Students to be taught there's no God

[2QT2BSTR8]

Source: news.com.au

VICTORIAN state primary school students will soon be able to take religious education classes which teach there is no evidence God exists.
The Humanist Society of Victoria has developed a curriculum for primary pupils that the state government accreditation body says it intends to approve, The Sunday Age newspaper reported.

Accredited volunteers will be able to teach their philosophy in the class time allotted for religious instruction, the newspaper said.

As with lessons delivered by faith groups, parents will be able to request that their children do not participate.

"Atheistical parents will be pleased to hear that humanistic courses of ethics will soon be available in some state schools," Victorian Humanist Society president Stephen Stuart said.

The society does not consider itself to be a religious organisation and believes ethics have "no necessary connection with religion".

Humanists believe people are responsible for their own destiny and reject the notion of a supernatural force or God.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24797483-421,00.html

---

It is about time! Hurrah for them!!

[InternalDialogue]

1. I know it's not your headline, but there's a difference

between "there's no God" and "there's no evidence God exists."

That journalist should take more care with words.

[laconicsax]

2. Absolutely true.

[Hissyspit]

5. That's a terrible headline.

[lurky]

6. It's a Rupert Murdoch pub.

I'm sure the editors knew exactly what they were doing with that headline.

[AtheistCrusader]

9. Man, no kidding.

Just in the last few months I've been beset by people claiming 'Atheism is just another religion'. How the hell can a LACK of religion, or failure to believe be considered a belief system of its own?

Humanism is much more than a lack of belief in the supernatural, but I don't personally think it qualifies as a religion either.

Fuck, I fully expect this article to be thrown in my face at work tomorrow...

[pipoman]

23. Any position without

universally ascribed to hard evidence to support the position is a part of a belief system. Some atheists are so determined to spread their belief system to others or tear down, or belittle other people's beliefs, and network ideas supporting their positions that it becomes very religion like.

Now I believe that because of the vast differences between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom, humans were seeded on Earth by an alien world who are cultivating us for reintroduction and for breeding stock. This is why so many people's genitals are fondled by aliens.

[Fumesucker]

27. I have to shoo the Atheist Witnesses from my doorstep on a regular basis..

Oh wait, those aren't Atheist Witnesses, they are Jehovah's Witnesses.

Never mind.

/Emily Latella

[pipoman]

59. When is the last time you had to

shoo a Methodist or a Presbyterian or a Catholic off of your stoop? JW is somewhere around .7% of the US religious population. If all Christian religions 'witnessed' like the JW do, your doorbell would never stop ringing.

http://religions.pewforum.org/affiliations

[Zhade]

43. The evidence is all on the atheist side. Religion has none to corroborate its beliefs.

Not buying into the myths is NOT a religion.

[Boojatta]

56. "The evidence is all on the atheist side."

There are certainly some invalid arguments and pathetically weak evidence put forward in the hope of supporting the religious side. However, I hope that you don't consider that to be evidence on the atheist side.

[Zhade]

58. Of course I don't. Non-evidence for something isn't automatically evidence against it.

But since the burden of proof is on the one making the assertion (e.g., a believer claiming gods exist), all this means is that the believer has failed to make the case -- not that the atheist is wrong.

[Boojatta]

61. You asserted: "The evidence is all on the atheist side"

Can you support that assertion?

[pipoman]

62. It depends on how

adamantly atheist a person is. If they are obsessive atheists who feel the need to belittle other people because they don't agree, or feel the need to protest a Christmas tree in a towns square, well I disagree. That person has escalated atheism into their belief system and are no less annoying to most people than JWs ringing your bell at meal time. Why do you care what others choose to believe? I see all too often on DU vocal atheists belittling other peoples beliefs, like proclaiming their beliefs to be 'myths'. It is rude and uncalled for.

[FiveGoodMen]

46. As someone else here said...

Atheism is a religion in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

[InternalDialogue]

11. Yeah, I probably shouldn't call out the writer.

The story is worded appropriately; it's just the headline that's off...

[depakid]

41. The Age is a Fairfax paper- and its headline is a bit different:

Religion in schools to go God-free

http://www.theage.com.au/national/religion-in-schools-to-go-godfree-20081213-6xxs.html

[InternalDialogue]

65. That's a much more intriguing headline, and a better story by far.

[emilyg]

8. Amen.

[orleans]

16. journalists do not write the headline--editors do.

but i agree with the point you are making.

[InternalDialogue]

31. Yeah, I caught my slip and posted in a different place above.

Thanks, though!

:hi:

[mainegreen]

25. My first thought as well. But hey, it's the media.

Much more fun to play the 'those damned atheists' card again.

