Christian leaders meet privately with Obama

[adnelson60087]

Source: Associated Press


By CHARLES BABINGTON – 1 hour ago
CHICAGO (AP) — Barack Obama discussed Darfur, the Iraq war, gay rights, abortion and other issues Tuesday with Christian leaders, including conservatives who have been criticized for praising the Democratic presidential candidate.
Bishop T.D. Jakes, a prominent black clergyman who heads a Dallas megachurch, said Obama took questions, listened to participants and discussed his "personal journey of faith."
The discussion "went absolutely everywhere," Jakes told The Associated Press, and "just about every Christian stripe was represented in that room."
Jakes, who does not endorse candidates and said he also hopes to meet with Republican presidential candidate John McCain, said some participants clearly have political differences with Obama. The senator's support for abortion rights and gay rights, among other issues, draws opposition from religious conservatives. Some conservatives have criticized Jakes for praising Obama.

Read more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hDs1G4KcPg0QdpjieZ3p9oj2j_CgD917JO2G0

---

I wonder how long it will be before Obama seeks out leaders and representatives of the Secular community? I really don't feel at all comfortable with our nominee getting so chummy with televangelists like Jakes, etc. We're about the be rid of Bush and his fundamentalists. Does our leadership need to court them, too? So many secularists feel taken for granted in our party, I just don't think this helps that point.

[babylonsister]

1. Brilliant move by Obama. We have a big tent! nt

[adnelson60087]

2. What good can come from courting right wing fundamentalists

and televangelists? Big Tent or no, it may be good for politics, but at what cost?

[babylonsister]

4. Maybe he will talk sense into them. Look at the options. They

cannot stand McSame, and the future of the Supreme Court is at risk. I want Obama to talk to anyone and everyone. He's a far better candidate to be president than McSame ever thought about being.
Diplomacy doesn't hurt, wherever it's used.

[JerseygirlCT]

60. From your own OP:

"just about every Christian stripe was represented in that room."

that means he didn't meet only with right wingers.

And frankly, even if he did, why assume HE was the one there to have his mind changed? Why assume our candidate is about to change his ideals, his views (views, btw, informed by HIS form of Christianity) because he talks to SOME people with whom he disagrees? I think there's every bit as much possibility that HE changes some minds. And that's a good thing.

[Zhade]

67. Well, Obama does believe in talking with our enemies.

(And yes, America's home-grown mullahs ARE our enemies.)

[nodehopper]

79. in the last few years they've been getting on board with global warming

from the religious POV, of course, but still. Hopefully he can use them, rather than the other way around.

[Hatalles]

3. I'm really disappointed that he met w/ Franklin Graham.

That guy is just as bad as Hagee and Parsley.

[Sodbuster]

5. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer........

I agree with the poster one up about diplomacy working at many levels.
Shows he isn't afraid to talk to people he disagrees with.
That would be a welcome change after Chucklenuts.

[harmonicon]

6. a meeting doesn't mean that he agrees with them

These are people that have a large impact on the lives of many Americans, and trying to come to a point where these folks and our next president at least understand one another seems like a good thing to me. I'm not religious, but Obama is, and he may feel that he can share things with people of different political stripes in the realm of discussing the role that faith plays in their lives and their communities. When he is elected, he will have to be president of the country for all citizens, not just those who vote for him and agree with him.

[mac2]

40. How would you know. The meetings are in secret.

He met in secret with the Bilderberg Group too. Doesn't all this secret meeting stuff make you a bit concerned that it might be against democracy or what you would want?

[harmonicon]

62. In secret or in private? There's a big difference

I see no reason why he can't have private meetings with whoever he'd like - it's his constitutional right. If he pulled some Cheney stuff and wouldn't say who was meeting with him to draft policy, that would be one thing, but having private meetings with people just seems normal to me.

[tuvor]

9. Ahmadinejad's bad, too, but Obama would be willing to meet with him.

I'm tired of presidents who meet only with their pals.

