Michael Moore prepares provocative 9-11 project (AP)

[paulthompson]

Looks like Moore's next film will come out well before the election:


Now he's working on another film, Fahrenheit 9-11, due for release late this summer. As the title implies, the subject is terrorism. It's also a reference to Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury's classic science fiction novel about censorship.

The film will feature Moore on a quest for answers to troubling questions -- a recurring role he first assumed in Roger & Me, the hilarious and heartbreaking 1989 tale of woe in his hometown of Flint, Mich., after General Motors closed 11 auto manufacturing plants and laid off 33,000 workers.

"You know the question a lot of people were asking after Sept. 11 -- 'Why do they hate us?' The question I want to ask is, 'Why DON'T they hate us?' -- and then take my camera around the world a bit and show what's done in our name," Moore says.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1075308429981_9/?hub=Entertainment

[muchacho]

1. cool

he's said as much all along.

[onehandle]

2. Truth.

"He accuses the Bush administration of exaggerating the danger to frighten voters into giving the president another term: "It is one of the most successful lies ever perpetrated upon a people."

[Enraged_Ape]

3. With a late summer open, it should head off the "October Surprise"

Not even Osama's frostbitten corpse is going to win one for the Goober this time.

[Barrett808]

48. But what about the "terrorist" attack?

If OBL doesn't sell, there's always 9/11 part deux.

[Gman]

4. The last I heard

this was going to be released after the election in November.

This is excellent news.

[noonwitch]

5. The Bush people will do all they can to keep this movie from distribution

They will threaten theatre boycotts, studio boycotts, etc. I wonder if they will picket in front of it like they did "The Last Temptation of Christ"?
Still, if I were Michael Moore, I wouldn't fly on any planes of any size for a while.

[0007]

6. J.H. Hatfield didn't fly - but was laid to rest

Go Michael Moore go!!

[joeunderdog]

8. protests are the best advertisement for movies

bring em on!!

[GinaMaria]

9. I hope they rally against this film

It will increase box office sales. I'm glad it's coming out this summer. I had heard his plans were to release the film before the election. Hope it helps.

[jburton]

10. I hope it's deemed "too controversial"

Best advertising is free...

Like O'Lielly suing Franken...best promotion for Al!

[tridim]

12. Please, please let the pukes protest!

It'll only boost exposure of the film and give us a chance to debate lots of idiots while waiting in line for tickets.

[KDLarsen]

7. Have he changed the topic of the movie?

Because when I heard of it first, he was going to have a look at the connection between the BFEE and the Bin Laden family. It should even include the Bin Laden's who were picked up around the US and flown to Saudi Arabia, while the rest of the US had to make their way around by car, train or bus due to the airspace being closed down.

[paulthompson]

15. topic

My understanding is that will still be in there. Just like Bowling for Columbine, there's a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

[Lisa]

16. I hope he uses your research ...

That would make it very hard for people to accuse him of not having well-documented sources!

[paulthompson]

20. Me too!

The Michael Moore website has linked to the timeline before, but I've never been able to contact him. Anyone know how to do that? I've heard somewhere before that he gets like 2000 messages a day.

[Tuttle]

27. I got through one time

on a lark, I sent a message to [e-mail]: I got a reply form Michael! Be creative - you never know...

Tut-tut

[frylock]

11. man.. i cannot wait for this to be released..

kick :kick:

[muchacho]

13. Michael Moore prepares to provoke audiences

Any regrets over proclaiming to millions around the world during last year’s Academy Awards ceremony that George W. Bush was a “fictitious president ... sending us to war for fictitious reasons”? No way.

But the crusading author and filmmaker does have a small confession: That rip-roaring acceptance speech after his “Bowling for Columbine” won the Oscar for best documentary almost went undelivered.

“Every bone in my body wanted to just thank them, blow them a kiss and walk off the stage,” Moore confides, stirring whipped cream into a steaming cup of hot chocolate during an interview at a local bookstore. “This was my night! How many times in your life do you win an Oscar?

“And yet that good Catholic schoolboy inside me is saying, ‘You know, this life is not about being honored with golden statues.’ ... In the end, I have to do what is right as a human being and a citizen. But I was fighting it. I’m a normal person, you know.”

