm:

[saigon68]

41. they are extemists islamixcs

by feith's reasoning they are dog shit and need to die.

</sarcasm>

[elehhhhna]

40. One more good reason to GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.

[kenny blankenship]

42. yeah everybody knows there's no pipe in Iraq

and no explosives either! The pipe bomb materials HAVE to come from Iran. And they HAVE to be supplied by the Iranian gov't. No ordinary Iranian could just buy pipe and move it across the Iraqi border. No Iraqi could cross over to Iran and buy pipe. Wait a second... If Iran is supplying pipebombs to Iraqi insurgents, that means... they must have also been behind the bomb set off at the 1996 Olympics, which was a pipebomb, the bombing for which Eric Robert Rudolph was convicted--or should I say railroaded!

[Eurobabe]

43. Haven't we heard this BS all before?

This is Iraq REDUX. How do they know the serial numbers match, unless the US planted the weapons?

Same shit, different pile.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

[ShortnFiery]

53. Yes, that "Made in Persia" gift tag is the big tell ...

:eyes:

[magellan]

66. I'm sure the MEK are happy to confirm the weapons are Iranian

The People's Mujahedin of Iran is known by a variety of names including:

* Monafiqeen-e-Khalq (MEK) - the Iranian government consistently refers to the People's Mujahedin with this name, meaning "traitors of the people".
* Mojahedin-e-Khalq Organization (MKO)
* The National Liberation Army of Iran
* (disputed) National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI) - the PMOI is the founding member of a wide coalition of organisations called the NCRI, while others including the FBI claim that the NCRI is either an "alias" for or a front group for the PMOI.

snip...

After the 2003 American invasion of Iraq, MEK camps were bombed by coalition forces because of its alliance with Saddam Hussein. The leaders of the MEK entered into a ceasefire agreement with the coalition after the attack, and handed over its weaponry to the US military. However there was no independent confirmation at the time by either the U.S. military or any third party whether all weapons had been handed over. Major General Geoffrey Miller, concluded the agreement with the MEK. After a 4 month investigation by several US agencies, including the State Department, only a handful of charges under U.S. criminal law were brought against MEK members, all American citizens.

snip...

According to the news organisation Rawstory, an intelligence official said that following the invasion of Iraq, “We disarmed of major weapons, but not small arms. US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was pushing to use them as a military special ops team, but there was infighting between Rumsfeld's camp and then National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, but she was able to fight them off for a while”.

According to another intelligence source, the policy infighting ended last year (2005) when Rumsfeld, under pressure from US Vice President Dick Cheney, came up with a plan to “convert” the MEK by having them simply quit their organization." “These guys are nuts,” the intelligence source said. "Stephen Cambone (Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence) and those guys made MEK members swear an oath to Democracy and resign from the MEK and then our guys incorporated them into their unit and trained them” for action in Iran. A UN source close to the United Nations Security Council, again according to Rawstory, said in April 2006 that "the clandestine war had been going on for roughly a year".<35>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahadeen_al-Khalq


This is following a similar pattern to the involvement of Chalabi and his Iraqi National Congress in BushCo's bid to invade Iraq. The MEK, like the INC, have good reason to give BushCo anything they ask for -- possibly including "evidence" of Iranian weapons in Iraq and "intelligence" on Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program.

[mix]

44. shameful

government sources ; juan cole claims that the sunnis are the ones using roadside bombs in anbar province, not a likely client of shia iran

[bemildred]

45. Yes yes, the eyerakis could never do this without help.

Only with help from Iran could they make such a bomb, right?
:puke:

[msongs]

46. Their headline is wrong - deadliest bombs are made by the USA

as are many weapons the "insurgents" are using, sold to Iraq by the republican presidents Reagan and Bush 1 ANd placed into the hands of the "insurgents" by the incompetent military strategy that did not protect Iraqi arms stashes during the US invasion and occupation.

Furthermore, the presence of things made in Iran does not necessarily mean they are deliberately provided by the iranian government.

I can buy a japanese made car but that does not mean the japanese government sold it to me.

Msongs
www.msongs.com

[TacticalPeek]

49. Deadliest Bomb in Iraq Is Made in U.S. by Dynetics, U.S. Says

Technical description:
Nicknamed the "Mother Of all Bombs" the MOAB is the largest non-nuclear conventional bomb used today, replacing the 6800kg BLU-82 bomb nicknamed "The Daisy Cutter". The MOAB is puched out on a specialised sledge from the rear door of a cargo plane at 10.000 feet. When leaving the plane a parachute is activated on the sledge draging it out of the door. When out of the door, the sledge and the bomb seperates. The sled falls away in a paraschute and the MOAB continue down in a freefall. Because it is not dropped by parachute it enables the aircraft to drop it from higher altitudes, allowing the plane to get away safely. When free from the sledge a satellite-guided global positioning device takes over and directs the bomb to its target. A Device similar to Doppler radar avtivetes the bomb, which ignites about 1.8 meters above the ground in order to create maximum effect. The idea behind to an "air burst" weapon, as opposed to a weapon that explodes on impact with the ground, is to increase its destructive range. A bomb that penetrates the ground and then bursts tends to send all of its energy either down into the ground or straight up into the air. An air burst weapon sends a great deal of its energy out to the side.

http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/GBU43BMOAB.html

[Whoa_Nelly]

47. Hmmm...and just who supplied any or all of the know-how and/or materials to Iran

:shrug:

[killbotfactory]

50. I assume they have proof

Or did I just make an ass out of you and me?