[mac2]

44. Apparently they have more power than you do.

[jaysunb]

7. " Inclusion " includes, EVERYONE

n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

61. Well put.

And talking does not mean caving in to someone else's views and handing over your own.

[sutz12]

8. His coziness with the fundies has always been my biggest concern about him..

It won't stop me from supporting and voting for him, but the concern is real. There is no doubt in my mind that a McCain presidency would be a disaster, or a continuation of the current disaster, as it were.

I, too, am tired of the 'Christianization' of my country. I want good secular, rational values to govern our decisions. I guess it's good that he is reaching out and talking to them, but I hope he makes clear that gay marriage amendments and "creation science" are off the table for the next 4 to 8 years. Sorry, but all that touchy-feelie God stuff needs to take a back seat to getting people back to work and feeding families, and finding a way to get people health care. I'm all for prayer and faith and all, but we need some roll up our sleeves work in the physical realm right now. A lot of it.

The fundies all act like we're going to make gay marriage and abortion mandatory. I think most of them need to take a chill pill. :shrug:

[babylonsister]

10. He hasn't been cozy with the fundies. Where are you getting that?

I'm serious. where did you hear that?

[sutz12]

12. OK. I'll admit I exaggerated that.. My bad.

I am just tired of the whole "I have to be a devout Christian to get elected" aspect of American politics lately.

His pastor was a bit of a piece of work. There are some whackos on both sides of the Christian domain.

I stand by my desire that some issues dear to many religious types hearts should be off the table. There much more important issues than restricting abortion rights and banning gay marriage to worry about during this upcoming administration.

Certainly, a "no uber-religious judges" rule needs to be adhered to.

[babylonsister]

13. Your 'biggest concern' is now exaggerated?

You just trashed a very good man. Think before you type next time, please. I mean it. You are welcome to any and all opinions you have or want, but keep it real, and do explain why you think what you do. People like me might be able to explain any concerns you have.

Thanks.

[saracat]

20. What do you think his outreach group the "Joshua Generation" is?

It is designed for outreach to "young evangelicals" Bleh!

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/389328.aspx


Obama Campaign may be Sued for Joshua Generation Project
June 9, 2008

Oh my.

The Brody File first reported that the Obama campaign will be launching "The Joshua Generation Project" aimed at young Evangelicals and faith voters. Well, it turns out there may be a legal issue with the name. Read below from Roll Call.

Sen. Barack Obama is about to launch his latest outreach to religious voters, but the name of the group could land him in legal trouble.

First reported on Friday by Christian Broadcasting Network's David Brody, Obama's "Joshua Generation" is designed to help the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee appeal to young evangelicals.

[adnelson60087]

54. Disturbing stuff...we don't need to use Right Wing thinking to win

our elections. Good to see you SaraCat.

[LiberalFighter]

29. If people would put all the pieces of the puzzle together when it comes to christianity or muslims

The orgin of christianity and muslim is the jewish religion

And the origin of the jewish religion is the egyptian religions

And the origin of the eqyptian religions is the caveman using it to control their tribe.

[LanternWaste]

32. concept he called "shared myth"

C.S. Lewis wrote of a concept he called "shared myth" in his book, Mere Christianity which expounds on what I believe you meant. It was certainly an eye-opener for me.

You may want to give it a read some time...

[jasmine621]

65. It goes right along with his coziness to AIPAC. What's new? nt

[nodehopper]

80. I so agree with everything you just said

[DUlover2909]

11. Who are the secular leaders?

[adnelson60087]

14. That's a good point, as many secular people don't tend to have

leaders in the traditional sense, but there are still those who represent secular groups such as Americans United for Separation of Church and State, American Atheists, Center For Inquiry, etc. Lots of groups to choose from. There is even a Think Tank in Washington now just for this purpose of meeting with lawmakers and politicians. Will they get a sit-down with Obama or does the "big tent" only apply to Believers?

[DUlover2909]

17. Go Cowboys, hehe

[mac2]

48. The big secret tent only applies to those religious leaders he

chooses.

[Zhade]

68. Don't forget the Freedom From Religion Foundation!

A very good group that does much-needed work!

