Church guard gains hero status

[kentuck]

Source: Rocky Mountain News

<snip>

"I'm single. No kids," she said, quickly adding she was on the lookout for a man. She drew a laugh when she first declined to give her age; then said she was 25. She is 42, according to public records.

Assam grew up in Sioux Falls, S.D., went to Hamline University and graduated with a criminal justice degree, said her twin sister, Jennifer, of Sioux Falls. She has five sisters and a brother.

She worked with the Minneapolis police for several years in the late '90s before leaving the department and moving to Colorado in 2000.

Lt. Robert Kroll, vice president of the Minneapolis Police Union, confirmed that Assam was fired over "truthfulness issues." In an internal investigation, Assam had denied she used derogatory language in an encounter with a citizen in the late 1990s, but a videotape proved differently, Kroll said. Assam appealed, but the firing was upheld by an arbitrator

Read more: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/11/volunteer-vaults-to-hero-status/

[CottonBear]

1. I've got a question: what kind of church needs armed security guards?

I grew up in the South and attended Baptist churches with my grandparents and Presbyterian church with my family for 18 years. There were no armed guards. No one ever had a gun in church or mentioned guns or gun rights.

For that matter no one ever denied the theory of evolution or discussed social issues like abortion and homosexuality.

[Ishoutandscream2]

2. One with lots and lots of money

[CottonBear]

3. That makes sense. The Colorado church must be a "Prosperity Gospel" church. n/t

[Xenotime]

56. Or a church with something to hide.

[krispos42]

4. Well, they have thousands of people at each service

I believe they claim over 10,000 members, so if half of them showed up on any given Sunday, that's 5,000 people, including small children, and some 2,000 cars. Some sort of security is in order. If that many people regularly attended, say, a high school football game or a minor-league baseball game, there would be police or security of some kind, if nothing else than to direct traffic.

Unfortunately, the church was absolutely right in their decision to have armed security. If that church, didn't have armed guards, the body cound would be much higher.

It is highly likely that Colorado has some law declaring churches and the real estate surrounding them "gun-free zones", which effectively negates any possibility of a private citizen with a legally carried concealed handgun from being there.

[CottonBear]

40. I've never been to a mega-church. I've just seen them on TV.

It was a tragic event. The young man was kicked out of the church's missionary school because of his strange behavior. It's too bad he didn't get (or maybe want) pyschiatric help for his condition.

[artboy]

6. were they

not asked to have armed security because of the OTHER church shooting as a precaution?

[Maddy McCall]

9. Yes.

And having security that day was a good decision, in my opinion. Regardless or the woman's character, she prevented mass slaughter.

[uncle ray]

18. they have security everyday

Jeanne Assam is actually the pastors personal security detail. that, no doubt, helps to explain her devoutness. i'm sure only the truest believer gets to protect the pastor with a gun.

i was curious how long until the details of here firing as an actual law enforcemet officer would come out. she got into plenty of her personal life in the press conference, but went mum when questions came up regarding the end of her employment as a law enforcement officer.

[Xenotime]

57. Did she shoot somebody else?

[pipoman]

8. It's too bad it has came to this.

Did any of those churches have 1,000 in attendance at one time? How about 7,000? These big churches like this one have schools (which do not have the benefit of a "school resource officer" unless it is private), day care centers, huge staff, etc. They are really no different than a large commercial campus like Microsoft etc.

It proved to be a good idea to have some armed security in this case huh?

[TCJ70]

67. I heard/read somewhere that she showed up because...

...of the other shooting that had happened before this.

[ileus]

104. at least two churches this past weekend needed armed security...

[sakabatou]

115. The synagogue I go to on the high holidays is armed

with a 9mm. He's a real cop, not a rent-a-force.

[IronLionZion]

116. megachurches have CEOs and private planes and stuff

and a few people get VERY wealthy from it. And yes, there are thousands and thousands of dollars in cash at these places. Things have changed. I have a big problem with people using God to get rich.

[bjorkfan]

119. If Neo-Nazis shot people in a black church should they fire back?

[CottonBear]

121. Goddammit. I am not against defending one's self nor am I anti-semitic or anti-Muslim

as others in this thread have alleged.

I simply had no idea that any church would need armed guards.

I grew up in the South going to church every week. Guns were not necessary. I have attended Presbyterian and Baptist churches for my whole life.

