Centrist Democrats Reserved Toward Dean

[goobergunch]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Presidential candidate Howard Dean is surging in fund raising and winning over supporters, but leading centrist Democrats still have reservations about the viability of his candidacy.

"Dean has certainly created a lot of excitement and has hooked on to what is the hot button issue," said Al From, founder and chief executive of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. "His anti-war stance has helped him an awful lot. The enthusiasm is real. But in the long run, the Democratic Party will not elect a president who has not crossed a security threshold." :puke:

Dean has vaulted to the top tier among the nine Democratic candidates, raising $7.5 million in the second quarter of fund raising and gaining thousands of followers through the Internet. :bounce: His staunch opposition to the U.S.-led war against Iraq does not go over well with centrist Democrats, however, whose leaders circulated a memo in May that suggested Democrats could lose badly in 2004 if the former Vermont governor were their candidate. :puke:

On the eve of a Democratic Leadership Council summer meeting in Philadelphia, From said it was essential that the Democrats have a nominee strong on national security to be competitive with President Bush. :puke:

more...http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CENTRIST_DEMOCRATS?SITE=PAPHQ&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[madfloridian]

1. Good old Al.

He's at it again. He is not my kind of Democrat.

[janx]

6. OK, what's the real reason we keep hearing from this guy about

Dean?

It must be that the DLC cannot control him.

[Khephra]

8. The DLC is 100% behind Lieberman

I've subscribed to their daily mail, and the only candidate they ever mention positively is Lieberman.

[Cha]

63. Well there ya go! My worst nightmare as I suspected!

They have got to be kidding?

Howard Dean if you weren't in the race I would be very bummed right now!

[JohnKleeb]

114. agh

[johnkerryArizona04]

35. *Golf Clap* and your no democrat

I hear the greens are recruiting?

[Cha]

64. Good ol dlc!

Losers in 2002 and they want to do it again.

[johnkerryArizona04]

77. We had nothing to do with 02' that was all Gephardt and Daschle

And I'd love it if you'd quite implying that DLC embarresments like Daschle represent the DLC, they don't

Howard Dean and his campaign manager Joe Trippi have done a service for the Democratic Party, that it can never repay--> the internet highway.

BUT, it doesn't mean he is neccisarily the best person to run against George Bush, in my opinion.

I'm sure you see it differently, but lets be civil.

I'll promise right here, that I won't be mean-spirited as long as you don't.

[stickdog]

112. And what did the DLC have in mind for '02 other than licking Bush's boots?

Just curious.

[Cheswick2.0]

119. wow, take credit, pass off blame

I like how you are taking credidt for Clinton winning but shirking blame for 2002. That's kind of weasely don't you think?

[JohnKleeb]

115. how madfl a not a dem

because she doesnt think that in order to win we must become more moderate and not be the party of Kennedy. I know Kerry is DLC but I dont think hes one of these lets move the party to the right types.

[Adamocrat]

2. Hrm...

I thought I was a centrist Democrat, but I must be mistaken. When I think of the DLC, I think of conservative leaning Democrats (i.e. Republites). Maybe I just don't fit in anywhere?

One thing I know for sure, the DLC is NOT the path to follow. I'll stick with Governor Dean as long as he's in the running, and I'll support whoever wins the nomination. It's painfully obvious to everyone watching the race that it won't be Lieberman, Daschle, or any other GOP appeasers.

-A

Howard Dean for America!

[johnkerryArizona04]

36. umm Dean is a DLC Governor ...

What part of this does his supporters NOT understand?

[Cha]

65. Then why is the dlc "reserved" concerning Govenor Dean?

:kick:

A lot of the politicians were dlc at one time or another. Some evolve..some don't.

[johnkerryArizona04]

81. "Democratic win of the Democratic Party"

That phrase scared the hell out of From. And From is just a figure head. the DLC's real power is in the Progressive Policy Institute like Jose Cerda III, who may be up for a Appeals Court nominee if we ever get a Democrat in office.

You should check out his piece "COP OUT" on www.ndol.org.

It shows how the Bush administration is not only putting this country at risk in foreign affairs, but on the homefront too because of his lack of support for the COPS program, that put 100,000 new cops on America's streets, but the reserve call ups for the war and occupation that are increasing and now many of those reservists that were supposed to come home...ARE NOT.

Its a travesty what "Dubya" has done to our police and fire departments.

So lets agree to disagree and defeat "Dubya"

let the primary commence!

=)

[Lostnote03]

94. I agree!!!

.....I believe that you pointed out the obvious!!!.....The GOP has NOT enhanced security at all......Rove and Cabal will attempt to frame the "strong on defense" angle again just as they did prior to the 2002 election......Frohm is simply falling into the "trap" again set up by the GOP media machine.....Defense and Economic conditions are the two principle reponsibilities of the Govt. and the Bush regime has failed miserably in both areas.....Frohm and his fellow DLC'ers are simply not listening to Main St. America.....I will be behind whichever candidate is chosen however I believe that Kucinich is the voice of the Dem party and I hope that he recieves an appointment if not selected.....I tend to believe that the GOP is most afraid of Kerry and am inclined to side with him because I believe that he most effectivly can kick the GOPs butt.....

