Panel Cites White House, Not Soldiers, for Abuse

[kpete]

Source: New York Times

Panel Cites White House, Not Soldiers, for Abuse

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: December 11, 2008

Filed at 12:03 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A new Senate report says the physical and mental abuse of detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay Naval Base was the direct result of Bush administration policies and should not be blamed on guards and interrogators.

The report from the Senate Armed Services Committee is the result of a two-year investigation. It directly links President Bush's policies after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, legal memos on torture and interrogation rule changes with the abuse that was photographed at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq four years ago.

The report says administration officials publicly blamed the abuses on low-level soldiers but called that ''both unconscionable and false.''

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2008/12/11/washington/AP-Detainee-Abuse.html?_r=1

[amdezurik]

1. yes the ulitmate blame rests there

but no "Just following orders" excuse should be tolerated either.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. The primary strategy of any military when caught in an atrocity

is to push the blame as far down the chain of command as possible. I saw it happen more than once in Vietnam--and I'm not talking about My Lai. Officers always had a way of wiggling out of responsibility for the orders they gave, and enlisted personnel always had a way of taking the full brunt of the blame for obeying those orders. Frankly, I would gladly let the followers off the hook if they tell the truth about the orders they got and who gave them, all the way up the chain of command to the ultimate source. The problem, of course, is that the orders start out general and end up in specific actions that are hard to pin to the original orders.

"Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?"

[proud progressive]

4. YOU ARE 100% RIGHT ABOUT VIETNAM. SO WHAT DID WE DO ABOUT IT? NOTHING!!!

remember, we are the ones who let our pols get away with not prosecuting the wrongdoers. perfect example - what does obama want to do to address the lawbreakers in the bush admin? CREATE A COMMISSION! WTF, are you bullshitting me? create a commission - look, obama, if you must lie to me, please do not insult my limited intelligence.
waxman/feingold - '16

[90-percent]

3. The entire torture program

The entire torture program was conceived and executed by that master military conspiracist Lyndie England. How she managed to implement the torture program almost single handedly is the stuff of legend.

Thankfully, she's served her time so all of America can put this whole episode behind us now. Nothing more to see here. Move along.

-90% Jimmy

[TheEuclideanOne]

11. Yeah, the red flag should have been when

she brought all of those whips and chains with her overseas. Oddly enough, when they passed those torture guidelines after this story broke, and took out all of these abuse tactics, the Bush administration made sure they were put back in.

[acmavm]

5. And the bush** admin will pay how for their crimes?????

[pink-o]

6. I know. I'm soooo sick of no accountabiltity!

I'm so sick of the media still validating this clown and his sadistic minions like he was ever a real president. I'm sick of the Dems who don't want to "put the nation through any more trauma" and are willing to sweep all these crimes under the rug so we can get on with things. Yes, I'm thrilled we're gonna have an adult, responsible prez in a month, but geez, if these f**kers had done their jobs maybe we wouldn't be in the shitter as deep as we are right now.

During Watergate (which now looks like a summer picnic) even Congressional Republicans did the right thing by holding Nixon's feet to the fire. Now, you can't even get the opposition party to step up to the plate!

[acmavm]

7. The 'opposition party' is dirty dirty dirty from top to bottom. But really,

all the attempts by bush** to whitewash his 'legacy' are being aired gladly by a media who, if they had an honest bone, wouldn't even be talking to a serial liar, giving him credence.

[wryter2000]

22. The corporate media are only doing their jobs (sarcasm)

By investigating Obama's associations.

[MilesColtrane]

8. That really took two years to find out?

Really?

If you boys had been a little quicker, Madame Speaker might have felt she had the enough CYA to impeach the odious one.

[Aristus]

9. When I was in the Army, our company CO screwed up a live-fire exercise that ended up

injuring some Range Control personnel. He received a royal chewing out from the Battalion CO, who then proceeded to cover it up to protect the captain's career. Our captain then berated the company for firing, even though he gave the command to fire. I was furious; what the hell is a company Safety Officer FOR, anyway? But as they say in the military, shit rolls downhill...