I don't know much about these mega-churches. There are none anywhere near where I live and I would never attend one nor do I know anyone who ever has.

Y'all need to chill out. It was a simple question and it has already been answered by another poster who, by the way, did not accuse me of being anti-gun, anti-semitic or anti-muslim or anti-black or pro neo nazi.

OK?

Jesus Christ on a fucking trailer hitch. :grr:

[Javaman]

5. I hope the right wing starts screaming for the need to carry weapons in churches now.

that is a side show I would love to watch.

:popcorn:

"our new meglo church is a fully equiped armed in the name of god religious center! Just have a look at our new John the Baptist machine gun nest!"

[ret5hd]

12. Will it be a cult if they have an armory?

[LiberalFighter]

15. Branch Davidian?

[Maddy McCall]

24. Yeah, because if a place where 1000s of people gather is getting threats of violence...

It's better to do nothing. Being sitting ducks is more Christian and all.

If this story were about a synagogue, mosque, or any other relgious gathering place, would your reaction be the same?

[Javaman]

54. ...

:rofl:

You are a riot!!!

[CottonBear]

112. I can understand now that I know that 1,000s of people attend.

I was not even thinking about synagogoues or mosques.

I have nothing against Christians. I ama a lapsed Christian, myself.

I have to say that I've never been to a mega-church and don't understand the appeal. It would seem to be so impersonal to be part of such a huge congregation.

I go to the local Unitarian church a few times a year. I quit going regularly to Presbyterian church when I was 18. I still attend with my mom on occasion.

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. One more good reason to avoid church.

[coalition_unwilling]

45. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition -n/t

[Javaman]

55. dang it!!!

How did I miss that one!!! LOL

[Critters2]

7. Truthfulness issues.

Not surprised.

[Maddy McCall]

10. Yeah, since she has a "past," she should have never killed the potential mass murderer.

Bad press and all.

[CottonBear]

113. She didn't kill him. She wounded him, stopping his rampage. Then he killed himself. n/t

[robcon]

11. She IS a hero.

She saved a lot of lives.

[Maddy McCall]

14. Yes...

but let's focus on the salacious, scandalous shit, because she's a woman and a Christian, and the dirty laundry in this case is more important than saving lives.

[slackmaster]

16. Not to mention that any time someone uses a gun he or she gets demonized

Even if it was a perfectly justified moral and legal use.

[Maddy McCall]

19. Yes...this case has it all, doesn't it?

Christianity, questionable women, and guns.

Just ripe for insults and snobbish comments against the victims and heroes of this story.

[uppityperson]

31. And don't miss her last name either.

Assam. I agree, she is a hero. Yes, she did what she was trained to do, but she also went forward when she could've gotten killed, didn't run in her fear.

[tom_paine]

28. On this we agree, robcon.

Sometimes DU can be an infuriating place.

[earthside]

29. An NRA 'Hero' - That's for Sure

We're going to get it by the truck loads from the NRA, fundamentalist 'Christians', Fox Noise, Slimebaugh and Beck, and the radical Republicans -- "She's a Hero! She shot back! Hallelujah!"

And we are going to get a good dose of how this shows that we should all be carrying guns to school, the mall, the campus, everywhere -- so that we can kill the 'bad guys' when they attack us.

Because, like the terrorists, the 'bad guys' are everywhere ... just waiting to kill us.

In fact, the only perceived difference between this volunteer guard and George W. Bush -- who protected us after 9/11, remember -- is that she is a woman. But they really are the same thing -- determined, Christian, resolved, strong people we should thank for protecting Americans.

Meanwhile, nobody is talking about the dead and wounded at these two churches, like the killed and wounded soldiers of Iraq, we love heroes ... dead people are just statistics.

Everything about what happened here in my city (Arvada) and in Colorado Springs is bad and sad, there aren't really any heroes, just tragedy from beginning to end.

[Maddy McCall]

33. NRA or not, she IS a hero. Should she not be recognized as such...

merely because what she did might be lauded by an organization you don't like?

I think that your post is rather knee-jerk, which is par for the course at DU anytime a gun is involved in a way that saves lives.

In my state, a high school teacher had a gun in his truck off campus when Luke Woodham decided to open fire on his classmates at Pearl High School. The coach ran to his truck off campus, grabbed his gun, and ended the slaughter.