[ozone_man]

96. Nope, any dem is not good enough, Lieberman, Kerry for example.

We need someone who will change the course we are on and restore the democracy. Lieberman, Kerry, Gephardt, all voted for the Iraq war and represent the status quo, nearly indistinguishable from Bush.

[Lostnote03]

101. Ozone....

.....Being a member of the big tent I certainly respect you and others that premise their decision on the Iraqi resolution......I disagree with the similarity that you stated between Lieberman and Kerry......Kerrys statement of the need for regime change in our country, to me reflects one pissed off Senator that believes that both he and the American people were betrayed.....

[Rose Siding]

3. Call me crazy but

how can From's "security threshhold" be conformity to Bush's security stragtegy, which is based on lies, costs us our allies, strengthens our enemies and empties our treasury? How can that be defined as "security"?

[asjr]

7. DLC-Dean

No, you are not crazy. If you are we all are. Al should be kicked out of the DLC. He is making the DLC irrelevant. I don't like it when Democrats bash Democrats. I realize he wasn't "bashing" Dean, but since when does the voter have to follow the DLC? I just want to win, whoever is the nominee.

[IndianaGreen]

15. "I just want to win, whoever is the nominee."

What if the nominee supported the war in Iraq, supports the continuing occupation of Iraq, supports PATRIOT Act, voted to restrict abortion rights, and opposes giving gays the same rights and benefits as heteros?

Would you vote for such a nominee?

I am not sure I would.

[asjr]

18. centrists

Go wash your mouth out with soap. You should know very well I didn't want anything like that. It seems you are just being obtuse.

[ozone_man]

99. Ha, well ask yourself how many of these items the current

candidates voted for:

"What if the nominee supported the war in Iraq, supports the continuing occupation of Iraq, supports PATRIOT Act, voted to restrict abortion rights, and opposes giving gays the same rights and benefits as heteros?"

I think you will find that only Dean and probably Kucinich pass this litmus test, while Lieberman, Kerry and Gephardt fail.

[asjr]

20. centrist

Go wash your mouth out with soap.

[Alexander]

121. Well, which Democratic candidate is like that?

There are none that I can think of. So this is just hypothetical nonsense.

[IndianaGreen]

122. As in Vietnam, the war is the deal maker, or breaker

This is why I am quite prepared to vote for someone like Bob Graham if Dean, Kucinich, Mosley-Braun, and Sharpton were to dropout from the race (or in the case of Sharpton, remains as a symbolic candidate despite having no delegates).

Kerry is the worse of the lot! Why? It is because Kerry had the most going for him. His credentials were impeccable, at least on paper. However, Kerry's performance on the debate leading to the Iraq war resolution, and his subsequent behavior to this very day, has shown serious flaws in his character. Kerry cannot be trusted, anymore than we can trust Clinton after he made his infamous "move on" statement about Bush's SOTU speech on Larry King early this week.

My Congresswoman, Julia Carson, voted for PATRIOT Act, but she has redeemed herself since then by fighting against the Republicans in Congress. Carson voted against the Iraq war resolution.

We don't expect Democrats in Congress to cast the perfect vote all the time, but we have the right to demand that they stand on the principles that made the Democratic Party the party of choice for the working men and women of this country. At this point in our history, voting for Bush's legislative proposals and judicial nominees is inappropriate behavior by a Democratic elected official.

Voting for the war is bad enough, continuing to support the war in Iraq is worse! This war is not over!

Why doesn't Kerry join other veterans and demand the immediate, unconditional withdrawal from Iraq?

Kerry's experience ain't worth shit! We had lots of "experienced" government officials drag this country into Vietnam and other conflicts where American blood was shed for fucken nothing!

Today Paul Wolfowitz pretty much said that Americans are dying in Iraq for "fuzzy intelligence"!

BRING THEM HOME NOW!

Statement of Purpose

BRING THEM HOME NOW! is a coordinating committee of military families, veterans, active duty personnel, reservists and others opposed to the ongoing war in Iraq and galvanized to action by George W. Bush's inane and reckless challenge to armed Iraqis resisting occupation to "Bring 'em on."

Our mission is to mobilize military families, veterans, and GIs themselves to demand: an end to the occupation of Iraq and other misguided military adventures; and an immediate return of all US troops to their home duty stations.

The truth is coming out. The American public was deceived by the Bush administration about the motivation for and intent of the invasion of Iraq. It is equally apparent that the administration is stubbornly and incompetently adhering to a destructive course. Many Americans do not want our troops there. Many military families do not want our troops there. Many troops themselves do not want to be there. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis do not want US troops there.

Our troops are embroiled in a regional quagmire largely of our own government's making. These military actions are not perceived as liberations, but as occupations, and our troops are now subject to daily attacks. Meanwhile, without a clear mission, they are living in conditions of relentless austerity and hardship. At home, their families are forced to endure extended separations and ongoing uncertainty.

As military veterans and families, we understand that hardship is sometimes part of the job. But there has to be an honest and compelling reason to impose these hardships and risks on our troops, our families, and our communities. The reasons given for the occupation of Iraq does not rise to this standard.

Without just cause for war, we say bring the troops home now!