[valerief]

17. Shit rolls downhill everywhere. nt

[struggle4progress]

10. Bipartisan Report: Rumsfeld Responsible for Detainee Abuse (WaPo)

Senate Committee Finds Officials Made Decisions That Led to Offenses Against Prisoners

By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 11, 2008; 12:39 PM

A bipartisan Senate report released today says that former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and other top Bush administration officials are directly responsible for abuses of detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and charges that decisions by those officials led to serious offenses against prisoners in Iraq and elsewhere.

The Senate Armed Services Committee report accuses Rumsfeld and his deputies of being the principal architects of the plan to use harsh interrogation techniques on captured fighters and terrorism suspects, rejecting the Bush administration's contention that the policies originated lower down the command chain ...

The report, released by Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and based on a nearly two-year investigation, said that both the policies and resulting controversies tarnished the reputation of the United States and undermined national security. "Those efforts damaged our ability to collect accurate intelligence that could save lives, strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority," it said.

The panel's investigation focused on the Defense Department's use of controversial interrogation practices, including forced nudity, painful stress positions, sleep deprivation, extreme temperatures and use of dogs. The practices, some of which had already been adopted by the CIA at its secret prisons, were adapted for interrogations at Guantanamo Bay and later migrated to U.S. detention camps in Afghanistan and Iraq, including the infamous Abu Ghraib prison ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/12/11/ST2008121101970.html

[Soylent Brice]

12. i'm torn on this one

of course *'s policies are to blame, but not solely.

how in the hell, in good conscience, can we not hold the interrogators responsible also.

of course we can blame the interrogators!!

what is this crap? were they just being good germans?

stooooopid.

nice to see shrub's failed policies to be recognized and all, but damn.

[Enrique]

15. some of the interrogators are in jail

the report doesn't say we can't hold the interrogators responsible also.

[Soylent Brice]

20. aside from those ivolved in Abu Ghraib,

who else has been? I'm just saying that I'm sure Grey Lady of Bagram would like to weigh in on this.

it's nice that the panel recognized where the problem began, but people make personal choices too.

these "interrogators" were acting in lockstep with the furher's policies. i'd like to see a panel invesitgate to see how many conscientious objections there were made by interrogators. with all the reports of the widespread torture finally surfacing en masse, it's becoming more apparent that there were a lot of people guilty of lacking a conscience.

[proud progressive]

21. maybe you never worked for a living, but when your boss tells you do sometjhing...

you do it because, one, you have been assured it is for better good and, two, if you do not, you will be labeled a troublemaker, fired and career destroyed. this is not about the 'workers' it is entirely about the 'bosses'

[whopis01]

31. When your boss tells you to do something illegal, and you do it

then you are committing a crime.

It is about both the 'workers' and the 'bosses'.

And the military recognizes this. That is why the "I was only following orders" defense does not work well for violations of Article 93 of the UCMJ.

[Soylent Brice]

36. thank you!

[Soylent Brice]

35. really? actually that's the single stupidest fucking thing i've ever heard here at DU.

congratulations on taking the cake.

i'd rather be executed than torture someone. sorry.

[proud progressive]

79. wow! do we have a thin skin AND a small mind?

you people always talk in your 'tinkerbell' terms. read the original post, moron!

[Soylent Brice]

81. ...

:boring:

[Shipwack]

37. Only -one- interogator is serving jail time...

While I have little sympathy for him (Chales Graner), I agree with his complaint that he is the only one being held accountable...

Sympathy for Charles Graner

No one from the Bush administration has been held accountable for torture. But the guard from Abu Ghraib prison is still behind bars, and his family wants to know why.

By Mark Benjamin

Dec. 1, 2008 | PITTSBURGH, Pa. -- The detainee held on charges related to the so-called war on terror is clad in an orange jumpsuit. His wrists are shackled to a leather belt cinched tight around his waist. A short chain connects his ankles, so he can only shuffle down the barren hallways of the prison, escorted by a guard at each arm.

