Ohio Christian school tells student to skip prom

[Tab]

Source: Associated Press

FINDLAY, Ohio – A student at a fundamentalist Baptist school that forbids dancing, rock music, hand-holding and kissing will be suspended if he takes his girlfriend to her public high school prom, his principal said.

Despite the warning, 17-year-old Tyler Frost, who has never been to a dance before, said he plans to attend Findlay High School's prom Saturday.

Frost, a senior at Heritage Christian School in northwest Ohio, agreed to the school's rules when he signed a statement of cooperation at the beginning of the year, principal Tim England said.

The teen, who is scheduled to receive his diploma May 24, would be suspended from classes and receive an "incomplete" on remaining assignments, England said. Frost also would not be permitted to attend graduation but would get a diploma once he completes final exams. If Frost is involved with alcohol or sex at the prom, he will be expelled, England said.

Frost's stepfather Stephan Johnson said the school's rules should not apply outside the classroom.

"He deserves to wear that cap and gown," Johnson said.
...
The handbook for the 84-student Christian school says rock music "is part of the counterculture which seeks to implant seeds of rebellion in young people's hearts and minds.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090508/ap_on_re_us/us_school_dance_flap

---

This is SOOO 1950's.

[PassingFair]

1. To quote other Christians I've seen here....

"It's a PRIVATE school, if he or his
parents don't like the rules, they
shouldn't have sent him there."

Period.

:crazy:

[SacredCow]

5. Controlling what goes on in their life OUTSIDE of school...

crosses a pretty glaring line. If the kid's parents are OK with letting him dance to the devil music on his own time, then that's pretty much the end of the story.

I attended a Fundie private school for 3 years. They tried a couple of times to stick their noses into private family matters and it did NOT go over well. First, they announced that all students were forbidden to go to any Mardi Gras functions (in south Louisiana, that's just crazy- you can't get away from it!). Second, they found out a student was on birth control pills (for legitimate hormone reasons) and they threatened to expel her (backed down when the girl's lawyer-dad threatened to give them serious pwnage).

[HowHasItComeToThis]

36. THE CHRISTIAN SCHOOL ARE A CANCER

[Igel]

65. I've been observing one for the last week.

"Cancer" is an overstatement, by far.

I've been observing chemistry classes in one for a while. It's not Baptist, but does require Bible class, Chapel, and teaches creationism.

I'd note that creationism doesn't play a big role in chemistry class, but even in biology the teachers and students are told that evolution will be taught, as well.

My atheist wife rather likes the school, from what I've said about it. It's academically rigorous and the teachers monitor behavior as well as academics. I've seen teachers only get really upset at students a couple of times--once when a student was copying (and the choice was to erase the copied part and turn in the work as amended or report to the dean), the other times were when students failed to be tolerant and supportive of each other.

A few days ago the class schedule was altered so that lunch was later than usual, and a student complained--how could he do work when he was hungry? The teacher lectured him about how many people routinely went hungry and did much harder work, and he'd better get his attitude on right. "But this is America!" "What, we don't have poor people or hungry people in America? I think I know what your required community service will be next year."

The result is a school where if there are deeply engrained cliques and students that are bullied and shunned I can't find them.

And yes, they have learning disabled kids, specialists for dealing with them, and alternative testing procedures. (I haven't seen any that are physically disabled, but the school's set up for them.)

[paulsby]

37. this has nothing to do with my religion (christian or otherwise)

it has to do with he understood the rules, and he signed the contract.

the school may have a ridiculous policy imo but that's irrelevant.

he signed on to their moral code, and they are enforcing it.

they have the right to do what they are doing, as idiotic as it is.

period :)

[appal_jack]

44. contracts signed by minors are not enforceable

Contracts signed by minors are not worth the paper on which they are printed.

-app

[paulsby]

45. the PARENTS sign on for the kid

that's how it works at private school.

i went to one. a quaker school fwiw (quakers are pacifists, support gender equality etc.)

it's really this simple.

on a case law basis, as long as the school was reasonably clear about the rules from the outset, they are on solid ground.

and since they are telling the kid BEFORE the prom the rules, they are even solider.

sorry, i may think their rules and traditions are silly, but they have EVERY right to live under them, and to enforce their contract with their student body.

period

[appal_jack]

49. ...