And that’s one thing Moore wants to make clear — that he is normal. A regular guy.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4071857/

[grasswire]

14. and the Conason movie, too

My hope is a humiliating repudiation of Republicans at the polls.

Two movies will help make that happen.

[mac56]

17. A Conason movie?!

Cool! Tell me more.

[huckleberry]

19. Documentary based on Conason and Lyon's book

The Hunting of the President --

http://www.thehuntingofthepresident.com/

[Skittles]

18. being normal is part of Michael's enormous appeal

he may live in fancy digs in Manhattan but he has never forgotten his roots or his commitment to document injustices.

[Cuban Peril]

21. Personally,

I think he's an embarrassing shlub and I could care less if he suffers a massive coronary tonight as he stuffs his face with Krispy Kremes. We can't dismiss Ann Coulter for her shoddy research and respect M.M. for his. That's intellectual dishonesty and partisan politics at it's worst.

[Selwynn]

23. I agree - but you won't get much love here for that opinion. :)

[Bridget Burke]

24. Thanks for telling us what "we" should do!

He's an entertainer & a rabble-rouser. His movies & books reach folks who don't read Noam Chomsky; maybe they'll move on to more sophisticated materials.

So he's dangerous. And what the HELL is wrong with "partisan politics"?

[Columbia]

25. Another anti-MM here

He's a disgrace to honest liberalism with his hypocricy and loose play with facts. I hate that he's distorting my favorite author's most famous book for his agenda. x(

[Terwilliger]

34. for his agenda?

you dont think finding out what happened on 9-11 is important to you?

What part of the Democratic party are you from?

[Columbia]

49. I don't need MM to research 9/11

If the movie is anything like Bowling for Columbine then the movie will discredit itself (although millions may still love it). The only agenda Michael Moore has is to further Michael Moore. The Democratic Party does not need a Michael Moore in it's ranks. He helped in part to ruin the 2000 election and is now supporting a candidate who he condemned in his own movie. You may think I'm a disruptor and you can alert me all you want, but if I truly was, I would laud Michael Moore louder than everyone else here and watch him self-destruct the party. His next movie is going to do a lot of damage to the credibility of liberalism and the Democratic Party. You heard it here first.

[The_Casual_Observer]

51. Moore is the favorite target of the Freepers

He may stretch a little to make a point, but the points are legitimate and are always on the side of the average guy who has gotten screwed.

Freepers know this and don't like it. His work is very popular and effective, which is very worrisome to them.

[Columbia]

52. His stretching is what destroys his credibility

So lying is ok as long as long as it helps our side? That's pretty hypocritical. I'd rather go with integrity and intellectual honesty, thanks.

[The_Casual_Observer]

56. I don't think there are any lies

The fault that people seem to find is that he juxtaposes factual events for the best dramatic effect.
I don't think, that anyone could call that a lie.

[Columbia]

57. You said yourself he stretches

It would behoove you to do some independent research on the matter and you will find plenty of creative "juxtapositions" and a great number of misrepresentations and distortions. As mentioned before, try SpinSanity for several good articles.

He may ask some good questions, but he fails in providing an honest overview of those questions and nil in providing any good answers.

[The_Casual_Observer]

61. No lies, "spinsanity" is a well known freeper site.

There is absolutely nothing untruthful in Moore's work. Again, he stretches things out by Juxatposing the factual information in the most dramatic way to make a point. Cleaver and artistic, but not a lie. Basically that's the only "goods" that spinsanity has on him.

[Columbia]

62. Ha!

You obviously have not seen their site then. They are a huge basher of just about everybody including conservatives. I entreat you to actually take a look at the site before you dismiss it so readily.

And yes, there are blatant lies in the movie, but if you want to close your eyes to them, go ahead.

[The_Casual_Observer]

65. "The extent of Iraq's ties to Al Qaeda remains a matter of dispute"

This is a very typical remark lifted directly from your "spin" site. I don't know how anyone could be fooled into thinking that that piece of shit site is evenhanded. Looks to be penned by the RNC.

