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EXCLUSIVE: Kucinich Letter Cites Miscounts in NH, Requests State Carry Out 'Complete Recount'

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BradBlog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:16 AM
Original message
EXCLUSIVE: Kucinich Letter Cites Miscounts in NH, Requests State Carry Out 'Complete Recount'
Source: BRAD BLOG

EXCLUSIVE: Kucinich Letter Cites Miscounts in NH, Requests State Carry Out 'Complete and Accurate Recount of All Ballots'
Democratic Presidential Candidate Details 'Significant Percentage Variances,' from 4 to 10%, Discovered So Far During Hand Counts as Paid for by His Campaign

SoS Downplays Mistallies After One County Counted: No Changes 'As Far as Where the Candidates Finished'...

Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) is requesting that New Hampshire's Secretary of State, William Gardner, "order a complete and accurate recount of all ballots in the New Hamsphire Democratic Presidential Primary election," according to a letter sent this morning, as obtained by The BRAD BLOG.

The letter (posted in full at end of this article) expresses concerns about "significant percentage variances in four voting districts in Hillsborough County" before detailing a number of the discrepancies revealed by the post-election hand count in Concord, as paid for by the Democratic Presidential candidate's campaign.

The count was suspended this morning, when "funds ran out", according to the NH SoS website, making way for a Republican hand count challenge by candidate Albert Howard to begin tomorrow, as The BRAD BLOG reported earlier today.

"The magnitude of the variances in the four voting locations raise questions about the integrity of the internal vote accounting procedures in use in Hillsborough County," wrote Kucinich. "A reconciliation of the records of votes cast to voters who signed in and received ballots should have detected these problems; why multiple locations with large over-voting discrepancies went undetected in Hillsborough remains unexplained."

Kucinich's references, detailed in the two-page letter, refer to counts in Nashua Ward 5 where there were variances discovered in the counting as high as 4.9%; in Manchester Ward 5 where tallies varied 10.6% and in New Ipswich, which saw 7.5% differences in the hand count totals from the original count for one candidate. Those districts were all tabulated on Election Day solely by error-prone, hackable Diebold optical-scan voting systems.

As well, the hand counts revealed 100 fewer votes actually existed for Barack Obama, in the town of Wilton, than were actually recorded for him on the night of the election...

FULL STORY, KUCINICH LETTER TO NH SOS GARDNER:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5598

Read more: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5598
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. that could be interesting!
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. so basically, it appears that none of the notable voting discrepancies were machine-caused
but were all the result of human error.

Not sure why pursuing this further is a good idea as it will only provide fodder for those who argue that machine counting is as reliable, or moreso, than hand counting.

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Someone programs the machines, so machine errors are also human errors n/t
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. but the errors were not made by the machines. They were made by humans
In one of the wards, no machines were in use. In the others, the mistakes apparently were made when the machines properly counted the votes, but human error occurred afterwards with respect to votes that were put in the wrong part of the ballot. At least that's how I understood it.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Elections are whole systems including both people and machines
Both require constant auditing in order to trust the results. My laboratory scale very, very rarely fail their daily standard weight tests. Gravimetric errors are therefore usually the fault of the scientist or technician. Does that mean that we get to skip the standard weight routine now? Not just no, but FUCK NO!!!!
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Dumak Donating Member (397 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I agree with you 100%
I don't see why it shouldn't be standard procedure to always have a fast machine count, followed by a slower hand count.
The election workers should know that there is a significant chance that their work will be checked. There have been plenty of instances of ballots being mishandled, and memory cards 'lost', etc. I don't understand why so many people assume that Kucinich is thinking that Hillary didn't really win. There are a lot of reasons why a hand recount is a good thing. In fact, I think Hillary herself should have asked for a recount.
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:23 PM
Original message
human error, or human intervention.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. Dennis, Dennis, Dennis. We need to have a talk.
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 03:02 AM by Voltaire99
You're such a good soul, and far too noble and honest to be ensnared in the dirty business of a Democratic primary.