He's a hero. Assam is a hero.

I think that your post kind of contradicts itself. If you feel that the attention should be placed on the victims of this recent tragedy, then by all means, quit griping about what MIGHT happen in the news and media re CCW laws and the NRA, and talk about the victims. There's stuff out there about them. I've read it.

If ANY organization has received threats, I think it would be stupid not to take measures to protect itself. This church did so. Sadly some people died, but fortunately many lives were saved, because this church decided to protect its members. That's the bottom line, and neither this church--nor Assam--should be condemned for that.

Oh, and I work on a college campus. I can tell you now that this incident won't change the very stringent laws in Mississippi that keep guns off campus. However, our campus has its own police force, and that makes me feel much safer, knowing that some guys and gals on campus are ready, should any insane nut decide to start shooting up campus. (They've handled incidents of guns on campus in the past, without violent outcome. They are trained to do so, and I trust their experience.)

[tom_paine]

36. Well said Maddy. How many different ways can you say it?

You are correct, this is a knee-jerk reaction, and I am a little ashamed of DU for these outbursts the last couple days.

I expected better of us DUers, but we're human, too.

[ChazII]

110. Awesome answer, Maddy.

Thank you for articulating a rational view point.

[superconnected]

50. At least she was a security guard and not a private citizen, while shooting

the killer.

That's the way it ought to be.

Plus, I get tired of reading about men going on shooting rampages and constantly shooting half or more women, while women rarely if ever go on shooting rampages. I'm glad it was a woman killing the bad man this time. That almost never happens. From the amount of women, men kill(far, far more than vice-versa), it's about farking time a woman took out one of these low lifes. (and yes, that sounds too wild west for me, I don't really like people having to *kill* others to stop them, I am glad she stopped them. I'm glad she's a woman.)

[Tejas]

106. female private citizen shooting a killer is "wrong"? this is a joke, right?

You can't be serious.

[bjorkfan]

120. It's only wrong if she's a Christian, apparently. Christian all deserve to be killed (sarc).

[JPZenger]

122. A Volunteer at the end of a 3 day fast

She was not only a volunteer, but she also was on the last day of a 3 day fast. (I fasted 24 hours once when I was much younger than her, and I was exhausted.)

This shows the advantage of having a WELL-TRAINED and disciplined armed guard (similar to a well-trained militia?). Others are claiming that it shows that everyone should keep a concealed handgun in their coat everywhere they go.

Note that the article said there were other armed guards on duty who did not react. She was the one.

This shooter had made violent threats to the people involved in this church before.

[Maddy McCall]

13. I don't care what the woman's done in her past...

I don't care if she credits God, Cthulu, L.Ron Hubbard, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster for putting her in the right place at the right time. She saved a LOT of people's lives.

You can bet that, if she were a man, no one would care much what her age, history, or marital status was.

[kestrel91316]

17. Couple of opinions:

#1 - That woman IS a hero. She saved MANY lives. Good on her. And I don't know or care if God or Satan or the Flying Spaghetti Monster steadied her aim.

#2 - Having increased security at the church on Sunday in light of the attack in Arvada the night before was a smart move.

That said, having increased security permanently would be overkill. The thunderstorm has passed, lightning struck, but now it's time to get back to normal. This act does not signal increased overall danger for churchgoers.

[Maddy McCall]

21. I agree...

with everything you said.

On the permanent security, let's hope that, after they get over the shock of what happened at their church, they change their minds on this.

[Bitwit1234]

20. No ....they sent armed security guards after they heard that

another church in the area had had shooting...I don't think they had them all the time. At least in one of the articles I read that's what it said...and I truthfully think it took a lot of courage. I think I would hesitated too long and get shot myself.

[uncle ray]

26. they have armed security all the time

and have for at least several years. the pastor said it in the press conference. they did step up security because of the other shooting. normal security is something like 12 guards, half of them with guns, and three colorado springs police on site during services. that's normal security during church services at NLC.

[Maddy McCall]

37. And it worked this time. So what's your beef?

They've received threats of violence in the past (death threats, arson threats, bomb threats) so they formed a volunteer security force of law-enforcement-trained members.

It worked. Lives were saved. What's your exact problem with that?

[Dr. Strange]

42. Fundy christian lives were saved.

A lot of people seem to be having a problem with that.

