President Bush defaces the American Flag

[JaneQPublic]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030725/168/4s8z4.html

President Bush (news - web sites) signs American flags for workers at Beaver Aerospace and Defense after speaking about jobs and economic growth in Livonia, Michigan, Thursday, July 23, 2003. President Bush, in campaign-style speeches in states vital to his re-election, sought Thursday to make sure voters give him credit for rebates heading to millions of taxpayers this week. (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak)
(Don't forget to rate this photo a "5"!)

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US CODE COLLECTION TITLE 4 > CHAPTER 1 > Sec. 3. Prev | Next Sec. 3. - Use of flag for advertising purposes; mutilation of flag Any person who, within the District of Columbia, in any manner, for exhibition or display, shall place or cause to be placed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, drawing, or any advertisement of any nature upon any flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America; or shall expose or cause to be exposed to public view any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign upon which shall have been printed, painted, or otherwise placed, or to which shall be attached, appended, affixed, or annexed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, or drawing, or any advertisement of any nature; or who, within the District of Columbia, shall manufacture, sell, expose for sale, or to public view, or give away or have in possession for sale, or to be given away or for use for any purpose, any article or substance being an article of merchandise, or a receptacle for merchandise or article or thing for carrying or transporting merchandise, upon which shall have been printed, painted, attached, or otherwise placed a representation of any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign, to advertise, call attention to, decorate, mark, or distinguish the article or substance on which so placed shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $100 or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or both, in the discretion of the court. The words ''flag, standard, colors, or ensign'', as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. Is that a real photo?

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13 - cute little buttons
http://cronus.com - enlightening and educational liberal fun

[JaneQPublic]

3. Yep, taken by an AP photographer (eom)

[Blue_State_Elitist]

2. Who cares

Its the republican flag anyway.

[havocmom]

4. A lot of us care.

Anybody but me old enough to remember Abby Hoffman geting busted for the shirt made outta a flag? Sure annoyes me to see all the stuff on the store shelves now.

A flag is not an autograph book. And it isn't the property of *

[JaneQPublic]

5. That's what the Republicans want us to believe...

But I will NEVER concede the American flag to that party which has done so much to ruin everything good about this country!

[Rose Siding]

9. No, it's not

It's the American flag.

[prolesunited]

11. Last time I checked

it still belonged to all of us and it's high time we reclaim it for the American people rather than the corporatocracy.

[Emboldened Chimp]

12. It's everybody's flag

The flag is not partisan. It is unamerican of you to think otherwise.

[Bandit]

52. No you are confusing the stars and bars with the US flag.

Confederate flag if you don't know what the stars and bars is.

[northzax]

6. el loophole

this code only applies to the District of Columbia.

more colonialism.

edited for spelling...

[Walt Starr]

32. The code is generally accepted as flag etiquette

Add to that the fact that the GOP wraps themselves in the flag and propose a Flag Protection Amendment which would make what Bush is doing a crime and thus an impeachable offense and the story here is not so much the FACT THAT BUSH DESECRATED MULTIPLE FLAGS, but that he did so hypocritically.

[Enraged_Ape]

7. I opt for the 30 days in Federal prison

He was going to take the whole month of August off anyway.

[TacticalPeek]

8. lessee now, G - e - o - r - g - e W. N - i - x - o -n

re: cbs.com, which see

[skip fox]

10. But we need Michigan code!

I think you've got a great point and were smart to put this together
but if you could get the Michigan law . . . You'd have something that
was a real embarassment. At least worth a ending chuckle on the
news talk shows over the weekend.

[KC]

18. Here you go :)

Michigan
The State of Michigan makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to publicly mutilate, deface, defile or show contempt for the U.S. flag or the Michigan state flag.

State Laws here

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/speech/flagburning/topic.aspx?topic=flag_statelaws

[JaneQPublic]

20. Bingo!

Thanks for doing the research, KC!

[KC]

21. You're welcome !

n/t

[JaneQPublic]

19. Good catch, Skip Fox and northzax

I missed the fact that the cited U.S. Code applies only to DC and not to MI, where Bush was at the time of the photo.

But whether or not it's technically legal to use the American Flag for signing autographs on, Chimpy's doing so ought to rancle the patriotic spirit of a lot of Americans -- and generate plenty of cognitive dissonance for conservatives who favor a ban on flag desecration.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[EOTE]

30. No...

there is expected protocol when dealing with matters regarding the flag. Writing on the flag, much like putting cheap plastic flag stickers is not part of that protocol. Ask a military man what he would think of the chimp in chief defacing a flag in that manner. Just because he has 'good intentions' or whatever doesn't mean he's still not defacing it. He did it because he's a moron and knows nothing of protocol or decorum.

[Walt Starr]

34. Read the caption,too

The Dumbass desecrated MULTIPLE flags at this event.