You know how these things work. The machine turns out its stalwarts.

They vote for the machine. The machine games the turnout, and if the results aren't pleasing, games the count.

Dennis, better than your supporters you know how much your politics are despised by the centers of power in the Democratic Party. Yours is hippie stuff to them. McGovern -- ugh! -- stuff. Yesterday!

You're an agent of change. The party represents the status quo. It loathes you. Despises you.

The rules could be no clearer. As long as you play the pied piper as you did in 2004, leading the idealistic back to the pre-selected corporate candidate, you can continue to play at being a presidential candidate. You'll be tolerated. You can attend a few debates in the beginning, no more. That's it.

Step out of line, however, make too much a nuisance of yourself, and this party will come down on you with its own Shock & Awe. Bill Clinton's too busy being sicc'd like a junkyard dog on Obama right now, but there are plenty of other tools available to the DLC to make you miserable if you irritate it.

Dennis, I admire you. I like the quixotic efforts, the cherished ideals. I would vote for you with pleasure, but today's Democratic Party -- by which I mean the flatulence given form in all the corporate money that sustains and governs it -- would never in a million years allow a Kucinich candidacy. Nor will the press, who bat for the same team as your party bosses.

Let's at least be honest enough to admit that your campaign is only being indulged as a sideshow, a distraction, a ruse meant to maintain corporate control over party and the country. They let you play because you'll help soak up the young idealists and, inevitably, break to them the tough news that change takes time and it's not our moment (and never is) and we must support Hillary.

I'd like to hear you admit as much. I'd like you to stop pretending that you can rise in a corrupt process as the leader of a corrupt establishment. You can't and you won't. Let's talk about why.
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LeFleur1 Donating Member (973 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Hillary Got More
In the recount that was done so far Hillary got more votes than were originally counted.
Oh Well...those who are against Hillary don't really care about the votes. What makes those so insultingly against her different from the Republicans?

Count the damn votes and recount them, but stop pretending it's Hillary's fault that the votes aren't counted accurately.
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Moloch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. Shut out of the debates...
this is the only way for Kucinich to get publicity.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. I don't care WHO challenges the elections system, it needs challenging!
Democracy is far too important, WE THE PEOPLE need confidence that our votes count. Why oh why would ANYONE here of all places want any of these elections to go by unchallenged? There is FAR too much evidence that the system is having serious problems... all this shit about Kucinich does absolutely nothing about the problem, it is a distraction! WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DISTRACT THOSE WHO WANT TO INSURE DEMOCRACY????. Democracy is the bottom line, without an accurate counting of our votes, DEMOCRACY DIES. GET IT???

extra credit: make a list of those who would likely choose to distract America from taking an interest in the importance of accurate vote counts.

My most profound thanks to the candidates on both sides who have taken it upon themselves to challange the NH Primaries. The hopes and dreams of an entire nation rests upon what you do here.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. Diebold rakes in billions. NH does NO automatic handcount (0% audit). And...
ordinary people have to pay, out of their own pockets, to get any votes counted.

I'm not kidding when I say that the fascist coup that we have suffered occurred in October 2002, with the passage of the falsely titled, "Help America Vote Act" (HAVA) -- a $3.9 billion electronic voting boondoggle, to fast-track these extremely insecure and insider riggable voting machines all over the country, before the 2004 (s)election.

Same month as the Iraq War Resolution (and closely related to it). But, now they've got their war - what else do they want?

Hm-m. Endless war. Endless corporate gas, credit card and all manner of price gouging. More torture. More jailing without trial. More spying. What else? Anything their greedy, fascist hearts desire, really.

The bad guys now have direct control of our election outcomes. Think about it. And they are...

