Pope Baptizes Prominent Italian Muslim

[Hugabear]

Source: AP

VATICAN CITY (AP) - Italy's most prominent Muslim, an iconoclastic writer who condemned Islamic extremism and defended Israel, converted to Catholicism Saturday in a baptism by the pope at a Vatican Easter service.

An Egyptian-born, non-practicing Muslim who is married to a Catholic, Magdi Allam infuriated some Muslims with his books and columns in the newspaper Corriere della Sera newspaper, where he is a deputy editor. He titled one book "Long Live Israel."

As a choir sang, Pope Benedict XVI poured holy water over Allam's head and said a brief prayer in Latin.

"We no longer stand alongside or in opposition to one another," Benedict said in a homily reflecting on the meaning of baptism. "Thus faith is a force for peace and reconciliation in the world: distances between people are overcome, in the Lord we have become close."

Read more: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VIR44G0&show_article=1

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Doesn't this just perpetuate the hateful notion that one religion is 'better' than the other?

[marshall]

1. Give him a shirt with a target etched on its back

Dude's gonna need it, especially if he tries to go home. Maybe he can hole up with Salman Rushdie and they can commiserate over their fatwas.

[ohio2007]

2. A reply will be forthcoming next friday...after prayers....

The radical elements claim this pope gave his blessing to the mohammad cartoon "attack" on Islam.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/03/22/pope.muslim.convert.ap/index.html



The news of what Magdi Allam, the journalist did will spread. I fear heads will roll. Anybody think otherwise ?

[QUALAR]

3. SUCCESS

Wow! That waterboarding thingy does work better than stacking rock slabs on the chest. At least we don't lose the convert this way.

[rayofreason]

4. Pope baptizes prominent Italian Muslim

Source: Associated Press

VATICAN CITY - Italy's most prominent Muslim, an iconoclastic writer who condemned Islamic extremism and defended Israel, converted to Catholicism Saturday in a baptism by the pope at a Vatican Easter service.

An Egyptian-born, non-practicing Muslim who is married to a Catholic, Magdi Allam infuriated some Muslims with his books and columns in the newspaper Corriere della Sera newspaper, where he is a deputy editor. He titled one book "Long Live Israel."

As a choir sang, Pope Benedict XVI poured holy water over Allam's head and said a brief prayer in Latin.

"We no longer stand alongside or in opposition to one another," Benedict said in a homily reflecting on the meaning of baptism. "Thus faith is a force for peace and reconciliation in the world: distances between people are overcome, in the Lord we have become close."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080322/ap_on_re_eu/pope_muslim_convert

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A core element of modern human liberty is the freedom to profess whatever faith (or none) you choose.

[selador]

5. be interesting to see

what the reaction to this is.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. I can predict

the imams who were infuriated by Allam's writings will say he's finally showing his "true colors". And other moderate Muslims who may agree with many of Allam's assertions may feel sad, because he has left the fight that is going on within Islam between the moderates and fundamentalists. And the MSM will probably ignore all of this, unless an imam issues a fatwa that helps them portray Islam as a terrorist organization.

[selador]

9. i was wondering

about how many death threats and calls for his execution there will be

apostasy and all.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. Not all Muslims will agree

but I fear that only the extremist views will be broadcast by the MSM. Building bridges between faiths and teaching tolerance isn't "news", you know.

[selador]

14. well

non-conflict by definition is not news

what will be interesting to see is how many muslim leaders will preach tolerance towards those who choose to renounce islam in favor of another religion vs. those who will call for this person's death.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. but usually ecumenical councils and visiting dignitaries

are covered by the news, and I have found that since 911 this has often not been the case. The large council held in Dallas in 2005, for example, was largely ignored, except by fundamentalist Christians, who sent death threats to the participants. You'd think that would be news, but oddly enough, it wasn't covered. This happened in July of '05, btw, and included my spiritual guide's teacher and a personal friend of mine. She told me that the police were worried enough about the threats to give all participants protection to and from the conference center. We were in the area during that time, visiting relatives, and it(the threats) was not covered on TV or in the press.

Rest assured anyone in any Islamic sect who shrugs and says "go in peace" will not be covered, but every Muslim who calls for death will be covered ad nauseum.

[brentspeak]

20. Well, normally, when someone's life is threatened by a bunch of maniacs

the news is going to cover it -- as they should.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. Normally, maybe

But I know this happened, because I was there, I spoke to conference participants, and I watched the news and read the papers. Of course, kindly remember who controls the media in DFW--you may find your answer to why this wasn't covered.

[selador]

21. ill make a prediction

and disagree

"Rest assured anyone in any Islamic sect who shrugs and says "go in peace" will not be covered,"

any average d00d will not be covered either way. because nobody cares what joe moslem says any more than they care what joe average said yesterday over breakfast.

in terms of islamic LEADERS (iow, the people that designate themselves as such and have some sort of credibility as such - iow run large mosques, front large organizations etc.) i will bet that those who make public statements SUPPORTING the right of this person to convert WILL get coverage.

but clearly, making a death threat towards somebody or advocating somebody's death *is* more newsworthy than saying joe blow is a swell guy, and you support him

people who want to make a name for themselves realize this.

will CAIR etc. come out with position statements supporting this expression of freedom? i would hope so, but i have no idea

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. CAIR would be an organization with some credence

but as for these imams making these statements--please realize that Islam isn't set up the way the Catholic Church is. There is no one "leader" and the pronouncements of these people are seen as coming from people--not some prophetic declaration that one must follow or be sinning. I'm most familiar with Sufi orders, and the leaders there are like good friends or the wise old grandfather or grandmother whose advice you cherish--but you don't have to agree with it, much less follow it. I know of people who have gotten mad at our Pir (which translates as "elder"), left the order, and then came back-and were welcomed with open arms. The idea is one's spiritual growth is dependent upon one's own actions, not the actions of any leader, be they priest, Pope, imam, or Pir.