[uncle ray]

49. no problem whatsoever.

i was stating the facts as spoken in the press conference as to what their normal security procedure was. a previous poster has said they had this security just because of the shooting in Arvada. go look for your flamewar somewhere else.

[DinahMoeHum]

22. At least she was trained and licensed to carry a firearm.

Too many of the "gun nuts" calling for gun-carriers in every public place don't have that proper training.

[slackmaster]

23. That's a bit of a straw man

Every state has different requirements for issuance of a concealed weapons permit. Some are indeed lax and require only payment of a fee. Vermont and Alaska have no requirements other than age and a clean criminal record.

California's training and test requirement is typical.

Speaking on behalf of many DU "gun nuts", what we really want is objective standards applied everywhere - "Shall issue" laws with no bureaucrats' assessment of "need" or other subjective tests for an honest citizen to get a permit.

[DinahMoeHum]

38. They still better know how to use a firearm safely and properly. . .

and the California-style training and test requirement should be an across-the-board thing in all 50 states. (thanks for that info, BTW)

[benEzra]

62. To obtain a carry license here in NC...

I had to pass a Federal background check, a state background check, a mental health records check, get fingerprinted at my local sheriff's office, have my prints run by the FBI (clean), take a class on self-defense law using a state-mandated curriculum, pass a written test on self-defense law administered by the sheriff's office, and demonstrate competence with a handgun on a shooting range (live fire). Plus lots of money in fees and lots of time off from work jumping through the relevant hoops.

My problem with California's system isn't the NC-like requirements; it's the fact that California allows the sheriff to also consider not just whether the individual is qualified to be issued a license, but also whether or not the individual is a close personal friend, whether the individual is a campaign contributor, whether the individual "needs" the license badly enough (wealth is usually the criterion here) regardless of how well qualified, etc. North Carolina is "shall-issue", e.g. if you meet the statuatory qualifications, you will be issued a license.

[tom_paine]

27. What the hell is wrong with DU? She IS a hero, damnit.

I don't give a flying fuck what you think of the people who's lives she saved. If we start to view them as less than human beings (as they do us, most of the BushChristians) then we are as evil as they!

I don't give a flying fuck what is in her past. A madman was randomly muirdering innocents AND SHE STOPPED HIM!

My God, are we going to pick nits over soemthing like THAT?

I am not arguing this issue from the point of view of "what will the Bushies think when they hear us say this"? Who gives a fuck what those barbarians think of us?

This is just wrong to excoriate this woman, no matter what you might think of her personality or beliefs.

Some things, as I tell the occasional honest Republic that I meet, are NOT a matter of Right and Left, but Right and Wrong.

Now I am telling DU. Go ahead and flame away!

[uncle ray]

30. she could choose to be secretive.

for whatever reason, she seems to be loving the attention from the press.

the very basic facts of the shooting are that she rushed to the scene to shoot the gunman, she says God directly guided her to do that. do you expect a community like DU to just STFU and accept the story that God guided her heroism and allow her to thank God in every sentence she speaks without comment on her? she COULD let the churches PR person deal with the press. her training as a police officer should encourage her not to be seeking public attention in this situation. she really doesn't need to be broadcasting personal info about herself in a press conference about the shooting. her ten minutes of press time was like a script from a Lifetime TV drama.

[tom_paine]

34. So what? She's a human being. You want her to be a robot?

She might be guilty of bad behavior in loving the limelight a bit too much, but can any one of us truly say we wouldn't do the same having national adulation heaped on us?

I think that is something one can speculate on until blue in the face, but when something like that happens, all the talk is meaningless next to the reality.

I just can't get pissed off at her for that. It's not evil, it's human.

And what she did takes a lot of guts. She saved perhaps dozens or more lives with her guts. In some cases, that's all we need to know.

[Maddy McCall]

35. Damned uppity woman.

Killing a potential mass murderer, and then receiving acclaim for it.

Damned uppity woman should sit down and shut up.

(Isn't hyperbole something that women usually do? Funny that your post is loaded with it. And sexism.)

[uncle ray]

47. you're reading way too much into my post.

police officers involved in shootings generally do not seek the attention of the media for any reason. her gender has no relavance, and i certainly did not intend my post to reflect that. perhaps USA network would have been a better basic cable network to use to make my point her speech was, well, like something off of basic cable. pardon me for not being more careful in my choice of words.

i live in this nutcase town and have these people's religion affecting my everyday life, i'm entitled to have an opinion when they can't get through two sentences without mentioning god.

