Takeoffs Continued Until Second Jet Hit Trade Center, Transcripts Show

[Tripper11]

A set of tape transcripts released yesterday open a small window onto the flow of information among aviation authorities on Sept. 11, 2001, showing that air traffic officials in New York knew no more about the attacks than anyone watching television.

Although fighter jets were racing toward the city after the commandeered planes, the transcripts showed that controllers at La Guardia Airport, apparently unaware of the hijackings, continued to send out flights until the second plane had struck the World Trade Center. That was nearly an hour after the first plane had been hijacked.

The records are the latest to be released by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey in response to a lawsuit brought by The New York Times. Four months ago, the Port Authority released about 2,000 pages of transcribed phone calls and radio transmissions that revealed communications problems and mistaken assurances that people could stay inside the towers.

Among the matters being investigated by the federal 9-11 Commission is the performance of the Federal Aviation Administration, which controls the nation's air traffic, and how quickly it notified air defense and local air traffic controllers.

NY Times

[aquart]

1. Timeline for this?

Was NY airspace left ignorant of East Coast hijackings? For what bloody reason?

[paulthompson]

2. Timeline?

Check out this thing I made for a very complete answer:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/dayof911.html

Also check out this:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayairdefense.html

[aquart]

6. Thanks. Your timeline raises SO many questions, yeeks.

However, this might be the relevant one for today:

8:25 a.m. Boston flight controllers notify other flight control centers of the Flight 11 hijacking, but supposedly they don't notify (NORAD for another 6 or 15 minutes (see 8:31 a.m. and 8:40 a.m.). <8:25:00, Guardian, 10/17/01> Why isn't NORAD also notified at this time? Note that this means the controllers working Flights 77 and Flight 93 would have been aware of Flight 11's hijacking from this time.

Other centers were notified, but not New York? Not La Guardia?

[joeunderdog]

7. My parents were on the next CA-bound flight out of Logan.

They never got off the runway. Logan DEFINITELY knew what was going on. No question.

My parents had 2 flights to choose from that morning. They chose right...

[westman]

28. Among other things,

the Cooperative Research guys believe the following theory regarding the intention of the US response to 9/11::

"Instigate a 'clash of civilizations' that will provide the U.S. with an excuse to reorganize the world under the tutelage of an American empire. "

Not credible. Next?

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. Would you like to provide a link

to that statement? I don't believe I've ever seen anything like that on their website? Besides if you read the PNAC document that is basicly what the neocons are advocating.

[westman]

31. As you requested:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/wot/default.html

Followed by the statement:

"Although CCR believes that the available information very strongly supports the above hypotheses...".

My original statement contained one of those hypotheses.

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. Thanks for the link

but is it fair to take one line out of context to discredit the entire body of work that the owners of the site have carefully researched? You remind me of the folks who like to quote single lines from the bible, that turn out to mean something totally different when they are put back into context.

If you read the entire section it is clear that this one statement was from a list of items that were interpretations offered by reputable journalists and scholars. These are opinions and are being presented as such and they are not necessarily the opinions of the owners of the site. Further on they do state their own opinion of the situation, where they acknowledge that there is a considerable degree of ambiguity in regards to the causes of these events.



Listed below are a few of the alternative interpretations that have been offered by reputable journalists and scholars with regard to the true motives behind the 'war on terrorism'.

Critics argue that the wealthy and powerful elite as a whole are using the 'war on terrorism' as a means to achieve one or more of the following objectives:

<snip>

Although CCR believes that the available information very strongly supports the above hypotheses, it should be noted that there is a considerable degree of ambiguity with regard to the actual dynamics that are at work between these goals, ongoing events, and the various individual and organizational actors. To assume that every development in in the so-called 'war on terrorism' can be easily explained by a simple 'conspiracy' model is to ignore the dialectical and conflictive nature of real historical progression. While it is obvious that certain menaces in the Pentagon and White House yield considerable influence over the direction of current U.S. foreign policy it is equally obvious that they are not fully in control of the present situation.

[westman]

34. The "snip" was representative of the context

of the entire page, and much of the site. One cannot conclude that a quotation is out of context when it clearly expresses the beliefs of the site editors.

[TrogL]

3. Because they were watching their scopes, not the news

When an aircraft turns off its transponder it becomes invisible to air traffic control. The "radar" scopes they use are actually computer displays of transponder information, not actual radar images.

[aquart]

4. It's either too early or too late for that to make sense to me.

La Guardia has phones, right? The air controllers have supervisors? At least one hijacking was known to have taken place in East Coast air space and the controllers for the largest city on the East Coast weren't informed?