He has spent more than 29 months in solitary confinement over the past four years, allowed out of his narrow cell during some of that period only to stretch his legs, alone, for one hour a day. In solitary, he has almost no contact with other human beings. He is allowed no radio, no TV and, in a disorienting twist, no watch or calendar to mark the brutal grind of passing time.
...
"Karma really is a son of a gun!" says Charles Graner, infamous as the torturer of Abu Ghraib, in one of several letters he has written me from Fort Leavenworth, Kan., where he has been incarcerated since his conviction in January 2005 on charges related to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners at the U.S. prison in Abu Ghraib, Iraq. "Add a couple of years, change the color of my uniform and I find myself in the same position."
...
After staring at the image of a naked, humiliated detainee with a bag over his head, it is easy to argue that Graner deserves whatever he gets. But Graner is now the only person involved in the Abu Ghraib scandal who is still behind bars. Of the eight other enlisted military personnel whom the Army tried and convicted in courts-martial in connection with the abuses, none is now in prison. (The sole officer who was tried was acquitted.) Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick, the other alleged ringleader, got eight years, but his sentence was commuted and he is out of jail. Pfc. Lynndie England is not in jail. Everyone but Graner is free.

Full article at http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/12/01/graner/index.html

[Soylent Brice]

38. thanks Shipwack! i wasn't aware of that

he's right, Karma is a bitch. it's unfortunate to be the scapegoat.

[thesquanderer]

13. And this is news?

Yeah, that's a shocker.

Support the troops indeed. More like scapegoat the troops. Pathetic.

[struggle4progress]

14. Excerpts: SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE INQUIRY INTO THE TREATMENT OF DETAINEES IN U.S. CUSTODY

using WaPo's pdf link: http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/pdf/12112008_detaineeabuse.pdf

On February 7, 2002, President Bush signed a memorandum stating that the Third Geneva Convention did not apply to the conflict with al Qaeda and concluding that Taliban detainees were not entitled to prisoner of war status or the legal protections afforded by the Third Geneva Convention. The President’s order closed off application of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions ...

In December 2001, more than a month before the President signed his memorandum, the Department of Defense (DoD) General Counsel’s Office had already solicited information on detainee “exploitation” from the Joint Personnel Recovery Agency (JPRA), an agency whose expertise was in training American personnel to withstand interrogation techniques considered illegal under the Geneva Conventions ...

Typically, those who play the part of interrogators in SERE school neither are trained interrogators nor are they qualified to be ... Their job is to train our personnel to resist providing reliable information to our enemies ... Given JPRA’s role and expertise, the request from the DoD General Counsel’s office was unusual

Beginning in the spring of 2002 and extending for the next two years, JPRA supported U.S. government efforts to interrogate detainees ...

In late July, JPRA provided the General Counsel’s office with several documents, including excerpts from SERE instructor lesson plans, a list of physical and psychological pressures used in SERE resistance training, and a memo from a SERE psychologist assessing the long-term psychological effects of SERE resistance training on students and the effects of waterboarding. The list of SERE techniques included such methods as sensory deprivation, sleep disruption, stress positions, waterboarding, and slapping ...

... Members of the President’s Cabinet and other senior officials attended meetings in the White House where specific interrogation techniques were discussed ...

On August 1, 2002, just a week after JPRA provided the DoD General Counsel’s office the list of SERE techniques and the memo on the psychological effects of SERE training, the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) issued two legal opinions ... Both memos were signed by then-Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel Jay Bybee ...

Jack Goldsmith, the former Assistant Attorney General of the OLC who succeeded Mr. Bybee in that job, described the memo’s conclusions:

Violent acts aren’t necessarily torture; if you do torture, you probably have a defense; and even if you don’t have a defense, the torture law doesn’t apply if you act under the color of presidential authority.