DIEBOLD (now called "Premier"): Until recently, headed by Wally O'Dell, a Bush-Cheney campaign chair and major fundraiser (a Bush "Pioneer," right up there with Ken Lay), who promised in writing to "deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush-Cheney in 2004";

ES&S: A spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture), with initial funder and major investor, rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who also gave one million dollars to the extremist 'christian' Chalcedon Foundation (which touts the death penalty for homosexuals, among other things). (Diebold and ES&S have an incestuous relationship; until recently, they were run by two brothers, Bob and Tod Urosevich); and

SEQUOIA: The third major election theft industry player, which hired Republican Bill Jones (former Calif Secretary of State), and his chief aide, Alfie Charles, to peddle their machines--after they sold California on non-transparent electronic voting during their tenure of "public service."

These are the people who are "counting" more than 80% of the nation's votes, under a veil of corporate secrecy.

0% audit in many states (no paper trail at all, or, even if they have one, they don't count any ballots - as in NH). 1% audit in the "best" states (miserably inadequate in a 'trade secret" code system). Plus: a new culture of secrecy in our election offices - the public is barred from info. and other oversight capabilities - laws making recounts difficult and expensive, laws protecting corporate "trade secret" code (no one - not even our secretaries of state - is permitted to review it); electronic purges of minority (Democratic) voters; "Voter ID" to bar even more minority and poor votes, expenditure of billions of tax dollars to rightwing corporations for the simple act of voting and counting the votes, etc., etc. Secret, private, corporate-run elections have many implications and impacts, beyond just the "trade secret" code.

The poor having to pay to get the votes counted is only one of them.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. BradBlog is a fundraising scam
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 12:47 PM by Stewie
"As well, the hand counts revealed 100 fewer votes actually existed for Barack Obama, in the town of Wilton, than were actually recorded for him on the night of the election..."

Notice how he say "recorded for him on the night of the election." That's because the person writing in the totals wrote the wrong number, realized it and quickly fixed it. It was never any official vote total. That's the same thing as someone doing their taxes, accidentally writing the wrong number, erasing it, writing the correct one and the IRS accusing them of fraud.

Fully 40 percent of all ballots have been recounted by hand. Obama lost only seven votes. That's around a fraction of a tenth of a percent.

So why is BradBlog using carefully-worded phrases and cutting out key facts to make it look like the election was stolen and he can prove it?

Just read the text at the bottom of every page:
The BRAD BLOG is fighting for your democracy in 2008. Please help us fight!
CONTRIBUTE ONLINE NOW!

He's no different than those preachers who claim they can get you into Heaven, if they only has another $25 in their bank account.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's a ridiculous charge! And how much have YOU done for election reform?
Your charge is illogical. You leap from one fact --which may or may not be true (--and why should I trust your coloration of it (that it was a "mistake")?--to the whole web site being a "scam."

By your illogic, any non-profit that ever had a quesionable fact on its web site, and asks for donations, is a scam. The one thing - a possibly mistaken fact - does not follow from the other.

Brad Friedman has done incredibly good work, getting information to the public about our highly non-transparent, and extremely insecure and insider riggable, corporate-run, "trade secret," electronic voting system. Now THERE'S a scam for you! We pay billions of our tax dollars to Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia to steal our elections!

Activists need money. It is not a "scam" to ask for it. By your illogic, only big corporations and our fascist government and the very rich get to promulgate information and opinion. THEY get to tell the public what's important, while the rest of us our barred by poverty and having to make a living. And I don't hear you complaining about the crap THEY are telling people - the incredible lies, the black holes of information, the delusions - about our election system. No, you pick on a "little guy" who is making waves because he's so-o-o right about this subject.

And please tell us: What have YOU done for election reform, that even comes close to what Brad Friedman has done?

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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. A "scam" is raising money for a non-existent problem like "fraud" in New Hampshire.
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 01:18 PM by Stewie
BradBlog keeps screaming there are "massive errors" in the New Hampshire count (using carefully-worded, intentionally vague phrases), that Obama lost 100 votes in just one town (by going off what one guy wrote down accidentally and not the official, verified count, though he wants you to think that's what he's talking about) and he needs your money.