Nobody in Boston knew how to dial?

[aquart]

5. What if it had been a standard ransom hijacking?

You know, we have your people and plane, release our prisoners and give us $50 million?

What if this hijacked plane decided to sit down at JFK? Would the landing be the first we heard?

What if it decided to set down in Cuba, blithely wandering down the East Coast till it spotted the island off Florida?

Were we supposed to just guess who that little flying pixie was?

WHY WEREN'T OUR AIR CONTROLLERS TOLD THERE WAS A ROGUE IN THE SKY? Not to mention the unbelievable figure of FOUR HIJACKED PLANES IN EAST COAST AIR SPACE.

FOUR ROGUES and nobody grounded East Coast air travel??????????????????? For safety? Because they weren't told????????

Excuse me, what part of this makes common sense?

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. That's the problem

none of it makes sense.

And without a proper investigation most of it will never make sense. And the more years that pass before a proper investigation is done the harder it will be to make sense of it all. Now do you know why Bu$hCo is dragging this stuff out for as long as possible? If they had nothing to hide, they would be anxious to get to the bottom of this in order to prevent it from happening again, you would think?

[leQ]

9. looking in the wrong places for the truth?

is there any suggestion that things were deliberately mishandled? it would have taken a massive conspiracy wouldn't it?

i think this investigation is working the wrong direction. instead of what happened AFTER the hijackings, why not focus on why the hijackings occurred in the first place?

this is where my 'conspiracy' lies.

the list that should have kept the terrorists out of the planes would be a good starting point, then work backwards.

i haven't seen anything in the 9/11 commission releases about the fbi memos in arizona and minneapolis. or are they not even going down that road?

my gut is telling me that time is going to run out on this and the focus will shift away from 'revenge' over 9/11 and more on crusading 'democracy'.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. The real place to look first

is at the reactions of those who were in command that day. It did not take a lot of people to make this happen, especially when you knew that the chain of command would fail from the top down.

The fact that Bu$h, Rumsfeld and Myers all sat on their hands until the Pentagon was hit is where the criminal investigation should begin. The people at the top were the only ones with a full deck of playing cards. The fact that they knew about Project Bojinka will prove that they knew about al Qaeda's plans to fly airplanes into buildings. The US government convicted 3 terrorists with that info, it would be impossible for the current misadministration not to know about Project Bojinka.

With that in mind, then as soon as the first plane hit the first tower all three of these men knew exactly what was starting to happen. Yet they all played dumb? They not only played dumb, they didn't even have normal human reactions. All three put their blinders on and continued with their previously scheduled plans. Isn't is odd that everyone else in America stopped what they were doing as soon as they found out, but the 3 men who were the only ones who could connect all the dots didn't react at all?

So I say, the hell with what happened before and what happened after. What is most important is what happened during and why Bu$h, Rumsfeld and Myers did nothing, despite the fact that they knew exactly what was in progress.


http://www.cnn.com/US/9605/12/terror.plot/

Terrorism trial begins in New York
3 men accused of plotting to bomb U.S. planes

May 13, 1996


NEW YORK (CNN) -- Jury selection began in New York Monday in the federal trial of three men accused of plotting to bomb 11 planes headed for the United States on a single day in 1995.

Ramzi Yousef is charged with masterminding the plot. He also will be tried later this year, accused of planning the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993. Four men are already serving life in prison for that crime.

The alleged plot was discovered in the Philippines in January 1995, when a fire broke out in a Manila apartment 200 yards from the Vatican's embassy, a week before the arrival of Pope John Paul II.

Police were shocked by what they found inside: a smoking mixture of explosives in a sink, street maps and garments like those worn by the Pope's entourage, suggesting a plot to kill the Pontiff.

They also say they found computer disks containing detailed plans to blow up U.S. airliners.

edit: added Project Bojinka info

[Corgigal]

16. Good points

not only that,show the NORAD tapes that were taking inside the facility. They don't even have to play the sound. Just make sure you have a clock running on the tape and watch how people knew but it became stalled, somewhere for some reason.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

21. What makes less sense is that POTUS was allowed to continue

on a SCHEDULED public visit to a group of elementary school kids, just a few miles from an international airport.
Why didn't the Secret Service yank him out of there like they did Cheney and Rice in the White House?
If there is even the remotest chance of danger to POTUS, that is what they do, and they do it fast and do not take no for an answer from anyone.

Now that makes NO sense at all to me.

