McCain camp slams cross story skeptics

[maddezmom]

Source: CNN

(CNN) — John McCain’s campaign blasted critics who questioned the senator’s account of an incident during his time as a prisoner of war Monday, citing an account from his former fellow POW Orson Swindle and blaming the controversy on “the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd.”

During a presidential forum at Pastor Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church on Saturday, McCain told a story of a guard who wordlessly drew a cross in the dirt one Christmas, describing it as a moment that gave him strength.

Critics said that McCain, who was released in 1973, had not mentioned the incident until 2000, and had relayed it in the third person on at least one occasion. They also pointed to similarities between McCain’s account and a similar story in Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago, his account of life in the Soviet labor camp system.

McCain aide Michael Goldfarb, in a message posted on the campaign’s Web site Monday, said Swindle – now a campaign surrogate – told him the presumptive Republican nominee had related the story “’when we first moved in together .’ That was in the summer of 1971, Swindle said, though ‘time blurred’ and he couldn't be sure,” wrote Goldfarb.



Read more: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/18/mccain-camp-slams-skeptics-of-his-saddleback-cross-story/

[Drunken Irishman]

1. Well it's out there now...we'll see if it blows up or not.

This is a big risk, it could help McCain.

Or it could be proven true and damn him.

[tekisui]

2. Let's have it out.

The risk of it helping is small. The risk of it hurting is very high.

[Virginia Dare]

3. Pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd...LMAO!

I guess that's us?...:hi:

[Divine Discontent]

4. Warrior needs food badly!

Hey, Elf Princess, roll a 90 or higher on our 100-sided dice, and make the GOP disappear from our realm, would ya? LOL


McLame, McSame, McWar & More! www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[Qutzupalotl]

7. Bet that rolls off the table a lot.

[Divine Discontent]

10. needs its own little box. ha eom

[Faygo Kid]

5. What the hell is it supposed to mean?

I've never played Dungeons & Dragons, and don't know much about it. Wasn't that an '80s fad?

What a weird thing that was to say. I'm not offended, just saying, "huh?"

[Qutzupalotl]

11. I think it's a code phrase for bloggers.

Now that there are more of us than them, it's suddenly uncool. And we should listen to the Right about what is and isn't cool.

[Virginia Dare]

12. I have no idea what it means either..

Is he trying to paint us all devil worshiping heathens? These people are so friggin out of touch it's pathetic.

[JackInGreen]

17. I think it's more akin to the blogger "insult"

The article in full reads that line as

(taken from KOS, KOS took it from The McSame Blog)
-It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman's memory of war from the comfort of mom's basement, but most Americans have the humility and gratitude to respect and learn from the memories of men who suffered on behalf of others. John McCain has often said he witnessed a thousand acts of bravery while he was imprisoned, and though not every one has been submitted into the public record, they are remembered by the men who were there (one such only recently reported by Karl Rove though it escaped mention in any of Senator McCain's books). But as Swindle said, this is a "desperate group of people trying to make something out of nothing."

More an attempt to invoke the sterotypical blogger image they would like to propegate.

[Faygo Kid]

25. You're no doubt right. "Mom's basement?" LOL. Reminds me of the primaries.

That was a frequent charge leveled by those no longer here who are now spewing on certain other sites that need not be named.

Mom's long gone, and we never had a basement, anyway.

[Divine Discontent]

13. you know the GOP is a few decades behind on the times...

their kind thought that it was a totally hilarious slam and relevant! Can you IMAGINE the lack of focus of a McCain metamucil presidency, versus the high-energy 'let's fix it' mentality of an Obama presidency? Mind-numbing...

[Sin]

20. This is what I think

Well It's not fad.. I'll get to that in a min. It got mention in the 80' because of story's that players/kids were killing them self when their charters died.
So since the game dealt with Magic, Demons, and things that would be considered Occult the Religious Right at the time basically said It's turning our kids into devil worshipers they will be twisted to the dark side by this role play see look some one killed them self, must have been the devil.

Hence saying that a Dungeons and dragons crowed is going against the cross story id sort of like saying in an all together roundabout manner Devil worshipers are trying to discount a "good cristian man".

D&D is still going strong to this day don't play D&D my self but But Its Children and Grandchildren I do play
Not to offend table top gamers things that did from come from D&D would be massive multi player online games.

Like Uo,Everquest,Darkage of Camelot,World of Warcraft, and Warhammer online(and yes warhammer is a table top game like D&D) just now updated to mmpog.
So saying that it came from that crowed is kinda silly because WoW alone has 10 million active subscriptions.

[Faygo Kid]

22. I think Wikipedia may have nailed it.

"Typically, though by no means exclusively, D&D players are portrayed derogatively as the epitome of geekdom."

How can we be geeks, yet elitist snobs? Somebody is confused.

I go with the geek thing.

[Patchuli]

23. Nice teeth!

I play Diablo Expansion myself and am a fan of the Grateful Dead. Obviously, Diablo and losing hardcore characters to death hasn't made me too nuts. Neo-cons and my rethug sister make me nuts and fundies that give Christians a bad name!

[Alcibiades]

24. D&D was a fad for some

But not for the elite geeks. It's a way of life. D&D still exists, though there's probably a lot more of us playing Magic the Gathering now.

[Zynx]

30. Clearly the McCain campaign had a poor roll for their press release skill.

[underpants]

34. WE NEED TO HAVE A FORUM ON THAT!!!

We were once known as the "Grassy Knoll crowd" ala Ari Fleischer

:rofl:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. So he's being given an alibi by a campaign surrogate named Swindle.