The truth is only 32 votes out of about 100,000 counted were miscounted. Obama himself only lost seven votes, or 0.02 percent.

But Friedman dances around that and tries to terrorize people into giving him money for a problem that doesn't exist, namely "massive election fraud" in New Hampshire.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. "Terrorize" people into giving him money? Come on.
Your intemperate language is a giveaway. I have no reason to trust you at all, or your facts.

It's a ridiculous charge that you have now made even more ridiculous, by calling Brad a "terrorist." You remind me of Donald Rumsfeld and his 12/1/07 oped in WaPo, implying that Hugo Chavez is a "terrorist" because he was negotiating with the FARC leftist guerrillas in Colombia to get hostages released (and got two of them released last week, despite Donald Rumsfeld's dim view of the matter). The hysteria of calling people "terrorists" is a Bushite tactic. With them, it simply means that they themselves are the "terrorists" (--whatever they accuse others of, it almost always turns out, they themselves are doing). But what does it mean with you? Why the overkill on Brad Friedman?
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Now you're the one being hysterical.
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 01:49 PM by Stewie
I'm simply pointing out that he's fleecing people by cooking up scary stories hoping to frighten people into thinking New Hampshire was stolen. You're the one who ran off screaming into the wilderness about Hugo Chavez and "Bushite" conspiracies.

My problem is scam artists who fuel delusional paranoia for their own profit. Not only is it just plain wrong, it distracts attention from the real issues and makes the Democratic base look like a bunch of easily fooled rubes.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Now it's multiple "scary stories." Got any others?
And, nope, not talking about "conspiracies" re: Hugo Chavez and Bushites. U.S. Embassy party, on the night of the 2002 coup attempt, with the coupsters there, and the entertainment was theater portraying Hugo Chavez as a gorilla. I couldn't make this stuff up, Stewie. The Bushites ARE conspiring to topple Chavez, and HAVE conspired to do it - and have done so repeatedly. I have studied this issue extensively, and this is my prognosis: U.S. military intervention, this year, first target, (Chavez alley) Bolivia (in support of a fascist split-up of the country). That is not a wild theory. That is based on extensive knowledge of past godawful U.S. activity in South America, current Bushite policy of supporting greedy, murderous fascists in South America and trying to destroy democratic countries, extensive news analysis, understanding of the stakes (which go beyond oil, and include the World Bank/IMF and other global corporate predators), events in Bolivia and other factors (such as, Rumsfeld's urgency is based on their diminishing strategic ground - for instance, Ecuador's leftist president has promised to kick the U.S. military base out of Ecuador this year; and, the Bushites are losing the political war - and are being ridiculed for their sloppy dirty tricks - in fact, they have almost no political ground left in South America - and they are desperate to regain control of the oil, to extend the "war on drugs" boondoggle, and to look like they are accomplishing something for their paymasters).

Screaming? I'm not screaming. I'm just warning - it's my educated guess that this is what's being planned.

Your accusations against Brad Friedman grow more extreme with each post. Now he's "fueling delusional paranoia." Is it delusional to be scared shitless of rightwing Bushite corporations 'counting' all our votes with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, and virtually no audit/recount controls? That's not paranoia. That's common sense. And if THIS isn't a "real" issue to the "Democratic base," I don't know what should be. How about the trillion non-existent tax dollars pouring into war profiteer pockets, amidst a $10 trillion deficit, with the approval of our so-called 'Democratic' Congress? But no, why waste our breath, when the candidate nominees and 'winners' of both parties are being determined by rightwing Bushite corporations with 'TRADE SECRET' code?

You think, if New Hampshire can somehow establish proper "chain of custody" on its Diebold memory cards and other election components, and can somehow prove that they conducted a proper recount, that that is somehow going to show that we can TRUST our elections to Bushite "trade secrets"?