I am a retired federal law enforcement agent, I have worked with the SS many times.

This question to me, is the most crucial, and the most damning to * not having known in advance.

[Corgigal]

10. doesn't become invisible

goes into a primary mode. If they are using digital radar then they can find the aircraft, due to it's speed it's not as hard as you think, and then basically use a mouse type device and put a name on it. These planes were tracked. They were in controlled airspace with passengers on-board. They knew when the either turned off the transponders or didn't turn after a fix that something major was going on.
The controllers , which I heard live on some history channel show a year or so go, who worked in Newark knew and knew very quickly.

Hotlines were ringing everywhere. Of course they could just release these taped lines to prove it however for some vital national security reason they won't. HA

[sventvkg]

13. I believe in the conspiracy theory....

Call me crazy but too many things do not add up here...

[Military Brat]

11. No wonder bushco and friends fight so hard to keep info secret

For those who mock the conspiracy theory, how about a "culpable negligence" theory? How about an "incompetence theory"?

Something is seriously askew with the official story. I want to see the infamous PDB. I want truthful answers to honest questions.

"... controllers at La Guardia Airport, apparently unaware of the hijackings, continued to send out flights ..."

:wtf:

[0007]

12. After all planes were grounded and the bin Laden families were..

allowed passage by flying out of the country, were these aircraft carrying the bin Laden family members escorted by U.S. military planes to the bin Ladens' destination?

.....and why was it that the bin Laden family received this special privilege? .....and why isn't the media pressing for answers to these questions?

[0007]

14. I've read somewhere that James A. Baker was with members of the ..

bin Laden family in Washington D.C. Is that true? Where does the Carlyle Group fit into this picture?

Thomas Kean, the 911 Investigator has been said to have bin Laden ties.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO212A.html

Isn't this a conflict of interest?

[David Zephyr]

23. Where Did You Hear This?

For the record, Baker had to cancel his hunting trip with a Saudi prince in order to fly down to Florida to take over the GOP's Bush/Gore election contest in November and December.

Baker is getting world "leaders" to forgive Iraqi debt by bribing them with a briefcase full of Saudi money.

[kainah]

17. "fighter jets were racing toward the city"?

Uhm, what's the support for that statement??

[Cassandra]

20. I was wondering about that, too.

Who saw any fighter jets either over the city or on TV? I didn't see or hear any and none were pointed out at the time or in later documentaries.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

22. Yes, they were...at about 600MPH or so, headed for JFK

according to the timeline referenced above.

I clearly heard sonic booms all morning in NYC, mostly from a distance.

[paulthompson]

25. fighters to NYC?

I wrote the timeline mentioned above, and I should point out that while there's a lot of media documentation suggesting fighters were on their way by the time of the second WTC crash, there is the curious fact that that wasn't the first official story. In fact, the acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff testified before Congress two days after 9/11 that no fighters were sent up until AFTER the Pentagon crash, and others made similar comments. It wasn't until Sept. 14 that CBS broke the newly discovered news of the fighters.

Of course you heard sonic booms in NTC that morning, but the question is when? There were fighters eventually, but how soon did they arrive? Even if you accept the official version of when the fighters took off and arrived, they seemingly travelled extremely slowly - less than 500 mph despite having extra fuel and afterburners on and a maximum speed of 1800 mph. The officials have stated that the fighters typically make the distance from their Massachusetts base to NYC at 1100 mph, which would have put them in NYC before the second NYC crash. So why so slow, supposedly?

There's so much shifty playing around with numbers that both NORAD and the FAA have flatly refused the independent commission's request for more information, and they've just been forced to subpoena. Expect more cover up of the lies in the future.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

27. First off, thank you for the time line... it is wonderful!

I don't know. Time was kind of compressed and expanded for everyone that day.
I suspect that even officials had confusion about when things happened.
I agree with the general LIHOP theory, but as far as a conspiracy involving civil servants from several agencies? I have to resort to my Missouri roots on that one... show me.

Confusion and incompentence were the big winners that day.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. This was just a few people at the highest levels

Most of the folks on the ground, the civil servants were doing their best in the midst of a very confusing situation. The problem is at the top, the people who allowed confusion and incompetence to take over that day. When your leadership refuses to even acknowledge the fact that we were in the midst of a national emergency then all you can have is confusion. That is exactly what they wanted. If the captain of the ship doesn't take command then it is very difficult for the crew to do anything else but fail. 9-11 turned into a massive intelligence failure only because the people in command, ignored the call to duty when it came pounding on the door.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

35. I think you are right, but it does not explain some odd occurences

that you highlight on the timeline.