[Voltaire99]

15. Not quite the same lovin' that AIPAC got.

Was he spent after that earlier date?

[mac2]

45. Obama claimed to be one of them.

[frog92969]

16. Gotta sell it to the cults

if you want to get anywhere in this ass backwards country.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Everyone gets a seat at the Obama/American people table.....

it's just that none get to buy all of the seats.

That's what uniting folks means.....listening to what they have to say, then telling them what you think. Doesn't mean that he agrees with them. Hell, it says that they talked about Gay Rights, Abortion, Darfur and family values. That stuff gets talked about all of the time...but normally folks are preaching to the choir (church reference thrown in for wit)--this is wiser if we are to come together as a nation. What I do know is that he doesn't owe the religious community a damn thing (especially after Rev. Wright et al). Whatever he chooses to do, it's because he chose it. That's the kind of voice we need bringing our progressive case to the religious communities.

[mac2]

46. Then why is it secret?

[saracat]

19. Ick and his "Joshua Generation" for young fundies makes me ill!

Why do we have to mix religion (and fundie stuff at that) with politics?

[lanlady]

21. cozy with the fundies, cozy with AIPAC

Same shit, different election.

[w4rma]

22. Very good. (nt)

[ashandaurynsgramma]

23. they should have no influence whatsoever

it's called separation of church and state

[Zhade]

69. I agree, but is simply talking with them giving them influence?

NT!

[JerseygirlCT]

72. Or influencing them? nt

[Rudyabdul]

24. You all should chill.

Obama is introducing himself to the religious community. He is letting them get to know him and where he stand on the issues that concern religious leaders.

I've heard TD Jakes speak before and although he supported Bush, he is one of the most liberal-minded ministers that I know. And lately, he's been receiving a lot of flack from his fellow clergymen about things other than his praise of Obama.

[Bill McBlueState]

36. the religious community?

You mean the Christian community. One is a subset of the other.

[Snotcicles]

25. After they did their Q&A Obama should have

turned it around on them. "Now I have a few things to ask all of you" What are you as a religious community doing to end poverty? end racism? What are you as a religious community doing to promote tolerance, love and help thy neighbor? What are you saying to your congregations about greed? about the destruction of the planet?

[slinkerwink]

26. It's to help combat the Muslim smear e-mails going around

[happygoluckytoyou]

27. no abortions please... we only like to kill things that walk

[sampsonblk]

28. Obama is consistent. This is a very good sign of how he will govern

He is willing to meet with people whether he agrees with them or not. We sorely need that after two terms of GW Bush.

[mac2]

47. When will he meet with the people as their Senator

who has no business meeting with select religious leaders in secret?

When will he honor the people's Constitution? We pay him not them.

[sampsonblk]

64. I am sure he's met with plenty of 'the people'

What is the constitutional problem with him meeting with religious leaders?

[JerseygirlCT]

74. Completely agree with you. nt

[The Stranger]

30. Christian Fundamentalism is White Supremacy repackaged and warmed over.

[noonwitch]

35. No it's not-some racists twist fundamentalism to meet their views

If someone believe that the Bible is literally true, in every verse, then he or she ends up being more like Ned Flanders than the Aryan Nation.


It's like the way slave owners used to twist the story of Noah getting drunk and passing out naked into a justification of slavery. Noah gets pissed because his son Ham covers up his nudity, so he curses Ham's son (Canaan) to a life of slavery. Or twist Paul's statements about slaves obeying their masters into a justification of the institution of slavery, which is not the context of Paul's comments-the context was that the world is going to end any day now, and there are more important things to deal with than starting a social revolution.

[LibertyLover]

38. Actually, Yahweh curses Ham

because he didn't cover the Noah up, but went and told his brothers, Shem and Japheth, that he had seen his father's nakedness. Shem and Japheth entered where their father was with their eyes averted and covered Noah up. When Noah awakened from his wine-induced nap, he cursed Ham and his posterity to be servants to the descendents of Shem and Japheth. Apparently a version of the Talmud (the Babylonian Talmud I think it is) postulates that Ham either castrated Noah or sodomized him and that is why Noah cursed him.