The other OLC opinion issued on August 1, 2002 is known commonly as the Second Bybee memo. ... While the full list of techniques remains classified, a publicly released CIA document indicates that waterboarding was among those analyzed and approved ...

... Jay Bybee ... said that he saw an assessment of the psychological effects of military resistance training in July 2002 in meetings in his office with John Yoo... Judge Bybee also recalled discussing detainee interrogations in a meeting with Attorney General John Ashcroft and John Yoo in late July 2002 ...

... On October 2, 2002, Jonathan Fredman, who was chief counsel to the CIA’s CounterTerrorist Center, attended a meeting of GTMO staff. Minutes of that meeting indicate that it was dominated by a discussion of aggressive interrogation techniques including sleep deprivation, death threats, and waterboarding, which was discussed in relation to its use in SERE training ...

On October 11, 2002, Major General Michael Dunlavey, the Commander of JTF-170 at Guantanamo Bay, sent a memo to General James Hill, the Commander of U.S. Southern Command (SOUTHCOM) requesting authority to use aggressive interrogation techniques ...

In early November 2002, in a series of memos responding to the Joint Staff’s call for comments on GTMO’s request, the military services identified serious legal concerns about the techniques ...

The Air Force cited “serious concerns regarding the legality of many of the proposed techniques” ...

CITF’s Chief Legal Advisor wrote that certain techniques in GTMO’s October 11, 2002 request “may subject service members to punitive articles of the <Uniform Code of Military Justice>” ...

The Chief of the Army’s International and Operational Law Division wrote that techniques like stress positions, deprivation of light and auditory stimuli, and use of phobias to induce stress “crosses the line of ‘humane’ treatment,” would “likely be considered maltreatment” under the UCMJ, and “may violate the torture statute” ...

... Notwithstanding the serious legal concerns raised by the military services, Mr. Haynes sent a one page memo to the Secretary, recommending that he approve all but three of the eighteen techniques in the GTMO request ...

Mr. Haynes’s memo indicated that he had discussed the issue with Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Doug Feith, and General Myers and that he believed they concurred in his recommendation ...

On December 2, 2002, Secretary Rumsfeld signed Mr. Haynes’s recommendation ...

On December 30, 2002, two instructors from the Navy SERE school arrived at GTMO. The next day, in a session with approximately 24 interrogation personnel, the two SERE instructors demonstrated how to administer stress positions, and various slapping techniques ...

Exemplifying the disturbing nature and substance of the training, the SERE instructors explained “Biderman’s Principles” – which were based on coercive methods used by the Chinese Communist dictatorship to elicit false confessions from U.S. POWs during the Korean War – and left with GTMO personnel a chart of those coercive techniques ...

At about the same time, a dispute over the use of aggressive techniques was raging at GTMO over the interrogation of Mohammed al-Khatani, a high value detainee. Personnel from CITF and the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) had registered strong opposition, to interrogation techniques proposed for use on Khatani and made those concerns known to the DoD General Counsel’s office. Despite those objections, an interrogation plan that included aggressive techniques was approved ...

NSC Legal Advisor John Bellinger said that, on several occasions, Deputy Assistant Attorney General Bruce Swartz raised concerns with him about allegations of detainee abuse at GTMO ...

Between mid-December 2002 and mid-January 2003, Navy General Counsel Alberto Mora spoke with the DoD General Counsel three times to express his concerns about interrogation techniques at GTMO, at one point telling Mr. Haynes that he thought techniques that had been authorized by the Secretary of Defense “could rise to the level of torture.” On January 15, 2003, having received no word that the Secretary’s authority would be withdrawn, Mr. Mora went so far as to deliver a draft memo to Mr. Haynes’s office memorializing his legal concerns about the techniques. In a subsequent phone call, Mr. Mora told Mr. Haynes he would sign his memo later that day unless he heard definitively that the use of the techniques was suspended. In a meeting that same day, Mr. Haynes told Mr. Mora that the Secretary would rescind the techniques. Secretary Rumsfeld signed a memo rescinding authority for the techniques on January 15, 2003 ...