[Columbia]

67. Look a little closer

Here's one example:

"In the face of a large and vociferous antiwar movement that has staged massive protests and generated significant media attention in recent weeks, some conservative commentators have responded not by refuting the claims of protestors, but by impugning their motives. Most often, these attacks have consisted of ad hominem labeling of antiwar advocates as supporters of Saddam Hussein."

If you still don't like the site, fine. Just do a google search on Michael Moore and Bowling for Columbine and see what you find. Heck, I'll do it for you:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=michael+moore+bowling+for+columbine

[The_Casual_Observer]

69. You have to dig pretty deep to find ANYTHING

on that site that condradicts the RNC line. The provided one is very very weak.

All the internet Moore rants revolve around the way he edits the scenes, NOT the content of the scenes.

[Columbia]

71. Actually

There are allegations that several of the scenes were in fact staged. However, your mind seems to be made up so I won't waste any more time if you don't want to see the truth.

[Lostmessage]

26. How about O'Reilly?

He's an embarrassment to real journalists.

[Tuttle]

28. Cuban Peril:

Please explain Ann Coulter's shoddy research... I'm curious about that and then show me Moore's 'shoddy research', if you don't mind.

thanks,
Tut-tut

[reprobate]

30. Tuttle, don't argue with disruptors. Just alert on them.

[Selwynn]

31. Yeah, I disagree with you, so I'm a disruptor. MMMMkay...

Michael Moore distorts the truth virtually every chance he gets. In choosing to play fast and loose with virtually all the facts, he is no more credible or valuable as a voice then Ann Coulter, Bill O'reily or anyone else who spews bullshit on a daily basis. The only reason some lesser observers fawn over Moore so much is because his bullshit is of a liberal persuasion instead of conservative. But its still full of misleading information, outright distortions and mistakes. Not to mention that I don't believe MM is in it for anything other than himself.

There are far, far better and much more credible sources of progressive criticism out there. I don't need progressive ideas to be constantly embarrassed by an "ambassador" who can't ever keep his fucking facts straight.

There - alert me.

[Terwilliger]

35. ALERT

show me examples of his "fast and losse" with the facts...please....any

You people like to hit-and-run and say "Moore is a Rush Limbaugh of the left...he lies and distorts" yada yada

PLEASE.....Any concrete examples would be just ducky. Anything! Anything?

[bpilgrim]

42. anyone who comapres MM to AC ain't got a CLUE

and you MIGHT persuade some folks to your view if you actually backed up your outrageous claims "play fast and loose with virtually all the facts"

gotta a link?

you've been alerted

peace

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cuban Peril]

38. "Disruptors"

and "alert on them"? Are you kidding? Because I don't like Ann Coulter or Michael Moore? You should be ashamed of yourself. Press away Nazi.

[Rich Hunt]

32. same old stuff

They're just going to trot out the same old sites with their misrepresentation of Bowling for Columbine. Then the Moore defenders will come on and post their refutation of those charges.

It's been done a million times on this board.

It is far easier to claim he 'plays fast and loose with the facts' then to post the URL for the same old website which lists either trivial mistakes OR misrepresentations of the film (i.e., the bank that gives out guns).

Yawn.

[Cuban Peril]

37. I'm not sure

if you disagree with me, but there are plenty of non-partisan websites that do a better job of explaining it than me. Try Spinsanity. They do an excellent job of deconstructing A.C. & M.M. with actual research.

[Terwilliger]

33. Ummm...can you show me his "shoddy" research?

Please....just ONE example!

[lightbulb]

59. Moore ignored statistical fairness

when displaying gun death statistics for various countries around the world in the Columbine film. He displayed only the total number of annual shooting deaths, with no mention of total population numbers for the relevant nations. Only a per capita figure would carry any significance; without a point of reference his numbers were reduced to meaningless propaganda.

I do support Moore's efforts for the most part, and am not trying to claim that the US does not lead the world in domestic gun violence. But our social problems are not well served by this sort of journalistic recklessness.

[Columbia]

79. You are mostly right

But actually there are several countries that beat out the United States on gun violence rates: South Africa, Colombia, Estonia, Brazil, Mexico, and N. Ireland. The non-gun and gun violence rates are comparably as well for what that's worth.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html

[shamanstar]

39. shoddy research??

what makes his research shoddy?