[The Stranger]

52. You're missing the forest for the trees.

Fundamentalists don't read the bible literally -- they pick and choose what parts they want to read literally. Their preaching is about a God of violence who wages war and smites (murders) innocent people, usually of another tribe.

And I'm not just talking about the Aryan Nation or Christian Identity. I'm talking about the John Hagee's and Rod Parsley's of the world, who call for the wholesale destruction of Other peoples.

[mac2]

41. It could be "black power" too. Many black clergy are very

involved in picking the candidates and wanting funding for themselves. They want to control the agenda too. Both races run to the power to get what they want. That is why ALL religion belongs outside government.

Did you fail to remember that Obama?

[adnelson60087]

53. That's a good point, as I recall many Black preachers back in 2004

sold out to BushCo for Faith Based Initiative pay-outs. Especially the big Megachurch pastors.

[LanternWaste]

56. I had no idea I was part of the White Supremacist movement.

I had no idea I was part of the White Supremacist movement. News to me. And to my fellow parishioners. And to my pastor.

Would you be so kind as to give me the titles/authors of any peer-reviewed publications that validate your statement?

[The Stranger]

63. Curious:

News to me. And to my fellow parishioners. And to my pastor.

Do you believe that certain people and/or tribes of people and their descendants are cursed based on something it says in the bible?

Do you believe there will be a war before the "End Times," similar to what pastor John Hagee proposes?

If you believe in a rapture and eschatology, who will be saved during the rapture, and who will not be saved?

Do you support the "War on Terror" and does your Church support it?

[LanternWaste]

76. Is my pedigree/resume pure enough to pass...?

"Do you believe that certain people and/or tribes of people and their descendants are cursed based on something it says in the bible?"
I believe we all are cursed.

"Do you believe there will be a war before the "End Times..."
Well, if there is an End Time, and since there are currently wars progressing as we speak, it seems as though there will be wars prior to the end end times. As for Hagee-- I simply don't know enough about his interpretations and perspectives to either agree or disagree with whatever premise he hold re: the end times.

...who will be saved during the rapture, and who will not be saved?
Those who want to be saved will be, those who don't, wont.

"Do you support the "War on Terror" and does your Church support it?"
I don't support occupation of Iraq, my church has no formal stance on it as an individual conflict (but my church does have a stance on war-- "It's Bad"), and my pastor as an individual believes the current American occupation to be immoral.

Is my pedigree/resume pure enough to pass your online-dating style of Q&A? May I now state again that it's a surprise to me, my pastor and my church that we're all racists?

[The Stranger]

77. No, I think you fail.

And I'm not exactly sure why you identify yourself as a Fundamentalist.

[LanternWaste]

78. Because I believe in Five Fundamental Truths

"And I'm not exactly sure why you identify yourself as a Fundamentalist."


<sigh>

Because I believe in Five Fundamental Truths-- the origin of the word 'Fundamentalist'

[FlaGranny]

31. The folks who are angry because of this meeting -

are you angry at Obama for wanting to talk with our "enemies"?

Good heavens, people, talking to someone who doesn't agree with you doesn't turn you into the person you disagree with. It gives you ideas for gaining their cooperation.

Edit: He is doing what he has been promising he would do.

[adnelson60087]

33. Yes, he is doing what he says he'd do, and his overtures to religious

zealots ought to concern everyone here. Do we NEED to cater to the whims of these people?

[mac2]

42. It's what he is about. Obama wants his religious group to have

power and wealth.

[JerseygirlCT]

59. That's nonsense. nt

[JerseygirlCT]

57. You're making some big assumptions

that religious = zealot, first of all. The article says that the people at the meeting spanned the spectrum of Christian thought.

And that meeting and listening to people is somehow a problem.

Guess what? Our candidate is himself a person of faith. As are most people in this country. And it's NOT a zero-sum game here - meeting with Christians doesn't mean that he won't meet with any number of other groups.