On January 15, 2003, the same day he rescinded authority for GTMO to use aggressive techniques, Secretary Rumsfeld directed the establishment of a “Working Group” to review interrogation techniques. For the next few months senior military and civilian lawyers tried, without success, to have their concerns about the legality of aggressive techniques reflected in the Working Group’s report. Their arguments were rejected in favor of a legal opinion from the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel’s (OLC) John Yoo. Mr. Yoo’s opinion, the final version of which was dated March 14, 2003, had been requested by Mr. Haynes at the initiation of the Working Group process, and repeated much of what the first Bybee memo had said six months earlier ...

On January 24, 2003, nine days after Secretary Rumsfeld rescinded authority for the techniques at GTMO, the Staff Judge Advocate for Combined Joint Task Force 180 (CJTF-180), U.S. Central Command’s (CENTCOM) conventional forces in Afghanistan, produced an “Interrogation techniques” memo ...

From Afghanistan, the techniques made their way to Iraq ...

Interrogation techniques used by the Special Mission Unit Task Force eventually made their way into Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) issued for all U.S. forces in Iraq ...

... In mid-August 2003, an email from staff at Combined Joint Task Force 7 (CJTF-7) headquarters in Iraq requested that subordinate units provide input for a “wish list” of interrogation techniques, stated that “the gloves are coming off,” and said “we want these detainees broken” ...

In his report of his investigation into Abu Ghraib, Major General George Fay said that interrogation techniques developed for GTMO became “confused” and were implemented at Abu Ghraib ... Major General Fay said that the policy approved by the Secretary of Defense on December 2, 2002 contributed to the use of aggressive interrogation techniques at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 ...

As the events at Abu Ghraib were unfolding, Jack Goldsmith, the new Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel was presented with a “short stack” of OLC opinions that were described to him as problematic ... After reviewing the memos, Mr. Goldsmith decided to rescind both the so-called first Bybee memo and Mr. Yoo’s memo ... The change in OLC guidance, however, did not keep JPRA from making plans to continue their support to interrogation operations. In fact, it is not clear that the agency was even aware of the change ...

Interrogation policies endorsed by senior military and civilian officials authorizing the use of harsh interrogation techniques were a major cause of the abuse of detainees in U.S. custody ...

[russspeakeasy]

16. Gee! Thanks to the panel for the breaking news....

[HopeHoops]

18. There's still time to impeach him!

[AtomTan]

19. There's always time to try him and have him hanged.

[Independent_Liberal]

23. Yes Hope...

There's still time. Better yet, just make * and Cheney both resign in disgrace and allow Pelosi to take over and oversee the transition until 1/20/2009.

[Uncle Joe]

24. I think promoting torture would be an impeachable offense.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[LynnTheDem]

25. GEORGE W. bUSH official policy: TORTURE.

Everything George W. bUsh accused Saddam Hussein of doing, George W. bUsh did and does.

[Javaman]

26. Okay, that's fine and dandy, but the real question is, is moron* going to jail for this?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

Nothing to see here citizen, move along or be tasered.

[debbierlus]

27. So, when do they release the soldiers & put Bush co. behind bars where they belong...

Yeah. We know.

What actions are to be taken?

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

28. thanks kpete

:kick:

[Solly Mack]

29. yeah...and?

Is that - that being stating the obvious (Bush policy) - supposed to satisfy justice? accountability?
Job all done, I suppose? Duty fulfilled? Obligation met? Image restored?

That said..

Those who followed orders to torture/abuse are also guilty

[DonEBrook]

30. Sure. They just followed orders.

How convenient.