[rman]

45. Coulter's research is pretty good: her footnotes expose her own lies.

-

[daleo]

22. I suppose there will be an attempt to suppress this

I am not saying it will succeed, but you know they will try. They will probably try something equivalent to what happened with "The Reagans" - move it from wider distribution to a more limited distribution i.e. from mainstream theaters to repertory/art house venues. That would have the effect of limiting it to bigger cities, many of which the Republicans have probably written off anyway.

On the plus side, Moore's movies have a track record of making money, so some large corporation may buck the suppression, if only for the money.

[Alpharetta]

29. I hope he gets it onto DVD before the election too

Bowling for Columbine took forever to get to DVD.

It would be neat if we could have some "Farenheit" parties in the October timeframe.

[redqueen]

36. This is fantastic!

I also heard it woulnd't be out until the day of or after the election or some such nonsense -- this is much much better. :D

[shamanstar]

40. disney studio

im not sure which one of disneys studios, but they are producing this movie. it doesnt say in the article anywhere. i will try to find a more definitive source on that.

[Courtney_P]

41. Let's just hope

that he is more honest and strightforward than he was in Bowling for Columbine. A good message was lost in his own self imposed lack of credibility.

[Bridget Burke]

46. So many people, so afraid of a chubby, funny guy....

Who still manages to put across a lot of truth.

Your complaint is very old. The same phrases keep coming across, again & again. What's your source?

[Courtney_P]

47. Bridget

As much as I dislike the NRA I cannot ignore the fact that Micheal Moore used clips of footage from meetings in many different places and times. He presented them as if they were all happening in Colorado during the aftermath of the incident. He led his audience to believe that the NRA president Charlton Hestin basically showed up, rifle in hand after the incident to yell the infamous "when you pry it from my cold dead hands" before the bodies were even cold. This simply isn't true. Do a google search on it. I did and cross referenced it with the movie. I was sadly surprised to see it. When you put out a political message, no matter how well intentioned, you cannot be deceitful. It discredits your entire message. Unfortunately a lot of great liberal thinkers seem to believe that the ends justify the means.

[Tempest]

53. Your knowledge is seriously distorted

The NRA's meeting was set up in advance.

Heston was specifically asked by the community NOT to appear and asked the NRA to move the meeting. He, and they, told them to take a flying leap and showed up anyway.

Heston then made his "cold, dead hands" statement in defiance of the community.

Yours is the message that has been discredited.

[Bridget Burke]

54. So many people, so afraid....

Some of his detractors claim they agree with his aims but quibble about his methods.

Tell me, do you agree with his aims?

[Columbia]

55. Nope

The meeting was set up in advance and was extremely toned down. Most of the events were canceled in fact. The only reason they had it was they were required to have it by law. I'm not a huge fan of the NRA, but there is no justification for the blatant misrepresentation in the movie. If you actually read the speech Heston gave at the meeting (which was in Denver and NOT Littleton) you'd see that it was very conciliatory in tone and completely twisted out of recognition in the movie. Oh, by the way, he did NOT say the "cold, dead hands" part during the speech either. That was edited in by Michael Moore from another speech at another time. Guess what, you've been had.

[Bridget Burke]

58. "Been had"? I never thought Michael Moore was the messiah

I'm just glad he irritates the people who need irritating.

[Columbia]

60. I'm just pointing how easily one can be manipulated

Through intellectual dishonesty. I thought that he said all those horrible things too before I read the real speech myself. It was a completely different tone and Michael Moore obviously twisted it to fit whatever he wanted to push.

[Bridget Burke]

70. I'm not that passionately involved in gun issues....

Even though I'm from Texas.

I take most things with a grain of salt.

[Columbia]

73. As well you should

"I take most things with a grain of salt."

Especially when it comes to Michael Moore.

[Augspies]

74. link to transcript please.

n/t

[Columbia]

78. Here you go.

This is the transciprt that Michael Moore audaciously posts on his own webpage that contradicts his own claims!

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/heston.php

Moore conveniently left out this part of the speech, the final two paragraphs:

So we have the same right as all other citizens to be here ... to help shoulder the grief... to share our sorrow ... and to offer our respectful, reasoned voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy

One more thing. Our words and our behavior will be scrutinized more than ever this morning. Those who are hostile toward us will lie in wait to seize on a soundbite out of context, ever searching for an embarrassing moment to ridicule us. So let us be mindful ... the eyes of the nation are upon us today.