[Maddy McCall]

64. 1. She's not an officer.

2. Most shootings don't garner this much attention.
3. Not many officers or civilians have brought down multiple-murderers intent on killing hundreds in a church.
4. The media went to her for interviews. She responded, and told what happened. She thanked her god for guiding her. Duh. She's a mamber of Christian church.

I'm no fan of megachurches, in particularly the one where this all happened. Indeed, I'm no fan of institutionalized religion. Still, no one's religion should damn them to being shot in church.

[Tejas]

107. Jealousy is eating many alive

"her ten minutes of press time was like a script from a Lifetime TV drama."

And you watched every dripping second of it.


(just picking at ya ;) )

:woohoo:

[dicknbush]

32. Meanwhile our sons and daughters are dying for this:

The Iraqi government has ordered all policewomen to hand in their guns for redistribution to men or face having their pay withheld, the Times reports. The move thwarts a U.S. initiative to bring women into the nation's police force.

The Interior Ministry, which oversees the police, issued the order late last month, according to ministry documents, U.S. officials and several of the women. Probably sensing this was going to tick off the Americans, ministry officials refused to pick up the phone or return messages when Times reporter Tina Susman called asking for an explanation.

Critics say the move is the latest sign of the religious and cultural conservatism that has taken hold in Iraq since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein ushered in a government dominated by Shiite Muslims. Other recent signs include a dozen women killed by religious militants in Basra for not covering their hair or dressing modestly. In Baghdad, once a secular metropolis, it is rare to see women without scarves covering their hair.

[dbonds]

39. AP: Police say autopsy results show Colorado church gunman Matthew Murray killed himself.

Thats the breaking news on CNN.

[Xenotime]

58. Ha! That means she missed!

[RamboLiberal]

59. Go read the stories - she hit him several times

Bullet wounds are not always fatal - especially immediately. He just finished himself off.

[MilesColtrane]

41. On the same page, "El Paso County Coroner: Church Shooter Matt Murray Killed Himself"

I'll give Assam the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe she really believed that she was the one who "took him out".

To bad for her, the fact that she was fired for lying will make many question her veracity in this case.

Nevertheless, it was a brave act on her part to try to stop this guy.

on edit: she hit him several times, so she did, in fact, take him down, if not out.

[donheld]

43. Here's your link

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=82588

[coalition_unwilling]

44. Police: Church Gunman Killed Himself (from a separate LBN thread).

How, pray tell, does this make her a hero?

[Robb]

46. Heroes don't always "win"

The coroner's not denying she put several rounds into him, only that the shooter finished himself off.

It's awful. But I'm with the self-proclaimed "gun nuts" and other sensibles here. "Hero" might be strong, but she's certainly got salt, and deserves credit -- along with whoever else ran toward the gunfire to try to stop it.

And that comes from me, someone who despises that the world has guns in it.

[tomhayes]

48. He would have probably killed himself but she got him to do it earlier

Sounds like he was someone in a terminal mental state trying to kill everyone and then himself. She probably convinced him to do it earlier.

And maybe it'll make her feel better that she stopped him but did not kill him. Killing someone (even for good reasons) probably carries a big mental burden.

[vincent_vega_lives]

53. "She probably convinced him to do it earlier."

Source?

[tomhayes]

61. No source, just made sense to me

I mean she "convinced him" by shooting him and stopping his ability to move around at will.

I didn't mean she talked with him.

And i could alwys be wrong too.

[vincent_vega_lives]

52. She stopped the spree

by shooting him several times.

The gunman had 1,000 rounds on him. Difficult to reload, walk when shot multiple times.

If SHE hadden't he most likley would have went on shooting. Of course now you can critizie her for not putting a bullet between the eyes.

[crawfish]

51. All I know is,

if some crazy guy is shooting in a crowded area where my wife, my kids or I is walking, I hope there is an armed woman as brave as she is around to risk the ire of the DU faithful.

[progressivebydesign]

60. She was fired from the police department, actually. for lying. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

63. So? What's the impact of her past on this story?

Were there not witnesses that saw her shoot the assailant on Sunday that have verified what transpired?