[selador]

24. please realize

im aware of how islam is "set up"

regardless of whether people "have" to follow these leaders, metric assloads of people DO follow them.

that's why, for example, salman rushdie couldn't show his frigging face in publ;ic

[hifalutin]

27. Hamas already has called for his death

Allam, 55, told the newspaper Il Giornale in December that his criticism of Palestinian suicide bombings had provoked threats on his life in 2003, prompting the Italian government to provide him with a security detail.

"Having been condemned to death, I have reflected a long time on the value of life. And I discovered that behind the origin of the ideology of hatred, violence and death is the discrimination against Israel. Everyone has the right to exist except for the Jewish state and its inhabitants," he said. "Today, Israel is the paradigm of the right to life."

He'll need even more security now.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. They never were in opposition to one another

I find it interesting that so many seem to believe you must join "their team" in order to have peaceful relationships. I think that people can walk their own path with appreciation and respect of others, for we are all heading for the same goal. That being said, I am glad for Allam, who is obviously following his spiritual path, and would encourage everyone to do the same.

"Allow us to recognize Thee in all Thy Holy Names and Forms-
As Rama, as Krishna, as Shiva, as Buddha.
Let us know Thee as Abraham, as Solomon, as Zarathustra,
As Moses, as Jesus, as Mohammed,
And in many other names and forms, known and unknown to the world...."

from the prayer "Salat" of Haz. Sufi Inayat Khan

[Trajan]

7. Hmmmm

A core element of church history is the repression of those who profess whatever faith the church did NOT choose ....

The catholic church has spent most of the last 2000 years of it's existence suppressing liberty .... Much more than this very short period of 'liberalization' since the revolutionary era ...

That said: It is also quite 'in your face' to have the Papal majesty associated with such a controversial act as a Muslim converting to Christianity ... Given the weight of Islamic precepts against conversion and the utter contempt held by Islamic theology against 'apostates', it seams Papa is going out of his way to slap down those sentiments, personally .... Hardly a gesture of peaceful brotherhood ....

I speak as an ex-catholic who is also atheist ....

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Thanks for your insight

Like you, I don't see this really helping matters.

[selador]

13. it's an essential expression

of liberty.

the right to choose your own religion/belief system.

also, the right to CHANGE YER MIND :)

i have no problem with any religion fwiw, that proselytizes or attempts to convert, as long as it is done without force - merely by the power of argument.

that's what's freedom is about - the freedom to choose, the freedom to make your case to others, etc.

[Texifornia]

15. Not the point

Any Priest could have conducted the baptism.

By doing it himself, the Pope is making a very public and very political statement.

[selador]

16. sure

the pope is the head of a country after all (the vatican) and is expected to make public and political statements.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. In my personal experience,

one's spiritual journey is not one that stays on the same path. I've changed my religious affiliation a couple of times, and find now that I am developing an appreciation for all of them.

[The Stranger]

32. The problem is that the history eviscerates the notion that "conversion" is by "choice."

Torture was created by Christians converting Muslims during the Spanish Inquisition. That was pure power of argument there. And millions of Native Americans -- at least the ones that survived -- I'm sure were "converted" to Christianity by choice, right? Right.

Especially given the ostentatious nature of this "conversion," it was meant as a statement -- and a statement intended to be in the face of Muslims and those who know the history of the Catholic Church, ethnic cleansing, torture, "conversion."

[Texifornia]

12. I thought exactly the same thing

No way does the Pope himself conduct this baptism unless he wished to make a strong political statement.

Benedict is asking for this to be interpreted as "coexistance via. conversion".

[Karenina]

17. Easter's sacrificial lamb?

WHAT A DIMWIT. :eyes: The payoff is when some outraged, I mean OUTRAGED maniac puts a bullet in his head. Now THAT will surely feed the frenzy!

[fujiyama]

25. Does he have a safe house?

A bodyguard? He better watch his back. He can go join Rushdie, the cartoonist, and the dutch politician all in hiding...

[fujiyama]

26. This was certainly a political statement

but the Pope is both a political and religious leader. He is the leader of both the Catholic Church and the Vatican City State. It is certainly a prominent act of "rubbing it in" if you will.

My hope is that this is largely ignored but fanatical Muslims will get riled up by this by fiery Imams. Until it is realized by many Muslims that faith should be a choice, regardless of how one was born - that free thought and expression of any religious and/or spiritual faith is a HUMAN RIGHT, this person will be threatened.

[hifalutin]

31. Allam is certainly not alone

snip........

Magdi Allam is Italy's answer to Ayaan Hirsan Ali, the Somalian-born Dutch writer and politician forced to live under police protection for her repeatedly stark public criticism of Islam. Like Hirsan Ali, the Egyptian-born Allam was raised in a Muslim family, before emigrating as a teenager to Europe, where he eventually became famous for railing against what he sees as fundamental flaws in his native religion. The Rome-based journalist has faced repeated death threats from Islamic radicals, and travels to speaking engagements in Italy and abroad with an armed security detail. Needless to say, neither Allam nor Hirsan Ali show signs of toning down their criticism.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/amuslimcriticturnscatholic;_ylt=Ap.DOrBECebbZJLBqu3f16hn.3QA

[truthisfreedom]

28. Is this what Jesus would do, mr. pope?

In reality?

[Wabbajack_]

29. As an athiest I don't give a crap

good for him/whatever.

[Ordr]

30. Well he's done for.

Bleh. :(