"Frost, a senior at Heritage Christian School in northwest Ohio, agreed to the school's rules when he signed a statement of cooperation at the beginning of the year, principal Tim England said.'

italics mine. -app

[paulsby]

51. great but that doesn't mean the parents ALSO didn't sign it

iow, it's partial information.

[Igel]

66. The school's website says that students grades 7-12 sign them.

But the *parents* of students K-12 also sign them. http://www.heritagefindlay.org/index.cfm?i=6416&mid=1000&id=199128

This isn't a defense of the school. Just saying that you have to find another point to attack--the one you picked, your friend Google would have told you, isn't available.

[Teaser]

2. The stupid is strong in that place

.

[Hepburn]

3. Ohio is a great place....

...to be from.

Signed,

Native Ohioan Hepburn

[HughBeaumont]

8. Fundie-Lay is in the heart of NW Ohio, ridiculously red and backwoods.

Save Toledo, of course.

NE Ohio isn't bad when you sift through all of the "angry white-man" grizzled freeps shitting it up.

[kestrel91316]

22. That's funny. My BIL's mom is in Toledo and she is the closest thing

to a fundie in our family.

[LeftyMom]

63. Tell me about it. The kid has family in Bluffton and Lima.

Bluffton, ffs. :scared: It makes Findlay look downright cosmopolitan.

[bulloney]

77. Findlay was the topic of an AP report last fall on the alleged racism many showed toward Obama.

Personally, I don't think they were against Obama because of race. Findlay/Hancock County is one of the most Republican areas in Ohio. I don't know if a Democrat has held an elected countywide office in the past 50 years or so. I think the majority of people there will just look for an excuse to dislike any Democrat. Conversely, if you took an opossum, gave it a name like "Fred Smith" and put it on the ballot for Republican county commissioner, the opossum would win in a landslide.

[Hepburn]

78. I am a native of the Akron-Canton area....

...and the last time I went back, there were a ton of fundies ~~ and the white ones blamed all the problems on the blacks.

I moved from that area of Ohio in the 1960s ~~ nothing has changed except the factories are more covered with rust!

:hi:

[madmom]

9. To finish the phrase.. Ohio a great place to be from..far away from. I am

not a native, but have lived here for about 40 years. Findley is not too far away, this is the mindset of a lot of people in NW OHIO. We dems have our work cut out for us here, but we are trying! I wish Arizona would turn blue! I want to retire there.

[du_grad]

68. I have lived in Toledo for 60 years

Please realize that Lucas Co. went 64+% for Obama.

http://www.co.lucas.oh.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1294&DL=1

Toledo, the county seat, is a heavily Democratic city and one of the few cities that voted for Carter in 1980. Findlay is "Flag City" and much more conservative politically than Toledo is. The farming communities outside of Toledo are very very red. Please don't lump Toledoans into this group of religious fundamentalists. Yes, there are fundamentalists here, but this is NOT the character of the city as a whole.

http://www.smartvoter.org/2008/11/04/oh/hnc/ballot.html#president - shockingly, Obama beat McCain in Hancock Co. (Findlay, OH is in Hancock Co.) in the 2008 election.

Bluffton, OH is home to a small Mennonite college, BTW. Mennonite does NOT equal Baptist.

There are various groups of Baptists, each with their own rules. I don't know what to think about this kid and the school rules. On the one hand he signed on to follow their rules. On the other hand, do these rules apply outside of school? Perhaps a lawsuit will ultimately decide.

[madmom]

73. I just know that where I live, if you are a dem, you are in the very small

minority.In the little burg I live in I can count the dems on one hand, seriously.People tried to push me out of scouting because I wrote a LTTE in favor of then Pres. Clinton. I am looked down upon by my SO's family because I don't waste my time going to church, but I'll stack my morals up to theirs any day and have told them as much. Toledo might be an ok place in this pocket of red, but I prefer nature to cities and around these parts it ain't gonna happen!
I can understand following school rules, but what he does outside of school, is for him and his parents to decide. It would be the same as my public school telling my kids they can't go to bible school or whatever. It amounts to..it's none of their business.