Not one more troop killed in action. Not one more troop wounded in action. Not one more troop psychologically damaged by the act of terrifying, humiliating, injuring or killing innocent people. Not one more troop spending one more day inhaling depleted uranium. Not one more troop separated from spouse and children. This is the only way to truly support these troops, and the families who are just as much part of the military as they are.

Bush says "Bring 'em on." We say "BRING THEM HOME NOW!"

http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

[johnkerryArizona04]

37. OMG.. lol, hate democrats bashing democrats!?

try talking to each and every single Dean supporter?

They are the most hateful , spiteful people I have ever met.

[Cha]

66. No they are Not!! The Dean Supporters I have met are the most

Brilliant, Loving, Gracious, Willing to Stand Up for What Is Right, kinda People I have ever met! And I have met a Lot of them!
:kick:

And they will not back down from someone who is bashing Dean.

[johnkerryAriz04]

83. Not the one's ive met in Arizona

The last meetup I went too, there was 100 people there!

A woman named Carolyn Maxon "bitched, whined and complained" pardon my language about the DLC for a half hour, then called Sen Kerry and Edwards traitors and "scum suckers".

After that, about 50 got up and left during this tirade.

They finished with about a 5 minute finish on who exactly Howard Dean is ...

Thats' my impression of Dean supporters, having gone to 5 Meetups now.

I was a Howard Dean supporter, Despite the DLC, now I support Kerry simply because Dean supporters are WACKOS!

[flashbackfl]

124. Me too!

I love Dean people, they are so cool!

[stickdog]

69. You couldn't be more wrong.

Now piss off and die, please. >)

[Lostnote03]

100. StickDog???

.......I'm one that has respected your efforts regarding Wellstones inquiry and also one that attempts to read your posts for insight.....I would like to ask you for your thoughts regarding Kerry as I am inclined to believe that he can do the most "realtime" damge to the GOP.....If it boils down to his Iraqi vote which of course is troubling just pass on it and let me know whats up with the Wellstone inquiry...The last that I had heard of it was the mechanical prelimenary......Btw it is Kerrys experience in investigating the Bushs that tend to make me believe he may feel the need for settling old scores.......best wishes

[stickdog]

117. What it boils down to is that Dean is leading the Party w/ guts & honesty

while Kerry is listening to his handlers and running as safe and, so far, relatively timid campaign.

Some things simply need to said right now. As long as Dean is the one saying these things the clearest, the loudest and the quickest, he has my full support -- as well as the full support of the little network of activists I most often work with.

On certain issues and "vs. Bush" comparisons, I like Kerry's positioning slightly better, so I haven't written him off. However, I have been very disappointed with John Kerry's "safety first" campaign and every passing day that he allows Howard Dean to lead puts me more firmly in Dean's camp.

IMHO, Bush's "tremendous popularity" is based on one thing and one thing only: getting a free ride -- both from the media and his so-called Democratic opposition. Only by hammering him mercilessly Dean-style for the next 16 months can we hope to break through the false hero facade that the timid Democratic leadership has allowed him to erect in deference to the 9/11 attack.

Nothing, and I mean, nothing has emerged on the Wellstone plane crash front for quite sometime. The complete recent silence on this issue has been a little disturbing, and every one of my FOIA requests has been denied or has yet to be answered.

[Eloriel]

125. Well said! Bravo!

Perhaps esp. that free ride biz re Bush.

Standing O on all of it.

Eloriel

[LiberalTexan]

91. The Dean supporters I have met

are the most varied group of people I've ever seen involved in politics. Most people I meet are ones that have never woken up to politics before but just can't take this regime. We even have some ex-Republicans coming to the meetings saying "I just can't take it anymore"............

If you think Dean supporters are spiteful, perhaps it's from reading their enthusiasm here. It's hard to read emotions on the internet.

I can tell you I mulled over for FOUR MONTHS who to support and I just came out this week in support of Dean. If I thought Dean supporters were hateful, I wouldn't have joined them. I've been here for two years. I would say I have earned a pretty good reputation here and it isn't for being hateful.

[Cha]

93. This poster is a disruptor! And a disruptor only ...I don't believe

a word of what it says! the trolls are out tonight.

[MODemocrat]

103. My friends don't see me as hateful

Just because I love Howard Dean and what he stands for.

You go DEAN

[tsipple]

4. Memo to From: Shut Up Already!

You did such a great job in 2002, and we're all eager for a repeat. (Not!)

[Pallas180]

25. AGREED! BTW I heard GEphardt laid out that plan in 2002.

DLC my ass.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[johnkerryAriz04]

84. Would you like a little cheese with that whine?

2002 was lost well before November.

2002 was lost in 2000 when redistricting happened and Democrats got squished together.

You want to change the electoral process?

Push for Independent Redistricting Commissions!

[Cha]

95. No, the election wasn't lost at all! fuck boy bush got in

through the 5 judges on the supreme court appointed by his daddy and other rite winger zealots.

the chimp is going down... no chimps allowed in our Nation's House!!



edited to correct judges appointers.

[Rose Siding]

97. Tombstoned, zidzi

Broad attacks on a candidate's supporters look like a new thing to watch for.