Apparently whenever the handlers stage a photo op event like this, they pass out the flags for the sheeple to get signed, thus making the participants in the propoganda event complicit in flag desecration.

[northzax]

29. whoa there, big fella

he wasn't writing on it for his own personal gain then why, exactly, was he signing autographs? Why was he in Michigan? oh yeah, there's this little election thing coming up. he certainly wants this person to vote for him, don't you think? isn't that personal gain?

[FubarFly]

60. So when you think of the American flag,

think George W. Bush.

:puke:

[Enraged_Ape]

14. Make sure you let these fine Americans...

know exactly how you feel about this outrage, and make sure you send them the link to the photo.

http://www.cfa-inc.org/

[FlashHarry]

16. Dupe

Not LBN, either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=78310&mesg_id=78310&page=

[expatriot]

17. repulsive! his messiah complex is going to be his ruin! .eom.

[Zero Gravitas]

22. Who cares?

A flag is a piece of cloth, nothing more, nothing less. I find worshipping the flag to be bizzare frankly. Its the principles that this country was founded upon that Bush* is descrating.

[qb]

25. It's the hypocrisy

Bush is from the party of "Protect the sanctity of our flag at all costs"

[salin]

58. The party perpetually pushing for a "no burning the flag amendment"

to the constitution. I would bet that the language of the various proposals for a flag burning amendment broaden out to "desecration".

I don't think it is a huge deal - but I do find it rather funny.

[LiberalTexan]

44. Who cares??????????

There is a LAW and whether you approve of protecting the flag is not an issue here. The issue is whether the law was broken or not.

If we don't like the laws we can change them. But, we must respect them while they are there. DUH.

[Walt Starr]

45. On top of breaking the MI law, he supported a similar law in Texas

that was struck down by the SCOTUS, not to mention the fact that he supports an amendment to the constitution that would make what he did in that picture a crime, and thus an impeachable offense.

OH THE HYPOCRISY!!!

Republicans only pay attention to tflag etiquette when it is politically expedient and blatantly violate it when that is also politically expedient.

[midnitemoleman]

23. I was hopeing to see his horn's from the back!

Darn good decever that one is.

[Walt Starr]

26. This would be an impeachable offense

under the GOP proposed Flag Protection Amendment.

Oh the hypocrisy!

[joshcryer]

47. That's simply amazing.

Heheh

[Crux]

27. Since when does the code for theDistrict of Columbia...

...apply to Michigan?

Don't we have more important, relevant, things to consider?

[JaneQPublic]

28. See Post #18 above.

It has a link to the MI Code, which is more appropriate in this instance.

[Enraged_Ape]

42. Bush committed a Michigan misdemeanor ON CAMERA

Would it be any different if he were shown buying beer for a teenager on a security cam?

If he were caught on a police camera with a joint in CA?

If he were seen on a grocery store security camera stuffing a can of soup into his jacket?

I THINK NOT. The Republicans tell us that the LAW is the LAW!

[Warren Stuart]

33. Yeah, how about Clinton's penis

You don't want to get off message now do ya?

[oldcoot]

43. Should the President of the United States understand flag etiquette?

Bush should be ashamed of himself for this and many other things.

[LawDem]

31. Oh the irony of it.

All of the "flag protection" statutes discussed above are almost certainly unconstitutional under Texas v. Johnson (the flag burning decision), at least in so far as they prohibit use of the flag for political expression. Signing autographs would probably meet the definition of political expression (doing so also meets the definition of being a moron). The irony here is that Bush has criticized the Texas v. Johnson decision and called for a constitutional amendment to overturn it. Little does he know, that absent that decision he would now be guilty of a crime.

For what it's worth, I pointed out this irony in an article I posted here at DU quite some time back: http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/07/14_flag.html

[joshcryer]

48. Beautiful article!

Wow! That's totally fucking awesome!

[Raenelle]

35. Tiring but true . . . If this had been Clinton . . .

n/t

[beanball]

36. Mr.Bush defends the flag

I wish he would defend our troops,bring them home." Hey Hey Bush a man with brains of straw and feet of clay,how many men have you got killed today?"

[skip fox]

37. Here's the issue politically:

W. is not issued a summons for flag desecration in Michigan because:

a. The law is only enforced when the intent is to show disrespect to the nation. Any other
descretation is legal, then. (But the law is not written that way!)

b. The law is not enforced when the suspect is unaware that what he is doing is breaking the
law. (Ignorance of the law is no excuse!)

We KNOW nothing is going to happen to W. for this beyond minor embarassment, but
that doesn't mean we shouldn't pick up the ball and run.

Another outcome: By putting this on the news, it will show just how crude this reelection
locomotive is--that they will take little flags and have the President sign them even though
they know it's "technically" against the law. And when they say "technically," we say
"spin" or "Now he's sounding like Clinton!" That oughta boil their peppercorns.