[du_grad]

86. I'm a city gal

We tried living in a small town outside of Toledo for nine years. I missed the city and will never go back. I would find this type of small town attitude totally intolerable, although I do realize it exists out in the sea of red farmland that makes up the majority of Ohio. A friend of mine lives in a small town in SW Ohio. He worked for the Obama campaign and was in the definite minority down there. He was extremely nervous about Obama's chances of winning the election, as townies taunted and insulted him throughout much of the campaign. I assured him that there were lots of votes up here to balance out the Repug smugness.

Hang in there. I don't know how you stand it.

[Ian David]

4. I once met a group of kids from one of those Baptist groups that forbid dancing.

By "kids" I mean they were between 18 and 20 or something.

They were on a Carnival Cruise ship, and they had an adult chaperone with them the whole time.

But during the cruise, the rules were "relaxed" and they were allowed to dance in the ship's disco.

Those kids were some very good dancers.

They were practicing SOMEWHERE.

And Oh, I got to slow dance with this beautiful, big-boned Midwestern Baptist girl who was double my weight and a foot taller than me... I was happy. :)

[K8-EEE]

6. EVERYBODY GET FOOTLOOSE! n/t

[madrchsod]

12. you forgot the youtube video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMB8vv18ehE

[Lorien]

14. A comment on the video says a remake is in the works

sad that it's still timely, eh?

[ejpoeta]

19. i heard zac ephrom was supposed to play kevin bacon's part but for some reason

decided to not do it.

[SacredCow]

7. Pretty ballsy declarations from the school....

How would they even know if he goes? Are they going to have spies there?

"If Frost is involved with alcohol or sex at the prom, he will be expelled, England said..."

What would happen if he smoked a crack pipe and had GAY sex? Tar and Feathering? :rofl:

[jmowreader]

61. You're not supposed to have sex AT the prom...

You're supposed to have a friend whose parents aren't home that weekend, and you screw on their couch. Fundies. Sheesh. Don't they know ANYTHING?

[Hepburn]

79. Submarine races???

:evilgrin:

[The Stranger]

10. Try 1590's.

[KansDem]

11. Man, go for it!

You only go around once in life. Do all the "dancing...hand-holding and kissing" you can! I wish I did!

Oh, the "rock music" is optional. I preferred the music of Chet Baker and Gerry Mulligan when I was in high school...

[immoderate]

46. I took my girlfriend to her prom.

The entertainment was the Shirells. As soon as they were done, we took off to see Dizzy Gillespie at the Metropole. Then to the beach. What a great memory.

--imm

[KansDem]

58. !

:thumbsup:

[Lorien]

13. Wow. Even the Amish are far less uptight than Baptists

at least they allow their kids Rumspringa: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5455572

The Baptists truly do live in a fantasy land where human nature is denied completely.

[Hepburn]

80. Well, that is why Baptists do not have sex standing up...

...someone might think they are dancing!

:evilgrin:

[Lorien]

83. ...

:rofl:

[Downwinder]

15. How can he not be involved with sex. He was born with it. n/t

[NOW tense]

16. I think I have seen this movie before

Footloose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaaYU-lZ3ac

[jimnasium]

17. Fuck that place, Tyler!!! It's no sin to have a good time!

Personally, I'm hoping he not only goes to the prom...

I'm hoping he also gets a blowjob while shotgunning a 6-pack!

Fuck that place - fundie child-molesting asshats!

Shit.... even Jesus got drunk. He turned water into WINE, not lemonade...

[yellowcanine]

18. Why non fundies would subject their kids to a fundy "education" I will never know.

Maybe they figure it will toughen them up mentally.

[jakefrep]

20. Because...

..even some non-fundies are dumb enough to believe the "GAWD HAS BEEN KICKED OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOL!" claptrap.

[Igel]

67. For a bunch of reasons.

Oddly, a lot of religious schools enforce tolerance and behavioral rules better than public schools. This doesn't just include wanting to keep kids away from pregnancy and drugs, but that's part of it.