[sabra]

32. Senate probe blames top Bush officials for detainee abuses

Source: McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — The Senate Armed Services Committee Thursday singled out former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, former Joint Chiefs Chairman Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, and other top aides for approving inhumane interrogation techniques that were used on detainees at Guantanamo, sites in Afghanistan and at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

U.S. abuses against detainees led to attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq, according to testimony by the former general counsel of the Navy, Alberto Mora. "There are serving U.S. flag-rank officers who maintain that the first and second identifiable causes of U.S. combat deaths in Iraq -- as judged by their effectiveness in recruiting insurgent fighters into combat -- are, respectively, the symbols of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo," Mora testified.

The long awaited report said the techniques used were "based, in part, on Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to elicit false confessions" from captured American prisoners and adapted for use against U.S. detainees.

Instructors from the Pentagon agency that trains soldiers in resisting such treatment were sent to Guantanamo, Afghanistan and Iraq to assist in adopting of the methods, it said.

The abusive techniques — water boarding, nudity, stress positions, exploiting phobias, and treating detainees "like animals" — were "at odds with the commitment to humane treatment of detainees in U.S. custody" and inconsistent with the goal of collecting accurate information, the report concluded.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/112/story/57631.html

[ixion]

33. is it war crimes yet?

I mean, it sure sounds like it to me.

[mikelgb]

34. forward to house judiciary

[choie]

39. Shouldn't this story be on the front page, NY Times???

[Duppers]

43. Yes, it should've been Front Page

thanks, choie.

As Bill Moyers often points out, our press had failed the American people. And when the press fails, our democracy fails.


:grr:

[defendandprotect]

40. Rumsfeld Responsible for Torture, Report Says

And this is overwhelming protection for Obama and Democrats to ensure these NAZI

tactics are banned --

The Senate Armed Services Committee report accuses Rumsfeld and his deputies of being the principal architects of the plan to use harsh interrogation techniques on captured fighters and terrorism suspects, rejecting the Bush administration's contention that the policies originated lower down the command chain.

"The abuse of detainees in U.S. custody cannot simply be attributed to the actions of 'a few bad apples' acting on their own," the panel concludes. "The fact is that senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality, and authorized their use against detainees."

The report, released by Sens. Carl Levin, D-Mich., and John McCain, R-Ariz., and based on a nearly two-year investigation, said that both the policies and resulting controversies tarnished the reputation of the United States and undermined national security. "Those efforts damaged our ability to collect accurate intelligence that could save lives, strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority," it said.

[defendandprotect]

41. K&R --

[Duppers]

42. Was this on any of the big 3's nightly 'news' cast?

NO!

These asshole scumbuckets should have been impeachment and imprisoned long ago!


K & R

[democrank]

44. George W. Bush. Worst president ever.

He should have been impeached.

[Senator]

45. Obama's Response: Sorry, Not "Grave" Enough To Impeach/Object

That's all he has left, now that this report refutes http://www.talkingimpeachment.com/blog/Hall-of-Shame-Inductee----Barak-Obama.html">his other corrupt rationalization -- that it was all somehow accidental.

Without Impeachment -- before Jan 20 -- his presidency has very little chance of being unifying or inspiring. Being a War Criminal Nation tends to eat into the fabric of society -- just as the ignored election thefts have done.

He can't do much for our prestige in the world either. The rest of the world does not live under the US (beltway/euphemedia-spun) delusion that gov't officials have the option to stand idly by when it comes to torture and war crimes. They remember what Nuremberg was about. They will remain, at best, tepid parners in security matters and economic recovery (no one trades with war criminals if they can help it).

And all the lefty legalists, publicly pipe-dreaming about "future prosecutions," are just engaged in their own avoidance dance -- pretending that at unimpeached official can be held accountable after their acts have been tacitly "approved" by Congress. It gets harder, not easier over time.

A single article of impeachment for torture -- even if it failed in the House -- would at least be a line in the sand. Something to signal to the world and to our children that we are not the monsters we now seem. But I don't think it would fail. I don't think so many in Congress or the Senate would publicly declare themselves war criminals and oppose the treaty obligations that our greater generations fought and died to forge.