Of course, those could just be things that happen everyday and are only weird because of the events that happened.

Like the people who clear snow out of their snowblowers hundreds of times with no problem, then when they cut their hands off, everything is examined.

I still think the oddest event of the day was the Secret Service's lack of action in Florida. Cheney's SS detail litterally dragged him and Rice out of the WH, while POTUS's detail sat on their hands out in the field.

Usually a detail out in the field like that is much more cautious than the one at the WH. Why not that day?

[paulthompson]

36. consider...

It takes a conspiracy of many to actively create or do something. It takes a conspiracy of just a very few to simply let something happen.

Case in point on 9/11. Ben Smiley, an FAA administrator on the first day of his job (!), gave out the order in the middle of the 9/11 crisis to ban the takeoff of ALL planes. Time magazine notes this specifically included all military aircraft. Only a limited number were allowed up by orders of even higher authorities. Commanders at bases all over the country were calling in and offering to help, offering to send up fighters. These fighters sat on the ground because of this order.

So one person with one order stopped the expected military response from happening. Everybody else from the base commanders on down were just good people following orders. And the order could be made to sound reasonable - better be on the safe side - stop everything!

This is how a handful of people could have thrown monkeywrenches to prevent the wheels of gvmt from turning as they should have. Look at FBI high official Dave Fresca - pretty much singlehandly put a stop to three investigations that could have uncovered 9/11 before it happened, and then was given a commendation and pay bonus after 9/11.

Looking at LIHOP, there was no need for a vast conspiracy of thousands. That's a red herring put forth by people who don't understand how conpsiracies work. It's the same in a conspiriatorial company like Enron - think of the thousands of employees, 99% of the company, who were duped by a few at the top. Most people just follow their orders and don't understand who gave them or why or what the bigger picture is.

[peacetalksforall]

18. Everyone knows the timeline for Bush and the kids vs

the hits and the time gaps don't make sense in any way.

What's needed is the timeline comparisions for all the PNACers, all at the Pentagon, all in the CIA, all in the FBI, all in the military, all in the FAA, all of the banking friends ...AND...most importantly WE NEED TO KNOW ALL OF THE AIRLINE EMPLOYEES WHO WERE INVOLVED IN OPERATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS, before and after. If we don't look at every aspect of the UA and AA communications and all the other east coast airlines for their communications...we are nowhere.

Then, we need to know if the Kean group investigation will look at the put-options even though Mr. SS has said the case is closed. And, we need to know who are the people in the cabal who actually carry things out. And, we need to know the activities of the key admin and their subordinates in the weeks before. The need for data is massive and it comes out in a trickle. But, of course, 'they' don't think it should come out. And, :o}, we need to know where Grover Norquist was. ;o}. Was he in Nebraska at the breakfast of WTC corporate chiefs we heard about early on?

[gate of the sun]

19. didn't they allready know other plans were missing

at the time the first tower was hit or shortly thereafter? This is unexcusable but of course we allready knew this. People can believe or disbelieve the conspiracy if they want but where the hell was Norad?

[Skittles]

24. DERELICTION OF DUTY

DURING THAT HOUR AFTER THE FIRST TOWER WAS HIT, BUSH WAS READING A KIDDIE BOOK WHILE THE SECOND TOWER AND THE PENTAGON WERE HIT. NO REPORTER HAS EVER ASKED WHY OUR SO-CALLED COMMANDER IN CHIEF DID ABSOLUTELY F***ING NOTHING. WHY WEREN'T THESE BUILDINGS EVACUATED? BUSH HAD BEEN WARNED THE PREVIOUS MONTH ABOUT HIJACKINGS.

[grasswire]

26. fit in these pieces:

1. The drill being held the morning of 9-11 by the NRO and CIA, operated out of the Situation Room in the WH with Cheney and some other cronies in attendance. The drill scenario included an airplane crashing into a government building near Dulles airport.

2. The bin Laden family meeting with principle members of the Carlyle Group on the morning of 9-11 in Washington, including Baker.

3. Baker's legal representation of Saudis against the lawsuits filed by family members of 9-11 victims.

4. That odd scenario early 9-11 in Florida, where some ME men tried to crash the hotel property where * was staying and jogging.

5. The removal of all records from the FL flight school -- taken away in an airplane that contained Jeb Bush.

These are just some of the oddities that point to a coverup of something much bigger than we have been told.

[nodehopper]

32. wait, why is the New York Times suing Port Authority?

I think I missed something.

Thanks.