For example, the guff I got in public schools would be grounds for dismissal in many religious schools. The school I'm observing has no identifiable group of "cool students". The management policies make it nearly impossible--some are cooler than others, but nobody's excluded from anything.

A lot of religious schools have higher educational achievement levels than public schools. The one I'm observing had 96% of their seniors go to 4-year colleges last year, and now they're working on (1) 98% and (2) increasing the quality of the colleges they go to. This, without altering their admissions requirements: 25% of the students admitted have to be outside of the top 15 percentiles, and in most years 20% or so have "deficiencies" to be made up. This is their "diversity"; racially it's not very diverse, but every class has a well-integrated non-white face. (Then again, I've never seen so many blond/blue-eyed people in one place.)

A lot of the students' parents are "non-fundies." Yet many of them shell out $15k/year for their kid's education, plus field trips. (For example, they recently had a science field trip to the Amazon rain forest to impress upon their students (1) biodiversity and the importance of the rain forest as well as (2) cultural sensitivity.)

[Hepburn]

81. No way would I pay for a private school in Calif....

...particularly a religious one.

They are EXEMPT from the standards which the public schools enforce re: education and credenitals for staff and teachers. One need not even have a HS diploma to teach at a private school in Calif.

Shell out money for that...so my kid could be Bible brain-washed? No way in hell.

JMHO

[Adsos Letter]

87. Well said, and accurate in many more cases than many here understand...

both of my daughters went to a private religious school, and their experience was exactly as you stated. They are both examples of kind, non-judgemental (as much as anyone is) human beings. The older one has just finished her third year of Medical School, in which she has honored ALL of her classes and specialty rotations; the younger one has just been awarded a Presidential Scholarship to a liberal arts college, worth about $30,000 per year, and they only awarded one this year.

Those Christian schools that DO provide a non-judgemental, forward-looking approach to education just don't seem to get the exposure that other types do.

[Doremus]

72. In our culturally diverse school district they do it because they're racist.

The public schools are too "undisciplined" and "unruly," euphemisms for 'If I send my daughter to that school a black kid is going to knock her up," and "my son will have to carry hardware to survive." A father actually told me that once.

These declarations are often uttered by people who have never set foot in the schools. Mostly the bigots ended up moving in search of a nonexistent white utopia or homeschooling because, while they love their children, they don't love them *that* much to pony up the exorbitant tuition.

[Swede Atlanta]

21. That is the trade-off

If you attend a private school, especially one with religious affiliation, and they mandate as a condition for attendance and graduation, agreement to a set of rules, the rules control. The only time that would not be allowed is if the rules violated a constitutional right. There is no constitutional right to go to a dance.

I have to agree with the school in this case based on the facts of this case. That said I think the school's beliefs are outdated and ridiculous but those are their beliefs or rules.

[hedgehog]

23. Their school, their rules.

[mmarsh]

28. Not so sure about that.

Dancing is an art form, and therefore would be covered under the 1st Amendments Freedom of Expression. I think the real legal question is does the school have the right to interfere in a persons private life, especially since the school is not in any way associated with the dance.

Its their school its their rules, but only what goes on under their roof.

[paulsby]

40. the school is not a GOVERNMENT agency

the school can limit all sorts of freedom of expression, especially if those limitations were made clear UPON entry to the school.

i can get into the case law nuances if you want, but for example:

if i am working for a private employer i absolutely have the 1st amendment right to start a blog saying my employer is an asshole.

but they can fire me for it. even though i am expressing my first amendment rights.

grok it?

[paulsby]

39. i 100% agree

fwiw, i attended a quaker school.
i am 100% NOT a quaker. but i was subject to their rules,and that's that, and unlike the baptist school, i didn't actually sign a contract, as this kid apparently did. as long as they made clear WHEN he signed on, that the rules applied on and off campus, then he signed on, he knows the rules, the school has the right.

[onehandle]

24. This is SOOO not LBN. nt

[Old Hob]

25. "Rock music ...seeks to implant seeds of rebellion in young people's hearts and minds."

Yes! All hail rock and roll!!!

[MineralMan]

26. And the fundamentalcase sect of Baptists wonders

why their children abandon church as soon as they are out of the house. Numbers, according to Barna, approach 80%.