[tabasco]

51. That slimy stuff inside your toilet tank....

You betcha! IRAN !

[Strelnikov_]

52. "Last three months of 2006 . . weapons accounted for significant portion of Americans killed"

In the last three months of 2006, attacks using the weapons accounted for a significant portion of Americans killed and wounded in Iraq, though less than a quarter of the total, military officials say.

Considering that the article goes on to note that there is no evidence these weapons are being supplied to the Sunni insurgency, the above statement would appear to be outright propaganda.

I mean, what the hell does "significant portion of Americans killed and wounded in Iraq, though less than a quarter of the total" mean if not outright propaganda?

Unless my understanding of "significant portion" is different than the NYT.

Per Juan Cole:

Thursday, February 01, 2007
http://www.juancole.com /

The US announced the killing of 4 US troops on Wednesday. Note that they were killed "north of Baghdad" and "west of Baghdad," i.e. in Sunni Arab areas. Such announcements almost never say the US troops were killed in Shiite areas, such as might be getting Iranian military aid. I conclude that the real problems facing US troops in Iraq are not with Iran, and the innuendoes of officials such as Burns are disingenuous.

There are some reasons to think that the kidnappers at Karbala may have been Sunnis.

. . . .

If they had been Iranians why not head east to Kut and thence to Shiite East Baghdad or on to Iran?

The one piece of the puzzle that doesn't fit is that clearly someone on the inside gave them info about the meeting in Karbala. But the Iraqi military had that info and is full of Sunnis, many of whom are double agents

I don't actually know of any incidents in which Shiite guerrillas in Shiite areas deployed shaped charges to kill American troops. The US casualties I see in the wire services are all in Sunni areas. There are British casualties in the deep south at the hand of Shiites, but those Shiites are anti-Iranian ones like the Garamsha Marsh Arab tribe or the Sadrist splinter group of Mahmoud Hasani al-Sarkhi (which burned down the Iranian consulate in Basra).

[goforit]

54. Bologna...and nothing more.

[fooj]

56. Joe- you're a f*cking traitor.

Your credibility is shot, dickhead. Deal with it.

[Eurobabe]

57. Holy Joe is here in Munich?? Where is my protest gear?!

Edit, just found out there was a protest yesterday, and the Polizei were out in riot gear.



Go here to view more pix:

http://web.mac.com/nicolasmitchell36/iWeb/Site/Conference.html

[dicknbush]

59. HERE IS LIEber FUCKS WASHINGTON PHONE #...

GIVE HIM SOME SHIT..IT WON'T DO MUCH GOOD BUT AT LEAST YOU CAN VENT AND BE SURE TO TELL THE PERSON TAKING THE MESSAGE THAT THEY ARE FUCKS TO FOR WORKING FOR THE SCUMBAG!

[JerseygirlCT]

62. And we should believe HIM?

C'mon.

[Cass]

65. Remember the 380 tons of missing explosives?

Back in October 2004 when we learned that 380 tons of explosives went missing from an Iraqi militarty facility we were guarding. That never gets mentioned much anymore but IMO its important. Isn't it just as likely the IEDs used by insurgents came from this missing material?

(CNN) -- Some 380 tons of explosives powerful enough to detonate nuclear warheads are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that was supposed to be under American control, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency says.
...
The explosives -- considered powerful enough to demolish buildings or detonate nuclear warheads -- were under IAEA control until the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. IAEA workers left the country before the fighting began.
...
A European diplomat told The New York Times that Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the IAEA, is "extremely concerned" about the potentially "devastating consequences" of the vanished stockpile.
(more) http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/25/iraq.explosives/

From the OP article: Gates' remarks left unclear how the U.S. knows the serial numbers are traceable to Iran and whether such weapons would have been sent to Iraq by the Iranian government or by private arms dealers.

How do we know for certain these munitions, if they do indeed bear Iranian markings, were provided by the Iranian government? And, how do we know these aren't old munitions left over from the Iran/Iraq conflict? They have yet to provide concrete evidence linking the Iranian government to these weapons. They are going from point A all the way to point G without explaining points B-F.

[Lilith Velkor]

67. Don't look at Saudi, look at Iran!

Iran bad. Ooga-booga.

[HuffleClaw]

68. bwahahhahhahaaa

here's the 'evidence'!

and of course lieberman jumps up to support it.

[Rex]

71. Great, Joe wtf is wrong with you?

Do you crave world war III that badly?