We actually have a candidate who thinks it's as important to listen as to talk. To me, that's a big breath of fresh air after the egomaniac we've been dealing with.

[JerseygirlCT]

55. Thank you!

That's exactly what I wanted to say.

Folks, there is NOTHING wrong with our candidate talking to any group of people. And face facts: most of this country considers itself religious.

He didn't meet to throw over his ideals or ours. He wasn't there to make promises he can't keep. He was there to listen and to communicate. Always a good thing.

The objections I'm reading here sound like the McCain camp complaining because Obama would meet with Iran's leaders...

[FlaGranny]

70. You're welcome!

Talking to a religious leader does not mean you are "converted" to that person's religion. Neither does talking to a terrorist turn you into a terrorist. It seems a lot of people want Obama to be just like Bush and not talk to anyone he disagrees with.

[indypaul]

34. One can only hope that the was able to tell them

"Yes, all prayers are answered, but sometimes the
answer is NO." "We must never fear to negotiate,
but we should never negotiate out of fear."

[Bill McBlueState]

37. will there also be a private meeting with Muslim leaders?

Obama should avoid giving the impression that some religions are "more equal" than others.

[mac2]

43. The whole Congress and the President need to do just that.

Thank you for saying it. It's not just Muslims but secular groups who have concerns. Best to leave them all out. They can vote and contribute as citizens only.

[mac2]

39. As a Senator he violates the Constitution.

I don't care if all the religious leaders were there. It is wrong to give them this type of power. Does he meet with me and my friends who have concerns? Secular groups? No.

Secret meetings don't belong is a democracy. They are concerned over their funding and want a promise for their support, coffers, etc. If it was concern over "world events" then they would meet in the open.

He did not belong at the religious leader meeting or the Bilderberg Group. He did both of them recently. They are secret meetings not allowed in a democracy. They may even violate the Logan Act since many world religious representatives are not elected to represent our best interests.

Follow the money in religion today. Obama you are violating your oath of office.

[and-justice-for-all]

49. I would feel better if this shit was not 'private'! nt

[Mountainman]

50. He's aways talking to the secular community. Every time he talks.

What are you wanting, a big meeting with all the secular leaders in the country? Just who would that be? What room is big enough to hold them?

[adnelson60087]

58. Read my earlier post...near the top of the thread

about who he should address.

[frebrd]

51. Sorry, but the first thing that came...

to my mind was the time when Oil Industry leaders "met privately" with Cheney. We all know where that got us!

:(

[Zhade]

66. As an atheist (and thus one without any religion), I am not too bothered by this.

Religious folks do share our country.

If there's the barest whiff that religion is influencing his policies, though, I'll be all over him like a lion on a wildebeest!

[JerseygirlCT]

71. Well, it's certainly going to influence his thinking

since he's a religious person.

But I doubt we've got to be concerned about him attacking the Constitution in order to throw bones to the religious right activists if that's what you mean.

I think many Democrats share the same ideals, whether they come to them via a faith or not: that we have an obligation to each other as a society, that government has a purpose, that peace is preferable to war. You can arrive at those conclusions lots of ways. What matters is what you're going to do about them!

[YankeyMCC]

73. The fact is these people represent

a significant group of Americans and the xian religion in general is important to most people in America so I would expect him to talk to xian leaders.

I would like to see equal access by secular leaders and scientific leaders.

[Bill McBlueState]

75. scientific leaders

That would be a good meeting! Actually, he could do a series of meetings with leaders in life sciences, nanotechnology, astronomy.

Regarding my own field, American astronomers make a solid effort to define our priorities as a national community of scientists. We have a decadal survey to hash out which scientific questions are most important and figure out how to best lobby for and use federal money to answer those questions. If Obama met even for half an hour with members of that committee, it would be a real milestone.

[DuaneBidoux]

81. 90% of abortions occur because woman doesn't have health insurance.

If they are truly worried about the unborn, vote Dem and within two or three years abortions will plunge. Most women do indeed want to have their babies (and I am not arguing they should not have the right to choose) but simply are not able to afford them.