[liberalnurse]

5. Yea, Dean is the HOT TICKET.....

That is why the "planted" report. It won't work because Dean's camp is successfully active with getting out the message as is Dean himself. Thats what separates him from all the rest. He is with the people .....Media lacks luster when going up against the real thing.

[IDUDOYOU]

9. Like I stated earlier today

It is not what one says, it is what the other person hears.

Dean supporters are really rubbing some people the wrong way.
And these are Democrats! Just imagine the message that might be relayed to independents, Republicans, and others.
Remember, a group is judged by its least common denominator.
If some Dean supporter goes ballistic because of some criticism, what does that say about the candidate.
People look for emotional stability in a leader and their followers. If someone cannot exhibit this, people tend to look for someone else to lead.

I think some people believe they need to hit back as hard as possible because Gore did not in 2000.
Sometimes people's initial reaction is to do the complete opposite of what failed before, but sometimes that fails even worse.

If you want to support Dean, fine with me.
But don't drag everyone else down because they do not support Dean.
Just because someone's face does not turn bright red when they give a speech does not mean they are not motivated or passionate.

"Champions are made when no one else is around."

"Gentleman can agree to disagree without being disagreeable."

[Khephra]

14. Lets look at what you say

It is not what one says, it is what the other person hears.

(Then what's the point of saying anything if people hear what they want to hear?)

Dean supporters are really rubbing some people the wrong way.

(Dean supporters...you're stereotyping an entire group here. Does each and every Dean supporter act the same way? I think not.)

And these are Democrats! Just imagine the message that might be relayed to independents, Republicans, and others.

(What? The message that we're charged up and not willing to be attacked any more by either the RW, the media, or fellow Democrats? I suppose we should just lie back and enjoy being screwed?)

Remember, a group is judged by its least common denominator.

(So what groups do you belong to so I can judge them by your words? I'm sure they'll be happy to know that you're out here representing them without their knowledge.)

If some Dean supporter goes ballistic because of some criticism, what does that say about the candidate.

(It says that the supporter went ballistic and nothing about the candidate. There's no causual connection there. That's like saying "Ann Coulter likes the Dead. What does that say about the Dead?)

People look for emotional stability in a leader and their followers. If someone cannot exhibit this, people tend to look for someone else to lead.

(Some of the most unstable posters here have been anti-Dean posters. What does that say about their candidates? Play fair here.)

I think some people believe they need to hit back as hard as possible because Gore did not in 2000.

(This is the first thing you've said that makes sense)

Sometimes people's initial reaction is to do the complete opposite of what failed before, but sometimes that fails even worse.

(It sure doesn't look like it's failing to me. Dean's numbers are rising and he's getting more and more coverage. Much better coverage than Gore did, that's for sure.)

If you want to support Dean, fine with me.

(Thank you for your permission.)

But don't drag everyone else down because they do not support Dean.

(You mean like you're doing to Dean and his supporters?)

Just because someone's face does not turn bright red when they give a speech does not mean they are not motivated or passionate.

(Ok, the second correct thing you've said here.)

"Champions are made when no one else is around."

(But if no one else is around, you won't get elected either.)

"Gentleman can agree to disagree without being disagreeable."

(Tell that to the rest of the other candidates' supporters, and then I'll feel you're being fair.)

[Cha]

68. Thanks Khep! What can I say? I very much needed to read

Your post just then!:-) Excellent Points! :kick:

[Eloriel]

16. Independents and Republicans are gravitating to Dean, so

I guess your problems are just your own.

Independents for Dean
http://deanindependents.org/

Repubicans for Dean
http://republicansfordean.blogspot.com/

Eloriel

[stickdog]

74. Sorry.

I couldn't hear you through the static of your obvious agenda.

[johnkerryArizona04]

39. Yea, a hot piece of horse crap

[Corgigal]

10. security threshold?

What does this mean? I don't think Dean will continue reading a book about a goat while America gets attacked.

[IDUDOYOU]

11. But Dean did say

that America would be a second rate power in the future.
OK Dean supporters, not the exact quote, but the basic message.

NO ONE wants to hear America may be a second rate power.
They want to hear how America will remain a superpower.

Major misstatement by Dean.
A line that will pop up again.

[lastliberalintexas]

12. Umm, no

If you're going to act like you're quoting a candidate, give the exact quote, please. Your paraphrased version of any candidate's supposed statement isn't enough for me.

I don't jump into threads about other candidates to bash them. Why do you do this with Dean? And so we're clear, who are you actually supporting? Why not post something positive about him or her? There are plenty of good things to say about any of the 9. It would be better if we ALL stayed positive, no?

[peterh]

19. yeah, it might come back to haunt him….

It would depend on how he responds and how it’s conveyed by the media.

<http://billmon.org/archives/000069.html>


Beyond the examples given in the link, I feel just pointing out where Russia was once a superpower, but went bankrupt with their emphasis of military over domestic issues. The same can be said of the U.S. currently. It could also be said that while we might remain/retain the number one spot from a military standpoint, we’ll soon be regarded as a second rate country from a humanistic standpoint.

[Sean Reynolds]

26. But I agree.

I don't feel the United States should be the dominate, remaining superpower. I'm really happy Dean agrees with me on this issue.