With the new poll showing only 18% are going to "miss" bushcheney, it's clear that Impeachment could still http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Senator/16">unify our once-great nation.

It remains our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

----

[Independent_Liberal]

80. You said it, Senator.

I'm doing all I can to hammer that point home.

[PATRICK]

46. It is disheartening

to look at the war crimes tribunals since WWII. The majority are small actors, not planners or deciders or architects. These are not exceptions to the Geneva Conventions but generally products of their government's overt policies. In all cases it helps if the nation involved is losing the war or the nation is too big to be criticized. Internal criticism allows actors to be punished although it falls far far short of ever holding the leadership to account locally or internationally.

Weary or ashamed by this long inadequacy new leadership will be very inclined to wish the whole responsibility to fade fade away but will have to end up with some incrimination of the hands on instruments of clear Bush policies.

[Richard D]

47. Rumsfeld Responsible for Torture, Report Says

Source: AP

WASHINGTON - A bipartisan Senate report released today says that former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other top Bush administration officials are directly responsible for abuses of detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and charges that decisions by those officials led to serious offenses against prisoners in Iraq and elsewhere.

The Senate Armed Services Committee report accuses Rumsfeld and his deputies of being the principal architects of the plan to use harsh interrogation techniques on captured fighters and terrorism suspects, rejecting the Bush administration's contention that the policies originated lower down the command chain.

"The abuse of detainees in U.S. custody cannot simply be attributed to the actions of 'a few bad apples' acting on their own," the panel concludes. "The fact is that senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality, and authorized their use against detainees."

The report, released by Sens. Carl Levin, D-Mich., and John McCain, R-Ariz., and based on a nearly two-year investigation, said that both the policies and resulting controversies tarnished the reputation of the United States and undermined national security. "Those efforts damaged our ability to collect accurate intelligence that could save lives, strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority," it said.

Read more: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/11-7

[Botany]

48. Send Rummy to Gitmo

crooks all of them

Rummy got mad when his Iraq plan went bad so he ordered torture
of Iraqis.

[WritersBlock]

49. "Strengthened the hand of our enemies" = treason. Rumsfeld is officially branded a traitor now.

Now what?

[Richard D]

51. Yup.

Treason.

[elleng]

50. EXCELLENT!

Really like Bob Graham!

[longship]

52. It can't just be Rummy

Once the authority has crossed over to the civilian side (i.e., Secy of Def) it has to implicate the Oval Office. The Secy of Defense takes his orders from the Commander-in-chief. If Rummy is implicated, W must also be implicated. The Secy of Def normally has no authority in these matters.

[acmavm]

57. It wasn't. Where ever Rummy had his bloody fingers so did Cheney.

[No Elephants]

75. Cheney? What about Dummya? The buck stops with Dummy, not Rummy or Dickie or Condi.

[acmavm]

77. I know who the 'buck' stops with. But Chimpy was just a stooge.

He didn't run shit.

[Ohio Joe]

62. Agreed

I think the only fair way to determine the exact level would be an investigation and trials.Anyone that authorized torture needs to stand trial and be punished accordingly.

[laststeamtrain]

53. K & R

Senate report ties Rumsfeld to Abu Ghraib abuse
By David Morgan David Morgan 1 hr 37 mins ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other senior U.S. officials share much of the blame for detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, according to portions of a report released on Thursday by the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The report's executive summary, made public by the committee's Democratic chairman Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan and its top Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, said Rumsfeld contributed to the abuse by authorizing aggressive interrogation techniques at Guantanamo Bay on December 2, 2002.

He rescinded the authorization six weeks later. But the report said word of his approval continued to spread within U.S. military circles and encouraged the use of harsh techniques as far away as Iraq and Afghanistan.

The report concluded that Rumsfeld's actions were "a direct cause of detainee abuse" at Guantanamo and "influenced and contributed to the use of abusive techniques ... in Afghanistan and Iraq."