:rofl:

[2KS2KHonda]

9. Jinx!

:D

[maddezmom]

18. perfect isn't it

:evilgrin:

[2KS2KHonda]

8. Swindle? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Nobody could make this shit up.
;-)

[truthisfreedom]

14. Why they had to drag DnD into it, I'll never know. Idiots.

They're really screwing around over there in McConeville.

[RamboLiberal]

15. FWIW Swindle is also a former-POW and a long time Repub

Orson Swindle (Born March 8, 1937), a decorated Vietnam War POW, was a Commissioner of the Federal Trade Commission of the United States from December 18, 1997 to June 30, 2005. He had previously served as Assistant Secretary of Commerce during the Reagan Administration.

He previously served as State Director for the U.S. Department of Agriculture. In 1994 and in 1996 he was a Republican candidate for Congress in Hawaii's 1st Congressional District. In 1996 he held the incumbent, Democrat Neil Abercrombie, to 50% of the vote. Swindle served in the U.S. Marine Corps, and he retired as a Lieutenant Colonel.

Swindle served as executive director of "United We Stand, America", and spokesman for Ross Perot's 1992 presidential campaign.

Swindle is a Senior Policy Advisor at the lobbying firm of Hunton & Williams in Washington, DC. His specific charge is within the firm’s Center for Information Policy Leadership, which was founded to “develop innovative, pragmatic approaches to privacy and information security issues from a business-process perspective while respecting the privacy interests of individuals.” Their clients include American Express, Eli Lilly, GE, Microsoft, and Wal-Mart.

Swindle is also on the board of Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW), an independent political advocacy group that seeks to eliminate waste, mismanagement, and inefficiency in the federal government. Throughout its history, CAGW has been accused of fronting lobbying efforts of corporations to give them the appearance of "grassroots" support. In part, this is because CAGW has accepted donations from Phillip Morris, the Olin Foundation, the Bradley Foundation, Microsoft, Merrill-Lynch, and Exxon-Mobil. CAGW also has ties to convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff While CAGW describes itself as non-partisan, it has endorsed John McCain<5> for president and donated $11,000 to his campaign or groups controlled by him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Swindle

I'd call his muddled memory suspect.

[JackInGreen]

16. Roll

Save vs. Plagiarism.

Succeed, and the media buys your horse shit for another week or so.
Fail, and you are turned out for the traitor and bastard that you are in front of the entire world.
BOTCH, and you return to the prison camp, and that moment, to relive those parts of your life while your physical body rots in a sanatorium somewhere until it gives out.

[Politicalboi]

19. If they get away with this

They are going to steal the election. This is plagiarism at it's finest and they are denying it. I think MaGoo's whole life is plagiarized.

[Virginia Dare]

28. Nothing new. Shrub's whole life was based on a lie..

his Mommy and Poppy bought and/or bullied somebody for everything he ever had. He was a silver-spooned New England-bred alcoholic dull-witted little momma's boy who was sold as a swaggering Texas cowboy.

[IndianaGreen]

21. McCain. the POW Drama Queen!

As he waited, head down, he felt a presence. Slowly he looked up and saw a skinny old prisoner squat down beside him. The man said nothing. Instead, he used a stick to trace in the dirt the sign of the Cross. The man then got back up and returned to his work.

As Solzhenitsyn stared at the Cross drawn in the dirt his entire perspective changed. He knew he was only one man against the all-powerful Soviet empire. Yet he knew there was something greater than the evil he saw in the prison camp, something greater than the Soviet Union. He knew that hope for all people was represented by that simple Cross. Through the power of the Cross, anything was possible.

This story was actually excerpted from "The Gulag Archipelago" by Alexander Solzhenitsyn, which was released in the US in 1973.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/17/122230/161/239/569299

Thanks to Kossack rickrocket for the above gem!

[HopeHoops]

26. Dungeons and Dragons????

Wow. I suppose they're listening to Devo while watching Betty Boop cartoons backwards to look for communist gestures.

For the record, I am a Dungeons and Dragons geek of years past - like when John Anderson ran against Carter and Reagan. Is McCain out of touch? Hmm... I'll roll a D-12 to find out - A 12!!! Yep, he's down 9 hit points!

[and-justice-for-all]

27. Take 2 damage McToad of Grouchy old mandom.

[Hugabear]

29. Funny - when I roll my d20 for McCain's charisma, it keeps giving me a '1'

D&D FTW

[Zynx]

31. McCain has a -15 to any charisma roll due to an awkward smile affliction from birth.

[NYC Liberal]

32. So where's the debunking? Notice they never actually did that.

The ONLY attempt to disprove the charge is the one line by Goldfarb, and it basically says "I think he told it in 71. Not sure. Maybe. It's hazy."

Yeah ok

[lynnertic]

33. Pro-obama d&d crowd? well if that's what critical thinking gets you called these days

And we're probably the only ones who would care to look up how to spell the story's original author, Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

I mean, I saw two different official versions of McCain's cross story just yesterday, one where McCain says a fellow prisoner drew a cross w his toe and a second from 2000 where a GUARD draws it in the sand on Christmas Morning.

This reminds me of the McCain stories where he gives the names of members of a particular football team as his company-mates to his Viet Cong interrogators: except the name of the team changed depending upon who McCain was standing in front of.

Everyone has these kinds of stories. But I remember how HRC was raked over the coals for her 'Bosnian sniper' story. It's human, but not Presidential, do you think?