Ironic isn't it?

And guess what? No cold dead hands segment in it at all. Call it creative splicing and editing or great movie making all you want, it's just blatant misrepresentation and distortion. That to me, is a lie.

[shamanstar]

66. i didnt get that impression

but i am also a very brilliant person.

[Columbia]

68. Congrats

You are more of a critical viewer than the extreme majority of the public who saw the movie then.

[hertopos]

76. About your example and 'stat' problem

I am originally from Japan.
Japanese population is about a half of U.S. So are we supposed to have about a half of gun related death of the ones in U.S. ? No, way, way, smaller.

I see Michael Moore as an film maker with a certain agenda. Editing is the everyday reality of the media. I did like the movie BIC because his message was very clear. Americans live on fears. I see his point everywhere. I would not put him in a same category with A.C. or likes.

He is a film maker whose point of view is so needed in this country. Unlike typical 'superior' intellectuals, he does not repel everyday people.

Can you at least see what good he does for us, people of America?

Hertopos

[Columbia]

77. Hey Hertopos

You are correct, in order to compare statistics between countries you must take the per capita rate. By the way, Michael Moore did not do this, he only listed total murders. But anyway, no, Japan definitely does not have the murder rate that the United States does. But Japan is also a mostly homogenuous society that does not have the same type of problems that the United States has. You cannot just give a statistic and leave it at that without looking at the underlying factors. For example, Japan has a much higher suicide rate than the United States has. Just like violence in various countries, there is not one easy explanation for it, but a careful and honest study must be done to attempt to find an answer.

The problem with Michael Moore is that he asks good questions, but he has no answers or that the ones that he does have are just plain wrong. The overall question in BFC is "why is America so violent?" to which he has many answers ranging from guns to K-Mart to Lockheed to foreign policy to Dick Clark to fear. You believe that his answer is the last one, that "Americans live on fear" and that is why we have so many murders. However, that is just plain wrong.

Do you know that 97% of all murders in the United States are gang-related? Michael Moore makes it out that we are so fearful that we shoot our neighbors and fellow citizens for no reason other than fear. However, as the Department of Justice statistics show, that is not true. Americans as a whole do not kill each en masse. American gang-members do however. Do you think they operate on fear? Perhaps fear of another gang taking their drug business but certainly not the same kind of fear that Michael Moore intimates that everyday Americans have living their normal lives. Did Michael Moore even mention gangs once in his whole movie? Not at all. How could he ignore the cause of the vast majority of murders in America? Well, because he is intellectually dishonest and also because it does not fit in with his agenda (and would shorten the movie by a whole lot). The only fear that exists in the movie is the fear that Michael Moore wants to instill in his audience and nothing more.

You close by asking what good Michael Moore does for America. I'll close by saying that Michael Moore does no good at all. In fact, he's a very dangerous and brilliant man who is able to exploit mass media and confuse and misdirect millions of Americans away from real problems and most importantly, real answers to those problems.

[bpilgrim]

43. i believe they bailed...

but don't go by my memory ;->

peace

[Terwilliger]

44. I thought Warner picked it up

or maybe Miramax

[symbolman]

63. Click on the

link below --

I did this one year to the day of 911 to honor those poor people killed..

It's called "Bush Knew - an American Requiem"

Anyone want to send it to Michael, it's cool by me..

but I beat him to it :)

[lightbulb]

64. Hope he doesn't miss the point, 9-11 was not just "them"

Why "they" hate us or don't hate us is a petty discussion when compared to the very real (and very likely) possibility that the 9-11 attacks were facilitated by certain persons right here at home in order to fulfill a political agenda.

Discussing the motivations of the Muslim extremest hijackers is about as useful as trying to figure out why Lee H. Oswald hated JFK so much.

[metisnation]

72. Great movie

Guys in fire engines that take all the books away reminds me of the super bowl not allowing the moveon ad.

[libview]

75. don't get too excited, the only people who

will see this movie will vote democrat anyway.
IMHO