Being the only superpower in a world made up of unstable leaders tips the scare unfairly in your direction. You can be a stable nation, with a solid military and great economy, with little reserve toward becoming THE most dominating nation in the world.

[Pallas180]

28. No Country stays top power forever, as Tony Blair said & should know

In his speech before Congress he warned them about that
and more or less said the people you step on on the way
up are the same you meet on the way down.

Americans are not that stupid that they dont see no one
will send soldiers or money to Iraq to help us because Bushco insulted
our "old Europe" allies.

Bushco insults are bankrupting this country and army.

[artr2]

54. No just one more misquote by you

That's not what he said. Again just another tactic to get us at each others throats. Sir, how about saying something positive about YOUR candidate? I have seen your name in lots of Dean threads and your always tearing Dean down. May I suggest that you are running your credibility here buy not supporting a Democratic candidate and just tearing down. Constructive criticism is one thing, mindless regurgitation of republican & DLC spin points doesn’t show any effort of thought and may get you called a freeper by some

[stickdog]

78. What Dean said was as controversial as saying what goes up must come down.

Did Bush arrive in the White House with a better security record?

[IndianaGreen]

13. The Republican wing of the Democratic Party wants a DLC candidate

These "centrists" are nothing but middle of the road dead armadillos, as Jim Hightower would characterize them. They are not to be confused with moderates. Dean is a moderate, one that is liberal on some issues, and less so in others. Most voters are moderates, as are many Democrats. The centrists are those that refuse to tale a stand on principle. They don't believe in principle. The only thing they believe is in whatever they think would endear them to the public, including bigotry and prejudices. They are incapable of leadership, for leadership means convincing people that some of the things they hold dear are myths and lies, e.g., the US military never commits war crimes.

I am sure that someone will come along and point out that Dean was a member of the DLC. Well, Kerry is a member of Skull and Bones, the same secret society that gaves us Prescott Bush and his son George, and grandson George W. My answer to them would be, does Dean support the goals and aspirations of DLC founder and CEO Al From? The answer is an obvious no! Does Kerry support the goals and aspirations of which other Skull and Bones notables were known for? I don't know the answer to that.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaGreen]

70. We are everywhere, babe!

Everywhere! We were there during the New Deal, and we were the ones that first recognized the danger that Hitler posed to the world.

[johnkerryAriz04]

85. gawd, i love you guys =)

seriously :)

[IndianaGreen]

104. We are facing a national crisis!

If Bush is not defeated in 2004, we might as well pack our bags and move to Canada because there won't be much of a country left by the time Bush and his gang of criminals get done destroying the last vestiges of American democracy.

But then, what do I know, I am just one of those Reds you were taught to hate since kindergarten.

:+

[reprobate]

17. If I hear the DLC called "centrist" one more time......

....I'm gonna go cut me a switch and teach them some manners.

[IndianaGreen]

21. They are centrist Republicans

Al From wants to atract Republicans disenchanted with the way fundies have taken over their party, and that are upset about the collapse of the Reform Party and disappointed with Ross Perot.

[johnkerryArizona04]

41. And if I hear you guys call yourselves liberals, ill throw up

:puke:

you guys arn't liberals.

Liberals would want a free world, and a free economy.

Hrm, Anti NAFTA, Anti Iraq war?

Not such a good record so far!

[Forkboy]

57. Well puke coming out of your mouth

would a be step up.

[Cha]

71. Forkboy, have I told you lately that you Rock?

:bounce: :kick:

[Forkboy]

79. Thanks zidzi !!

:)

[Khephra]

61. I'm a liberal

and I support Dean.

Why?

Because he doesn't waffle.

[MODemocrat]

105. Why in the hell do you love this endless useless Iraq war?

I would love to see our soldiers come home. Seeing them getting killed every day sickens me. Don't tell me I'm not a liberal; I've probably voted more times than you could ever believe, and it's always been for a Democrat. I hate republicans. Go ahead, shoot me.

[robcon]

47. The DLC represents centrist Democrats.

Pulling a hissy fit when you disagree with someone is silly, reprobate.

[Cha]

72. No they don't ....uh uh! the dlc is repugnant lite..

and everyone knows it.

[johnkerryAriz04]

86. that kind of negativity is why you will always be in the minority

sorry ...

[Forkboy]

92. that coming from you Professor Positive

is downright hilarious!

[Cha]

98. It's not "negativity" .. It's the creepy reality! I wish it weren't

that way! But I'm only more convinced than I ever was. the dlc stands for ~democrats/lose/constantly~

[5thGenDemocrat]

128. Well JKA04

I'm probably more of a centrist than most here but, I gotta say, if you're the type of "Democrat" who supports Kerry, I'll be looking to cast my vote for someone (anyone) else. I have yet to make up my mind who I'm supporting in '04 (I'm of the belief that one shouldn't make decisions until as much info as possible has been obtained and sorted through -- and I have months to go until I need to decide).
But you're rude. You are patronizing. Rather than being snotty with all of us here, why don't you tell your two-faced, buttfaced candidate to get a haircut that doesn't look like something I pull out of my drain after a shower? Oh, and tell Senator Waffle to get some principles, too, while he's at it. "Me-tooing" pResident Dopey doesn't quite cut it for THIS Fifth Generation Democrat.
Have a nice day.
John
Now considering the other eight candidates.