Bradblog and others have already established sufficient cause to distrust this NH recount, and, even if we could trust its results (cuz they at least have ballots TO count, although they routinely DON'T COUNT THEM), that doesn't mean that, a) the count will be accurate in FUTURE Diebold elections in NH, or b) that it will be accurate anywhere in the country - with many states having ZERO audit (no ballots to recount, or, if they have ballots, they don't count them), and the best of states doing only a miserable 1% audit (totally inadequate in a "trade secret" code system).

I heard today that NH recount is being stopped, cuz Kucinich doesn't have enough money. They let Diebold "count" the votes. They pay them multi-millions of dollars for these crapass, extremely insecure and insider riggable machines. They don't do ANY audit - no automatic recount, not even 1%. And then they require that ordinary people PAY to get the votes counted.

What's wrong with this picture, Stewie? And why are you attacking Bradblog, and not Diebold and the corrupt politicians who sold our democracy to these REPUBLICAN corporations?

You are looking at things through the wrong end of the telescope--or rather, from the mirror world of Alice in Wonderland. And the real world looks strange to you - the real world of common sense, where people vote and the votes are counted in public view. Not half-counted. Not 1% counted. Not 3% counted. Not semi-counted, in a world of disappearing "memory cards." And not counted at the expense of ordinary people. But 100% counted, in public view - at our common expense (and a reasonable expense it is, too, compared to Diebold & co.).

The real world of common sense in which democratic countries do not slaughter 1.2 million people to get their oil.

You are throwing a lot of attack words at me (and at Brad Friedman). So I'm going to throw one at you: jabberwocky. You are guilty of jabberwocky - that is, speaking nonsense. Just like a Bushite bashing Hugo Chavez--or like a Bushite "swift-boater" attacking John Kerry--you dwell on one little fact--one tiny piece of a larger situation--a fact that you claim is wrong (with no links), and you extrapolate that tiny thing into a great big conspiracy about Bradblog "terrorizing" people into giving him money. What an insult to his donors! (Oh, they're just "easily fooled rubes," according to you). You're quick with the insults and the wild exaggerations, and unconvincing. And the sad part is that, even if you're right about your one little fact, I'd have to get it from somewhere else - a more reliable source - to believe it...AND it would not diminish Brad Friedman in my eyes, that he made some little mistake of fact or emphasis. What he's doing--that kind of public education and activism--is very difficult. Mistakes of fact or emphasis are a hazard of citizen activism, which often has to take place in crisis mode--and mean absolutely nothing as to the activists' sincerity or the rightness of their cause. Further, our war profiteering corporate news monopolies have utterly failed us in their blackholing of the extreme peril of our nationwide voting system. And Brad Friedman is a crucially important counter to their indifference, corruption and collusion.

Your accusations against him are nonsense, Stewie. Jabberwocky. Bushitism. And the "real issue" is why you are attacking him, and not Diebold and the people who brought us "trade secret" vote counting.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. "Bushites" and "jabberwocky." Wow, it's like trying to talk to a LaRouchie.
No, it's not "delusional to be scared shitless of rightwing Bushite corporations 'counting' all our votes with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, and virtually no audit/recount controls."

What's "delusional" is taking a recount where 40 percent of all the ballots were counted by hand, the "victim" lost only seven votes out of over 40,000 counted, and claiming that's proof of "massive election fraud."

I'm not saying Diebold machines are trustworthy, I'm just saying the issue has been hijacked by both sleazy scam artists and people of questionable mental stability.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. talking to You is Like Talking to Rush Limbaugh
nice try, no sale
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. So criticizing people for shady fundraising makes you a conservative?
What's your point?

Mine is simple. Brad Friedman took an election where 40 percent of the ballots were counted, saw that only seven votes out of nearly 40,000 were miscounted, and began screaming "massive election fraud" and wants people to give him money to stop it.

