Russia to give Lebanon fighter planes

[DogPoundPup]

Source: UPI

MOSCOW, Dec. 17 (UPI) -- Russia will supply Lebanon with 10 used MiG-29 Fulcrum fighter planes free of charge, a Russian official said Wednesday.

The head of the federal military cooperation service, Mikhail Dmitriyev, said before being shipped the aircraft would be repaired and modernized, RIA Novosti reported.

The official also said Russia and Lebanon were holding talks on a deal for Lebanon to buy Russian military hardware.

"Joint work with our Lebanese colleagues is under way now, dealing with the purchase of Russian armored vehicles, artillery and other military hardware, as well as other types of armaments," Dmitriyev said.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/12/17/Russia_to_give_Lebanon_fighter_planes/UPI-16641229567494/

[daninthemoon]

1. what the hell for? to sell them the spare maintenance parts?

[rockymountaindem]

2. I don't get it either. It's going to be embarassing for Russia if those planes ever have to confront

the IAF. You'd probably have a hard time finding anybody to bet against a ten point spread in favor of Israel in the event of air-to-air combat.

[Lithos]

3. Heroin

The first one is free...

L-

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

5. Probably another way of trying to flex their military muscle.

[Indenturedebtor]

11. To play cold war with the US in the middle east I think

[Fedja]

14. Cutting costs

These planes costs to maintain, and they've had more than they've been using for a while now.

[cboy4]

4. Does Lebanon really want to go down this road?

I think not.

[Fedja]

13. Er?

I can't see a problem with a state getting 10 planes.

[cboy4]

15. You don't recognize a potential conflict with Hezbollah

receiving fighter jets?

You know what Israel will do, right?

They will destroy them will huge bombs dropped from IDF planes.

Probably almost immediately.

Just like Israel destroyed that Syrian/North Korean nuclear facility.

Israel, as you know, usually doesn't wait for the threat to arrive first.

Now then, do you still not see a problem with Lebanon getting war planes?

[Fedja]

17. Irrelevant

Hezbollah is merely a political party. Sure, they have their share of idiots, but then again, which political party doesn't? As far as political parties go, I have a really hard time finding the smallest difference between Hezbollah and the Republican party in terms of values. Irrespective of that, Lebanon is NOT governed by Hezbollah at this time, and their government is a pro-western one.

So my point stands, the planes are to be received by a sovereign state.

Secondly, did you just suggest that Israel would illegally attack another country, and spun that into the suggestion that Lebanon should bow to the bullying of its neighbor in advance? Israel is running dangerously low on international political capital, which is further diminished by the current troubled state of the US economy. There's 2 new blocks forming, one around the Russian sphere of influence, and another around China, somewhat backed up by South America.

I'm really not surprised anymore that some people equate Lebanon and Hezbollah or Palestine and Hamas, but it does still make me sad. Such monochromatic opinions are one of the main reasons for the flawed politics of violence in the region. Whereas I may understand an uneducated hungry person in that region being easily swayed into ignorance, there's no excuse for westerners with heaps of information at their fingertips to do the same.

[Parmenion]

18. Hezbollah is MORE than a political party

They are a state within a state with their own police, health-care, military, etc. There are areas of Lebanon that are beyond the actual control of Lebanese government institutions, and which are in reality controlled by Hezbollah institutions. People can be detained and arrested for merely walking down a public street in these areas. Do mere political parties arrest people just for walking down public areas. This September Hezbollah shot down a Lebanese Army helicopter, killing the pilot, and faced no repercussions. When a political organization acts as a governing organization within a failed state it becomes more than a participating political party within a democratic system.

Since November of 2006 Hezbollah and other opposition groups wanted veto rights in the Lebanese cabinet, which was not given to them because they lacked the votes. This May the cabinet voted to curtail Hezbollah communication systems and to fire a Hezbollah supported security officer at the Beirut International Airport. Hezbollah responded in a way no "more political party would"...they mobilized their allied militias (Amal and SSNP), invaded the areas of West Beirut which supports the pro-American Hariri, burned down media outlets, and shot up stores and restaurants owned by people who support their political opponents.