[reprobate]

76. Let me suggest that "Centrist Democrat" is an ozymoron.

Do I disagree with the true purpose of the DLC? Damn right I do, cause in my opinion the only purpose of the DLC is to destroy the democratic party, and they've done a damn good job so far. I believe that the DLC is a creature of the same corporations that own the republican national party.

The DLC claims that by representing the "center", they can bring the candidate corporate contributors to their campaign funds. The greater the corporate contribution the greater the corporate influence on our govenmental decisions. That's exactly what got us in this situation in the first place. The politician becomes no longer either a democrat or republican, but simply a publicly paid corporate hack.

Remember that the corporate interest is ALWAYS opposed to the interest of the individual. By encouraging politicians to become corporate whores instead of finding ways for the politician to better represent the people (supposed to be the very purpose of the democratic party), the DLC is betraying the very people that it claims to work for.

Call me a nutcase if you want, but I'm from the old school. I believe that an employee should represent the interests of his employer, not his employers competitors, and we are the employers of every politician in the country.

[johnkerryAriz04]

87. Your entitled to your opinion, but your wrong

Corporate Interest can live side by side with the Individual.

Imagine.... Ben and Jerrys

tada!

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

:hippie:

[ThorsteinVeblen]

22. Centrist Democratic "LEADERS" opposed to Dean

I am a centrist and Dean is the ONLY candidate I will vote for. There are some things you just do not comprimise on. One of things is war. War is only justified by extreme circumstances. Those who support war as a political tool to consolidate domestic power and extend empire are evil.

Dean is THE foreign policy candidate. He has a vision. The rest of the idiot candidates DO NOT.

[johnkerryArizona04]

42. Finally, a real, honest Dean supporter

Who has an articulate reason for supporting dean other than a vicerol reaction to hearing him speak...

[ThorsteinVeblen]

120. Are you being sarcastic?

Do you mean "visceral"?

[w4rma]

23. The title should read: "DLC Leadership Reserved Toward Dean"

The Democratic Leadership Council decided against inviting the nine candidates to its meeting Sunday and Monday.

Is the DLC lobbiest group bolting the Democratic Party, altogether? Or is the DLC just a group used by Republcans to smear Democrats?

IMHO, the DLC leadership has no credibility. They have been wrong about everything for as long as I can remember.

[Umbram]

24. Dean IS Centrist

I'm curious as to how progressive Dean would be if he actually won the election.

My guess, the Doctor will become Doctor-Do-Little.

Centrists vote Dean; people looking for progress should be looking at Kucinich.

[Pallas180]

27. Kucinich will never win the nomination. Also his ProPalestinian stance

will probably hurt him.

I havent made up my mind yet. Dont know enough, but
never bushlite Lieberman. That I know.

Not Kucinich, cause I think it would be a wasted vote

Gephardt forget it...establishment pro-war imperialism

Like Edwards and Graham exposing bushco 9/11 and all

Dean beginning to sound good, but I want to know more.

Want someone who will restore civil liberties, no pre-emptive
crap - restore America and economic sanity. NO imperialism
ideas.

[Pallas180]

29. BTW-did you all hear of a group called AR15 trolling here?

was on yesterday's latest breaking. So when someone doesnt
sound quite right, or seems to be planting disruptive stuff
think twice.

[IndianaGreen]

30. Are you talking to yourself?

I am wondering if you noticed that you replied to your own post...

[Pallas180]

32. Indiana. do you have objection to people posting thoughts twice or

three times in a row?

You object to people being notified of AR 15 trolls?

Do you have a problem? Other than you want everyone to
vote for Green candidates and Nader once again?

Thank you for sharing. I know exactly what I'm posting.

[Umbram]

34. I hope this wasn't directed at me.

:|

I've been reading DU for a long time, and figured the new forums were a good excuse for me to register and start posting.

[w4rma]

44. Massive information dump on Gov. Howard Dean

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=43435&mesg_id=43435&page=

[Pallas180]

52. OK W4RMA - his stand on standard of living, Nafta, unions, guns,

et al made up my mind.

He sounds awfully good.

But after what we've been through with the dimson
doing exactly the opposite of everything he ever said,
not that we expected anything good, but NOT THIS BAD,
and also although I love Big Dawg, his stand with WTO
made my skin crawl.

We never know if we're getting a pig in the poke, but
this doctor is saying everything that should be said and
thought by every American methinks.

I sure like what he says in your "dump".

[ozone_man]

75. Sometimes you've got to go with your gut feelings.

So far, Dean gives me all the right feelings. Sure, I could go for more of a radical, but Dean is electable and can represent a broad cross-section of American voters. I voted for Nader in the last election. This time, it's Dean for me.

[IndianaGreen]

56. Hey, I am glad to see us on the same side again!

I support Dean!

[Pallas180]

58. INDIANA - that's doubtful. Ways and means. There are ways and

means of accomplishing goals. How you get there counts.