It discredits the issue, makes the Democratic base look like lunatics and steals money from vulnerable people.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. NO SALE (nt)
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Hate to break it to you, but the New Hampshire primary wasn't "rigged."
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 07:09 PM by Stewie
Some people on the Internet just figured they could score a few bucks off some easily suggestible people by spreading the story, never expected an actual recount and now have to back track.

But it's much easier to just get all your information from some guy's website, and then plug your fingers in your ears and scream conspiracy theories when real-world evidence comes in. Good luck with that.

I know people invent conspiracy theories to help them deal with life experiences they don't want to face. Why not just face the fact New Hampshire voters don't like being told whom to vote for by the national media, which is why independents turned out in droves to vote for the candidate the media told them was finished? They did the same thing for underdog Kefauver in 1952, underdog Carter in 1976, nearly elected underdog Buchanan in 1992 and 1996, and underdog McCain in 2000. It's not "election fraud," they just like being contrarian.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. No Sale... Thanks for Kicking This Though
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 07:10 PM by fascisthunter
the thread gets more attention :nopity: :think:


PS - this thread is about irregularities and the lack of transparency in our democratic process of electing candidates. Nobody said it was stolen but the facts don't look good do they? That's why you are here hyperventilating and spinning... Good!
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I'll kick it again.
Here's your "massive election fraud," BradBlog donors.

40 percent of the New Hampshire paper ballots recounted. The initial count robbed Obama of...seven votes. Out of about 40,000 cast.

Seven miscounted votes. That's 0.02%.

Kicked.

But don't despair. I'm sure there's a conspiracy theory all cooked up to explain that. Fake ballots I bet! Because no expense must be spared to rig a primary that always goes against the media favorite and hasn't picked a non-incumbent presidential winner since 1976!
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Just a guess
but they seem to be heading this direction: Chain of custody wasn't secure, so sinister NH officials could have discarded/tossed all those extra Obama votes so that the recount exactly matches the rigged election. It doesn't make sense, but the conspiracy has to grow in order to explain the lack of a conspiracy.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. excuse me
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 07:19 PM by druidity33
but i don't believe Brad EVER screamed "massive election fraud". If you read the article he mentions "miscounts". (which by the way you can put in quotes since it's a "quote"... otherwise don't use those double dingles)

you sir, i accuse of being a rube!

and a salacious panderer of pirfiddery!

:)



on edit: oops, misspelled pirfiddery...

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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Spinners are Fun
it's like watching a toilet bowl flush a roach.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Brad Friedman is working w/Bev Harris
and quoting her and her "organization", bbv.

I call that scamming. What do you call it?
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lakeguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. did you even bother to read the letter kucinich wrote?
just because the total vote count was right doesn't mean the discrepancies in each ward were any less of a problem. you don't think a 4-10% difference is a problem?

i guess if a -10% in one area and a +10% in another area works out to be 0 change it's not a problem then.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Oh... It'll Matter in the GE
but then it'll be too late
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. WTF?
Why are you responding to me?
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. So each and every ward got together to coordinate their discrepancies?
Again, conspiracy nuts can respond to any fact with another conspiracy. It's like the people who swear Obama is a Muslim. When you point out he's been a Christian for most of his life and goes to a Christian church, they scratch their head for a second and then come up with "well, then he's clearly a Muslim spy disguised as a Christian"

Naturally, since wards are different they're going to vote differently. Do you expect farmers in Franconia to vote the same as computer programmers in Nashua?

The lunacy of this is if there were no discrepancies between the wards that would be evidence of fraud.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. I agree
Nothing wrong w/advocating for election reform, but when someone is twisting the facts, & making false allegations, it's just become a way to get support/donations from true believers. It could also just be that the blogger is a True Believer himself, & finds it hard to admit that they were mistaken about NH.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. Can't Wait to See How Screwed Up the General Election will Be
:popcorn:
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
23. this is probably a more valuable contribution than being a candidate at this point.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
24. VIDEO: all you need to know about voting machines in a two minutes with Howard Dean:
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