[Truth Teller]

64. Should we teach "there's no evidence Big Foot exists"

or "Big Foot doesn't exist". I say the second.

We should also teach "God does not exist." When there is no evidence to support a widely believed myth, children are best served being told the myth is untrue, not by telling them we don't really know.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

67. My first thought, too.

:thumbsup:

Typical fundy freakout tactics.

[agincourt]

3. Study televangelists and their political operatives,

their existance is the best proof of no God. I'm a Christian btw, but some of the preachers and their politicians are the best evidence of no supreme being.

[truthisfreedom]

4. Wow, finally, "Imagine" comes true. In a way.

People being given the chance to escape from a dangerous belief system. What a gas!

[WyoHiker]

7. God Bless 'Em!! n/t

[killbotfactory]

10. if there was evidence God existed, you wouldn't need faith

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid from making a fortune with his book Well That About Wraps It Up For God.

[Poll_Blind]

12. God has retained the everlasting services of the spirt of Johnny Cochrane while the jury is picked.

PB

[davidinalameda]

15. only if he pulled him from Hell

where he belongs for defending OJ

[Fedja]

20. The worst of criminals

Even the worst of criminals deserve to be represented fairly in court. It's the only thing keeping the judicial branch off your back.

[davidinalameda]

63. I know

and it's the hallmark of the American legal system but justice was denied in that case

OJ should be sitting in a cell in Pelican Bay or another California prison instead of doing time in Nevada

[shellgame26]

13. hopefully this will catch on

Religion prohibits societies from advancing

[Divine Discontent]

14. people with restrictive views prohibit societies from advancing

people twist and turn written word, and always have. I don't blame Jesus for that. People have free will, some just choose to use it to hate.

These designs on dozens of different shirts, button, stickers, mugs & more! http://www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable/1434671

[shellgame26]

57. I never mentioned Jesus

In fact Jesus has nothing at all to do with this. IMO Jesus was a leftist freedom fighter who was assassinated in his prime like so many others.
I agree with you about people twisting things for their own purposes but the fact still remains that for many people in many societies their Operating systems are restricted by the dictates of whatever religion they follow.

[orleans]

17. wow. i'm amazed--never thought i'd see the day

now...can we get some of that clear thinking over in this country?

[sasquatch]

18. I'm gonna love watching Bill-O's head explode over this

[gtar100]

19. God is going to be *so* mad!!

After all, He's a jealous God. And very wrathful. He's going to strike them all dead until everyone else see's just how much He loves them. I'm looking forward to an eternity of singing hymns to Him. Probably some bad-ass harp players in Heaven even now.

[CrispyQ]

50. I learned to sing harmony in church.

You could belt it out in church. If you hit the wrong note, big deal. It was the best thing I got out of church. ;)

[northofdenali]

21. Can Sarah see Victoria from her porch?

:rofl:

Sorry to be so Palinesque, but the woman has humiliated my state long enough!

Headline? Sucks.

Story? Great.

Results? Go, Northern Neighbors! (I :heart: BC and Yukon Territory!!)

[smitra]

30. It is Victoria, Australia...

See:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/263522

But... BC is great too! :)

[northofdenali]

40. Oops - but I still love Western Canada and its folks -

We have LOTS of Australian visitors throughout the year here and they are also a :yourock: blast to be around.

So, GO AUSTRALIA!!!!!!!!!

[lostnfound]

22. In two seconds flat, this will be converted into rightwing emails that US schools are now

mandated to teach that God does not exist in US classrooms, opening with "you've heard that the Supreme Court prevents schools from even mentioning the name of God in the classroom, well now..."

Anyone want to take a bet on that?

[harun]

32. They will associate this with the Left and seeing the comments so

far I see why.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

34. Well, this is a GOOD thing, so I'm happy to associate it with "the Left."

Acceptance of all beliefs. What could be more liberal?

[Festivito]

24. This is what should be done. Each taught. Parents can choose.

For that matter, the student can choose.

[timtom]

28. Thank you.

One of about 3 rational posts on this subject. The rest is all about advancing opinions.

[Zhade]

45. Based on the evidence, it'll be a short class.

Religion -- no corroborating evidence for gods whatsoever. Class dismissed!

You want to teach that in our schools? Awesome. Facts *should* be taught. But no, it should NOT be taught in schools that any gods exist, because 1) there's no evidence for them and 2) it violates the first amendment.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

26. Victoria is my favorite city in the world -- I wish I could live there

[smitra]

29. I think this Victoria is in Australia, not Canada

This link makes it clear (carries the same story):

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/263522

[Critters2]

33. Better yet, lets leave religious matters out of public schools. nt

[Mari333]

35. agreed! dont say anything to students either way

just leave this sort of discourse at home. schools dont need to have an opinion one way or the other.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. I agree, but this is Australia, where the school system is heavily influenced

by the British system.