And how is it that fundamentalcase kids wind up knocked up. Is doing the horizontal bop not in their rules?

Buncha morons!

[maseman]

27. My wife grew up in the most Amish/Mennonite County in the US

and her school had a HS prom. Yes it was strict like having a distance between kids dancing and stuff, no after party, etc. but they had a dance from Christ's sake.

[Unca Jim]

29. DUPE

Whoops!

[SkyDaddy7]

30. The kid must do as told or leave...

I do not feel for him at all!! If your parents are literally that stupid to send their child to a Taliban like school then tough!

[GNKitten]

69. Re:The kid must do as told or leave...

If you have been to parts of Ohio, unfortunately some of religious based schools are the only ones where you are going to get a decent education. 6th grade level at the one I attended was the level a 12th grade public school had, if not freshman or sophmore year of college.

[SkyDaddy7]

71. Can't be any worse than Georgia...

Lets not skip the well known fact that most of the parents who send their kids to these schools do so for "religious" reasons...Like not having their child exposed to real science! So, I would argue that their education "may" be better in some areas/subjects but overall is it really better? If you want your child to get a "religious" education then your child needs to walk the walk!

[madmom]

88. My niece went to a religious based school in Ohio, she can't tell time or

count money very well, but she sure can quote the bible! Oh and BTW, she is a 36 year old biker chic now.Drugs, alcohol, and 3 kids, 3 different fathers and living with yet a different one. But her mother and grandmother insisted she be sent to this "excellent" school.Her mother is the same way went to same school. My kids on the other hand both went to public school and are now both in college. Go figure!

[Unca Jim]

31. Well...

if your local public schools blow your church's school may be the only viable option to get your kid a decent education at a reasonable price.

If you don't agree with their doctrine or rules, you still have to play along when you're there.

Of course the school shouldn't be sticking their noses into anything happening outside the school either way.

The Principal is making a huge mistake. He'll be loved by the idiots who support his policies, but he'll be remembered for the trouble he caused when the lawsuit comes.

[paulsby]

41. there will be no lawsuit

as long as the conditions were made clear UPON entry, the lawsuit would be a huge loser.

[LeftHander]

32. Best thing to happen to him is to get suspended from that.....

Religious extremist training facility,

[xchrom]

33. sounds like he wants out of there -- don't blame him. nt

[Tab]

34. I agree that they can mandate whatever they want or not want

to happen at THEIR school. They can have a dress code. They could require students not talk to each other, not look at each other, whatever.

But this isn't AT their school. This is a student engaging in an activity - that is perfectly legal - in their spare time, and not on school property.

If it became known that he was at home and masturbated in his bedroom, would that get him kicked out?

I'd say that once you're off school property, and not wearing anything that demonstrates affiliation to the school, you're not representing the school, and you're just doing your own thing.

I think he should go and DARE them to kick him out.

[paulsby]

42. you can say that all you want

but that doesn't mean the school is not within their rights.

you may not LIKE it, but the school CAN expel a kid for what he does off campus.

here's an obvious example. if the kid raped somebody off campus, could the school expel him?

of course.

schools can set codes of conduct (private schools) that apply OFF campus.

period.

my school certainly did.

i went to a quaker school . quakers are pretty progressive, pacifist also.

Note: i am not a pacifist.

and they could AND DID regulate off campus behavior.

you are mistaken if you believe that a private school cannot punish a kid for off campus behavior.

they are NOT a govt. agency (or school) and they can set their codes of conduct.

period.

[nichomachus]

53. So going to a prom is the moral equivalent of rape? Yikes!

That has to qualify for one of the most bizarre comparisons I've seen on DU

[paulsby]

54. no. try some reading comphrehension

the issue is not whether they are moral equivalents.

the point is that they are OFF CAMPUS conduct.

you may not understand that a private school can and does set rules for off campus behavior.

and that they can take action against students for violating same.

do i really need to explain the case law to you?