[johnkerryArizona04]

43. IMHO: you have no credability

when you act as if a POLICY group---> ie the DLC is in charge of what the NDN ---> New Democrat Network P.A.C does ?

The DLC is a council of elected officials...thats it.

the NDN is the activist part.

[CWebster]

90. I'll give you this much

You sure as hell aren't doing John Kerry any favors.

[goobergunch]

46. LBN rules

:shrug:

[Cha]

73. I agree, the dlc totally sucks and from what I've seen of their

representatives...I can see why!

[schultzee]

31. Damn From and his bu$h loving ways!

Dean raised all that money from ordinary people.....From can't stand the idea of grass roots. Damn From.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dajabr]

49. McCain raised much of that after he won NH Primary...

What Dean has done, based on the context of time and place, is unprecendented.

[johnkerryAriz04]

89. no i mean the last months silly

He had $24,000 in may 2003 and everyone was saying that he was going to retire.

Thus...Jeff Flake says he might run and the "Club for Growth" says they will back him.

McCain in one month raised 1.9 million off the internet in less than 30 days and spent almost nothing.

People in America, Dem, Rep and Independent LOVE the man, and so do i.

He has a higher approval ratings amongst democrats than all state-wide Democrats except for our Governor, Napolitano.

Newest poll showed McCain with a 64% approval rating and a 70% positive feeling on a scale of 1-100

[Forkboy]

82. Well,now we know right where you stand

McCain is a real something though,I'll give you that.

[Cocoa]

33. how did Bush pass the "security threshold?"

Was it his experience as the Gov. of Texas, or was it the fact that he couldn't name any world leaders, or was it his "no nation building" policy, or was it his "distinguished" military career?

[Eloriel]

48. Well put! n/t

.

[tjdee]

50. Al From LOVES Howard Dean!

Al From just keeps giving Dean more and more press.

Either he adores Dean secretly and is trying to bolster him, or he is monumentally stupid.

[w4rma]

107. tjdee, you do have a point and Dean has a fundraiser going on his site

Goal is $250K by Monday at midnight, ~$175K so far (Saturday, 10pm) with 3,245 contributors:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/dtvbc

It does seem like every time From bashes Dean, Dean goes to the bank :P

[patrice]

51. Make it Dean & Wesley Clark

and Dean's "soft on security" situation would be solved by a security figure with International status, looks pretty good to peaceniks too doesn't it?

Or am I wrong about this?

[Pallas180]

53. Why do you say Dean is soft on security? I dont see that. And you

have to think that Dean has to carry the South and needs
someone with insider experience. That could be Graham
or Edwards. Or as you say Clark, but democrats may be
afraid of anything connected to war at this point.

Hard to say. Clark is interesting. but all the things
going for him, go against him at this point in time.

Maybe Clark for Secretary of Defense? better fit with his
experience at Nato and so on. And the Pentagon would
certainly like him. An insider. (they hate Rumsfeld)

[Umbram]

55. Better than Bush (clealy), but...

Dean isn't a candidate for peaceniks, per se.

He's opposed to decreasing the size of the military, for example.

Dean is/was against the war in Iraq, but he's said himself that he's not necessarily a "peace candidate".

I'm not saying Dean's a bad choice, but I think, for better or worse, his actual stance on things is being missed.

[Pallas180]

59. This country won't elect a peacenik. So you need not worry.

.

[Khephra]

60. If you think that most of us Dean supporters are "peaceniks"

then maybe you should read his actual postions. He's not a peacenik and most of the Dean supporters know that.

Means do not justify the ends.

[Pallas180]

62. KEPHRA - re-read the three post prior to this. You miss my sarcasm.

:hi:

:dem:

:evilgrin:

[Eloriel]

126. The only people missing his actual stance are

* a lotta pundits
* his detractors and bashers, esp. here at DU

IOW, we Dean supporters know pretty much exactly where he stands on stuff. We KNOW he's not a true liberal (or at least that Kucinich is more so); we KNOW he's not "a peacenik;" etc. In fact, there are no doubt various of his policies that we Dean supporters aren't all that comfortable with. We recognize no candidate is perfect, and likely no candidate will reflect our views 100%.

What we see is a candidate whose policies are good to great (if not perfect), and who has guts, a spine, and most of all a mouth willing to get in gear telling it like it is. We also see a positive vision for America, and a message of hope and -- wonder of wonders -- empowerment: YOU HAVE THE POWER!!

But thanks for your efforts to educate us Dean supporters anyway.

And welcome to DU.

Eloriel

[ozone_man]

67. Centrist Democrat is Dean, DLC are the right wing Democrats (Lieberman).

Dean is a centrist, fiscal conservative and social liberal. He is not afraid to take on Bush and has no skeletons in his closet, like the sleeze bag Democrats that voted for the Iraq war. DLC is running scared.

[Cha]

80. Yeah and they're doing in a Sleazy way, too.

No Guts -No Class -No Action ~ dlc stands for.. democrats/ lose/ constantly.


:kick:

[deutsey]

88. Centrist Democrats can reserve themselves a seat

on the Oblivion Express if they keep trying the same ol' same ol'.