[RamboLiberal]

65. Yeah like we're all perfect and never lied to cover our butts on the job

She lied that she swore at a bus driver but to her misfortune the exchange was caught on tape.

Maybe there were other issues that got her fired or maybe her department just doesn't tolerate that.

In Pittsburgh we had a big brouhaha that several officers got big promotions though they had been involved in domestic violence complaints. One of those officers also had a case that got big publicity in the past for assaulting a Grateful Dead fan.

[Maddy McCall]

66. Some departments go out of their way to find reasons to fire women officers.

If my guy friends on our local force were fired for cursing at folks, we'd have no police.

:)

If that's all the dirt that can be dug up on this woman, it's no big concern, in my opinion.

Here's the snippet from the article that supports what you said:

Assam is a former Minneapolis police officer who was fired for lying during an internal investigation, officials said.

The president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis says police were investigating a complaint that Assam swore at a bus driver while she was handling an incident on a city bus.

He says Assam denied that she swore at the driver, but her actions were caught on tape.

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/12369751.html

[JPZenger]

123. Same as Olympic Park Guard

Remember during the Atlanta Olympics? A security guard found a bomb in the crowded Olympic Park and directed hundreds of people away from it, saving them from serious injury or death. He could have just run away and saved his own skin.

Then, the media found out he had been fired from a previous security guard job for lying. They were convinced that he must have planted the bomb himself to pretend he was a hero, and they persecuted the guy. It took years until the Feds finally got around to arresting the real bomber, and clearing the guard's name.

[Dr. Strange]

125. Hadn't thought about that.

Some interesting similarities there...

[question everything]

68. Guard who shot Colorado gunman had been fired from Mpls. force

Source: AP

Guard who shot Colorado gunman had been fired from Mpls. force

By AMY FORLITI , Associated Press

Last update: December 11, 2007 - 5:49 PM

The security guard credited with bravery for shooting a gunman at a Colorado church was fired from her job as a Minneapolis police officer in the 1990s for lying, Minneapolis police officials said Tuesday. But that didn't bother officials at New Life Church. Pastor Brady Boyd said Jeanne Assam's license to carry a gun, and to work at other police departments, persuaded leaders to allow her to serve on a voluntary security detail at the Colorado Springs church.

(snip)

Sgt. Jesse Garcia, a Minneapolis police spokesman, said Jeanne Assam worked at the department from March 1993 to November 1997. She was fired for lying during an internal investigation. Sgt. John Delmonico, president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis, said police were investigating a complaint that Assam swore at a bus driver while she was handling an incident on a city bus.

"In giving a statement about the incident, she was untruthful and she was fired," Delmonico said. The swearing was caught on tape, he said. "The union arbitrated the case and the arbitrator upheld the termination."





Read more: http://www.startribune.com/local/12356581.html

[piedmont]

69. Big whoop. nt

[Bluebear]

70. 'She was fired for lying during an internal investigation.' - That's a sin, Jeanne.

Tsk. :evilgrin:

[slackmaster]

72. Lying is a sin only if it involves bearing false witness

Most common lies are not considered sins.

[Bluebear]

74. That explains a lot of religious thinking then.

[Paladin]

101. And Besides, She's Got That Svelte Figure---Right, Slack?

n/t

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RamboLiberal]

71. So what

Has squat with what she did Sunday. As I mentioned in other threads I bet there are a few of us who have lied on the job to cover our butts. And a few of us who have sworn at someone on the job. She swore at a city bus driver. It was on tape and she was caught lying.

Maybe she had other issues with the PD. They claim her records were so old they were disposed of.

Yeah the way she credits God for everything Sunday creeps me out - but still Sunday she acted correctly with courage and guts and probably saved a lot of lives.

I'm sure we'd all stand up to public scrutiny with shining records of our past. :sarcasm:

Show me the person who never lies, even Christians! Oh and if you read the OP article it notes she's new to her faith.

From OP article:

"She is a fairly new believer in Christ," Boyd said of Assam and her background in Minneapolis. "If you go back in any of our pasts, you can dig up something on any of us. She admittedly made lots of bad decisions, but only in the past few months did she become a devoted follower of Christ. Her life has changed. She was let go, but that happens every day to good people."

"I don't want her to be convicted or crucified for being a heroine. That's why a lot of people don't get involved _ for the scrutiny after the fact. She did the right thing at the right time."