"The abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 was not simply the result of a few soldiers acting on their own," the executive summary said...http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081211/pl_nm/us_usa_abuse

[damntexdem]

54. Now, what will they do about it?

Slap his hand and send him to his room?

[Lint Head]

55. I guess the cowards in Washington will bail him out.

:dem:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

56. The bane of my existence.

:mad:

[jtrockville]

58. Haul the whole cabal to the Hague!

[Gman]

59. The old McCain is back

The same McCain that Kerry considered for VP. He cosponsored this report.

[truth2power]

60. It was cheap thrills for Rummy. Aside from everything else, Rummy, Cheney

and the rest of those effing bastards were running their own porn enterprise.

Rumsfeld and the rest of that evil cabal should spend the rest of their worthless lives in solitary confinement. :mad: :mad:

[shadowknows69]

61. AND???? The U.S. Marshals are on the way to get him right?

[Piewhacket]

63. I'm shocked and dismayed...

this can't be right.
we were officially told it was the 'bad apples'.
officially, by Fox news even...
now it turns out it wasn't the 'bad apples' after all?

this is unbelievable... shocking...
you mean, Fox LIED?
and nobody knew?

I'm so, so disappointed.

(everybody here in DU who already knew these mother F%$##%ers
were war criminals please raise your hand. everybody, eh.
that's what I figured.)

[defendandprotect]

64. This report is groundwork for future international courts ...

Didn't ead whole report yet --

but wondering if the also cited or named LAWYERS who gave license to these

Nazi tactics --

And are they going to touch CIA -- our original American NAZIS ---???

[AllyCat]

65. God, arrest him already!!!! What on green earth are we waiting for??

I can't stand this. Just frogmarch his a$$ to court and put him away forever. FOREVER.

[Subdivisions]

66. He'll be pardoned. n/t

[shadowknows69]

74. Let him be pardoned, but let him be legally named as the monster he is first

The world at large knows how corrupt our system is and that most of our Lords and their Vassals don't ever really get punished gor their tyranny. Symbolicly however it could be very powerful.

[Phredicles]

67. Hey Ms. Pelosi - are you aware of any crimes committed by

the Insane Clown Posse now?

[Bette Noir]

68. So, when's the trial?

I wouldn't mind seeing Rummy frogmarched to jail.

[scytherius]

69. We need to turn these people over to the Iraqis or the Hague n/t

nt

[Hippo_Tron]

70. Tell me something I didn't know

It's not like the administration actively fought to defend "coercive interrogation techniques" or anything.

:eyes:

[iconicgnom]

71. But torture is against the law. Therefore Rumsfeld should immediately be indicted. QED

[lutherj]

72. I still hold out hope that one morning in April or May we'll all wake up to a flurry of news stories

citing unconfirmed reports that that a series of arrests have been made of 8 or 10 former high level officials, including Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Rice, Gonzales, etc, and that Bush has been detained trying to flee the country, and his passport has been revoked, and he's been placed under house arrest. And then President Obama will come onto national television and start detailing all the horrors and abuses that have come to light in all the secret detention camps around the world, and how we are a nation of laws, not of men, and how, once presented with the evidence, there was no alternative but to persue justice in this case, that anything else would be a mockery of everything we Americans stand for and hold dear. . . .

Okay, it's late. I was dreaming.

[truthisfreedom]

73. Kinda brings a little tear to your eye, huh?

Never thought I'd see it happen. Especially with McCain at the helm... what the fuck happened to him? Gained a conscience? Remembered what it was like to be tortured daily at some point during his grueling campaign?

[PassingFair]

76. Just seeing that man's name in print or hearing it...

brings up SUCH negative feelings in me.

:puke: :puke:

What a nightmare time for our country.

I won't even post a picture of that
evil bastard. He and Bolton and Bush personify
to me the horror of the past eight years.

[Joe Chi Minh]

78. A welcome change to see the butcher blamed and not the block.

[Overseas]

82. K&R -- glad to hear the blame going to the top. //nt