[Christian73]

102. The DLC is a losing minority

on the left. We want someone who will guarantee us the same rights and civil liberties that we have fought for for the past 40-50 years and not lead us into a cynical war for oil and geographic hegemony in the ME.

The DLC is Bush-lite and running scared from opposing anything that Bushco supports. For some reason they believe Rove's propoganda that the country is teeming with right wing Christian fundies.

Sick sorry bastards.

[libtexan]

106. Dean is the guy

we'd love to see win, but he won't. Too liberal for the majority. I think he's a great guy. But we have to win.

[Umbram]

109. Someone explain this to me.

How is Dean "too liberal for the majority"?

Are we talking about Dean, or the ficticious representation of Dean that people seem to have?

Dean believes gun control is the responsibility of the states, and has any number of view points that are likely to attract a wider voter base than a "traditional" democrat is likely to entertain a chance at.

I'm starting to grow concerned that the Repukes are right that Dems define themselves too much in negative terms. It would seem that simply apposing a war now makes one a Super-Ultra-Liberal.

Let's define the candidates political leanings not in terms of HOW ANGRY they are, but what plans they are going to put in place to do something about it.

[sujan]

108. this is good news

Perhaps they'll leave the party and join the GOP.

[Capn Sunshine]

110. I don't know who this goof is

But he SURE AS HELL ISN'T DLC.
What he is/was was a caricature of what a troublemaker imagined DLC folk to be like. Disrupting for the sake of causing trouble.

I have told many of you here before and reiterate this now:
DEAN HAS LOTS OF SUPPORT AT THE DLC.

The clear From/Reed politicking for Lieberman is a dead end, AND THAT'S not THE POINT OF THE DLC. It's supposed to be above the right-left debate. Long after From is at the curb with the other beltway trash the philosophy of the DLC will live on.

Please don't confuse the DNC with the DLC. We just don't have the influence there you credit us with, or else Gephardt would not be so strong there.

Look, bottom line, a lot of us are financial professionals and the DLC is primarily orientated towards the political application of financial/economic power in a RESPONSIBLE way.

If you think we agree with W's cronies who only profit off an economic environment featuring massive unemployment and a hot war somewhere all the time, you're missing the point. We are a little more progressive than that. A lot of us are WAY more progressive than that.

To continue this sniping against the DLC is sapping the creative energy we should reserve for the real fight. We are not the enemy, or we'd be calling ourselves the Republican Leadership Council. And there's a whole world of difference between us and them my friends.

As I said to a union guy today, don't forget; THEY want to grind you all under their heels and leave us with two classes : slave and master.

THIS is what the real issue is.

[ibegurpard]

123. I would suggest

That you and other DLC members who feel the same way you do try to do something to shut the traps of assholes like From. They aren't doing your organization any favors.

[burr]

111. It is logical, just as destroying liberity is essential to defend liberty.

To be electable one must oppose democracy.

To defeat the sorry Commander and Chief, one must never stray from strongly supporting him.

One must aways remember that liberalism, big government, and nationalized healthcare are now our party's kiss of death. Let us embrace the new economic ideas of Lieberman, Baucas, and Miller while moving away from the failed welfare statism of Dascle, Dean, and Kucinich.

Hence let the yellow line guide us down the center of the road, and do please be careful of any traffic. Contact with the public and with a populist agenda can be destructive to our ELECTABILITY.

WHERE WOULD WE BE GOING WITHOUT FROM?

[JohnKleeb]

113. major pukes

Just one little issue and to them Dean cant be elected. Cynical assholes. I am not even for Dean but i would say hes electable I really would. I say Kerry has a good chance too. If we can make the name Bush like the pukes did with Carter in 80 hello the promise land.

[JohnKleeb]

116. I am for Kucinich as you all know

BTW I think all you Dean supporters or most of ya would agree with this. Fuck the DLC. Remember liberalism is not why we have lost in the past its the bloody media and misconceptions if we can get people to hear our messages and fight the media's sometimes if not mostly republican bias. On edit I disagree with the tombstoned person Dean supporters mostly are great people. Although Dean is not my pick and the one I would support he's pretty likable I think and I can understand why most of you like him even though I think most of you should be on my boat for Kucinich its all good.

[jamesinca]

118. This makes me like Dean even more

Dean/ Clark. That would take care of the concern for national security and military matters. TOUCHDOWN Democrats. I think they protest so much because they are afraid he will go against the establishment and not endorse them. Dean has raised some money, trails most in the polls and yet he is the one that they are watching, why? I support Dean, but he is still not really know in most parts of the country. Most people only kinda know of him or get him confused with the Sen. from NC or something like that. So why are they worried?

[Eloriel]

127. Trails most in the polls?

Only the national polls where all that's being measured at this point is name recognition (hence the Lieberman high ratings, along with Hillary Clinton).

You take a look at Iowa, New Hampshire and even California, and Dean is very well placed if not ahead. Ahead in CA; neck-and-neck with Kerry in NH; ahead of Kerry but somewhat behind Gephardt in Iowa (depending on what poll you're looking at). THESE are the people who are paying attention to politics. Nationally, people haven't a clue yet and will simply pick the name(s) they recognize.

Eloriel

[young_at_heart]

129. He was against the Iraq invasion

That's good enough for me!