Since the events of May and the Doha Agreement, the Lebanese government is under technical control of March 14th (pro-Americans) but March 8th (Hezbollah and allies) have the real power.

[Fedja]

28. I know how things work down there.

Still, it's on par with the Republican govt. of the last 8 years. Where Hezbollah would shoot up a newspaper, the Republicans pushed financially to get relevant media policy people silenced/fired. Where Hezbollah has its own militia, the right wing aparatus has Blackwater etc.

Social evolution hasn't matured to the level of the US down there, they don't have armies of lobbyists affecting millions of lives and state-wide policies. But in the regional context, it's just a political party. Louder and more principled than most of the centrist ones, sure.

I didn't see the world in an outrage when the US built a dozen tanks, screaming "OH GOD THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO HAVE MORE WEAPONS". In retrospect I suppose it should have... Even today, the actions of the USA are seen as the actions of the country, not of the political party which currently holds a certain level of power. Should we all subscribe to the reasoning I see in this thread, you'd be seen as the Bushies for decades to come, regardless of how many Obamas you elect. I'm guessing you'd consider that unfair.

[cboy4]

20. That's ridiculous. Hezbollah is a militant organization with

strong ties to Iran, which would like to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

Yes, I did suggest that Israel would "illegally" attack another country.

You know, like they did in Iraq, taking out its nuclear program, like it did in Syria, taking out its North Korean-built nuclear program, and like it will continue to do when it sees a threat.

I predict they will destroy those Migs, with superior United States air power, the first chance they get .. especially if they fly an inch into Israeli air space.

That's reality Fedja. You may not like it, but Israel couldn't care less I'm sure.

[atreides1]

21. So Israel is a "Rogue Nation"

It will use it's military power to launch attacks against other sovereign states, just because it can!

Or was that a description of Saddam's Iraq?

[cboy4]

22. Why are you asking that in the form of a question? I'm sure you're

familiar with its defense policies.

I simply repeating them to people who think there's nothing explosive about allowing Lebanon, which was not so long ago heavily bombed by Israel, to acquire fighter aircraft.

It's ridiculous.

Lebanon needs 10 fighter jets like Israel needs more nuclear missiles.

[High Plains]

23. God forbid Lebanon take steps to defend itself. It must be attacked.

[cboy4]

24. Yea, they will be attacked.....it's why the West will hopefully

persuade them from taking such foolish steps as arming militant Hezbollah with war planes.

I would be shocked if Israel doesn't destroy all of those planes as fast as they take to the air.

[High Plains]

25. Israel is a blip in the history of the Middle East.

Isn't there some saying about those who live by the sword? It might be in Israel's long-term interests to seek peace with its neighbors instead of repeatedly attacking them.

[cboy4]

26. That's probably a question you should direct toward Israel.

I'm simply telling you how it is.

[Fedja]

30. Maybe we just expected too much of you

Your Human Rights Campaign avatar may be dated? Or maybe human rights outrage ends where the ocean starts...

[Fedja]

29. Seriously?

Would you care to cite a source on your claim that "Iran, which would like to wipe Israel off the face of the earth."

Disclaimer, if you're going to pull up a few quotes of one or two people, I'll hit you back with Bush quotes on how people and fish should coexist in peace and similar. Do try to provide state policy examples. Maybe invasions of foreign countries by Iran over the last couple of centuries, try to start there.

Iran hasn't done shit to anyone around them in a long long time, which makes Hezbollah's ties to Iran a treehugging plus. That's the reality. You may not find it convenient, but you really should look past the flashy headlines in dime-a-dozen 24/7 news spam.

[cboy4]

33. Stop being so obtuse....you don't have much credibility

blaming Israel for everything, while giving Iran and Hezbollah a seemingly complete free pass.