[Walt Starr]

38. IT'S NOT EVEN GOING TO BE A MINOR EMBARASSMENT!!!

The fuckers do this at EVERY LAST PROPOGANDA EVENT THEY STAGE!!!

This is a standard M.O. to get their sheeple clappers psyched about chimpboy!

They get everybody to participate in mass flag desecrations!

OH THE HYPOCRISY!!!

[skip fox]

41. . . . well, everyone can see how crude

it is . . . I mean, signing your own name on the American flag!

So we bring up the legal aspect basically to show this tasteless
and legally dubious act.

[bluedog]

39. Bush broke Flag Etiquette

7. The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2328/flag1.htm

[DUreader]

40. HE BROKE MI LAW, HE IS A LAW BREAKER!! A CRIMINAL!! SCUM!!!

ok

[Nottingham]

46. What it shows is how he uses the flag for his own reasons!

Just as he abused Americans Patriotism :bounce:

[DS1]

49. I'm so sorry for this

[nini]

51. looks like he's got fungus on his nails.

hissssssssss

[DeathvadeR]

50. The ego on this guy.....

makes me want to :puke:

[foole]

53. to report the incident and request charges be filed:

<<The State of Michigan makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to publicly mutilate, deface, defile or show contempt for the U.S. flag or the Michigan state flag.>>


LIVONIA POLICE DEPARTMENT
15050 Farmington Rd.
Livonia, MI 48154
734-466-2470

[foole]

57. the law is the law

I’d be curious to see the text of any exchanges folks have from the Livonia PD. It could be interesting (in the vein of “The Lazlo Letters”).

[Roon]

54. Hmm, I wonder why Drudge isn't covering this?

He went apeshit when that tennis player was photographed sitting on the flag. (her name escapes me)

[ElementaryPenguin]

55. What's his encore? Wiping his ass with the Constitution?

Been doing that since day one, of course!

[kskiska]

56. Remember how irate the Freepers were

when one of the Williams sisters was posed sitting on an American flag?

[johnnie]

59. Not my best....

but the idea remains

[SOS]

61. Bush always refers

to the United States government as "MY government". He probably figures the flag comes with it.

[MALiberal]

62. Bush Holds Campaign Fundraiser in Iraq??

[LiberalTexan]

63. Conservatives say

it is not a regulation flag. It is a paper flag. And, he has the right to do that.
That's the argument I'm in at a mostly conservative website. Anyone want to counter that one?

[TrueBlueDem]

67. They don't give war protesters a pass when they burn PAPER flags

Once again the conservatives are trying to squeak by on a technicality that they want available to no one BUT conservatives.

Personally, I find all flag desecration abhorrent, whether using it as scratch paper to sign autographs or burning it as a symbol of protest.

But since this is still a free country (albeit less so than it used to be), we ALL should have a right to desecrate a flag -- presidents and protesters alike.

The point of us making an issue of it is the HYPOCRICY of flag desecration by a president who wants to amend the Constitution to ban flag desecration.

To paraphrase Carville and Begala, It's the hypocricy, stupid.

By the way, what the hell IS a regulation flag?

[joshcryer]

68. Looks like a flag to me...

...just because it's small and not made of conventional materials does not mean that it is not a flag. It moves like a fabric.

If it was a t-shirt signing, perhaps it wouldn't be a deal and the Freepers would have an argument (though we'd still have irony on our side since it'd still be quite pathetic). But it's a flag.

[TryingToWarnYou]

64. "within the District of Columbia"

Since he is signing the flags in Michigan, he is not violating the law as its written here. Should be a Federal, across the board, pertaining to every state and territory law though IMO.

[TrueBlueDem]

65. Michigan has a law comparable to DC

See post No. 18 above for the link. This objection has already been raised and laid to rest.

[conservdem]

66. Is anyone really bothered by this?

I thinking getting bothered by this is foolish. I would think the same if Repubs got upset by a Dem doing this.

[FARAFIELD]

69. THATS FUNNY

As much as i would like to believe that Bush is that big a LOSER, another thread today shows the same photo but its an IRAQI Flag. I dont think we should get down in the gutter with the Freepers and make up photos and stories and EMAIL letters that are lies. I like to think that we want to win fair and square and not be as slimy as they are. Ill look for that thread i know it was today sometime.

[FARAFIELD]

70. SAME PICTURE AS ANOTHER THREAD

Someone posted a thread at 1:36pm with the same picture except it was an Iraqi flag. Actually if i had to pic between the two pics i would have to choose the American one as being real. Still its probably a fake because you cant see him AND its too good to be true.

[TrueBlueDem]

71. The photo is from the Associated Press

Click on the link in the original post:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030725/168/4s8z4.html

It's an AP story in Yahoo News, with credit given to an AP photographer named Charles Dharapak.

Looks about as legit as you can get.