[nichomachus]

55. Better you try a course in logic

Rape is a crime -- going to a prom is not

[paulsby]

64. better you try

the issue wasn't crime vs. non-crime. the issue (read the post i responded to) what that that poster criticized the school for punishing OFF CAMPUS conduct.

here's a hint. private schools can and do, and should be able to , punish students for all sorts of off campus behaviors, especially when they give prior warnings as to such behavior being prohibited and/or make it clear upon admission.

public schools are much more limited, as they should be.

if rape is too extreme an example, choose another.

private schools have the right to set codes of conduct for OFF campus activity.

you may disagree that they SHOULD be able to.

but is clear that they legally can. and imo that's the way it should be.

[Aethertek]

35. Millennia Passes

6000 years or so of Recorded history & we still have to deal with the ramifications of these ignorant superstitions.
So I wonder how many more millennia it will take for the humans to advance beyond teh stupid?

[4lbs]

38. This is what after-prom parties are for.

When I went to my prom back in 1987, while not anywhere as strict as this one, my high school had some "standards".

So, about 20 of us couples got together and had our own after-prom party, each chipping in $10 per couple.

We left the regular prom at midnight and went to the after-prom location and partied it up from 1:00am to 5:00am, at which point we all went for breakfast.

[mbperrin]

43. You know why Baptists don't have sex standing up?

Someone might think they're dancing!

Hey, I'm entitled to the joke - I spent 1000's of hours growing up in an "independent" Baptist church.

Thank gawd I escaped 40 years ago and never goin' back!!!!

[CoffeeCat]

47. I have one thing to say...

Did we learn nothing from the movie "Footloose"????

:rofl:

OMG...it's hard to believe that people like this EXIST!

[marshall]

48. Did the parents not understand the contract they signed?

Maybe they can take Pelosi's lead and just plead ignorance.

[nichomachus]

50. This is why Christians are opposed to sex

They're afraid it will lead to dancing . . .

[tridim]

52. Why not ban eating, it makes as much sense as the other activities they've banned.

Telling teenagers that holding hands is bad is pure evil IMO, it's denying human nature. Stuff like that can ruin lives.

[GNKitten]

70. Re: Why not ban eating, it makes as much sense as the other activities they've banned.

I know there's a religious based college campus somewhere in the US that did have a 36-inch rule between the opposite sex

[noiretextatique]

56. the principal signed off on a form so the kid could go to the prom

if going to the prom is such a violation of the rules, why did the principal sign the form?

[LibertyLover]

57. OK, so the kid's principal signed a permission slip for him to

attend the prom at his girl friend's public school but is telling him he can't attend or there will be negative consequences. That just doesn't make sense. Either you sign something that waives the rules or you don't sign. The kid may have signed the statement of co-operation, but by signing the permission slip his principal waived his compliance with them. To say otherwise is equally disingenuous.

[Stellabella]

59. I once knew one of the kids from that kind of religion.

They couldn't play cards, watch movies, dance. So I asked what they did.

"We have sex, of course," she said.

[mitchum]

60. They fear so many outside influences because their faith in their god is very shaky

[superconnected]

62. I do not believe that principal has no vices. Infact I figure they're so wierd I can't imagne them.

"The handbook for the 84-student Christian school says rock music "is part of the counterculture which seeks to implant seeds of rebellion in young people's hearts and minds."

Sounds like the kids already rebelling without rock music.

Seriously, I'm afraid of what goes on in the personal lives of anal retentives like this. It can't be healthy.

[Honeycombe8]

74. Why is this news? This happens all the time. You wanna dance? Don't go to a private holy roly

school. If you do, you are agreeing to abide by their standards.

I dont see any news in this.

[No Elephants]

75. What a coincidence. The Taliban says the exact same thing about our music Rebellion against what?.

Lawrence Welk Show re-runs?

[sarcasmo]

76. Footloose still Alive and well. Why are Religious nuts so nuts?

[davidinalameda]

82. like these rules just came out of nowhere

the kid and his parents knew what would happen

sorry don't feel bad for him

[carlyhippy]

84. what is this? Footloose?! n/t

[NoodleyAppendage]

85. Love the Christofascist manual quote about rock music.

"(rock music) seeks to implant seeds of rebellion in young people's hearts and minds."

And, how is this different from fundamentalism "seeks to implant the seeds of conformity, unquestioning idiocy, and fascism in young people's hearts and minds"?

J