[question everything]

76. Just to remind us that she is not a saint

before we canonize her.

[slackmaster]

73. That settles it - Nothing she says or does for the rest of her life counts

:eyes:

[superconnected]

75. so if someone pulls someone from a fire

does their past work history negate their future good deeds?

I don't think the news has explained whether she found God before or after she lied yet. Actually, I just don't see her checkerd past as part of this.

[Nailzberg]

77. Rightfully so, but she wasn't necessarily a bad cop.

But she lied about an incident under review.

Ironically, the complaint against her, that she swore at a bus driver while handling an incident, probably would have earned her a reprimand and maybe a few days off. Dishonesty, if only to cover yourself for swearing, is not tolerated. She got caught on tape in her lie, there was no way they were keeping her on the job.

and on edit: I do not believe it in any way diminishes the courage she displayed Sunday.

[Android3.14]

78. The ladie's lies aren't the point, why does a church need armed guards?

Since when do churches hire armed guards?

I don't know about you guys, but this is really bizarre to me.

Is this one of those freaky Jesus Camps? What kind of "missionary training" requires armed guards?

Sure, we can say that the ends justified the armed guards, but that doesn't answer the question.

What is happening at this missionary training center that would prompt them to have armed guards?

[question everything]

79. Interesting observation

Several years ago Minnesota - under the guidance of a Republican governor and assembly - passed a concealed weapon law. The churches were the first to put signs that guns were banned in their buildings. I think that they even went to court to argue that they had the right to ban them.

Since then, most public buildings have similar signs. Won't warm the hearts of Republican conventioneers..

And welcome to DU AndroidPi

[RamboLiberal]

80. It's a growing trend to have guards - especially megachurches

Churches want to present an open and welcoming image, but in an era of mass-casualty shootings and terrorism threats, the violence at New Life highlights a new emphasis on security. Some of the nation's estimated 1,200 megachurches — places where more than 2,000 worshippers gather each week — have been quietly beefing up security in recent years, even using armed guards to protect the faithful.

Meanwhile, many more, often smaller congregations typically don't have detailed security plans because they don't have the money or don't want to risk turning people away.

At Potter's House, a Dallas megachurch led by star pastor T.D. Jakes, a private security company employs a team of armed, unarmed, uniformed and plainclothes guards that keep watch over crowds in the thousands. Under a new Texas law, all nonprofits must use licensed security guards, and the church hired Classic Security in response, said Sean Smith, who formerly led the church's security detail and now works for the company.

For the past three years, Potter's House has hosted a church security conference, drawing more than 400 people this year to sessions on surveillance, background checks and other issues. Although precautions can be costly, money spent on security can end up being far less than liability and lawsuit risks if no action is taken, the church says.

"You see (security) anywhere but churches," Smith said. "You see it in malls, at banks, at concerts. Somehow, at churches we feel immune to violence. But it's been proven not to be the case."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jeL1eqhelWeete0Tben9XKVyXbbQD8TF0JF80

[piedmont]

82. You apparently haven't read about what happened.

This article covers most of it: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/11/colorado.shootings/index.html

[slackmaster]

83. Because any place where large numbers of people gather makes a good target for a mucker

Especially if no weapons are allowed.

[saigon68]

89. That is a BIG COLLECTION PLATE mucho $$$$$$$$$$$

Those fuckers make millions strip mining the pockets of the "FAITHFUL"

I'll bet they have an armored car take their "LOOT" away.

[Nailzberg]

93. You've got it mixed up. There were two shootings 12 hours and 80 miles apart.

The first was at the Youth With a Mission center, where two people were killed and two injured. There were no armed guards at that site. The police were tracking the fleeing suspect but lost him.

The second attack occurred at the New Life Church 80 miles away, which had instituted security precautions after hearing news about the shootings at mission center.

There were no paid armed guards, just some volunteers from the congregation that held concealed weapons permits. Those volunteers heard the gunshots in the parking lot and confronted the gunman, ending the second attack.

I hope this straightens out your questions.

[RamboLiberal]

95. News reports made it clear that New Life was using these

volunteers as armed security before the Sunday incidents. Assam normally guarded the pastor, but she suggested and took the other duty after hearing about the first shooting. One report I read said New Life normally has 6-12 armed volunteers on duty during services.