You have to be living on Pluto if you're so naive to not believe/admit how Iran feels about Tel Aviv.

"Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a birthday party are seriously mistaken," the official IRNA news agency quoted Ahmadinejad as having said.

"Today the reason for the Zionist regime's existence is questioned and this regime is on its way to annihilation."

:eyes:

[Fedja]

38. Who's blaming

I didn't blame anyone for anything yet, I'm just pointing out that you're basing your whole ME ideology on snippets like that. So Ahmadinejad hates Israel, whooptie do. Neither is he the main decision maker in Iran, nor does the opinion of one man matter.

"This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while."

"If you're asking me as the President, would I understand reality, I do."
--George W. Bush

Quotes are a funny thing, a most wonderful oratory tool when used right, and most disgusting when abused to support a poor argument.

[cboy4]

39. Apples and Oranges.

But then of course, you already know that.

Setting up a strawman.

You know that also.

Try making some friends with people who support other candidates and listen to what they have to help.

Once you're finished drowning your sorrow, try reaching out to other people's views/expertise about their home court.

[entanglement]

36. Israeli supremacists are just as unpleasant as white supremacists

And their supremacist, militarist, right-wing philosophy is just as bankrupt.

[Behind the Aegis]

27. Doubtful.

Israel will not see 10 MIGs a real threat. Syria has versions of them and they, at this point, are a "bigger threat" to Israel.

[cboy4]

32. Well I'll certainly yield to your expertise on this issue.

[Alamuti Lotus]

37. like they would even leave the hanger..

the proud Lebanese armed forces do not fire bombs or bullets at the Israeli invaders, they are only there to serve tea (and tear to pieces the occasional Palestinian refugee tent) Can tea be dropped from airplanes?--Maybe they'd be used after all... Moving on to the second main point, you are mistaken in conflating the gov't (Harari the Lesser) with Hizballah. I do happen to favour the latter (not as much lately), so I must emphasize the distinction.

[FarCenter]

6. Probably a way to show them off to other countries

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20081217/118911194.html

They would be looking for follow-on sales to other Middle Eastern countries.

[Nevernose]

7. They've really been trying to export military tech lately

There's been a lot of on-again, off-again aerospace development with India in the last decade, for instance.

[FarCenter]

9. I'd think that there would be a big market out there

Shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles, the Kornet anti-armor missile, anti-stealth radars, SA-400 long range anti-aircraft missiles, and anti-ship missiles and advanced torpedos should find ready buyers.

[Nevernose]

10. I was thinking about countries growing leary of the JSF

I was thinking about countries growing leery of the JSF. Italy, Australia, Turkey, the aforementioned India. Pakistan might be in the market soon. Then there's the Nordic nations. And God only knows what weird shit South America and Africa will purchase just to micro-adjust the balance of power...

[JVS]

8. How generous! It's a Festivus miracle!

[DUlover2909]

12. Merry Christmas Lebanon!

[Parmenion]

16. Lebanon might reject MIGs

Some Lebanese media sources are saying the Lebanese government will reject the gift of the MIGs due to "political pressure" from the West. The Lebanese Defense minister, Elias Murr, is very pro-American, but he worked out this deal with the Russians because he was just in Moscow recently.

With airplanes Lebanon could at least make a show of trying to stop the daily Israeli overflights through sovereign Lebanese air-space.

[ryanmuegge]

19. They're trying to raise oil prices.

[ohio2007]

35. World Bank: Russia may need help if oil falls more

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D955PMC80&show_article=1

Putin can't afford the great white Russian fleet.

http://russiatoday.com/news/news/34983
but
alas ;)
the dream was a fleeting one


:)

[ACTION BASTARD]

31. The Israelies are not impressed with 10 used Migs

Clearly this is Russia pushing hardware on Lebanon as sweet, sweet candy. Russia wants $$$

[ohio2007]

34. bet they end up in France

or in the Nevada desert. ten used birds does not an airforce make.