Until about 40 years ago, they used to require French in high school. Then they looked at a map and decided that it would be better to emphasize Asian languages. By now, they have complete curricula in Japanese, Chinese, and Indonesian and partial curricula for Korean and Thai for K-12 students.

[depakid]

44. The Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, speaks fluent Mandarin

:-)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. What this article is ACTUALLY saying...

It appears that the curriculum in schools in Victoria, Australia (not Canada) has a slot for religious instruction, probably a legacy of the British system.

I don't know exactly how it works, whether it's kind of a comparative religions course or whether parents can choose to send their kids to the Anglican version, the Catholic version, the Muslim version, the Jewish version, etc.

Since I don't know what format religious instruction follows there, I'm inferring that one of the following two patterns will hold true:

1) There will be a unit on atheism in the comparative religions class.

or

2) Secular humanist philosophy will be another option added to the existing options for religious instruction.

So the religious people can stop panicking and the atheists can stop gloating. It looks as if this will be either an option or an additional unit.

[canetoad]

39. Here is a better article

http://www.theage.com.au/national/religion-in-schools-to-go-godfree-20081213-6xxs.html?page=-1

VICTORIAN state primary school students will soon have an alternative — religious education lessons taught by people who do not believe in God and say there is "no evidence of any supernatural power".

The Humanist Society of Victoria has developed a curriculum, which the State Government accreditation body says it intends to approve, to deliver 30-minute lessons each week of "humanist applied ethics" to primary pupils.

Accredited volunteers will be able to teach their philosophy in the class time designated for religious instruction. As with lessons delivered by faith groups, parents will be able to request that their children do not participate.

Victorian Humanist Society president Stephen Stuart said: "Atheistical parents will be pleased to hear that humanistic courses of ethics will soon be available in some state schools."

For the geographically challenged, Victoria is a state on the southern part of the Australian mainland covering an area approximate to Texas, Arizona and N.Mex. I live there.

Lydia, you are pretty much correct in your interpretation. When I went to high school in the 60s there was religious instruction, but even then (or maybe I just went to a progressive school) it was elective in all state schools. This is a sensible move.

[Zhade]

47. If #1, they'd better make sure they get it right -- atheism is NOT a religion.

And since when is celebrating schools teaching fact considered "gloating"?

[Nikki Stone1]

38. America already has a curriculum which proves God does not exist.

It's called "business school."

[Zhade]

42. "which teach there is no evidence God exists" Well, schools are supposed to teach facts, rights?

It's not like they're saying people can't believe in gods -- they're just pointing out the fact that there is no corroborative evidence to support those beliefs.

[tbyg52]

48. Well, OK, but

frankly, I'd rather religion or even lack thereof was not taught in schools as a faith.

On the other hand, I think everyone should be taught the history of as many religions (and atheism/freethought) as possible.

[Zhade]

51. I have no problem with teaching the history of religions.

I have a HUGE problem with teaching history as asserted by religions, however.

[MellowDem]

52. Ugh...

Let's keep all this stuff out of public schools. Humanists have their own form of morality and ethics that not everyone agrees with. It has no factual basis. Surprised to see so many on here pushing for another morality system based on opinion to brainwash young minds. It's also funny how the humanists in the article refer to "atheistical" parents, when humanism does not have anything exclusively to do with atheism.

[Zhade]

53. Teaching the fact that there is no evidence for any gods...

...is not teaching morality or ethics. It's simply teaching the facts.

[MellowDem]

55. Humanism goes beyond that...

which was my point. I'm not sure how they would do a whole class on it either. What would they do, present evidence that there isn't a God? And whether or not it is a "fact" that there is no evidence of God is disputed by a lot of people. Many think that it's impossible to know what would count as evidence, as God is beyond ever understanding, just like many aspects of the micro and macro physics world will never be understood.

[Zhade]

60. Sure it's disputed. There are people who believe the Holocaust never happened, too.

Evidence, by definition, is never beyond understanding. Otherwise, it's not evidence -- it's mere assertion.

[Sex Pistol]

54. "Humanists believe people are responsible for their own destiny..."

It's too bad that politicians don't feel the same way.

[ohio2007]

66. some brands of religion are more equal then others

Humanists believe people are responsible for their own destiny and reject the notion of a supernatural force or God.

I dare them to "spread the good news" to the dark Continent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPWI-p9Kl4g&eurl=