[Nailzberg]

97. Thanks, hadn't heard that.

The news did say that security was implemented due to the first shooting, but perhaps that meant an increase in their security.

Still, I don't fault a church with 10,000 parishioners and all that money from having some security around. I think it's quite responsible of them. If its a regular thing, perhaps they should be using licensed guards and not volunteers.

[JPZenger]

124. This guy had made many threats against the church

National Public Radio had a story about the many violent threats this guy had made against people in the church. Some were posted on internet bulletin boards. Apparently, the church people intended to help him vs. get him arrested.

The morning before this shooting, there was another church shooting nearby by the same gunman. After the first shooting, the church called in extra security help.

[MnFats]

81. IN addition...aren't they now saying it wasn't her shot that killed the guy?

he took his own life....

[piedmont]

84. He only shot himself after having been shot several times by her. nt

[RamboLiberal]

86. Another so what

The coroner said she put several rounds in to him. She stopped him. It was at that point he decided to finish himself off. From what I read she wounded him several times in the leg. If he couldn't walk, he couldn't continue his attack.

[MnFats]

92. OK, OK. my post was mainly a request for info. not a comment.

[RamboLiberal]

96. Sorry - just been so many wacky threads on DU last 2 days

about this.

[Nailzberg]

94. The kill shot was his own, yes. But it was her actions that ended the threat.

He had suffered multiple gunshot wounds prior to taking his own life.

[BadgerLaw2010]

100. Her shots probably did kill him. He didn't want to wait around to find out.

[LisaL]

85. The incident she was fired for doesn't sound like a serious incident.

She swore at someone? Big deal.

[RamboLiberal]

87. I agree - I would think being caught lying about that would

rate some time off w/o pay. There may have been other incidents in her file, but still doesn't negate what she did Sunday.

[Pastiche423]

88. She was fired because she lied

[LisaL]

98. And of course nobody else ever does lie.

:eyes:

[Pastiche423]

99. Does everyone lie during an internal investigation?

[Harper_is_Bush]

90. Wow. The USA has developed a strange cultural habit of digging into everyone's personal life...

I don't remember it being like that always. Since around 2000 I think it really got fired up.

[RamboLiberal]

91. There's a link from a community group on complaint against her

http://www.charityadvantage.com/CUAPB/PoliceComplaintsA-F.asp

http://www.charityadvantage.com/CUAPB/JeanneAssam.asp

She had 3 complaints in her jacket - first two dismissed. Years were 93, 96 and 97. Nothing on what they were.

Be interesting to see if she's trashed before end of week. We're such a media driven society.

[question everything]

103. Well, yes

There are so many stories about her, how she found god, etc., so if you are going to expose yourself, might as well do the whole show.

Or, do you think that only the god stuff should be told about her?

It were different if she just said: "I did what I had to do." Period. But as long as she opened up, then there are no limits on what should and should not be discussed.

As far as digging into everyone's personal life, you can thank Oprah who elevated it into art, where people come and tell everything about themselves, the most personal details (or so I've heard).

I sometimes at the treadmill and her show is on. I don't listen to it, but just viewing some of it is quite bizarre.

[pipoman]

105. You sure you mean Oprah? Jerry Springer maybe, I always thought Oprah was pretty straightup..

[Harper_is_Bush]

108. "or do you think only the god stuff should be told about her"

Quick mention - God is capitalized. It's a proper noun.

The "God stuff" is something she said herself in answer to questioning. Your perception that she "opened up" and therefore made herself fair game for "no limits" is misguided, at best.

It is an uncalled for and uneccessary investigative intrusion into a persons life, nothing less.

[daleo]

109. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

I guess you can't blame them for not turning the other cheek.

[Mike Daniels]

117. So, everyone just stands around waiting to be shot or flees in a panicked mob?

Those seem to be the only alternatives in this particular instance.

Do you honestly think approching the guy and trying to talk to him was going to work in this case?

[pleah]

111. Leave to these so called (Christians)

to celebrate one murder and condemn another. And what the hell are they doing with armed guards in a church anyway?

[saigon68]

114. Its the Huge Collection Plate You know the one that

Contains the Thousands "Strip Mined" from the pockets of the Faithful Lambs

Wouldn't want some Criminal stealing the spoils of the Sermon

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

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